57 replies to this topic

[Sheepmachine]

Ah Wales. The home of this:


These


And most importantly hosting this


Where is it all happening then?
The main service park is in North Wales at deeside and includes classic stages such as Great Orme and sweet lamb.
Full timetable here: EditThe original link isn't working so you will have to go through the site http://www.walesrall...information.php

But the championship is over, why should I care?
Don't be so miserable. There is still stuff to fight for. 2nd in the championship is still up for grabs between Latvala and Mikkelsen, also several drivers are fighting for their jobs. Both the ford drivers, Meeke and Neuville are all in danger so expect them to be risking it all to impress.

Thats great and all but what happened last round?
It was looking like a normal win for Ogier until he got bored on the last stage and crashed handing a jubilant Mikkelsen his first victory.

Where can I watch it?
There are plenty of live stages this weekend on TV.

Friday
BT sport 2 10:00-11:00
BT sport 1 14:00-15:00

Saturday
BT sport Europe 09:30-10:30

Sunday
BT sport 1 11:30-14:30

There are also day round ups on ITV4

Great anything else?
It will be 20 years since Colin McRae won the championship. Have a wave of nostalgia:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=grSOejp918U
Also this year it is 10 years since the passing of Richard Burns.

Also the weather is likely be foul so take your wellies if you are going.

Enjoy! It's going to be rally good!

Edited by Sheepmachine, 12 November 2015 - 19:04.

[Risil]

also several drivers are fighting for their jobs. Both the ford drivers, Meeke and Neuville are all in danger so expect them to be risking it all to impress.

 

Glengarry Glen Ross Rally GB it is.

 

Or should that be Glengarry Llanidloes?

Edited by Risil, 12 November 2015 - 19:17.

[AlexLangheck]

The event formerly known as the RAC Rally.....

Let's see how much interest this thread gets....

[Risil]

I'm actually going to be in the area on Saturday. Attending the 80th birthday of a real life sheep farmer, (un)fortunately. Will try to get to one of these before they move it to the Falklands or somewhere.

[JHSingo]

But the championship is over, why should I care?
Don't be so miserable. There is still stuff to fight for. 2nd in the championship is still up for grabs between Latvala and Mikkelsen, also several drivers are fighting for their jobs. Both the ford drivers, Meeke and Neuville are all in danger so expect them to be risking it all to impress.
 

 

Is it just me, or is Kris Meeke seemingly forever driving to save his career? I'm sure not many weeks go by before a headline like that appears in Autosport.

[BullHead]

It will be wet. Very wet. At least on the Saturday. There will be mud....

[Peat]

I actually got a bit teary just the other night watching some old editions of 'Rally Report' on YouTube.

YES, i may have had too much whisky, BUT it used to be bloody good!

(UK Nostalgia: )

I don't know if it's the cars, the drivers, the rallys or just the way it's presented nowadays, but I really struggle to get into it. I think the internet actually hinders it a bit. All the info at your fingertips, there's no waiting with anticipation for the program to start to see what's happened on today's stages.

Edited by Peat, 12 November 2015 - 19:22.

[Peat]

I'm actually going to be in the area on Saturday. Attending the 80th birthday of a real life sheep farmer, (un)fortunately. Will try to get to one of these before they move it to the Falklands or somewhere.

You should try and see it. There is something righteous about sleeping in your car, in the Welsh forest while drunks let off fireworks next to you before getting up and marching through the fog to get pelted by mud and stones from passing Scandinavians.

[OvDrone]

I am actually close to Wales right now and I was tempted to head up North, but alas my mind and heart is set to visit Avebury stone circle this Saturday.

 

Sheep, good going with the thread, mate. Let's make this a thing next year and bring hope to the hopeless rally fans eh?

[cpbell]

I actually got a bit teary just the other night watching some old editions of 'Rally Report' on YouTube.

YES, i may have had too much whisky, BUT it used to be bloody good!

