61 replies to this topic

[ardbeg]

Read this interview with Mika:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122178

From the text:
 

 

He made one more appearance in contemporary F1 machinery, testing for McLaren in November 2006.

However, he ended that day slowest of the 18 cars in action and three seconds off the pace

 

This hardly unique in F1, in most top level sports it is very difficult to come back. The spark is difficult to reignite I guess.

Are there any successful "returns" in F1?

[Nathan]

Prost and Lauda jump to mind.  Each took one and two seasons off respectively and came back to win a championship.

Edited by Nathan, 07 December 2015 - 20:00.

[Spillage]

Niki Lauda is the most well-known, and probably the most successful. Retired mid-season 1979 after becoming fed up with Brabham and was tempted back by Ron Dennis in 1982. Won his third race back and went on to take the 1984 world title. A ballsy and nowadays rather underrated driver.

 

EDIT: Well, perhaps Fangio was more successful. Missed most of 1952 with a broken neck, but returned to win four consecutive titles from 1954-1957 - but that's a comeback after an injury, rather than a self-imposed hiatus, so it might not be what you're looking for.

Edited by Spillage, 07 December 2015 - 20:02.

[Risil]

Jacques Villeneuve took an enforced sabbatical in 2004. It would be a stretch to call anything he did with Sauber a success, although he was more or less on the same level as he had been in the latter BAR years.

 

And Kimi Raikkonen (who?). Two years out, but extremely strong driving the Lotus-Renault in 2012 and '13.

Edited by Risil, 07 December 2015 - 20:06.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Raikkonen indeed, was even stronger than when he left F1.

[Collombin]

Maurice Trintignant's obituary was published in 1948. He came back to win the Monaco GP twice.

[chunder27]

Alan Jones went and came back though not that well.

Mario Andretti came back in 82 and stick a Ferrari on pole at Monza.

 

Mansell came back in 94 to win in Adelaide.

[karl100589]

If we count other disciplines outside of F1 Emerson Fittipaldi returning to motor racing after four years away to win two Indy 500's and an Indycar championship would have to be up there.

[Dan333SP]

Read this interview with Mika:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122178

From the text:
 

 

This hardly unique in F1, in most top level sports it is very difficult to come back. The spark is difficult to reignite I guess.

Are there any successful "returns" in F1?

 

This is a bit of a tangent, but I'd completely forgotten that Mika went to DTM for a few years and won a handful of races.

 

I looked through DTM results from the last few years, and I'm reminded just how many F1 race veterans move over to that series. Alesi, Coulthard, Glock, Mika, Ralf, Schneider, ect. Who knew DTM adopted DRS recently as well? I should download some of those races and watch them.

[Dan333SP]

Also, not F1 but Montoya's return to IndyCar has been a lot more successful than many people expected, myself included. He'd be champion minus a little bump 'n grind with his teammate at Sonoma. Sure, he didn't really take off per se, but driving stock cars is nothing like an open wheeler so he wasn't exactly in good practice.

 

No one has mentioned MSC. I know he didn't win any races and had a single lucky podium, but I'd still call his '10-'12 return a success in that he wasn't outclassed, he had a memorable pole at Monaco, and he helped develop the car into a race-winning machine. I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but I think Merc's rise is in a very small part due to MSC coming back.

[karl100589]

Also, not F1 but Montoya's return to IndyCar has been a lot more successful than many people expected, myself included. He'd be champion minus a little bump 'n grind with his teammate at Sonoma. Sure, he didn't really take off per se, but driving stock cars is nothing like an open wheeler so he wasn't exactly in good practice.

 

No one has mentioned MSC. I know he didn't win any races and had a single lucky podium, but I'd still call his '10-'12 return a success in that he wasn't outclassed, he had a memorable pole at Monaco, and he helped develop the car into a race-winning machine. I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but I think Merc's rise is in a very small part due to MSC coming back.

 

Glad to see someone mention this. Yes Michael wasn't the dominator he was in his first career, but he was a 42 year old man competing against men half his age and showing flashes of how great he was and could be at times, I would actually put Canada 2011 up as one of his all time best race performances. The one thing that I was most taken by was his starts, in his three years back he made more places at the start then any other driver, which is incredibly ironic considering the rep he got in his first career for weaving and blocking off the line.

[Dan333SP]

Glad to see someone mention this. Yes Michael wasn't the dominator he was in his first career, but he was a 42 year old man competing against men half his age and showing flashes of how great he was and could be at times, I would actually put Canada 2011 up as one of his all time best race performances. The one thing that I was most taken by was his starts, in his three years back he made more places at the start then any other driver, which is incredibly ironic considering the rep he got in his first career for weaving and blocking off the line.

