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SVD to Super Formula?


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:08

Vandoorne locks down Super Formula test. Seems that's where McLaren want him for the time being.

 

 

 

Esp interesting, imho, was this bit.

 

 

“It is a good car, definitely. It is at least as quick as GP2 or maybe even quicker,” he said.

“I think Super Formula are really quick. They don't have that much horsepower but the cornering speeds are very impressive – they are for sure quicker than F1 cars nowadays.

 



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#2 mistareno

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:16

I assume he means the cornering speeds are quicker.
Still paints F1 in a pretty dim light if true.

#3 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:16

They are for sure faster than McLaren cars nowadays.



#4 Nonesuch

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:30

Speaking of which: don't miss the upcoming season finale at Suzuka!

 

Earlier this year the Super Formula series was also at Suzuka, where both during the race and qualifying the fastest laps were faster than the Manor F1 cars. These cars are quick indeed. :up:

 

I've heard Vandoorne provide the commentary on the Belgian broadcast a few times, and he seems like a nice enough guy. His record in racing speaks for itself. If he goes to Japan I'm sure he'll enjoy the racing there, even if the calender isn't particularly long. André Lotterer might give him a few hints about combining it with another racing job, as he seems to do quite well for himself both in the WEC and Super Formula.

 


Edited by Nonesuch, 05 November 2015 - 15:31.


#5 ANF

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:46



Looks like Lotterer gained 0.3 seconds on Alonso through the esses in this comparison (from start of T4 apex kerb to start of T7 apex kerb).



#6 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 16:34

Lighter chassis and more efficient aero, I would think. Don't recall if the SF14 uses ground effects.



#7 JHSingo

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:01

Most definitely F1's loss if that's what he does do next year.

 

At least we can look forward to Palmer, Maldonado, Gutierrez, Nasr, Ericsson and co battling it out in F1 in the meantime. :rolleyes:



#8 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:15

Not to mention far better tyres. 



#9 Kev00

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:22

It's pretty pathetic. Boullier said at the start of the season he wanted vandoorne to 'boss' GP2, which he did. And for what? A super formula drive. I guess he will also be reserve driver, a role which he held in 2014 anyway. I was a vandoorne fan because i was a mclaren fan. Now i am just a vandoorne fan.

#10 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:23

Good, you do not want to join the dark side and be a fan of McLaren. 



#11 WhiteSGPlayer

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:25

Most definitely F1's loss if that's what he does do next year.

 

At least we can look forward to Palmer, Maldonado, Gutierrez, Nasr, Ericsson and co battling it out in F1 in the meantime. :rolleyes:

 

However, we can look forward to Vandoorne, Lotterer, Nakajima, Oliveira, Rossiter, Kobayashi and other Japanese stars battling it out in Super Formula :D



#12 HistoryFan

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:10

would like to see him there. Any more drivers at the rookie test?



#13 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:13

It's pretty pathetic. Boullier said at the start of the season he wanted vandoorne to 'boss' GP2, which he did. And for what? A super formula drive. I guess he will also be reserve driver, a role which he held in 2014 anyway. I was a vandoorne fan because i was a mclaren fan. Now i am just a vandoorne fan.

 

Well the F1 ladder is acknowledged by many to be broken, the latest being David Coulthard: http://www.motorspor...-coulthard/?s=1

 

Meanwhile there's a good chance that the 2016 Indycar grid will have the last 5 Lights champions on it...



#14 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:17

Well the F1 ladder is acknowledged by many to be broken, the latest being David Coulthard: http://www.motorspor...-coulthard/?s=1

 

Meanwhile there's a good chance that the 2016 Indycar grid will have the last 5 Lights champions on it...

Thats really the only thing I appreciate about Red Bull. Without them the chances for talented drivers to enter F1 is almost down to zero......



#15 muramasa

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:19

Lighter chassis and more efficient aero, I would think. Don't recall if the SF14 uses ground effects.

 

SF14 has sealed diffuser, sort of "physical blown diffuser".