(UK Nostalgia: )

I don't know if it's the cars, the drivers, the rallys or just the way it's presented nowadays, but I really struggle to get into it. I think the internet actually hinders it a bit. All the info at your fingertips, there's no waiting with anticipation for the program to start to see what's happened on today's stages.

 

What a leaderboard!

[BRG]

Is it just me, or is Kris Meeke seemingly forever driving to save his career? I'm sure not many weeks go by before a headline like that appears in Autosport.

As the only driver to win a WRC round in a Citroen since Loeb, obviously he will be struggling to hold onto his seat, when there are slower drivers that they could employ. 

 

Go Meekey, win it for Colin and Richard!

[chunder27]

There is a bit of a dearth of talent it seems.

 

It is a difficult situation in rallying as you have to give a driver time, to develop his speed, the notes, the car for himself.

 

So maybe a 2 year plan is not enough. Some never get the chance like Wilks, McShea who were notable good in lower classes and hardly got a run.

 

Others get too much time like Wilson, Mikkelsen arguably and in the past fellas like Atkinson.

 

Fnally others get thrown away very quickly like Duval or some of teh good Finns like Laukkanen and Kytolehto. all real good drivers in the past who never got chances while likes like Sb Lindholm got a factory car every year coz he was mates with Gronholm!

 

Face fits in rallying, just like it does in car racing. Craig Breen is the guy for me and Lefevbre keeps getting a shot in all sorts of rallies. And Paddon too who looks the real deal in a car Neuville has struggled with after looking the next big thing.

 

Simply put noone can hold a candle to Ogier, and why risk trying anyone really until this guy gets bored like Loeb did.

[Myrvold]

Mikkelsen? Really?

[chunder27]

I would have expected a supportive reply.

 

he has had plenty of chances and reminds me of Sordo, good but not good enough.

 

Been driving WRC cars for years now and won one event. 

 

If you think he is the next best thing fair enough.

 

I think there are far more drivers worthy of a go in that car.

[EightGear]

At least not Breen...


2nd place in the constructors is still up for grabs as well, close battle between Hyundai and Citroen while I believe M-Sport still have a chance too.

Neuville is safe by the way, he's in no danger for 2016.

[BRG]

I sort of agree with chunder but picking on Mikkelson is perhaps off target.   2015 was only his second full WRC season, and he did win the IRC previously.  Ostberg would have been a better target - just not quite good enough.  And presenting Paddon as a better prospect seems a little odd when it was Neuville who was a winner for Hyundai.

[AlexLangheck]

Neuville has lost his way this season, and I don't know why. I thought he was a future WRC champion when he started in the IRC, and was 2nd 2 years ago in the Fiesta. Even though he won last year, he's suffered a drop in performance. He's still young, has talent but has to get back next year.
As for Mikkelsen, I'm still not sure just how good he is - maybe we'll see next year, as its time we saw can he take the battle to Ogier consistently - if anybody can.

As for this event, well you'd have to expect a VW win, unless something untoward happens - but the current event doesn't throw up surprises that it once did.

[Myrvold]

he has had plenty of chances and reminds me of Sordo, good but not good enough.

 

Been driving WRC cars for years now and won one event. 

 

If you think he is the next best thing fair enough.

 

I think there are far more drivers worthy of a go in that car.

Two IRC titles (granted, the last one didn't really have much competition. After 2008 he's also had to work his way up from basically scratch again, I'm not convinced he is the "next big thing" though. Can't see a Norwegian title the next 6-8 years.

The rest of your examples can pretty easy be explained really, Wilks never won a title. McShea did it in PWRC, but the only good thing coming from that class must be Hayden Paddon.
I can't say that Tapio Laukkanen or Jarmo Kytölehto ever produced the WRC-contract runs, and Lindholm was mainly lucky that Grönholm was his cousin, but he also had better results than the two other finns in international rallies, and he dominated in Finland for some years.

Wilson got time, because... Wilson. Atkinson was in Subaru, he didn't ask for much money, and it's not like Subaru could get many other, way quicker drivers in the car either.

Lefevbre get's shots because he is French, while maybe not fair, it is understandable.