 

I was there and I can't tell you how pissed I was that he lost a podium at that race. That's when DRS went from being a novelty to a nuisance as he was eaten alive with just a couple laps left. I did get this picture of him hounding the heir to his throne before losing 2nd-

 

[YoungGun]

Surely Luca Bradoer deserves an honorable mention?

[DampMongoose]

Alex Wurz.

[MustangSally]

There are a few who made a comeback for one or two races, but it didn't work out.

 

I remember John Watson doing a race for McLaren back in the eighties . . . it was at Brands. He was a bit embarrassing.

 

De La Rosa's deputised a few times after a layoff, with more success.

 

Kovalainen had a go at resurrecting his career at Lotus.

 

It's obviously not easy . . . 

Edited by MustangSally, 07 December 2015 - 22:14.

[Lights]

Read this interview with Mika:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122178

From the text:

He made one more appearance in contemporary F1 machinery, testing for McLaren in November 2006.

However, he ended that day slowest of the 18 cars in action and three seconds off the pace

 

This hardly unique in F1, in most top level sports it is very difficult to come back. The spark is difficult to reignite I guess.

Are there any successful "returns" in F1?

 

*three seconds off Badoer

 

I refuse to believe that even then Hakkinen was so much slower than a driver like Badoer.

 

It's just testing.

[messy]

Schumacher's comeback wasn't bad in hindsight. Everyone expected a return to winning ways given he was jumping into the reigning WCC team and reuniting with Ross Brawn with the might of Mercedes Benz behind him, but he was a 42 year old who we were used to seeing dominate, it was never going to be easy to impress anybody.

2010 was ropy. 2011 was good. In the races he regularly outpaced Rosberg, although he was usually a few tenths off his qualifying pace. In 2012 he achieved something often overlooked - he regained his qualifying speed and often qualified in the top three, but that car was so quirky on its tyres and unreliable. It was a shame. I wanted him to win another race as much as anybody.

Raikkonen at Lotus 2012 and 2013 was superb, but I do think Michael was similarly strong in 2011 - the car wasn't close enough to the lead pace to show it.

Going back a bit, Prost and Lauda come to mind, both winning the championship after time out.

[Nathan]

 

Surely Luca Bradoer deserves an honorable mention?

For being so poor?  We should honorably forget it.

[Dan333SP]

*three seconds off Badoer

 

I refuse to believe that even then Hakkinen was so much slower than a driver like Badoer.

 

It's just testing.

 

I'm sure he wasn't, but based on interviews his heart just wasn't in it any more. He probably did a few laps and decided he was just going to enjoy the day rather than push for laptimes. If he really wanted to get back into F1, I'm sure he could have whittled the gap down to a few tenths or so. He wasn't that old in '06, especially compared to Michael in '10 who had no problem getting within a half second of Rosberg from the very beginning. It was that last half second, or sometimes less, that he just couldn't find consistently versus MSC 1.0 that was the real difference.

[PlatenGlass]

It's difficult to judge different drivers' comebacks relative to each other. Obviously you can look at their success, but that's different from how well the drivers drove. Take Lauda, Prost, Raikkonen, Schumacher. How would you rank their comebacks?

It might seem obvious that you'd put Lauda and Prost first and second in some order. But they also had the greatest opportunities. Lauda was outscored by his team-mate in three of the four years of his comeback (twice by Watson and once by Prost), and the one year he managed to outscore his team-mate (Prost), he was in a dominant car and did so despite being comprehensively outperformed by his team-mate.

Prost came back for one year into a very dominant car and with a very inexperienced team-mate (Hill), and still made a lot more of a meal of winning the title than he needed to.

So none of this demonstrates that Lauda and Prost were particularly great in their comebacks relative to anyone else.

Also, Raikkonen got a lot of praise for his comeback (the Lotus part) while Schumacher was getting a lot of flak. But I think a lot of people are rethinking their views in hindsight. Not only was Schumacher better than people originally thought (though still inconsistent and seemingly crashing into the back of another driver at Singapore on an annual basis), but Raikkonen was probably less impressive. He benefited a lot from Grosjean's inconsistency and there are several races you could point to where that Lotus should have won in 2012/13 if one of their drivers had nailed both qualifying and the race. I will point to some now: Bahrain - both years, Valencia 2012, Hungary - both years. If we're viewing Raikkonen's performances objectively rather than compared to others who made a comback, with his win rate, his performances cannot be rated as impressive.

