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Red Bull Racing-TAG Heuer RB12


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:34

Breaking news: Red Bull will be powered by a Tag Heuer engine next season. Full story soon.

 

Didn't see that one coming, watch company branding an engine  :eek:



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#2 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:35

We're driving forward with @TAGHeuer power in 2016! More win.gs/TAGHeuer #DontCrackUnderPressure #F1

CVXyyucWwAAix2l.jpg



#3 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:38

http://www.infiniti-...ming-everything

 

The new partnership, which represents a shift away from F1's conventional supply systems, will see TAG Heuer take up naming rights of the team's power unit, which will be supplied by Renault. The new car will be christened the Red Bull Racing-TAG Heuer RB12.



#4 DevilsCry

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:42

Chassis by an energy drink company.

Engine by a watch maker.

 

:drunk:



#5 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:42

How odd  :confused:

 

Infiniti stays.  Surely Renault/Nissan are not pleased about this arrangement.  Surely they would prefer a renault or Nissan or Infiniti brand!?  :confused:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 04 December 2015 - 09:44.


#6 Marklar

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:43

Recently every news feels like it is 1st april...

#7 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:43

'@RenaultSportF1 also gets technical help orchestrated by @redbullracing which will in turn help the works team. A win-win?

A very clever marketing move by @redbullracing and @TAGHeuer, and @RenaultSportF1 happy too as they still get a pile of $$$

Risk for @TAGHeuer is that there might be a few jokes if the V6 stops ticking (or runs slow). BRM did Rotary Watches no favours in 1977!



#8 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:44

#F1 As long as I'm not invited to the Tag Heuer engine factory we will keep on calling it Red Bull Renault. Deal with it! #AMuS



#9 Marklar

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:45

"Ron wont be happy" - Jupp, agree Christian....

Edited by Marklar, 04 December 2015 - 09:47.


#10 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:46

"Rom wont be happy" - Jupp, agree Christian....

 

 

Rom - Robs evil cousin 



#11 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:46

@adamcooperF1 The words 'Red Bull' and 'Tag' have long been associated with engineering masterpieces, of course

 

CVXzhNOWUAAl8Qo.jpg



#12 RedBaron

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:48

Chassis by an energy drink company.

Engine by a watch maker.

 

:drunk:

 

 

Haha, on the surface yeh. Tag aren't new to this:

 

tag-tte-po1-1-5-v6-turbo.jpg



#13 RedBaron

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:52

Rom - Robs evil cousin

 
 
Rob? There's a Rob too? 
 
He already has a twin, I exposed this a while back. Now he has a cousin too?
 

ron_and_dennis.jpg
 
That's Ron on the right and Dennis on the left. Identical twins, little known fact. Dennis normally stays out the way, he's a little slower. Ron's pretty notorious.


Rom, Rob, Dennis and Ron.


Edited by RedBaron, 04 December 2015 - 09:54.


#14 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:54

If you are wondering what's behind the @TAGHeuer deal check this out. They want to take on Apple...: uk.businessinsider.com/the-tag-heuer-…?



#15 Marklar

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:56

Oh c'mmon, this must be a joke

#16 RedBaron

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:56

 

If you are wondering what's behind the @TAGHeuer deal check this out. They want to take on Apple...: uk.businessinsider.com/the-tag-heuer-…?

 

 

They already tried phones, that didn't go too well. 

 

tag-heuer-link-stainless-steel-brown-all



#17 Petroltorque

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:01

They want to take on Apple. Have any of you bought a Tag recently? Shocking quality and appalling service. Ron will indeed be unhappy

#18 BobbyRicky

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:09

They want to take on Apple. Have any of you bought a Tag recently? Shocking quality and appalling service. Ron will indeed be unhappy

 

The same can be said about Apple as well.



#19 muramasa

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:09

 

Fantastic indeed that all parties remain in F1 and everything settled, but I have to say I'm not a fan of these sorts of marketing ploy. :well:



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#20 FPV GTHO

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:13

How odd :confused:

Infiniti stays. Surely Renault/Nissan are not pleased about this arrangement. Surely they would prefer a renault or Nissan or Infiniti brand!? :confused:


It's possible between now and Melbourne Infiniti will drop as naming rights sponsor

#21 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:18

Ok, now a new power unit with new brand. Will they receive 15 tokens because of their first year??? Rules are the same for every team. Aren't they?   ;)


Edited by RYARLE, 04 December 2015 - 10:19.


#22 YoungGun

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:19

It's possible between now and Melbourne Infiniti will drop as naming rights sponsor

 

I thought that was obvious by the new name "Red Bull Racing-TAG Heuer RB12". So in the end it's a Renault/Ilmor technical partnership, one development path with a little marketing sizzle tossed in?



