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Is this the end of McLaren?


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#1 CountDooku

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:44

When I first started following F1 in the noughties, I was inexplicably drawn to McLaren. Their silver/black and then chrome/red liveries effused coolness and efficiency. Ron's maniacal drive for perfection and the endless use of logic within the team fits perfectly with my personality type, so I guess it was inevitable.

 

In 2007 they were at the peak of their (modern day) powers. Though they hadn't won a championship in 7 years, they had just signed the current double world champion from under the nose of Ferrari. They also stole Vodafone on a massive 7-year contract and they had the backing of the mighty Daimler. Santander joined not long after and one nobody from Stevenage called Lewis Hamilton.

 

This was the year they would take the fight to Ferrari. They had the car, the drivers and the money. They even threw a massive launch party for the MP4-22 in Valencia, which was rumoured to have cost millions. Unfortunately we know how that season turned out, and it appears Vodafone wasn't the only thing they stole from Ferrari. For thread unity I will say no more.

 

2008 was the year they finally got their championship, but it seems both driver and team could have done better. Would McLaren finally push on and dominate? No. The start of next year was a complete disaster, with a flawed concept. The team, BrawnGP, that McLaren saved with their generous offer of Merc engines stole a march on everyone and won both titles. This act of generosity by Whitmarsh would come back to haunt McLaren. Mercedes bought BrawnGP the following year for a pittance and McLaren lost works status, free engines and funding.

 

2010 to 2013 saw the rise of the Red Bull. Eight titles on the trot. McLaren had a (very strong) sniff in 2012, but they threw it away with the most amateur display of strategy, pitwork and reliability that I have ever seen in a modern F1 team. A consistently excellent Lewis Hamilton couldn't save them and RBR won another one. Lewis couldn't stomach another missed opportunity and was off, promised a land of milk, honey and dominant championships by Loki Lauda and Brawn. Vodafone and Santander weren't far behind, taking a giant chunk of funding away.

 

 

 

Since the bright flash of 2012, McLaren have been absolutely dire on track. This team was one of the best funded, so they can't blame money. This team has had at least one WDC driving for them since 2007 (exception is 2008 but Lewis won his championship that year), and for most of the period it's had two. They can't blame the drivers. They had the dominant Mercedes engine for all years from 2008 up till 2015, and they did nothing with them. They can't blame the engine.

 

WTF is going on at McLaren? The fact that the factory has only been able to build four competitive cars in the past decade is shocking. Of the four, only the MP4-20 and 27 could be said to be the undoubted class of the field pace-wise. Given the engines and facilities, this is truly shocking.

 

I don't think I can blame Ron for the on-track failures as he has build a tidy engineering business on the side and has created a small, but rapidly growing, super sports car company. From all accounts the cars are excellent and the firm is already profitable. I can, however, blame him for the collapse in funding. The loss of TAG Heuer was the last straw (on top of Hugo Boss). These are decades old partnerships and the sponsors can't take it it anymore.

 

That I'm a Hamilton fan and that he's had so much success since he left helps numb the pain, but it still hurts seeing the team of Fitti, Hunt, Lauda, Prost, Senna and Hakkinen as backmarkers being lapped by their protégé

 

So to circle back to the beginning - is this the end of McLaren as we know them? Can they even survive in the sport with no sponsors? Will the drivers be patient? Will they wind down the F1 effort and focus on roadcars? Am I being too dramatic? What do you think?

 

 



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#2 Lennat

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:53

They HAVE to improve A LOT next year. Like, regular podiums at least... Another crap season and no sponsors would be REALLY bad.



#3 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:57

I think there's really only one obvious explanation: Lewis Hamilton's connection to McLaren didn't end at driving the car, it was mystical in nature.

 

Like how the presence of ravens in the Tower of London protect England from disaster.



#4 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:00

It'll never be the end. The early mid 90s their performance was very poor not as bad as 2015 but nonetheless they bounced back. Look at Williams, Ferrari, Benetton/Renault they all have ups and downs

It's the nature of F1

Edited by jimjimjeroo, 18 November 2015 - 10:00.


#5 kosmos

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:00

As long as they have Honda paying some bills, they are fine I think. And sponsors will come when the car improves.