[chunder27]

I dont think Prost made a meal of anything to be honest in 1993, the car was good, but nothing like as dominant as the 92 car!

 

Especially when he knew halfways through the year that Frank was going to sign Senna, something he expressly wrote into his contract. I don't blame him for stringing it out!

 

Besides Alain only had a year out unlike Lauda.

 

In my eyes, you still have to perform, Niki proved he could outrace and out think Alain, something Alain no doubt learned a little as it is what he consistently did to the majority of his team mates (including Senna most of the time) in his career.

[SPBHM]

Schumacher was pretty much retired I think, while Kimi continued as a rally driver, this probably made a difference, also, perhaps more difficult car and better teammate..

 

with the drivers from the past it's probably unfair to compare since they could test a lot more.

[Wheels23]

Liuzzi.

 

lol

 

Also Grosjean kind of in a way. 

[Otaku]

I dont think Prost made a meal of anything to be honest in 1993, the car was good, but nothing like as dominant as the 92 car!

 

Especially when he knew halfways through the year that Frank was going to sign Senna, something he expressly wrote into his contract. I don't blame him for stringing it out!

 

Besides Alain only had a year out unlike Lauda.

 

In my eyes, you still have to perform, Niki proved he could outrace and out think Alain, something Alain no doubt learned a little as it is what he consistently did to the majority of his team mates (including Senna most of the time) in his career.

 

It was every bit as dominant, if not even more. Won 10 races (same as the 14b), got 15 poles in 16 races and usually 1.5 to 2 seconds faster than the 1st non Williams car.

 

The 93 season was a walk in the park.

Edited by Otaku, 08 December 2015 - 00:11.

[sennafan24]

It was every bit as dominant, if not even more. Won 10 races (same as the 14b), got 15 poles in 16 races and usually 1.5 to 2 seconds faster than the 1st non Williams car.

 

The 93 season was a walk in the park.

Agreed.

 

All things being considered (age, sabbatical, motivation), Prost's 1993 campaign was decent. He did everything he needed to do. However, while the car did have some teething problems with set-up and reliability, it was still as dominant as the previous year. 

 

Also, Raikkonen got a lot of praise for his comeback (the Lotus part) 

Interesting, because I often hear the complete opposite. I read people say that the 2012 Lotus could have been a title contender in the hands of Alonso, Lewis or Seb. 

Edited by sennafan24, 08 December 2015 - 00:21.

[DarthWillie]

I think Lauda's comeback a bit overrated to be honest. In the years 82,83,84,85 he only finished once in front of his teammate. 1984, his championship winning year. With half a point.  Surely a good driver, but somehow his third championship owed more to luck than outperforming his teammate.

[Otaku]

Agreed.

 

All things being considered (age, sabbatical, motivation), Prost's 1993 campaign was decent. He did everything he needed to do. However, while the car did have some teething problems with set-up and reliability, it was still as dominant as the previous year. 

 

 

Yup, and if Damon would have driven all season like he did in the 2nd half, the championship would have been way closer than it was. I think Prost's season was average at best.

[Volcano70]

Alonso's testing year in 2002, look how he ended up

Not really a "Comeback" but a year off is a year off

[sennafan24]

 I think Prost's season was average at best.

To be fair to Alain:

 

He did seem to cruise in the 2nd half of the year. By around mid-season, he had a 20 point lead in the WDC. His nearest rival in the standings (Senna) was also going through a rough patch, as the upgrades on his car had not been fruitful, especially in relation to fuel consumption. 

 

With this in mind, Prost didn't need to fight for wins. To win the WDC, he just needed to play the percentage game and collect podiums. In a recent interview, he acknowledged his lack of motivation in the latter stages. There was no live threat to galvanize him. 

Edited by sennafan24, 08 December 2015 - 01:02.

[PlatenGlass]

To be fair to Alain:
 
He did seem to cruise in the 2nd half of the year. By around mid-season, he had a 20 point lead in the WDC. His nearest rival in the standings (Senna) was also going through a rough patch, as the upgrades on his car had not been fruitful, especially in relation to fuel consumption. 
 
With this in mind, Prost didn't need to fight for wins. To win the WDC, he just needed to play the percentage game and collect podiums. In a recent interview, he acknowledged his lack of motivation in the latter stages. There was no live threat to galvanize him.