 

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tyre supplier will change from Bridgestone to Yokohama next year btw

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#16 BRG

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:31

So for Stoffel, it is 'File under "Forget"'



#17 Myrvold

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:47

Well the F1 ladder is acknowledged by many to be broken, the latest being David Coulthard: http://www.motorspor...-coulthard/?s=1

 

Meanwhile there's a good chance that the 2016 Indycar grid will have the last 5 Lights champions on it...

 

Everything there points to the problem being in F1, not the ladder though. When a person who wins the "second step" cannot move up, it's not the fault of the "second step" is it?



#18 Risil

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:56

Is it too late for Honda to dump Sato and parachute Vandoorne into Indycar as "their" driver?

 

But obviously nothing is going to happen until we find out which of Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Sauber, Manor, Force India and Lotus will be returning next year, as McLaren are one of the teams that will probably run a third car should the grid thin out too much.


Edited by Risil, 05 November 2015 - 19:00.


#19 ANF

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 19:38

At least it's good to know that (a) Vandoorne has accumulated enough points to be granted an F1 superlicence and (b) there was nothing to the Button Contract Renewal story.



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#20 Juan Kerr

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 20:00

I bet those sneaky Honda bosses are planning some secret underground F1 tests over there in Japan ;)



#21 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 20:02

Everything there points to the problem being in F1, not the ladder though. When a person who wins the "second step" cannot move up, it's not the fault of the "second step" is it?

 

You think GP2 would cost as much if it wasn't directly attached to F1?


Edited by Prost1997T, 05 November 2015 - 20:02.


#22 KingTiger

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 20:14

Wow that diffuser is huge. Looks even larger than group C cars.
I don't think Stoffel has anything to complain about. McLaren are not going to drop their world champs for him, and they wouldn't let him go to a potential rival like Enstone. The only team he could've gone to is Manor, but I guess McLaren didn't think it'd be worth it to pay them for the seat.

#23 Kev00

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 21:36

Wow that diffuser is huge. Looks even larger than group C cars.
I don't think Stoffel has anything to complain about. McLaren are not going to drop their world champs for him, and they wouldn't let him go to a potential rival like Enstone. The only team he could've gone to is Manor, but I guess McLaren didn't think it'd be worth it to pay them for the seat.

Why does he not have anything to complain about? What exactly is the plan for him? As you say they dont want to replace their current drivers and they dont want him him to go to another team, but he certainly has the calibre to be in f1 and and the potential to be a champion.

#24 l8apex

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 22:23

This certainly seems better than taking a season off and only doing sim work.



#25 Volcano70

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 22:29

Always thought it should've happened since Button got renewed, and it might be happening!

Also, maybe this could become the 2016 SF thread?

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#26 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 22:46

 

 

Corner speed is faster than F1, for sure.  It's like it's in fast forward!   :eek:  Straight line is not as strong, of course.

 

F1 cars used to corner in fast forward like that...  :rolleyes:



#27 Myrvold

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 23:41

You think GP2 would cost as much if it wasn't directly attached to F1?

 

While GP2 costs might be an issue for young drivers, it's not like winning GP2, or major success there is an guarantee for an F1 drive? Going from GP2 to F1 the last three years is the following drivers.

  • Jules Bianchi
  • Max Chilton
  • Marcus Ericsson
  • Esteban Gutierrez
  • Felipe Nasr
  • Charles Pic
  • Alexander Rossi
  • Giedo van Der Garde

Of those drivers, the best overall position was 3rd (Rossi might beat that this year) and the most wins pr season on average is Esteban Gutierrez, with 4 wins on 2 season (2 wins pr. season in average), in seasons with 20-24 races.

 

My point being, that even if GP2 is good, there isn't anything that says that success there will  get you to F1. Even if GP2 had been free, it wouldn't been guaranteed. The problem isn't GP2, the problem is F1.



#28 EvilPhil II

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 23:48

Im guessing they are putting him in there because of Super Licence points requirements... and that the GP2 champion can not defend his crown. 



#29 hittheapex

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 02:43

Not to mention far better tyres. 

:up: I think it's embarrassing that there is an open wheeled formula that is faster through the same corners than an F1 car. Some of that is coming from the diffuser on the Super Formula cars, but the gap in tyre performance might be fixed. It depends on what Pirelli is capable of and if Bernie still wants tyres that drop off before the end of some Meat Loaf songs.