#6 Timstr11

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:05

That myth that Honda is paying their bills.



#7 Lotus53B

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:07

I think there's really only one obvious explanation: Lewis Hamilton's connection to McLaren didn't end at driving the car, it was mystical in nature.

 

Like how the presence of ravens in the Tower of London protect England from disaster.

Britain.  And their wings are clipped so they can't fly away even if they wanted to.  ANd they have spares in captivity, just in case.  And the earliest reference to this legend is 1944...

 

The legend is very like McLaren, there seems to be quite some bollocks behind the scenes...

 

I've been a fan of McLaren since the early 70s when I had my photo taken sitting on a Yardley sponsored vehicle at Silverstone, but I'm getting gloomy.  They've fallen to a level that will be very hard to recover from.

 

If, come the first test next year, McLaren are not at least matching Williams/Ferrari, it may be sayonara...



#8 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:09

Are you telling me my theory might have a few holes in it?



#9 CountDooku

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:10

I think there's really only one obvious explanation: Lewis Hamilton's connection to McLaren didn't end at driving the car, it was mystical in nature.

 

Like how the presence of ravens in the Tower of London protect England from disaster.

 

I was trying to start a serious discussion, the post doesn't really have much to do with Lewis.



#10 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:18

It'll never be the end. The early mid 90s their performance was very poor not as bad as 2015 but nonetheless they bounced back. Look at Williams, Ferrari, Benetton/Renault they all have ups and downs

It's the nature of F1

 

I suppose it depends how you measure 'bounce back'. If by that you mean could things be better than they are now, then all things are possible, especially if Honda have a breakthrough. But in your examples, those teams never really consistently made it back to the front, they moved from being disastrous to middling. Williams at present, for example, seem somewhat stuck. How much it is down to being customers rather than works teams and how much is because of their budget being reduced due to their diminished success, is hard to say. 



#11 KiloWatt

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:19

They need a season like Williams had last year, or Mercedes had in 2013 to prove to the paddock, their shareholders, their sponsors, their fans and most importantly themselves, that they're still relevant.  In those respective seasons, those respective teams proved they still matter.  They weren't the fastest, but they were very relevant in the season.  Importantly, both came from disastrous seasons.

 

And don't tell me that Williams, Ferrari and Renault made it through tough times.  That's just intentionally listing the teams that made it, and ignoring the many that didn't.  McLaren, in my opinion, is in a fight for survival.



#12 Owen

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:26

Not the end. After 3 difficult seasons, it's the beginning. 



#13 KingTiger

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:27

It seems like it. I can see Red Bull stealing Honda from them as well next year.

#14 fed up

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:28

Is it the end for Mclaren? As a top tier F1 team yes IMO. As a participant amking up the numbers, no. I think they will soldier on in some guise and may bounce back in the future whne the likes of Ron have long gone.

 

In my view the beginning of the end was when Ron moved upstairs to be replaced by Whitmarsh and their hiring of Jenson Button. Button & Whitmarsh between them were influential in Lewis leaving the team, but I guess rebuffing a Mercedes take over and the road car operation is what has ultimately cost them.

 

The question is whether the success of the road car division make up for the lack of success in F1 - who knows



#15 Lopek

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:32

I think it is a long long road back for McLaren and don't see it starting anytime soon. More worrying then the disastrous performance this season is the string of promises of big improvements though the season that have not materialised. It suggests they don't understand their performance issues & what they need to fix them. Without that you're going nowhere.

 

With no major sponsors & relatively negligible FOM money that's got to hit development - especially with the massive overheads that the MTC must have compared to other team facilities. I always thought it was a preposterous waste of millions that should have been invested in car development - I don't think it's any coincidence that it's building coincided with the start of the downturn. Compare the grotty Milton Keynes industrial estate where RBR are based - where were the priorities?

 

Any potential new sponsor has to be immediately put off by decades old sponsors like Hugo Boss & TAG Heuer jumping ship and they were having no success before that anyway. The many promises of new sponsor announcements after Vodafone left - "before the end of the season/before Christmas/before testing starts/before the start of the season...." suggest there was interest from companies - Gillette, Sony, CocaCola etc rumoured - but none ever happened. What were they seeing when the negotiations got serious? 