He also struggled a bit early on. It came together for him when he won four rounds in a row from rounds 7 to 10. He spun off in the rain in Brazil. He was under no pressure and could have probably done a better job to tiptoe round to the pits. Then he had the Donington race where he pitted too much (could put the blame on the team) but also stalled the engine. He also stalled in Monaco exiting the pits from his jump start stop-go. He was behind Senna in the championship after 6 rounds.

[PlatenGlass]

I dont think Prost made a meal of anything to be honest in 1993, the car was good, but nothing like as dominant as the 92 car!
 
Especially when he knew halfways through the year that Frank was going to sign Senna, something he expressly wrote into his contract. I don't blame him for stringing it out!
 
Besides Alain only had a year out unlike Lauda.
 
In my eyes, you still have to perform, Niki proved he could outrace and out think Alain, something Alain no doubt learned a little as it is what he consistently did to the majority of his team mates (including Senna most of the time) in his career.

I don't think Lauda did really outrace or outthink Prost. He just got lucky!

I'm also not sure that I'd agree that Prost outraced Senna most of the time. In 1988 they were fairly close in the races overall (SennaFan24 might produce some analysis to disagree though!), but in 1989, Senna just had the bad luck. He was generally ahead. (Though I don't know if there's any truth in the rumours of Honda bias.)

[JacnGille]

...while Kimi continued as a rally driver,...

...and NASCAR Trucks and...

[Rob G]

How about Achille Varzi? He was a highly accomplished driver in pre-war Grands Prix until his career fell apart due to a morphine addiction. He kicked the habit during World War II and came back to racing, winning the very first Formula 1 race, at Turin in 1946. He won or finished second in numerous other F1 races in 1947, but he was killed during practice for the 1948 Swiss Grand Prix.

[sennafan24]

 In 1988 they were fairly close in the races overall (SennaFan24 might produce some analysis to disagree though!), but in 1989, Senna just had the bad luck.

They were closer in 1988. But reliability decided a lot of their duels. 

 

Prost had more mechanical DNF's (2), and an apparent gearbox glitch at Japan. but Senna had more race-hindering issues overall (Oz, France, Brazil, Spain and Portugal). Overall, their luck was about even. The difference was that Senna played the game a bit better (best of 11), and finished ahead of Prost more often in straight fights. The only two races in 88 where Prost beat Senna on pure merit were Mexico and Monaco (the latter of course was because Senna binned it, but the onus fell on him for that). 

 

In 1989, it was 7-2 to Senna in races where reliability did not decide the result (Despite Prost's gearbox fault during the latter stages at Germany, I still count it as a Senna win. Prost only got track position due to a botched pit-stop,)

 

Edit: To be clear though. Prost did out-think Senna from time to time. Monaco 1988 was a key example of such an occasion. 

Edited by sennafan24, 08 December 2015 - 01:41.

[keeppari]

Interesting, because I often hear the complete opposite. I read people say that the 2012 Lotus could have been a title contender in the hands of Alonso, Lewis or Seb. 

 

Yes. But, alas, I heard that Seb can't win unless he has a superior car and starts from the pole. I also heard the 2012 Ferrari was actually the 6th best car on the grid despite finishing 2nd in the WCC by a comfortable margin. This was made possible only by the magic powers of a driver who also pulled of the amazing feat of finishing 17th in the WDC with the 9th best car in 2015. By following this train of logic thought, I can see why it's only reasonable to assume that Lewis with his aggressive driving style would've fared better by swapping his McLaren which won 7 races in 2012 for the Lotus which mainly gathered points through reliability and tyre preservation.

 

[MustangSally]

Whether Raikonnen 'could have done better', I think you would have to describe his comeback as successful. Allison gave him a glowing report. He was making far fewer mistakes than now. He impressed enough for Ferrari to rehire him.

 

Most people were sceptical about him regaining form. Williams didn't want the risk, Hakkinen counselled that he was washed up. (But I think Mika is not a fan anyway.)

 

JV's was probably the least successful. It took him a long time to find some pace. Sadly he was actually driving well at the time of BMW Sauber, but Theissen was determined to fire him anyway.

 

I guess you need a little indulgence to make a comeback. This was not afforded to Heidfeld, for example. Had he genuinely 'lost it' ?

[thiscocks]

 He also stalled in Monaco exiting the pits from his jump start stop-go.

Due to a clutch problem

[YoungGun]

For being so poor?  We should honorably forget it.

 

I think it would difficult for any driver to step up into a race seat after 10 years as a test driver, but in 1999 after being abscent from F1 for 3 years I was impressed he had that Miniradi up to 4th place before he had to retire.

