Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change [split topic]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
470 replies to this topic

#451 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 5,617 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:34

It's not like Hamilton will have it easier when Verstappen or Ricciardo joins him as his team-mate in 2017, so the whole discussion is ridiculous. :)

 

2017:

Mercedes-Mercedes

Hamilton/Verstappen OR

Hamilton/Ricciardo

 

Either way, should be great.  :up:

 

 

Make up or we'll get Verstappen and you can experience 2007 in reverse you mean?

 

To be honest I think they would go for him anyway.

 

Mercedes being German I still believe Rosberg has one big advantage over Hamilton.

 

f Hamillton and Rosberg can't get along in 2016 and the situation deteriorates further I could see the board insisiting to get rid of Hamilton depsite his two titles instead of Rosberg.

 

In that case we might see Rosberg/Verstappen instead of Hamilton/Verstappen (or Hamilton/Ricciardo).

 

I could see Hamilton going back to McLaren to replace Alonso who might call it quits in 2017, perhaps alongside Vandoorne. Not a bad prospect either.



Advertisement

#452 garoidb

garoidb
  • Member

  • 8,393 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:39

Mercedes being German I still believe Rosberg has one big advantage over Hamilton.

 

f Hamillton and Rosberg can't get along in 2016 and the situation deteriorates further I could see the board insisiting to get rid of Hamilton depsite his two titles instead of Rosberg.

 

In that case we might see Rosberg/Verstappen instead of Hamilton/Verstappen (or Hamilton/Ricciardo).

 

I could see Hamilton going back to McLaren to replace Alonso who might call it quits in 2017, perhaps alongside Vandoorne. Not a bad prospect either.

 

Ricciardo could well be one of the options to go alongside either Lewis or Nico if they decided to break up the current partnership. He might also appeal to a young demographic, is quite a bit younger than either Lewis or Nico but has enough experience to slot straight in to a WDC level team. Does he want to stay at Red Bull (who have many talented youngsters coming through anyway)? He would be my choice.



#453 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:41

Please enlighten me then. What other criteria could Mercedes be valuing their drivers on aside from driving related skills and brand-ability?

As I said I'm quite open to be proven wrong but some kind of evidence would be a start.

Exaclty the brand-ability what Ive explained earlier (merchendise-sells, sponsor attractivity, image change for the company)

Mercedes being German I still believe Rosberg has one big advantage over Hamilton.

f Hamillton and Rosberg can't get along in 2016 and the situation deteriorates further I could see the board insisiting to get rid of Hamilton depsite his two titles instead of Rosberg.

In that case we might see Rosberg/Verstappen instead of Hamilton/Verstappen (or Hamilton/Ricciardo).

I could see Hamilton going back to McLaren to replace Alonso who might call it quits in 2017, perhaps alongside Vandoorne. Not a bad prospect either.

Thats indeed the only advantage Rosberg has, but would it be enough? I doubt it tbh. And Wolff also said that they would overthinking to have two strong drivers (assuming thats what he really meant, what I also doubt), so they wouldnt hire someone like Verstappen neither in that case. Especially if Ferrari is catching up they could regret it to have then a pairing Bottas/Rosberg imo.

Hamilton to McLaren is almost impossible given that Dennis is stil there. Im stil expecting that both are stil at Mercedes in 2017 tbh

Edited by Marklar, 05 December 2015 - 13:32.


#454 Peter Perfect

Peter Perfect
  • Member

  • 5,618 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:46

Exaclty the brand-ability what Ive explained earlier (merchendise-sells, sponsor attractivity, image change for the company)

 

Do you have some figures to prove that Hamilton has improved the brand of Mercedes? The only recent data I've seen is the Autosport Fan Survey which is why I said I couldn't see any positive correlation between Hamilton joining and the brand of the team becoming more attractive. If you have something else then please share.

 

(All of this applies to Rosberg too of course)



#455 Peter Perfect

Peter Perfect
  • Member

  • 5,618 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:47

Hamilton to McLaren is almost impossible given that Dennis is stil there. Im stil expecting that both are stil at Mercedes in 2017 tbh

 

To be fair they said that about Alonso too!



#456 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:54

f Hamillton and Rosberg can't get along in 2016 and the situation deteriorates further I could see the board insisiting to get rid of Hamilton depsite his two titles instead of Rosberg.

 

Let's not forget Rosberg has been with Mercedes since 2010. That's six seasons already under his belt.

 

He will jump to 4th on the 'all time largest number of races with a constructor' table after next season, behind only Schumacher (Ferrari), Coulthard (McLaren) and Massa (Ferrari).



#457 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:59

Do you have some figures to prove that Hamilton has improved the brand of Mercedes? The only recent data I've seen is the Autosport Fan Survey which is why I said I couldn't see any positive correlation between Hamilton joining and the brand of the team becoming more attractive. If you have something else then please share.