 

I'd be surprised to see McLaren winning again this decade.



#16 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:34

It's all up to what Honda can do before the start of next season to get closer.

Such is the nature of the sport the last few years with these stupid regulations.

 

I don't expect Macca to come out all guns blazing and start going for wins, but at absolute minimum they have to be top of the midfield for the first few races.

Then and only then, will they start to gain back the respect most people have had for them, and people will start talking about them in a positive light. 

The Sponsors will come back once they are getting results and more TV time  :)

 

Look at Williams !

They are my favourite Team, and it's been such a long lean patch that I thought they might even fold there for a while.

 

Macca will be back, but if next year is sad it's going to take a long time to recover.


Edited by Ricciardo2014, 18 November 2015 - 10:36.


#17 Marklar

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:34

As long as they have factory Support: no. But should Honda leave than they could face the Williams fate

#18 Marklar

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:36

As long as they have Honda paying some bills, they are fine I think. And sponsors will come when the car improves.

Problem is that Sponsors are not coming to F1. Even if you are succeesfull

#19 Marklar

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:38

I think there's really only one obvious explanation: Lewis Hamilton's connection to McLaren didn't end at driving the car, it was mystical in nature.

Like how the presence of ravens in the Tower of London protect England from disaster.

You got it wrong! Its obviously Whitmarsh

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#20 RedBaron

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:38

The problem is Alonso thought he was going to be at Ferrari for life. So when he signed they took ownership rights of his 6 tenths. That was a big mistake contractually and it was Flavio's oversight. After Alonso left for McLaren in 2015 he didn't bring the 6 tenths with him. 

 

When Vettel moved from Red Bull he had it written into his contract that he'd get the 6 tenths. 

 

This explains a lot.

 

Why Alonso isn't smashing Button (no 6 tenths) and why Raikkonen has been beaten by both Alonso and Vettel (they each had the 6 tenths).

 

If Alonso had those 6 tenths at McLaren one car at least would be further up the order and McLaren might not be in this mess.

 

It's just a theory but so far it seems like the most legit thing I've seen posted on these forums. 

 

Referencing Alonso's 6 tenths he brings


Edited by RedBaron, 18 November 2015 - 10:49.


#21 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:39

I think it is a long long road back for McLaren and don't see it starting anytime soon. More worrying then the disastrous performance this season is the string of promises of big improvements though the season that have not materialised. It suggests they don't understand their performance issues & what they need to fix them. Without that you're going nowhere.

 

With no major sponsors & relatively negligible FOM money that's got to hit development - especially with the massive overheads that the MTC must have compared to other team facilities. I always thought it was a preposterous waste of millions that should have been invested in car development - I don't think it's any coincidence that it's building coincided with the start of the downturn. Compare the grotty Milton Keynes industrial estate where RBR are based - where were the priorities?

 

Any potential new sponsor has to be immediately put off by decades old sponsors like Hugo Boss & TAG Heuer jumping ship and they were having no success before that anyway. The many promises of new sponsor announcements after Vodafone left - "before the end of the season/before Christmas/before testing starts/before the start of the season...." suggest there was interest from companies - Gillette, Sony, CocaCola etc rumoured - but none ever happened. What were they seeing when the negotiations got serious? 

 

I'd be surprised to see McLaren winning again this decade.

 

Agreed on the MTC thing being in hindsight (ha), a distracting and unnecessary project at best. Also, when people would say how it doesn't feel like a place that makes racing cars, it is generally meant as a compliment due to how space-age and exotic it is, but that's a bit of a double-edged sword too.



#22 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:46

You got it wrong! Its obviously Whitmarsh

 

In all seriousness, though 2013 seems like halycon days in hin looking back now, at the time it was seen as a shockingly bad season that Macca hoped to swiftly recover from.



#23 Owen

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:48

In all seriousness, though 2013 seems like halycon days in hin looking back now, at the time it was seen as a shockingly bad season that Macca hoped to swiftly recover from.

Personally, I think the team looked lost in 2013, 2014 was starting to regroup in comparison!