#30 Rurouni

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 04:01

Personally, because I still want to see a proper battle between Alonso vs Button, I don't mind this move. It's better than just being a test/3rd driver like Mag did. Having said that, It's a shame that we can't see him in F1. I really want to see what he can do in F1, but not at the expense of either Alonso and Button.



#31 Jimisgod

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 05:50

It's pretty pathetic. Boullier said at the start of the season he wanted vandoorne to 'boss' GP2, which he did. And for what? A super formula drive. I guess he will also be reserve driver, a role which he held in 2014 anyway. I was a vandoorne fan because i was a mclaren fan. Now i am just a vandoorne fan.

 

Best case scenario is he'll get a McLaren GP2 drive in 2017. :evil:



#32 rjsports

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:39

Im guessing they are putting him in there because of Super Licence points requirements... and that the GP2 champion can not defend his crown. 

 

He already has enough points. He finished second in FR3.5 in 2013, second in GP2 in 2014 and won this years GP2 title. He's got double the amount of points he needs...



#33 noikeee

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:00

:up: I think it's embarrassing that there is an open wheeled formula that is faster through the same corners than an F1 car. Some of that is coming from the diffuser on the Super Formula cars, but the gap in tyre performance might be fixed. It depends on what Pirelli is capable of and if Bernie still wants tyres that drop off before the end of some Meat Loaf songs.

Yeah I think this is more about tyres than aerodynamics, even if that diffuser in the SF car is impressive. Shows what a total farce these tyre compounds are, really.



#34 hittheapex

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:28

Yeah I think this is more about tyres than aerodynamics, even if that diffuser in the SF car is impressive. Shows what a total farce these tyre compounds are, really.

I can't think of a single redeeming feature Pirelli has over another supplier for anybody other than the commercial rights holders, who enjoy the sponsorship cash that Pirelli brings.



#35 Imateria

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 12:06

Yeah I think this is more about tyres than aerodynamics, even if that diffuser in the SF car is impressive. Shows what a total farce these tyre compounds are, really.

No this is almost certainly more about aero than tyres, the '14 regs really clipped F1's wings in the downforce department.



#36 ANF

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:04



Looks like Lotterer gained 0.3 seconds on Alonso through the esses in this comparison (from start of T4 apex kerb to start of T7 apex kerb).



And here it looks like Lotterer lost 0.5 seconds to Webber.



#37 hittheapex

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:39



And here it looks like Lotterer lost 0.5 seconds to Webber.

Apples with oranges. The original comparison was with a 2014 car, there you have a 2013 car that was lighter and also had different tyres and aero regulations.



#38 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:03

No opinion on the SVD issue, but I must say, the rear aero on those SF cars is very cool. I think the cars would look better if they went for snorkel turbo inlets on the rear bodywork rather than the intake scoop above the head, more like a CART car than F1. I also think the mini-shark fin looks silly, but other than that they are very cool machines and obviously very quick.



#39 ANF

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 19:56

Apples with oranges. The original comparison was with a 2014 car, there you have a 2013 car that was lighter and also had different tyres and aero regulations.

Absolutely. And I think the Red Bull was outstanding through the esses in 2013. Both cars did however run on tyres by Pirelli – and the margin between Webber and Lotterer was bigger than the one between Lotterer and Alonso. I'm just trying to put the Super Formula cornering speeds in perspective.

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#40 hittheapex

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 01:59

Absolutely. And I think the Red Bull was outstanding through the esses in 2013. Both cars did however run on tyres by Pirelli – and the margin between Webber and Lotterer was bigger than the one between Lotterer and Alonso. I'm just trying to put the Super Formula cornering speeds in perspective.

Oh right. I meant different compounds rather than tyres, too. Red Bull made Suzuka it's own from 2009-2013, only Button spoiling their party in 2011.



#41 Spillage

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:16

It's sad how McLaren treat their young drivers. Perez, Magnussen, now Vandoorne... it's a masterclass in acquiring young talent, then wasting it.