(All of this applies to Rosberg too of course)

It was pointed out by some German media outlets a few times. The Mercedes board is doing their own surveys and if the results are that Hamilton is making the brand 'cooler' then this might be a reason to pay him more, given that Mercedes is trying to achieve this image now for ages. It was also pointed out that Rosberg has some value as well regarding the oldtimer market.

Let's not forget Rosberg has been with Mercedes since 2010. That's six seasons already under his belt.

He will jump to 4th on the 'all time largest number of races with a constructor' table after next season, behind only Schumacher (Ferrari), Coulthard (McLaren) and Massa (Ferrari).

I do wonder if that is a reason which makes it more likely to stay or to leave. On the one side you can break records and have a lot trust already, on the other side 7-8 years are too long for a healthy relationship maybe.

-------

Generally its also not healthy to spend a lot time with the same team mate. We'll see when and who will leave. I think Rosbergs departure is more likely, especially as I cant see Hamilton anywhere else after Mercedes and given that Rosbergs contract is coincidentally expiring.

Edit: A LOT depends on who will win the championship next year imo.

Edited by Marklar, 05 December 2015 - 13:08.


#458 Riverside

Riverside
  • Member

  • 3,382 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 05 December 2015 - 13:37

 I am sure nothing makes the Mercedes board of directors happier than seeing Lewis drive/smash a super car that is not their own ... or say the LaFerrari.   Aside from the recent Mercedes commercials, when have we seen Lewis post a video / twitter / instagram that is Mercedes roadcar related?   I've seen Lewis's 2 Fords as well.    From a marketing point of view and branding for a company - helps if the person apparently there to change market perception uses the product......  :lol:



#459 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 13:51

I am sure nothing makes the Mercedes board of directors happier than seeing Lewis drive/smash a super car that is not their own

I think thats even better in this case that it is not their own :lol: :up:

He posted also several times pics of Mercedes cars, recently the Maybach, which Mercedes want to push again. Its for sure not that good that he appears with other cars as well, but if that is not hurting much and he is contributing in other more important areas, then they are fine with it.

He has definetely a certain value. I wouldnt pay for him 16m more than for Rosberg just because of the driving. Especially with the current car. It is suggested that he helps the image change. He is causing attention, has titles, and has a rabbid fandom (merchandise). Otherwise the board and the shareholders wouldnt had allowed this expensive extensions, unless they have the paranoida that they actually need Hamilton soon to really make the difference.

Advertisement

#460 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,966 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 05 December 2015 - 14:06

I am sure nothing makes the Mercedes board of directors happier than seeing Lewis drive/smash a super car that is not their own ... or say the LaFerrari. Aside from the recent Mercedes commercials, when have we seen Lewis post a video / twitter / instagram that is Mercedes roadcar related? I've seen Lewis's 2 Fords as well. From a marketing point of view and branding for a company - helps if the person apparently there to change market perception uses the product...... :lol:

He got done for hooning in a Merc.That alone gotta be worth heaps in street cred bragging rights.

#461 Riverside

Riverside
  • Member

  • 3,382 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 05 December 2015 - 14:13

 

He has definetely a certain value.  

 

 Oh, no doubt about that ...  Just if he's really there to bring over people to the brand - it would ideally be done differently.   Branding is very particular.   



#462 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 14:36

to bring over people to the brand

I think thats not even the point. Mercedes is struggling with their oldy image compare to Audi/BMW/Porsche. They are trying for ages to change it.

Nobody, except of crazy fans, would buy a Mercedes because of Hamilton, that is BS. But it changes your perception of a brand if certain people (even if you dont like them) with a certain character and a certain awareness are associated with the brand. Of course, if he would do very bad things in the publicy it can turn negative, but so far it isnt the case.

Rosberg for example is a perfect ambassador as such unlike Hamilton, but he is representing exactly the image Mercedes wants to get a rid off it. And he is relatively unknown as such and has a small fandom. Its a bit sad that we have to talk about those things, but it will have a big role when it comes to the point to decide who will leave. Rosbergs only advantage is his nationality and the fact that he is probably an easier person. A title would help a lot...

Edited by Marklar, 05 December 2015 - 14:37.


#463 Riverside

Riverside
  • Member

  • 3,382 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 05 December 2015 - 15:41

Nobody, except of crazy fans, would buy a Mercedes because of Hamilton, that is BS. But it changes your perception of a brand if certain people (even if you dont like them) with a certain character and a certain awareness are associated with the brand. Of course, if he would do very bad things in the publicy it can turn negative, but so far it isnt the case.

 

 

 It's my understanding that Merc is trying to change their marketing demographic without harming their prestige..... they have been doing that for ages.   They also put out several less expensive cars ... 



#464 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 15:44

 It's my understanding that Merc is trying to change their marketing demographic without harming their prestige..... they have been doing that for ages.   They also put out several less expensive cars ... 

Yep, exactly. It was one of the reasons why Mercedes even considered to cooperate with Red Bull...

 

Edit: It is not my personal opinion btw that Hamilton is really contributing to that. Its just what media outlets reporting with regards to the marketing effect of the drivers: Hamilton: young people, expensive luxury cars. Rosberg: Elegant and classic cars. The later was obviously never a problem..


Edited by Marklar, 05 December 2015 - 16:30.


#465 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,219 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 05 December 2015 - 17:05

Well I do think Hamilton refreshed Mercedes' image.

A few years ago I would never have considered buying a Merc, I just wasn't attracted or interested in that brand. I dreamt of McLarens or Ferraris but never Mercedes cars. As Marklar said, it was an old men brand.

Now I would consider it, if of course I lived in a parallel universe with that kind of money.

Then again, I am a biased Lewis fan. But I think there are many, many biased Lewis fans around the world.

#466 Peter Perfect

Peter Perfect
  • Member

  • 5,618 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 05 December 2015 - 17:45

Well I do think Hamilton refreshed Mercedes' image.

A few years ago I would never have considered buying a Merc, I just wasn't attracted or interested in that brand. I dreamt of McLarens or Ferraris but never Mercedes cars. As Marklar said, it was an old men brand.

Now I would consider it, if of course I lived in a parallel universe with that kind of money.

Then again, I am a biased Lewis fan. But I think there are many, many biased Lewis fans around the world.

 

A subject for another thread, but being influenced to buy (or not) a product based on a sports sponsorship or association always surprises me. It's something I've never really got my head around.



#467 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,219 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 05 December 2015 - 19:11

A subject for another thread, but being influenced to buy (or not) a product based on a sports sponsorship or association always surprises me. It's something I've never really got my head around.

 

Really? Why do you think Nike and Wilson sponsor Roger Federer? It's not just about exposure, it's about selling the shoes and tennis racquets. It's always been the case.



#468 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 14,507 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 December 2015 - 19:58

A subject for another thread, but being influenced to buy (or not) a product based on a sports sponsorship or association always surprises me. It's something I've never really got my head around.

 

Me neither. It might perhaps make me aware of a product that I didn't know about, but it wouldn't radically change my opinion; ie I wouldn't change from thinking that a Mercedes SLR is a boring old man's car to thinking it was an uber tempting Ferrari rival just because Lewis Hamilton (or anyone else) was driving for Merc's ostensibly unconnected F1 team. But then I don't hero worship these people; I was always a huge MS fan, but never felt the need to paint his mural on my wall or convince myself that he was an immensely gifted poet or NASA level physicist, I just enjoyed watching the guy drive an F1 car.

 

That said, it might, might  just sway me if I was right on the fence between two well matched products and a sportsperson I particularly keenly followed had close connections to one of them, but it hasn't happened yet.



#469 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 13,534 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:04

Me neither. It might perhaps make me aware of a product that I didn't know about, but it wouldn't radically change my opinion; ie I wouldn't change from thinking that a Mercedes SLR is a boring old man's car to thinking it was an uber tempting Ferrari rival just because Lewis Hamilton (or anyone else) was driving for Merc's ostensibly unconnected F1 team. But then I don't hero worship these people; I was always a huge MS fan, but never felt the need to paint his mural on my wall or convince myself that he was an immensely gifted poet or NASA level physicist, I just enjoyed watching the guy drive an F1 car.

 

That said, it might, might  just sway me if I was right on the fence between two well matched products and a sportsperson I particularly keenly followed had close connections to one of them, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

I think a lot of this sort of stuff comes down to sub conscious association...I mean Red Bull is a fizzy energy drink but it is thought of as cool for a multitude of reasons. I doubt anyone would say 'I bought a merc because lewis drives for merc' but it's perfectly possible it's a factor along with other things in making merc have a different sub conscious association that might make someone  more likely to buy a merc.



#470 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:06

Me neither. It might perhaps make me aware of a product that I didn't know about, but it wouldn't radically change my opinion; ie I wouldn't change from thinking that a Mercedes SLR is a boring old man's car to thinking it was an uber tempting Ferrari rival just because Lewis Hamilton (or anyone else) was driving for Merc's ostensibly unconnected F1 team. But then I don't hero worship these people; I was always a huge MS fan, but never felt the need to paint his mural on my wall or convince myself that he was an immensely gifted poet or NASA level physicist, I just enjoyed watching the guy drive an F1 car.

 

That said, it might, might  just sway me if I was right on the fence between two well matched products and a sportsperson I particularly keenly followed had close connections to one of them, but it hasn't happened yet.

Its not necessarly about that. Mercedes has the problem that whatever they try with their cars everyone will call Mercedes a old man's manufactorer, even if the car isnt it. Beig associated with people/brands who are the complete opposite (e.g. Red Bull) might unconsciously break the barriere in the peoples head. Its the same like promoting products with different light or color effects, somehow it makes a difference.



#471 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 24,873 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:08

The topic is: Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change

 

That been discussed in a while, this topic has run its course 

 

PM a mod if there is anything new