#24 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:54

Personally, I think the team looked lost in 2013, 2014 was starting to regroup in comparison!

 

Owen, I really do hope so. I see McLaren as an essential part of what makes F1 worth it for me so I always am hoping for better days.



#25 PassWind

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:57

I think its more of a question for the McLaren Group, some time in the near future the group will transcend its first generation generals. Begin operating on their legacy, a charter as agreed by all parties. Ron cannot run the business forever, and F1 is not the only iron in the fire especially when it truly becomes a business rather than one mans passion to drive McLaren on. 

 

The racing deal with Honda gives some certainly but I am guessing it has several exit clauses in it regardless. I hope to see a resurgence under near leadership some time down the track, more importantly I hope their business unit keeps driving towards the leading edge of automotive engineering. 



#26 P123

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:59

Not the end. After 3 difficult seasons, it's the beginning.


The only way is up... surely.

The real problem with McLaren has been technical leadership. Even going way back to 2002/ 2003 with Newey's bag of bolts. Even honing the 2002 car nearly got them a WDC, but they never learned from that and what can be achieved with small steps. The last umpteen years it was all about the latest tech brainwave- f-duct, u-shaped sidepods, octopus exhaust, changing the front suspension, shrouds on the rear suspension... always getting excited about the latest 'revolutionary' design, but no lessons ever carried over from one car to the next, always a blank sheet. And when they did get it right in 2012... oh dear, such was the level of incompetence even a deliberate saboteur would have struggled to keep up with their strike rate.

Edited by P123, 18 November 2015 - 11:00.


#27 Marklar

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:02

But it makes you wonder what happened between 2012 and 2013. They went straight from having the fastest car to being a midfield team withoout big rule changes and without decisive people leaving. It was strange

#28 muramasa

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:05

mclaren had option to become Merc satellite team much like current williams and in that case they would be doing better than williams, taking points off of Ferrari and snatching odd win(s) now, with JB/KMag and Wehrein as friday driver who is to be promoted to regular for 2016 .

but such can never be an option for mclaren and I praise them for their vision, ambition, and courage.



#29 Mc_Silver

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:06

McLaren has always found a way to come back. You can't write them off. They'll be back stronger than ever after these difficult times. 



#30 MikeMM

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:15

It's all up to what Honda can do before the start of next season to get closer.

Such is the nature of the sport the last few years with these stupid regulations.

 

I don't expect Macca to come out all guns blazing and start going for wins, but at absolute minimum they have to be top of the midfield for the first few races.

Then and only then, will they start to gain back the respect most people have had for them, and people will start talking about them in a positive light. 

The Sponsors will come back once they are getting results and more TV time  :)

 

Look at Williams !

They are my favourite Team, and it's been such a long lean patch that I thought they might even fold there for a while.

 

Macca will be back, but if next year is sad it's going to take a long time to recover.

 

Mclaren said they dont want to be client of Mercedes or any other engine producer.

So they would rather fold if Honda cant improve than chose Williams path.



#31 Dan333SP

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:16

They need a season like Williams had last year, or Mercedes had in 2013 to prove to the paddock, their shareholders, their sponsors, their fans and most importantly themselves, that they're still relevant.  In those respective seasons, those respective teams proved they still matter.  They weren't the fastest, but they were very relevant in the season.  Importantly, both came from disastrous seasons.

 

 

I'm not going to disagree on Williams, but 2012 was hardly a disaster for Mercedes leading in to 2013. They won their first race, had a handful of top 4 grid slots throughout the year, and generally improved on 2011. Not a great season, but it was a clear upward trend ever since BGP became Mercedes AMG in 2010. 2013 and 2014 were obvious continuations of that trend.



#32 MustangSally

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:19

Williams deciine, in my view, stemmed far more from inner turmoil . . . a team unable to change and re invent itself. It may appear 'stuck' but it is again in the ascendancy. That's mostly a management thing.

 

If you are worried about McLaren, it seems to me that should be your focus.



#33 trogggy

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:27

No.  Obviously not. 

In the same way it wasn't the end of Ferrari when they were rubbish at various points in the '70s and '80s.