#42 BRG

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 19:18

Not at all like Red Bull's savage treatment of their youngsters then?  If you do well in a Toro Rosso, you will still probably get dumped.  

 

Or Ferrari, just stringing them along and never giving any of them a chance?



#43 Fisico54

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 18:15

Not at all like Red Bull's savage treatment of their youngsters then? If you do well in a Toro Rosso, you will still probably get dumped.

Or Ferrari, just stringing them along and never giving any of them a chance?

Name 1 Ferrari young driver who can get anywhere near the pre F1 accomplishments of Vandoorne, Magnussen or Perez? Bianchi is the only 1 and he was provided with a f1 seat and impressed so was moving up the grid.

Red Bull have a cutthroat programme but if you succeed in the lower formulas you get into toro Rosso and if you do succeed there you get a Red Bull seat - Vettel, Kvyat. Do they possibly discard some drivers harshly, possibly but it's an example of how a programme should work

#44 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 18:31

And pretty much anyone I can think of would be *nowhere* without those programs. 



#45 BRG

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 18:32

The point is that Mclaren are no better and no worse than the others.  And frankly, if a youngster gets into one of these schemes, he should thank his lucky stars and be grateful for anything that comes his way.  Ask all the other talented lads who never even got a sniff of the big time.



#46 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 19:23

It's sad how McLaren treat their young drivers. Perez, Magnussen, now Vandoorne... it's a masterclass in acquiring young talent, then wasting it.

Nonsense. Perez and Magnussen were given a race seat at McLaren, and weren't fast enough. 



#47 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 19:29

It's sad how McLaren treat their young drivers. Perez, Magnussen, now Vandoorne... it's a masterclass in acquiring young talent, then wasting it.

 
Pérez and Magnussen both had a full season at McLaren. A 12 month 'see if you can make it work' probation period is surprisingly long for such a competitive business.

 

They failed to prove themselves. A shame for them personally, but hardly the worst thing in the world. Button is a world champion, after all.


Edited by Nonesuch, 08 November 2015 - 19:29.


#48 Fastcake

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 23:18

Perez was part of Ferrari's young driver programme, not McLaren's. He was hired simply because McLaren needed someone decent to fill Hamilton's seat in 2013, after Ferrari choose not to hire him. Then since Perez didn't work out, McLaren gave their young driver Magnussen a shot, who was decent but no match for the suddenly available Alonso. As for Vandoorne, sure he's a good talent, but McLaren don't have an open spot for him, and buying one elsewhere would cost millions that are better spent on the car.

 

I don't see what McLaren are doing that is so wrong. McLaren are solely concerned about the good of the team, not the career of any individual driver or the feelings of some fans. What would you have them do, shut the whole thing down because Vandoorne has to spend a year as a tester?



#49 Lennat

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:39

It seems more serious to actually let him RACE in Super Formula for a year than to simply be a "test" driver such as Susie Wolff or Kevin Magnussen. It would be stupid to buy a seat for say 20 (or even 10 or whatever) million euros that could be spent on the car.



#50 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 08:59

I think the only one who has ended up in a difficult place is Magnussen who really was at the wrong place at the wrong time. However, he wouldn't have been in F1 in the first place had it not been for McLaren, and the fact that Alonso decided to get out of Ferrari early and surprisingly back to McLaren created the situation where Magnussen found himself in. 

 

As for Perez, he was a Ferrardriver placed at Sauber who got an opportunity with McLaren. 

 

I think the jury is still out on the management of Vandoorne. If he doesn't end up in F1 next year I think it's time to criticize McLaren for how they managed their so cailed driver programme. But getting a year in Super Formula afteR GP2 is not a bad gig as another step before F1. Far better than standing with headphones on a F1-weekend anyway. 

 

Having said this though, As with many things McLaren these days it's hard to understand the logic behind their driver programme. 

 

Red Bull has a ladder all the way up to Toro Rosso in F1. 

 

Ferrari has a ladder that extends to Sauber and Haas potentially. 

 

Mercedes has DTM as they have a different approach. 

 

McLaren has nothing. 


Edited by LuckyStrike1, 09 November 2015 - 09:00.