#23 Massa_f1

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:21

I can't see the point in this move to be honest, At the end of the day it is a Renault engine, and will surely have to be the same as the works Renault engine?



#24 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:25

I can't see the point in this move to be honest, At the end of the day it is a Renault engine, and will surely have to be the same as the works Renault engine?

 

No other option available in the end, and getting out of F1 probably proved to be too costly considering deals with FOM. 

 

And for the last part, I would not bet against regulations being modified enough so Red Bull can have their own development team on their Tag Heuer branded Renault engines. I think there's been quite a bit of behind the curtain-talks last 6 months. 



#25 Timstr11

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:25

I can't see the point in this move to be honest, At the end of the day it is a Renault engine, and will surely have to be the same as the works Renault engine?

 

The point is Tag Heuer paying RBR's Renault engine bill

Around 25 Million Euro per annum.



#26 stewie

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:25

I can't see the point in this move to be honest, At the end of the day it is a Renault engine, and will surely have to be the same as the works Renault engine?

Ah yes but if the engine is cr@p next year, Renault won't get publicly slagged off like they did this year. To causual fans it'll be a rubbish Tag engine.

#27 SophieB

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:27

Tobias Grüner @tgruener

#F1 As long as I'm not invited to the Tag Heuer engine factory we will keep on calling it Red Bull Renault. Deal with it! #AMuS


This reminds of that episode of Blackadder where Edmund goes out of his way to say 'Macbeth' to annoy the superstitious actors.

"RED BULL RENAULT!"

"ARRRRGHHH"

#28 UraNage

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:28

I can't see the point in this move to be honest, At the end of the day it is a Renault engine, and will surely have to be the same as the works Renault engine?

no one of them care about 2016 , renault and redbull already said its transitional year , this saga won't end 

Everything is open for 2017 and C Horner is still eyeing Honda, while the alternative engine is not dead yet...

 

so honda come good its 100% RBR-honda for 2017 , honda not so good and illmor+renault realy deliver a world beater they will continue , thats what i think



#29 Timstr11

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:32

No other option available in the end, and getting out of F1 probably proved to be too costly considering deals with FOM. 

 

And for the last part, I would not bet against regulations being modified enough so Red Bull can have their own development team on their Tag Heuer branded Renault engines. I think there's been quite a bit of behind the curtain-talks last 6 months. 

 

No.

 

That's not in the rules and it will not be in the rules and even if it was in the rules, Renault is not going give their engine to Redbull.

 

Tag Heuer are just sponsoring Redbull equivalent to the size of what they have to pay Renault for supplying the engine.

 

The supply deal is presumably for 2016, so RBR still have got work to do to secure an engine deal beyond 2016.



#30 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:39

When we hear that Ilmor have started to work on powerunit, it shows that RedBull are going to have their powerunit forever. Anyway Honda won't give the original powerunit to RedBull as did Mercedes and Ferrari, So the most reasonable thing for RedBull to do is having their own powerunit.


Edited by RYARLE, 04 December 2015 - 10:39.


#31 GSiebert

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:41

Tag Heuer doesn't even make its own watch calibers so it's fitting they'd just rebrand an engine.


Edited by GSiebert, 04 December 2015 - 10:41.


#32 statman

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:48

Strange situation.

 

  • So everyone knows it's a Renault engine.
  • Apparently Mario Illien is brought in to make changes and improve the engine
  • Renault dismissed these changes earlier in the season and decided to go with it's own design and failed miserably in Brazil
  • Assume engine will improve
  • Red Bull beats the Enstone team now labeled as Renault with their own engine

 

How is that a positive for Renault?



#33 dweller23

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:49

What about Porsche engines in 83 and later, were they only rebranded as well? Or were they cocreated by TAG?



#34 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:51

The point is Tag Heuer paying RBR's Renault engine bill
Around 25 Million Euro per annum.

Except €25m is spare change to Red Bull, and they still don't have a competitive engine...

No matter how much tinsel they put on it, the simple fact is that RB thought (with good reason) that BE would be able to bend Merc/Ferraris arms into giving them their engines, and they've been left to crawl back to Renault with their tail between their legs.

Edited by Jonnycraig37, 04 December 2015 - 10:53.


#35 Petroltorque

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:53

I don't know where this Ilien developed engine ever came from. Ilien did an analysis on the present Renault PU. He suggested some changes that Renault evaluated and had no improvement. As has been stated the Tag Heuer deal is paying for the Renault unit. Having lost the Infinity and Total backing Red Bull must still be down on the deal. As for Tag Heuer I could tell you some stories about their recent time pieces that would make you churn. Like charging £150 for a service on a quartz time piece when all it needs is a battery change. Keeping your watch for 2 months and returning it unrepaired. I could go on but it's OT.

