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#1001 martinskive

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 19:36

The reports can be traced back to an interview with a Belgian Site (dhnet.be). http://www.dhnet.be/...570fdebf5b2d703

 

I cannot see anywhere that he says that they definitely wanted Vandoorne first. My guess would be that the site reporter most likely asked about Vandoorne (Belgian) and that the indicated that he was on the list of possibilities but had to be removed as he was unavailable. But thats boring and does not give a good headline and a story to sell.

 

Unfortunately a lot of important context is missed when they just give answers and not the original question, so it's highly open to interpretation. I imagine it would be different if he was talking to a Danish Site.  

This theory makes a lot of sense... Why hire a guy, tell him he has to perform well, anounse him, and then tell him he actually isnt wanted at all.



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#1002 Starchild

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 22:35

Why did Renault not choose Jean-Eric Vergne?  French and I believe just as strong as Magnussen.

8 million € is the answer...



#1003 Vettelari

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 23:38

Is Vergne still signed on with Ferrari? If so, maybe Ferrari weren't too keen on releasing him to Renault. Keeping JEV around as a back up would be a smart idea if they are as serious as they say about mounting a challenge to Merc this year. Just a thought.



#1004 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 02:36

Vergne as far as I know is still with Ferrar.

 

I think Magnussen is suddenly getting a little less recognition that he really deserve, he was taken from FR3.5 straight in to a Grandee team, he was good enough that dropping him or Button was a very very very difficult decision for McLaren. How he is suddenly the standard paydriver does not really match what he is supposed to be. He may not be as good as the hype, but until proven differently I think he is a very deserving driver in the field.

 

 

:cool:



#1005 TyreSmokeDownshift

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:50

Vergne as far as I know is still with Ferrar.

 

I think Magnussen is suddenly getting a little less recognition that he really deserve, he was taken from FR3.5 straight in to a Grandee team, he was good enough that dropping him or Button was a very very very difficult decision for McLaren. How he is suddenly the standard paydriver does not really match what he is supposed to be. He may not be as good as the hype, but until proven differently I think he is a very deserving driver in the field.

 

 

:cool:

That'll just be some casual fans and certain fanboys distorting the facts and employing the 'age before youth' mantra (which is a bit like an aerosol, it can be extremely volatile if handled incorrectly - trust me, I had a tutor at university that was pretty much the mishandled mantra in a nutshell).

 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not aligned to any driver, I just like seeing unproven talent get their chance (unless they did poorly in feeder series and are only getting in by the size of their wallets). 



#1006 Slackbladder

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:54

Vergne as far as I know is still with Ferrar.

 

I think Magnussen is suddenly getting a little less recognition that he really deserve, he was taken from FR3.5 straight in to a Grandee team, he was good enough that dropping him or Button was a very very very difficult decision for McLaren. How he is suddenly the standard paydriver does not really match what he is supposed to be. He may not be as good as the hype, but until proven differently I think he is a very deserving driver in the field.

 

 

:cool:

 

Magnussen deserves a good chance. Both him and Perez were chewed up and spit out by Mclaren in a pretty unfair way.



#1007 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:19

Vergne as far as I know is still with Ferrar.

I think Magnussen is suddenly getting a little less recognition that he really deserve, he was taken from FR3.5 straight in to a Grandee team, he was good enough that dropping him or Button was a very very very difficult decision for McLaren. How he is suddenly the standard paydriver does not really match what he is supposed to be. He may not be as good as the hype, but until proven differently I think he is a very deserving driver in the field.


:cool:



I don't think anyone is writing him off as a 'paydriver', but whilst acknowledging that he's a good driver who deserves another chance, you must acknowledge that he got another chance because he has a lot of sponsorship.

#1008 Mrlarsen

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:23

8 million € is the answer...

Dont be stupid.....



#1009 noikeee

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:07

I don't think anyone is writing him off as a 'paydriver', but whilst acknowledging that he's a good driver who deserves another chance, you must acknowledge that he got another chance because he has a lot of sponsorship.

 

This. I'm not sure there was any better driver available, beyond Vergne, and I rate Vergne pretty much the same as Magnussen. They've got a really similar career actually - both did great in FR3.5, got a shot at F1 and were screwed by being beaten by extremely good team-mates, despite not being far from them. I think Magnussen would always be on Renault's shortlist if they were to give the seat to the most talented driver available, but it's pretty naive to think a couple of millions weren't a factor. I think what happened is that Magnussen was lucky that he was raising this sponsorship to try to get a Manor seat, and this came in extremely handy when a Renault opportunity suddenly opened up.

