28 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

He was testing with McLaren and there were many talks about he joining the team. But for which driver?

And what had happened if that had come true? He was not very promising in his one-off for Arrows that year, so I think he was not really in best form.

 

What do you think about that?

And what about Jones last years in F1?

[f1steveuk]

Well, having been asked to drive the 126c Ferrari after Gilles and Didier's accidents, and as he put it himself "giving them the runaround" as he was enjoying life back in "Oz" too much, one does have to question how serious he was at that time

[E1pix]

Turning away any opportunity to drive a red car says it all.

[Michael Ferner]

Did he really test for McLaren? I don't recall that. He must've really been kicking himself for missing out on the Ferrari deal, because a year later he was so desperate to get back into F1 that he drove for Arrows!!

The FORCE deal is difficult to judge, since neither Tambay nor Cheever did much with that car, either, but to me it always seemed a desperate attempt to redress life balance as a pensioner.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 17 November 2015 - 16:14.

[Tim Murray]

My understanding is that Jones approached a number of teams in early 1983, starting with Williams, who (not unreasonably) told him to get lost. By then most teams had finalised their driver line ups. The exceptions included Arrows and McLaren. Lauda had a watertight contract, but Watson's contract with McLaren could be terminated by either party at any time, so he would have been the one to lose out if McLaren had decided to take Jones on. Watson then produced his brilliant winning drive at Long Beach, and the rumours linking Jones to McLaren suddenly died away ...

[garoidb]

The FORCE deal is difficult to judge, since neither Tambay nor Cheever did much with that car, either, but to me it always seemed a desperate attempt to redress life balance as a pensioner.

 

I remember that he did an Indycar race for Carl Haas's team when Mario was recovering from injury in 1985. That would also have been a good retirement activity with a better chance of winning, but he just did the season and a bit with the FORCE F1 team and no more. His reputation doesn't seem to have been tarnished by it, though. It must have just been a good financial deal.

 

Was he ever in the frame for, or interested in, a drive in F1 for 1987?

[king_crud]

I remember that he did an Indycar race for Carl Haas's team when Mario was recovering from injury in 1985. That would also have been a good retirement activity with a better chance of winning,

he ended up racing touring cars for a number of years in Australia, although with fairly average results

Edited by king_crud, 17 November 2015 - 18:52.

[E1pix]

Watson then produced his brilliant winning drive at Long Beach, and the rumours linking Jones to McLaren suddenly died away ...

My first GP since '78, and only there to paint the factory Van Diemen Super Vees. The bonus was The Ulsterman making a fan of me. Brilliant drive.

Of even greater impression to me was seeing Niki one more time. After thinking he was gone forever, I was in awe seeing him back. Nearly to tears, I was.

[Ray Bell]

I always got the impression that Alan didn't like the idea of driving for Ferrari...

Hence the 'runaround'.

[AJCee]

According to his biography/autobiography, Jones had a Ferrari contract for 1978 (or they had an option on him).  They didn't take it up and took Gilles Villeneuve instead.  If that's the case then it's easy to see why he might not have them on his Christmas card list.

[Ray Bell]

Even though, and I think it remains so to this day, he holds Gilles up as a truly great driver...

It must have been galling, however, to lose that Monaco to him.

[Lee Nicolle]

The other thing ofcourse was his size. When he drove the Arrows they had to beat the tub to fit him in and since by then F1 was for anorexics the burly Jones may not have fitted. While had got a bit chubby even at his best he was bigger than most.

Early 80s media reports had him driving for nearly every team in F1 plus Sports Cars and Indy too.

And he drove Hamiltons Sports Cars here and tourers for several teams. The sports cars he was a winner, the tourers he made up the numbers in the top third of the field.