With that being said, I think all off M-Sports drivers this year (both for the "factory" team and season long customers) are drivers that could easily be replaced. But I am sure there are people here with more than valid arguments for keeping them

 

I also think that there would've been many drivers that could take Østberg's spot, he is in my mind dull and uninspiring. The positive is that he is a very safe pair of hands, he's taken points in every single rally he have started this year, and taken points in 44 of the last 48 rallies he have started.

[messy]

The WRC has regained a bit of its excitement for me this season after a lot of time in the wilderness. The works VWs are great, seeing Mikkelsen able to fight Ogier and Latvala is a big boost and Kris Meeke's win in Argentina was a massive moment. The return of night stages, the slightly more unpredictable nature of events this year....it's getting there. I drive a Polo too so it's always good to see a version of your car (well, my wife's!) winning at the highest level. 

 

I think Latvala stands a great chance this weekend. Have always thought that when all was well JML maybe has a tad more outright speed than Ogier particularly on events like this and Finland - but like Loeb, Ogier is an absolute machine when he's on form. The mistakes have crept in, though. Kris Meeke and (especially) Robert Kubica have both been infuriating. They are capable of being so fast, but just as capable of throwing the car into a ditch quite regularly. Sometimes it feels like Kubica is quite incapable of not aiming his car at the scenery at least once a day. Not surprised it looks like he's heading for the DTM instead next season. 

 

Neuville I dunno what's happened to. Ever since he went to Hyundai the spark has gone. Initially I thought it was because the car was fundamentally off the pace of the Polo and (when driven properly) the Citroen, but the back end of this season the team's frustrations with him have really come out. I don't think Neuville was ever an absolute superstar - much like Ostberg - but he had the season of his life in 2013 in the Fiesta. Evans strikes me as being fairly solid but not particularly fast. Likle a better version of Mathew Wilson. Maybe that's overly harsh.

 

I know Ostberg's eyesight was given as the reason for his low-key 2014 season, but I'm not sure why that should still be the problem now. 

Edited by messy, 13 November 2015 - 08:09.

[AlexLangheck]

Stage 1 is a classic; Hafren, 32km (20miles) of fast, flowing forest roads.

Ogier fastest from Latvala & Meeke....Neuville miles off the pace, as is Paddon.....

[EightGear]

So Latvala is off already. Congratulations to Ogier with the win.

[messy]

damn it

 

Ogier it is then.

[Peat]

This is it. We need 4 or 5 Ogier level drivers to make it remotely interesting. 

Question is: Were the heroes of the past equally good or equally cr@p?

[AlexLangheck]

The best driver in the best car, for the best funded & resourced team = domination. Same as when Loeb dominated.
Even when Makinen won 4 Titles in a row, he never dominated; in fact more drivers won events for different manufacturers.

It's a problem for the WRC that only 1 team at a time throws everything at it. Was Citroen, now it's VW. And they bizarrely want an extra round next year, costing even more. Personally, the WRC should cut its cloth and go for 10, 12 rounds at the most.

[Sheepmachine]

So Latvala is off already. Congratulations to Ogier with the win.

Botheration. Hopefully Meeke can keep him honest.

[Risil]

This is it. We need 4 or 5 Ogier level drivers to make it remotely interesting. 

Question is: Were the heroes of the past equally good or equally cr@p?

 

Equal competition between teams tends to generate heroes who appear to be equally talented. In reality, who knows?

[noikeee]

Equal competition between teams tends to generate heroes who appear to be equally talented. In reality, who knows?

 

But in the 80s and 90s there was a lot of movement between teams of top drivers, yet you never saw anyone establish themselves so consistently superior to their team-mates, like we saw with Loeb and now Ogier. In a good day several other drivers could beat Sainz, Kankkunen, Alen with the same car.

 

I reckon it's just random. Same thing happened in other motorsports and sports in general, small periods in time where a competitor is miles better than anyone else, after a couple years it goes back to normal. F1 had Schumacher, now we have 3 or 4 more or less equal top drivers (and F1 is doing a great job of missing a chance of proper rivalries developing between them, by having them swap titles in dominant cars). MotoGP had a silly superior Rossi for a while. Tennis had Federer. Swimming had Phelps. Football has Messi and Ronaldo. Etc.