[MustangSally]

I think it would difficult for any driver to step up into a race seat after 10 years as a test driver, but in 1999 after being abscent from F1 for 3 years I was impressed he had that Miniradi up to 4th place before he had to retire.

 

Fisi couldn't drive that car either. 

[noikeee]

Giacomelli. 10 years out of F1. Was successful in the sense he managed to not die of boredom in the time it took to complete a lap in that car.

[Knowlesy]

Mexico City.

[Scotracer]

I stand by Schumi's comeback. In the races he showed Rosberg a clean pair of heels in general and by 2012 resolved his qualifying woes.

 

If only Monaco 2012 and Canada 2011 had turned out a little different...

[Prost1997T]

Also, not F1 but Montoya's return to IndyCar has been a lot more successful than many people expected, myself included. He'd be champion minus a little bump 'n grind with his teammate at Sonoma. Sure, he didn't really take off per se, but driving stock cars is nothing like an open wheeler so he wasn't exactly in good practice.

 

Plenty of testing, and it took him all of 2014 to get up to speed on road\street courses. That said, he's been a lot more patient and methodical than people give him credit for.

[DampMongoose]

Mexico City.

 

Successful?

[messy]

 

I guess you need a little indulgence to make a comeback. This was not afforded to Heidfeld, for example. Had he genuinely 'lost it' ?

 

Never understood Heidfeld being ditched. He was going quite well in a pretty average car. At the time of his sacking he was ahead of Petrov in the points. 

 

I guess the team was still reeling after the loss of Kubica, but Enstone are usually better at giving their drivers time than that. Always wondered if something went on behind the scenes like with Frentzen in 2001 being ejected from Jordan after (reportedly) throwing a strop and threatening to take a hacksaw to his car.

[lustigson]

Nigel Mansell made a number of comebacks, even.

 

At least, he had announced his retirement a number of times.  

Edited by lustigson, 09 December 2015 - 08:04.

[midgrid]

Jan Lammers made a comeback for March in 1992, ten years after his previous drive, for ATS.

[MustangSally]

Never understood Heidfeld being ditched. 

 

I guess the team was still reeling after the loss of Kubica.

 

 

Heidfeld was struggling a little with qualifying but still a great race driver and hoovering up points as usual. (34) His replacement, Senna, scored precisely 2 points in the following eight races.

 

Boullier was not that supportive of his drivers and bad mouthed them at every opportunity. He even blamed Nick for the pit fire in Hungary, when the Lotus had the 'flamethrower' sideways exhaust. He didn't like Petrov either. 

[MustangSally]

Nigel Mansell made a number of comebacks, even.

 

At least, after he had announced his retirement.  

 

Mansell's win in Adelaide was, shall we say, a little lucky but not entirely undeserved. 

 

He needed to get a bit fitter and up to speed but could still go for it.

 

I read somewhere it was a short lived comeback with Williams mostly because Patrick Head couldn't tolerate the guy anymore. Since they had an option on Mansell for the following year, he was paid out. And then he flunked out at McLaren.

 

Anyway, this was also a very successful comeback since he became Britain's highest paid sportsman that year for not driving.

[noriaki]

How about Achille Varzi? He was a highly accomplished driver in pre-war Grands Prix until his career fell apart due to a morphine addiction. He kicked the habit during World War II and came back to racing, winning the very first Formula 1 race, at Turin in 1946. He won or finished second in numerous other F1 races in 1947, but he was killed during practice for the 1948 Swiss Grand Prix.

 

Being a foreigner, racing for the Silver Arrows teams in the 30's, retiring, making a post war return and becoming a Grand Prix winner again was a common thing back then. Louis Chiron retired voluntarily in '38 but had several victories in the late 40's and continued his career well into his fifties. Luigi Fagioli had the same story, he had to retire due to major health problems in '37 but as his health recovered, despite the over 10-year hiatus from racing he got hired by the dominant Alfa Romeo squad in 1950. Wasn't an opponent for Fangio and Farina anymore, but he became the oldest Grand Prix winner anyway!

 

Suppose you could also mention the Germans from the thirties, who were excluded from motor racing post-war - the 1939 European "champion" Hermann Lang, Paul Pietsch and Hans Stuck senior were modestly successful and got World Championship starts anyway (and Lang even won Le Mans), but the triple champion Caracciola's return to racing, including an Indy 500 attempt, was a bit more unfortunate and crippled with injuries.