 

 

Either way what's a "paydriver" anyway? We're seeing more and more good drivers raise sponsorship packages. The extreme example was Alonso's move to Ferrari being paid by Santander, but we've got other more conventional "paydrivers" that are pretty good in F1. Sergio Perez comes to mind as the perfect example, Felipe Nasr isn't a bad driver neither, and even forum favourite Kamui Kobayashi paid for his seat at Caterham 2 years ago. To some extent every single driver was a paydriver at some stage, it costs millions to get yourself to F1 these days, the difference is where the funding comes from and how the driver is perceived to be. Of course there's subtle differences, one thing is a Maldonado paying absurd amounts of money to retain a seat that wouldn't have been his for years; or a Yamamoto type driver that is totally incompetent and wouldn't have been anywhere near F1 except for his money; another is a driver being funded throughout his career by a manufacturer or top team who believes in his talent, like we're going to see for example with Wehrlein now at Manor. The former is deemed a paydriver, the latter usually isn't called it that way. But both are paying for a F1 seat. Magnussen's status at the moment would fall somewhere in between. He's no longer being funded by a team in hopes he'll be a champion (like he was with McLaren), but he's not really that kind of driver that is being given completely undeserved breaks due to his money.



#1010 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:22

This. I'm not sure there was any better driver available, beyond Vergne, and I rate Vergne pretty much the same as Magnussen. They've got a really similar career actually - both did great in FR3.5, got a shot at F1 and were screwed by being beaten by extremely good team-mates, despite not being far from them. I think Magnussen would always be on Renault's shortlist if they were to give the seat to the most talented driver available, but it's pretty naive to think a couple of millions weren't a factor. I think what happened is that Magnussen was lucky that he was raising this sponsorship to try to get a Manor seat, and this came in extremely handy when a Renault opportunity suddenly opened up.

 

 

Either way what's a "paydriver" anyway? We're seeing more and more good drivers raise sponsorship packages. The extreme example was Alonso's move to Ferrari being paid by Santander, but we've got other more conventional "paydrivers" that are pretty good in F1. Sergio Perez comes to mind as the perfect example, Felipe Nasr isn't a bad driver neither, and even forum favourite Kamui Kobayashi paid for his seat at Caterham 2 years ago. To some extent every single driver was a paydriver at some stage, it costs millions to get yourself to F1 these days, the difference is where the funding comes from and how the driver is perceived to be. Of course there's subtle differences, one thing is a Maldonado paying absurd amounts of money to retain a seat that wouldn't have been his for years; or a Yamamoto type driver that is totally incompetent and wouldn't have been anywhere near F1 except for his money; another is a driver being funded throughout his career by a manufacturer or top team who believes in his talent, like we're going to see for example with Wehrlein now at Manor. The former is deemed a paydriver, the latter usually isn't called it that way. But both are paying for a F1 seat. Magnussen's status at the moment would fall somewhere in between. He's no longer being funded by a team in hopes he'll be a champion (like he was with McLaren), but he's not really that kind of driver that is being given completely undeserved breaks due to his money.

 

I agree with all of that, I do not agree with Jonnycraig37 he got the chance because of sponsorship, he was also Haas second choice after Grosjean another indication that he is seen as a very competent driver, which more than 1 team are willing to have in their cars.

 

:cool:



#1011 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:30

I agree with all of that, I do not agree with Jonnycraig37 he got the chance because of sponsorship, he was also Haas second choice after Grosjean another indication that he is seen as a very competent driver, which more than 1 team are willing to have in their cars.

:cool:


Except Grosjean brings funding too....

It's not a negative against Magnusson, but it is a pretty simple fact that as well as being a good young driver, the funding he's brought Renault played a part in his signing.

#1012 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:35

Except Grosjean brings funding too....

It's not a negative against Magnusson, but it is a pretty simple fact that as well as being a good young driver, the funding he's brought Renault played a part in his signing.

 

You wrote 'because', it is not because it is part of the package for any driver entering F1.

 

As Noikeee correctly wrote Alonso to Ferrari included Santander paying an absolute fortune, would Ferrari have taken him regardless? Yes they would, but getting and a few hundred millions does not make it less enticing. Would Magnussen have gotten the Renault seat without Jack & Jones? I don't know, you don't know, I think he would, you appear to think he would not.

 

:cool:



#1013 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:52

How long is KMag signed to Renault for?



#1014 Marklar

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:55

According to Autosport multiple years

#1015 jcbc3

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 13:58

Danish report I saw said 1 yesr and 1 year team option.



#1016 Marklar

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 14:00

You wrote 'because', it is not because it is part of the package for any driver entering F1.

As Noikeee correctly wrote Alonso to Ferrari included Santander paying an absolute fortune, would Ferrari have taken him regardless? Yes they would, but getting and a few hundred millions does not make it less enticing. Would Magnussen have gotten the Renault seat without Jack & Jones? I don't know, you don't know, I think he would, you appear to think he would not.

:cool:

Swiss media suggested that Renault choosed Magnussen at least over Buemi because of the money. But who knows.