[Tim Murray]

I think it's possibly unfair to dismiss his Arrows drives as 'not very promising'. At Long Beach he qualified 12th, four places ahead of his team mate Surer. Only three times during the year did anyone put an Arrows higher up a Grand Prix grid, and Alan achieved this after only a brief test at Willow Springs, and while recovering from a broken leg which left him with a heavy limp. At the Race of Champions he qualified 3rd, admittedly in a very depleted field, but nevertheless ahead of the likes of Long Beach winner John Watson, and Nigel Mansell. It's my belief that if Arrows had landed the promised sponsorship and Jones had got himself fully race fit, he'd have given a good account of himself.

[timbo]

It seems it's a case of, he'd had enough, but couldn't get it out of the system. Motorcycle GP champ Wayne Gardner was much the same. They both tried V8 Supercar racing, and were competitive, They both wanted to keep racing, but it wasn't the same drug.

Edited by timbo, 18 November 2015 - 08:41.

[f1steveuk]

Jones had every right to be annoyed with Ferrari. The option on him ( a full contract) was only null and vid if they got Mario. When Mario was confirmed for Lotus, Ferrari took on Gilles!!

 

As for FORCE, he was not only offered a lot of money, but the unique use of of the new Cosworth (the lure of a DFV of the future), only to get lumbered with a Hart, which as Alan says himself, "it wasn't a case of if it would blow up, it was always a case of when"

[Tim Murray]

To be fair, he raced 14 times with the Cosworth V6 turbo and 5 times with the Hart (would have been 6 if he'd taken the start at Kyalami in 1985).

[E1pix]

When Mario was confirmed for Lotus, Ferrari took on Gilles!!

You say that like it's a bad thing. 

[AJCee]

It's an interesting 'what if' scenario if Jones had gone to Ferrari.  We get the Jones/Reutemann mutual appreciation society two years earlier, Carlos still goes to Lotus and Scheckter joins Ferrari for '79.  But who would be in the 1978 Williams and ultimately get their hands on the FW07?  Was Gilles on Williams' list of possibles?

 

Ah, just seen it in the "Almost moves" thread...  Patrese or Mass.  Interesting.

Edited by AJCee, 19 November 2015 - 10:14.

[f1steveuk]

You say that like it's a bad thing. 

Well no bad thing, unless you were Alan Jones!!

[B Squared]

I remember that he did an Indycar race for Carl Haas's team when Mario was recovering from injury in 1985. That would also have been a good retirement activity with a better chance of winning, but he just did the season and a bit with the FORCE F1 team and no more. His reputation doesn't seem to have been tarnished by it, though. It must have just been a good financial deal.

 

A photo of Alan Jones in the Newman/Haas Lola at Road America in 1985 where he finished 3rd in his only Indy Car start. I was directly on the other side of the wall at the impact point at Station 6 during the Michigan 500 on lap 241 of 250 when Mario was injured. I can still recall the ground and wall shuddering from the massive impact and one of Mario's wheels flying overhead as my co-workers and I were ducked below the wall (then without catch fences). From eastern Pennsylvania's The Morning Call interview by Ted Meixell on October 16, 1985:

 

The most publicized setback was a horrible crash in the Michigan 500 on July 28, in which he suffered a broken collarbone and a hairline fracture of a hip. First, his injuries forced him to sit out a race for the first time in his 28-year career. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, he had to race at far less than his physical peak - and with significant pain - in the four races that followed.

 

"I was at full strength for the first time at Laguna Seca (Oct. 6)," he said. "I was back to normal - there was no different padding in the car, I didn't need any assistance getting into or out of the car."

 

short Speedweek race recap and Mario's accident:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YQgX-7SRWtI

 

ten minute Road America recap showing Jones in Mario's car: 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=jbr3iYZa2m8

 

[ellrosso]

Very interesting watching Alan's racing career through the years. In a recent interview his team-mate in the 90's (and V8 Supercars team owner at the time), Glenn Seton said you never really knew what you were going to get till he turned up on the day. He could be really on it and quick or just going through the motions. In V8 Supercars he was quick on his day (pole position at Oran Park 1997 shot in his own team car) but by 1999 he was co-driver with Anthony Tratt in the Toll Racing entry which usually at the back of the pack. By 2002 he had his last go at Bathurst in one of Dick Johnson's cars with Greg Ritter - they came 7th but you could tell AJ's heart wasn't really in it any more. When motivated though he was amazing - the 935 at Baskerville was just fantastic. He squeezed every last ounce out of that car! Really quick in the Alfa Team GTV6 too. His 1977 win in the Lola T332 was just flawless. Really quick in the Lola at the AGP in 1985. Shame he left F1 when he did in 1981 seemingly at the peak of his powers. I thought he had at least 1 more WDC in him.