They're financially much stronger than most teams, they employ plenty of talented people, they have a wealth of knowledge of how to win... they just have a piss-poor engine at the moment.

It's a ridiculous question.



#34 Owen

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:29

Quote from Jenson Button which I think is important: “There's a lot of hard work going on and, even in hard times like now, there is a still a lot of confidence in the team. They're working flat-out to improve the car and the power unit, so there's a good atmosphere – which I think a lot of people are surprised about. 

 

From http://www.crash.net...SkpKwWOZwo3V.99



#35 YoungGun

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:38

No.  Obviously not. 

In the same way it wasn't the end of Ferrari when they were rubbish at various points in the '70s and '80s.

They're financially much stronger than most teams, they employ plenty of talented people, they have a wealth of knowledge of how to win... they just have a piss-poor engine at the moment.

It's a ridiculous question.

 

As the saying goes, "no pain no gain" ... hopefully like Ferrari, Macca lands on their feet again,



#36 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:52

Mclaren said they dont want to be client of Mercedes or any other engine producer.

So they would rather fold if Honda cant improve than chose Williams path.

 

I understand the not wanting to be a client / customer, but I'd be very surprised if they've ever said they would rather fold  :eek:

I honestly don't think they have ever thought down those lines.

 

All I'm getting at is that if Honda don't make some really impressive improvements, then McLaren are in for a world of pain that may take years to recover from.

Same as it did for Williams.



#37 Rinehart

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:59

Personally I'm certain that McLaren will eventually find their way back to the front, whether it's next year, in 3 years or 10 years and with or without Honda I don't know, but I believe these things are cyclical and McLaren will have their time again. At a guess I'd say that McLaren Honda should be able to get competitive enough to win races in the current rules formula (probably by 2017), but to "dominate" they need the opportunity of a new rules set for that - which is what normally causes the new hierarchical order e.g. 2009, 2014.

 

In the long term, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams are likely to be around long after Mercedes and maybe Red Bull have gone. They are the only 3 teams that exist as F1 teams as their core business and also have the financial stability (slight question mark over Williams) to likely be around as long as there is a F1.


Edited by Rinehart, 18 November 2015 - 12:01.


#38 CountDooku

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:14

No.  Obviously not. 

In the same way it wasn't the end of Ferrari when they were rubbish at various points in the '70s and '80s.

They're financially much stronger than most teams, they employ plenty of talented people, they have a wealth of knowledge of how to win... they just have a piss-poor engine at the moment.

It's a ridiculous question.

 

Remind me the last time McLaren won if they haven't forgotten how to? How come they didn't win in 2013 and 2014 when they had the best engine?

 

On top of the clear technical failures, you have a mass exodus of sponsors. How will they fund this renaissance if the prize money has dried up and they have no sponsors?


Edited by CountDooku, 18 November 2015 - 12:15.


#39 onewingedangel

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:18

McLaren need to look at their brand image and sponsorship procurement, it's not purely down to a run of poor form that they are losing sponsors.

 

Personally, I think Ron's coup at the start of 2014 has not in the least helped McLaren.



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#40 Rinehart

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:29

Remind me the last time McLaren won if they haven't forgotten how to? How come they didn't win in 2013 and 2014 when they had the best engine?

 

Done to death mate on here mate... "Had the best (V8) engine in 2013 is debatable", more like "equitable" but anyway the problem was a huge mistake with the design philosophy of that car, which was doubly stupid as they went away from a proven competitive package in 2012... 2014 they had the engine from the "manufacturer of the best engine" but it's highly debatable that they had the best "package" in terms of a collaborative partnership with Mercedes, with whom they were in the process of severing all commercial and sporting ties. McLaren built good cars in 2012, 11, 10, (sorted it in 09), 08, 07, 05 - 7 in a decade. 

 

But anyway, that's all in the past. The reason they have gone with Honda and signed a new cast of designers and engineers and Alonso is to try a new way to come up with a best engine, car, driver combo. If its achieved it will be with a completely new set of people so the past is now largely irrelevant. The only carry over is the culture and operations at McLaren and the suggestion is that an awful lot of the operations have changed, so that only really leaves the culture. Form a queue behind me if you have worries about that...