[Lotus53B]

I'll see if I can catch it - I don't have BT sport...

I used to love going to see the Kielder special stage of the old Lombard RAC rally, a night stage at that...but that is 30+ years ago...

[chunder27]

It is a trend in surrent sport to hvae one man dominating it seems.

 

not always but often.

 

F1 has had its fair share in the last 20 years, as has MotoGP, Superbikes and expecially WRC.

 

But not all of it is down to drivers.  Loeb never went wnywhere else, denegrating his achievements in my book though only very slightly as he surely must have wanted to prove to himself he could win in a Ford. But look at Tommi, he never got that close to a win in a Subaru. 

 

The greats won in multiple cars, like Juha, Colin to some extent, Didier, particuarly Rohrl ( my pik as the best of his era) and Sainz.  But they all won in the best car of theri time, so its tricly to pick out.

 

For me Carlos has the best record, but I think Colin and Tommi were faster, places like new Zealand, RAC, Argentina, with those two flat outtaking 2 minutes out of Juha or Sainz were special.

 

I think Ogier would still win if he was in other cars, he is the only man to ever truly match Loeb in any Citroen consistently and if every car was a polo he would still be as dominant.

[ArnageWRC]

Carlos was Mr Consistency, and one of the first true professional rally drivers. Was fast, consistent on all surfaces, in all cars. Which explains why he won 2 WRC Titles, but was still in the Title hunt in 2003 at the back end of his career. Funnily enough, I remember in about 1988/89 on the RAC, and thinking he was a mad Spaniard....

 

As for this event; first one I've missed for about 10 years - had tickets, but a stomach bug has put paid to speccying - so have had to follow from home by way of RallyFM and BTSport. I shouldn't be surprised but the level of interest of the event has saddened me - it's just not there. With the RAC cancelled yesterday, the sport in this country is in some serious decline. 

[chunder27]

When you had as many fatalities as we have in recent years in certain areas, you cannot blame the organisers and people for this.

 

I went to an event at Donington a few weeks back and it was all fenced off areas, stage cancellations just because there was a section of really badly laid gravel cutting up.

 

It's a rally for Gods sake not a track day!

 

But this is how rallying has to be, cap in hand to anyone prepared to rent them ground for God knows how many tens of thousands.

 

The Rally Wales (I refuse to call in Rally GB as it is nothing of the sort) has suffered as it is now getting pricey, is it an awful time of year for casual fans and the cars though strong for 10 or so vehicles are boring to watch.

[Sheepmachine]

I'll see if I can catch it - I don't have BT sport...

I used to love going to see the Kielder special stage of the old Lombard RAC rally, a night stage at that...but that is 30+ years ago...

There is a day one round up tomorrow on itv4 at 12:10 and there is a day 2 round up on Sunday at 12:15. Hope that helps.
Day 1 leaderboard
1 Ogier
2 Meeke +13.5s
3 Mikkelsen +31.4s
4 Ostberg +43.0s
5 Sordo +1m18.7s
6 Tanak +1m34.9s
7 Paddon +2m03.5s
8 Evans +2m21.6s
9 Bertelli +3m21.5s
10 Lefebvre +3m25.4s
Hopefully Meeke can keep taking the fight to Ogier tomorrow but it will be a tough ask.

[OvDrone]

Meeke is closer than I honestly expected.

[noikeee]

Yeah by now I'd have expected Ogier to have blitzed everyone apart as usual.

[Pete_f1]

Nice and wet for them

[Anja]

 

Sat 13:48 - SS12: Paddon and Prokop
The pair have collided on the road section after SS12. Each went the wrong way after the stage. After one had turned back they met each other at a hairpin and connected head-on. Paddon's car has frontal damage but he's off to SS13. No news yet on Prokop's car.