#36 4wheels

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:56

I don't know where this Ilien developed engine ever came from. Ilien did an analysis on the present Renault PU. He suggested some changes that Renault evaluated and had no improvement. As has been stated the Tag Heuer deal is paying for the Renault unit. Having lost the Infinity and Total backing Red Bull must still be down on the deal. As for Tag Heuer I could tell you some stories about their recent time pieces that would make you churn. Like charging £150 for a service on a quartz time piece when all it needs is a battery change. Keeping your watch for 2 months and returning it unrepaired. I could go on but it's OT.

 

“TAG Heuer and Red Bull are two transcendent brands which have both a passion for racing and a drive to do things differently, and this unique collaboration is further evidence of that,” said Red Bull team boss Christian Horner.

“TAG Heuer has been an icon in the world of Formula One for many years and we’re delighted that they’ve chosen to continue their association with the sport by teaming up with us.

“Our shared values of innovation and a desire to stand out from the crowd make this one of the most exciting partnerships in F1.

“We are also pleased to see Renault confirm its long-term commitment to F1 and would like to thank them for their contribution to the team since 2007.

Their technical partnership with Ilmor gives us confidence, and we look forward to the 2016 season.”



#37 Jovanotti

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:23

Quartz or Automatic?

#38 Petroltorque

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:23

We'll see just how much of a 'technical collaboration ' exists since the two parties seem at Loggerheads.

#39 statman

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:28

http://www.motorspor...k-f1-progress//

 

From a couple of weeks ago, Cyril speaks about Mario Illien



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#40 GhostR

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:33

We'll see just how much of a 'technical collaboration ' exists since the two parties seem at Loggerheads.

 

Cyril recently backed down from the previous head-in-the-sand we-know-what-we're-doing so GTFO of our business stance, and basically admitted that the Renault factory needs help sharpish from outside. Various comments recently from both sides indicates that Renault are now willing to admit that Illien's ideas were, in fact, better than theirs and they are going to switch over to the Illien development path for 2016. It's just a shame it took them throwing away 7 tokens at Brazil to figure it out (possibly 11 if the Turbo changes were lodged in full despite not being used).


Edited by GhostR, 04 December 2015 - 11:33.


#41 JeePee

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:41

Hoping the Toro Rosso chassis is again sort of a match with the RB12. My feeling says the 2015 Ferrari will be more powerful than the 2016 Re... TAG Heuer. A fight to look forward to.



#42 ch103

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:47

It is still a Renault engine.



#43 FullThrottleF1

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:49

The engine will be factory level: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122130



#44 pdac

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:50

no one of them care about 2016 , renault and redbull already said its transitional year , this saga won't end 

 

Oddly enough, before the 2015 season McLaren and Honda were saying, in effect, it was a transiitional year.Turned out everyone did care.



#45 pdac

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:52

Ah yes but if the engine is cr@p next year, Renault won't get publicly slagged off like they did this year. To causual fans it'll be a rubbish Tag engine.

 

I'm sure someone is going to say "it's the TAG engine, built by Renault" or "It's the same Renault engine that the works team are using". I don't think the rebrand will fool anyone.

 

Edit: Actually, if the engine turns out to be good, what will happen is TAG will get the credit.


Edited by pdac, 04 December 2015 - 11:54.


#46 Marklar

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:52

How are the odds that Marko will stil complain about the Renault engine in 2016?

#47 Maustinsj

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:53

About 1:1



#48 robdin

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:53

What about Porsche engines in 83 and later, were they only rebranded as well? Or were they cocreated by TAG?

 

The 80's engines were paid for by engineering firm TAG (not the watchmaker!) and developed by Porsche. Later TAG the engineering company and TAG Heuer the watchmaker merged and split up again but it is safe to say that only the name is the same.

 

As for all the people that are confused about Renault's position in this deal you have to keep in mind that Renault/Carlos Ghosn does not want the Renault name to be associated with Red Bull and therefore Red Bull is free to name the engine whatever they like. Inifiniti or Nissan might have been more logical but I suspect also to close to the Renault brand for Renault to feel comfortable with it. And because of the difference in naming it doesn't really matters if Renault is beaten by Red Bull. We hardcore fans know that they have the same engine (as ordered by the FIA) but the average Joe who's just watching a race will not. And sponsors go to F1 to capture the attention of the average Joe's and not of the hardcore fans.



#49 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:54

The engine will be factory level: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122130

Only at the start, though?

Will they get the same upgrades or will they now go down completely different development paths?

Would be interesting if they basically use 2016 as a test bed for different engine upgrades using two different teams.

Edited by Seanspeed, 04 December 2015 - 11:55.


#50 UraNage

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 11:56

It is still a Renault engine.

EqQOTR9.jpg