#41 pdac

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:29

Mclaren said they dont want to be client of Mercedes or any other engine producer.

So they would rather fold if Honda cant improve than chose Williams path.

 

That's the point, though. Honda must improve and they will improve. McLaren right now have ambitions to be back at the top, which is why they are partnered with Honda. As long as they can keep running as a team, they are on the right track. Very similar to Red Bull, really. They are both teams not content with running second best.



#42 trogggy

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:45

Remind me the last time McLaren won if they haven't forgotten how to? How come they didn't win in 2013 and 2014 when they had the best engine?

 

On top of the clear technical failures, you have a mass exodus of sponsors. How will they fund this renaissance if the prize money has dried up and they have no sponsors?

Did Ferrari die in the 1970s?  And again in the 1980s?

 

Why hasn't any team won with a customer engine recently?  Why did McLaren want a works engine deal?  Why do I think even you don't seriously believe that McLaren are gone never to return?

 

Edit: link to McLaren's balance sheet?  How many teams on the grid have more / less to invest?


Edited by trogggy, 18 November 2015 - 12:47.


#43 RPM40

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:49

Its probably not 'the end', but their 2016 performance will really be make or break for the team, which is a right shame. I think if they can establish themselves near the front next season not all hope is lost, however if they spend another year in the doldrums the lack of sponsorship money will be hard to recover from.



#44 trogggy

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:55

Does anyone actually know what McLaren's financial situation is?

Anyone know how much (if anything) Honda are footing the bill for / putting in?

They don't appear to be living hand-to-mouth given their driver signings, but I keep reading that they're on the edge of a cliff.



#45 GTRacer

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:05

McLaren will be fine, They likely still have to go through a bit of pain but they will get through it & will get back to the front of the grid.

 

Remember that they lost some key people the past couple years (Hamilton & Lowe for example) & have brought in people to replace them who's influences have not yet had the opportunity to fully take effect on team or car.

It takes time for new personnel to bed in & for whatever changes they make to wherever department there put in charge of to take full effect. Peter Prodromou for instance has only been there a few months & whatever re-organization of the design/engineering teams that he plans to do is yet to take full effect & he's yet to have an influence over a full car design.
 
Honda will improve & with a years experience both them & the team will sort out a better packaging/integration solution which will help Honda make changes to the power unit.


#46 Mohican

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:06

Lotus, Tyrrell, Brabham, Ligier are all gone.

More to the point, if you exclude Ferrari and McLaren only Scuderia Toro Rosso and "Team Enstone" (whatever they are called this week) are more than 25 years old.



#47 jcbc3

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:07

Williams

#48 CountDooku

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:07

Did Ferrari die in the 1970s?  And again in the 1980s?

 

Why hasn't any team won with a customer engine recently?  Why did McLaren want a works engine deal?  Why do I think even you don't seriously believe that McLaren are gone never to return?

 

Edit: link to McLaren's balance sheet?  How many teams on the grid have more / less to invest?

 

You can find the summary in the Companies House filing (Dec 2014) on pages 9 and 10. https://beta.compani.../filing-history

 

This doesn't give the individual breakdown but they went from a £15m profit in 2013 to a £24m loss in 2014.

 

I'm not so concerned about performance in isolation, but the loss of income which would severely restrict their ability to recover long term. This is a problem Ferrari never had during their downturns as they funded racing from the hugely successful road division and sponsorships.

 

As much as I love McLaren, they are not Ferrari. At least not yet!


Edited by CountDooku, 18 November 2015 - 13:09.


#49 Knowlesy

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:15

But it makes you wonder what happened between 2012 and 2013. They went straight from having the fastest car to being a midfield team withoout big rule changes and without decisive people leaving. It was strange

 

That is just how McLaren are since the turn of the century. They are very up and down, one minute the car is a contender and the next it is scrapping for fourth.

 

The fact that their solution to all of this was to bring back Ron, a key part of that decade of up and down performance, speaks volumes. He has achieved a certain level of consistency since his return, it just isn't very good.



#50 Quickshifter

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:24

Yet another thread intended to bash Mclaren. Now how many parallel threads discussing the same stuff are going on..