 

 

[DrProzac]

lol

[Sheepmachine]

Chirk castle stage just starting.
Here is the leaderboard after the last stage.

1 Ogier 2h19m50.7s
2 Meeke +28.9s
3 Mikkelsen +57.2s
4 Tanak +2m24.8s
5 Sordo +2m33.0s
6 Paddon +2m58.5s

[Sheepmachine]

Didn't loeb and someone else collide on a road section in Jordan? See only the best do it. It's a sign of great things to come.

[AlexLangheck]

Conrad Rautenbach......

[Fatgadget]

I'll see if I can catch it - I don't have BT sport...

I used to love going to see the Kielder special stage of the old Lombard RAC rally, a night stage at that...but that is 30+ years ago...

Ah! You bring a tear to my eye boyo!
For me it has to be the woodyard in Dalby forest..The dead of night punctured by the bark of a barely silenced V6 Ferrari engined Stratos interspersed with the incessant howl of a BDA Escort engine bouncing on the rev-limiter, stones rattling on the floorpan the cacophony reverberating through the trees.And when the cars came into view, thousands of flashlights-more likely flashcubes on instamatics! all at once lighting up the scenery!...Magic!
Incidentaly,I lost interest in rallies when night stages and road rallying were curtailed.

Edit:Have to admit though, road rallies were getting well out of hand what with the top boys using full house Group 4 machines on public lanes!

Edited by Fatgadget, 14 November 2015 - 18:00.

[Sheepmachine]

If you want something amusing to listen to turn on rally radio and listen to Colin Clark flagging down drivers on a Welsh hillside to interview them in terrible weather conditions. Including quotes like this: Ogier "You are crazy! Haha!" Meeke "Only people out here should be sheep"

And the whole team has now dissolved into a fit of giggles. Madness has set in.

Edited by Sheepmachine, 14 November 2015 - 20:05.

[Sheepmachine]

Leaderboard going into the powerstage.


1 Ogier
2 Meeke +29.8s
3 Mikkelsen +46.0s
4 Sordo +2m49.2s
5 Paddon +3m04.0s
6 Evans +3m11.7s

[Sheepmachine]

Ogier wins Wales Rally GB. Congratulations to him as it will have clearly been hard for him to focus after the terrible events that happened on Friday. Also congratulations to Meeke on a great drive to 2nd, hopefully we will see him again next year because he certainly deserves to be there.

2015 season is now over and I've really enjoyed following it (even if the winner was predictable most rallies), I hope it will be even better next year. Guess it's time to watch some car race in Brazil, something called formula one...... Never heard of it.

[AlexLangheck]

Yes, well done to Seb & Julien for their 3rd win in Rally of GB, never really in doubt. Good, fast, reliable drive to 2nd for Kris & Paul in the DS3; as usual the best non VW driver. If that doesn't cement his place next year then the WRC is a joke. Another nice drive from Andreas & Ola to another podium.

While I shouldn't be surprised, I find the lack of interest in our 'flagship' rally event sad. It's completely anonymous, and holds no interest whereas it once did. I don't know how it helps the growth/ promotion of the sport in any way.

[BRG]

That would be the high quality Red Bull promotion of the WRC which has brought such media interest in our premier rallying event (if you don't count the Roger Albert Clark Rally that is)

[Myrvold]

That would be the high quality Red Bull promotion of the WRC which has brought such media interest in our premier rallying event (if you don't count the Roger Albert Clark Rally that is)

Because the media interest was amazing the year before Red Bull took over WRC Promotion?

[BRG]

No, it was crap.  That's why RB got the gig, only to prove completely incompetent.  They do more to promote their soapbox races than a World Championship.

[Myrvold]

No, it was crap.  That's why RB got the gig, only to prove completely incompetent.  They do more to promote their soapbox races than a World Championship.

 

Then I'm with you!

[AlexLangheck]

That would be the high quality Red Bull promotion of the WRC which has brought such media interest in our premier rallying event (if you don't count the Roger Albert Clark Rally that is)

And sadly, that is cancelled for this year, and next.