Edited by ellrosso, 20 November 2015 - 09:47.

[E1pix]

Lovely images and post, L!!!

[racer69]

Did he really test for McLaren?

 

There was a documentary from 1983-ish called something like "Ten Tenths with Alan Jones" which features Jones having a drive of a McLaren. Perhaps this fuelled the rumours of a link-up?

 

Was he ever in the frame for, or interested in, a drive in F1 for 1987?

 

I've got an interview on tape somewhere from early 1987 of Channel 9 in Australia asking him that exact question, and he basically says he's not interested unless it's a drive with one of the top teams with a chance of winning.

Jones subsequently signed with Toyota to race Group C Sportscars and Group A Touring Cars in Japan for 1987.

I vaguely recall him being linked with Mansell's car as the replacement for the Australian GP at the end of 1987, but Toyota wouldn't allow him to race a Honda-engined car

[Lee Nicolle]

Very interesting watching Alan's racing career through the years. In a recent interview his team-mate in the 90's (and V8 Supercars team owner at the time), Glenn Seton said you never really knew what you were going to get till he turned up on the day. He could be really on it and quick or just going through the motions. In V8 Supercars he was quick on his day (pole position at Oran Park 1997 shot in his own team car) but by 1999 he was co-driver with Anthony Tratt in the Toll Racing entry which usually at the back of the pack. By 2002 he had his last go at Bathurst in one of Dick Johnson's cars with Greg Ritter - they came 7th but you could tell AJ's heart wasn't really in it any more. When motivated though he was amazing - the 935 at Baskerville was just fantastic. He squeezed every last ounce out of that car! Really quick in the Alfa Team GTV6 too. His 1977 win in the Lola T332 was just flawless. Really quick in the Lola at the AGP in 1985. Shame he left F1 when he did in 1981 seemingly at the peak of his powers. I thought he had at least 1 more WDC in him.

You look at that pic of the 944 and it looks totally incomplete! 935 guards on it? 

And you can see Alans pork too in the pic. Built for Nascar not F1

[stuartbrs]

You look at that pic of the 944 and it looks totally incomplete! 935 guards on it? 

And you can see Alans pork too in the pic. Built for Nascar not F1

 

I`d say its actually a 924, I`m guessing one of the LeMans cars that Porsche used to develop a lot of the 944 parts (such as the engine)?

 

That Beatrice Lola was a really pretty little car. Somewhere on youtube is a documentary on the development of the Cosworth Turbo that went into that car. 

[Ray Bell]

Could it be the 924 that Hamilton ran at Le Mans for Brock etc?

The timing is right.

[Catalina Park]

It was the 924 from the failed Le Mans effort. It was turned into a 944 by changing the motor. it was always raced here as a 944.

[MLC]

I`d say its actually a 924, I`m guessing one of the LeMans cars that Porsche used to develop a lot of the 944 parts (such as the engine)?

 

That Beatrice Lola was a really pretty little car. Somewhere on youtube is a documentary on the development of the Cosworth Turbo that went into that car.

 

 

It's an episode of Equinox titled "Made to Order". Very good documentary with a brief appearance by a young Rory Byrne.

[ellrosso]

Just checking some 1982 RCN's and the 944 Turbo (as it was referred to in the race reports but plenty of details show its 924 origins) was originally slated for Jones to drive until Hamilton got wind of Bruce Spicer getting the 935 for Rusty French (detailed in the Baskerville race report).