#1017 messy

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 14:05

I do think the fact Vergne doesn't bring funding meant he wasn't any competition for the Renault drive to Magnussen - but if they both brought the same amount of funding then I reckon Magnussen would still have been the more attractive option. I rate JEV, but he didn't always do himself any favours at STR with his mental fragility and struggles to pick himself up when things started going Ricciardo's way. Take 2013 - he started the season on great form, got sixth in Canada, was suddenly being talked about as the frontrunner for the Red Bull drive - then bang, misfortune, frustration, woe as Ricciardo picked up and started banging in the results. That, coupled with no money = no chance. 

 

I do think the two are fairly evenly matched on potential.



#1018 sopa

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 14:25

I do think the fact Vergne doesn't bring funding meant he wasn't any competition for the Renault drive to Magnussen - but if they both brought the same amount of funding then I reckon Magnussen would still have been the more attractive option. I rate JEV, but he didn't always do himself any favours at STR with his mental fragility and struggles to pick himself up when things started going Ricciardo's way. Take 2013 - he started the season on great form, got sixth in Canada, was suddenly being talked about as the frontrunner for the Red Bull drive - then bang, misfortune, frustration, woe as Ricciardo picked up and started banging in the results. That, coupled with no money = no chance. 

 

I do think the two are fairly evenly matched on potential.

 

Magnussen also didn't deliver in late 2014, when the pressure was on.

 

Overall I tend to agree with those that these two guys (KMag & JEV) may roughly be on a similar talent level.



#1019 martinskive

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 14:49

According to Autosport multiple years

 

 
Do you have a link to the article stating this? Cant find anything substantial on the subject, and Magnussens own reply as to how long it is..... well...
 
 
 
The reporters exact queastion was ; What kind of contract have you signed.... how long is it  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Edited by martinskive, 09 February 2016 - 15:10.


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#1020 Vettelari

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 16:24

If funding were not an issue I think that we would be talking about Buemi's return to F1 right now, to be honest. He has improved dramatically in the last few years. I rate him really high.



#1021 Marklar

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 16:31

 

 
Do you have a link to the article stating this? Cant find anything substantial on the subject, and Magnussens own reply as to how long it is..... well...
 
 
 
The reporters exact queastion was ; What kind of contract have you signed.... how long is it  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I thought it was in the report when Autosport broked the news that Maldonado has lost his drive, but maybe I misread it or they edited the article.

 

Looks like 1+1 is right based on that picture :up: :lol:



#1022 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 20:04

I thought it was in the report when Autosport broked the news that Maldonado has lost his drive, but maybe I misread it or they edited the article.

 

Looks like 1+1 is right based on that picture :up: :lol:

 

That's fine, Renault can have many choices for 2017.

 

Maybe Raikkonen will be available for a comeback to Enstone!  :love:  :D


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 09 February 2016 - 20:04.


#1023 martinskive

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 20:14

That's fine, Renault can have many choices for 2017.

 

Maybe Raikkonen wthar be available for a comeback to Enstone!  :love:  :D

With what Räikkönen has shown the last couple of years, and with Renault already talking about Alonso, I would call that a longshot!



#1024 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 20:31

That's fine, Renault can have many choices for 2017.

 

Maybe Raikkonen will be available for a comeback to Enstone!  :love:  :D

 

He can finally be the new Maldonado :clap:



#1025 Starchild

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:17

can someone explain this?

http://www.formula1....ship/teams.html

renault - podium finishes - 20, championship title - n/a  :confused: 

first team entry - 1986 :confused:



#1026 7MGTEsup

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:37

can someone explain this?

http://www.formula1....ship/teams.html

renault - podium finishes - 20, championship title - n/a  :confused:

first team entry - 1986 :confused:

 

Because they started out as Benetton?



#1027 Exb

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:37

Doesn't explain the 0 titles though :(

 

in fact the whole thing doesn't make sense - highest race finish - 1st (x2) and the fact the year by year info only goes back to 2012 - suggests they are only looking at the past few years for results???


Edited by Exb, 10 February 2016 - 16:45.


#1028 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:39

Because they started out as Benetton?

 

They most certainly did not, entered as a Manufacturer first time in 1977.

 

:cool:



#1029 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:43

They most certainly did not, entered as a Manufacturer first time in 1977.

 

:cool:

Renault or the team based at Enstone? 



#1030 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:44

Even if we just count the 'Renault' years, how do 2005 and 2006 not count? 



#1031 7MGTEsup

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:46

They most certainly did not, entered as a Manufacturer first time in 1977.

 

:cool:

 

I know their first stint was from 77 to 85 but just thought they must be talking about Enstone.


Edited by 7MGTEsup, 10 February 2016 - 16:47.


#1032 Starchild

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:48

Benetton moved to Enstone in 1992. Before that they were based in Witney...



#1033 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 16:59

And Benetton just bought Toleman in 1986. The team started in 1981.

#1034 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 17:30

Renault or the team based at Enstone? 

 

Renault is Renault, 1977 it is.

 

:cool: