46 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

In order to stop F1s downfall Paul Hembery suggested the following racing format today in the Guardian....
 

The new format would see three seasons within a season, with a separate series of races in Europe, the Americas and Australasia, with two meaningful breaks.

Hembery told the Guardian: “I will be talking to Bernie shortly about this. I haven’t worked out the logistical problems. It’s up to the teams to do that. But this is all about getting more interest in Formula One, and particularly in the Americas."

 

Under Hembery’s plan each continent, or series, would produce its own champion, leading towards an overall champion at the end of the year. The natural starting point would be Australia, as it is now, before moving to Asia. The circus would then transfer to Europe before finishing in the Americas, with rounds in Brazil, Mexico, Montreal and, Hembery hopes, California.

http://www.theguardi...re_iOSApp_Other

 

Well, if that´s the only problem....

 

Maybe it would help with regards to the logistic costs. Otherwise it could be pretty difficult to get the schedule together due to climatic reasons (think of Montreal for instance) and I dont know if it is such a good idea to interrup the season in a meaningfull way twice per season. I'm also not sure if that would really increase the interest for the sport....

Edited by Marklar, 11 December 2015 - 17:11.

[noikeee]

Sounds like something Bernie would say in the offseason to spark outraged comments and keep F1 in the news.

 

So either Paul's on a mandate from Bernie to do this, or he's lost his marbles because this is a **** idea with no advantages whatsoever.

[muramasa]

Rubbish. shorter the season is the less meaningful it gets. whatever it is about, quantitative approach is the absolute basic and qualitative analysis can only be possible with what you get with quantitative analysis. that's why we can guess or know and see what cannot be known or seen practically or proven for certain quantitatively for realistic reasons/limitations.

 

Championship being a year long or 15-20 races for F1 has good scientific reason.

 

 

Pirelli tyre or why F1 needs crap tyre like Pirelli is exactly why F1 is in crisis. Fix or tweak aero first, namely increase the amount of underbody downforce, simplify aero etc. Can be done gradually and incrementally rather than many things at once so that they can prevent cost hike. There are plenty of things that can be done quite easily.

[Marklar]

Rubbish. shorter the season is the less meaningful it gets. whatever it is about, quantitative approach is the absolute basic and qualitative analysis can only be possible with what you get with quantitative analysis. that's why we can guess or know and see what cannot be known or seen practically or proven for certain quantitatively for realistic reasons/limitations.

 

Championship being a year long or 15-20 races for F1 has good scientific reason.

 

 

Pirelli tyre or why F1 needs crap tyre like Pirelli is exactly why F1 is in crisis. Fix or tweak aero first, namely increase the amount of underbody downforce, simplify aero etc. Can be done gradually and incrementally rather than many things at once so that they can prevent cost hike. There are plenty of things that can be done quite easily.

From what I understood it is that the season would actually go longer than now, but it would just have two bigger breaks in between (which is awful IMO).

 

However, I was also giggling when I read that, especially as it came from Hembery as a solution to stop the F1 crisis.

[Radoye]

I have mentioned elsewhere on these boards a similar idea, but it was for an "F2" championship being run with F1-legal cars, where teams would be allowed to run customer chassis (new, or older, as long as they comply with the rules) and would be budget capped. Races would be 1/2 distance of a F1 Grand Prix. There would be three regional championships, one for Europe / Middle East, one for the Americas, and one for South and East Asia and Australia / NZ. When F1 comes to the region, the "F2" races would be run as support during the Grand Prix weekend, and the "F2" teams would be invited to take part in the F1 sessions as well if they wish to do so (but they would not be eligible to score constructors points). Each regional championship would have some 10-15 races, those that fall outside of the Grand Prix weekend would be run on tracks that F1 usually doesn't visit.

[Jon83]

He should work out how to STFU before bothering with the logistics of anything. 

[Kristian]

OK, let's say 3 continents of 21 races (though poor old Africa is being left out of his idea...). It could be....

 

SECTION 1 - Asia / Oceana

1. Australia (Melbourne)

2. Malaysia (Sepang)

3. China (Shanghai) / Korea (Yeongam) (rotate each year as both are crap)

4. Japan (Suzuka)

5. Singapore (Marina Bay)

6. Bahrain (Manama) / Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina) (rotate each year as both are crap)

7. Russia / Turkey (rotate each year)

 

(3 week break)

 

SECTION 2 - Europe

8. Monaco

9. Austria (Red Bull Ring)

10. Hungary (Hungaroring)

11. Great Britain (Silverstone)

12. Germany (Hockenheim) / France (Magny Cours or Paul Ricard) (rotate each year for money reasons)

13. Belgium (Spa)

14. Italy (Monza)

 

(3 week break) 

 

SECTION 3 - Americas

15. Canada (Montreal)

16. USA East (New Jersey)

17. USA West (Anywhere...)

18. USA South (Austin)

19. Mexico (Mexico City)

20. Argentina (Buenos Aires)

21. Brazil (Interlagos)

[Marklar]

I see this would be the perfect opportunity to get a rid off some European races. Bernie will love that....

[Nathan]

Why does there need to be so many Euro races anyways?

 

I like Kristian's schedule (I'd bin Hungary for France though).  I don't like the idea of three championships within one.  Why do we need one team to win five championships per year instead of the two that usually happens?  There isn't really anything to gain from it. Who cares if you are the Asian-series winner if you are not the World Champion?

Edited by Nathan, 11 December 2015 - 17:03.

[muramasa]

From what I understood it is that the season would actually go longer than now, but it would just have two bigger breaks in between (which is awful IMO).

 

However, I was also giggling when I read that, especially as it came from Hembery as a solution to stop the F1 crisis.

I still understand the logistics/calendar part but we dont need Hembery to realize that. the rest is appallingly and unbelievably rubbish. What's teh point of mini-champions and what the hell "leading to overall champion" is about. Sth stupid is ready to happen there like playoff or double point..

[Marklar]

I've just adapted the mini-championship idea on the current season

 

Asia/Australia (8 races)

1. Hamilton 161

2. Vettel 135

3. Rosberg 121

 

Europe (7 races)

1. Hamilton 134

2. Rosberg 115

3. Vettel 103

 

America (4 races)

1. Hamilton 86

    Rosberg 86

3. Vettel 40

    Bottas 40

 

Well, doensnt change much....

 

WTF. First time I noticed that we just have 7 European races

[Ross Stonefeld]

Why would putting the North America races in their own championship get more local attention than having a World Championship that visits those same events? It's not like we're suddenly going to get NASCAR drivers and teams entering.

[Clatter]

Rubbish. shorter the season is the less meaningful it gets. whatever it is about, quantitative approach is the absolute basic and qualitative analysis can only be possible with what you get with quantitative analysis. that's why we can guess or know and see what cannot be known or seen practically or proven for certain quantitatively for realistic reasons/limitations.

 

Championship being a year long or 15-20 races for F1 has good scientific reason.

 

 

Pirelli tyre or why F1 needs crap tyre like Pirelli is exactly why F1 is in crisis. Fix or tweak aero first, namely increase the amount of underbody downforce, simplify aero etc. Can be done gradually and incrementally rather than many things at once so that they can prevent cost hike. There are plenty of things that can be done quite easily.

What's the science behind that then?

[BRG]

Why does there need to be so many Euro races anyways?

Because all the teams and manufacturers (except Honda) virtually all the sponsors and probably 75% of the F1 followers are from Europe.  A fact that frequently seems too difficult for Bernie to comprehend.

It's not like we're suddenly going to get NASCAR drivers and teams entering.

A pity.  I'd watch that, if only to see them doing a pit stop with two guys over the wall and a manual jack!

[johnmhinds]

Since when is Paul Hembery in the business of thinking up random championship ideas for Bernie.

[muramasa]

What's the science behind that then?

?

pretty basic

 

take rolling dice for example, impossible to get correct probability by 10 attempts or even 100 for that matter but the more you roll the closer you reach correct distribution. For F1 if you pick up 3 or 5 races or even 8 races sometimes "wrong driver" would score the most. I dont know for sure but Ros outscored LH for the last 4 or 5 races and maybe there's some instances where Vettel was the best scorer. The more races/seasons the better and more precise outlook you get, either championship or driver. Most sports or whatever thing is yearly basis for reasons coming from how solar system is like and for F1 it's 20 races at the moment. Super Formula has only 7 or 8 races hence naturally it's significantly less accurate. One or few bad luck or absence is crucial and that's basically the only reason why Lotterer isnt winning more title.

 

This quantitative/qualitative thing in science is junior high school level really.

[YoungGun]

Does Pirelli have decent snow tire? Because for sure come November they would be needed in Montreal.

Edited by YoungGun, 11 December 2015 - 18:27.

[Clatter]

?

pretty basic

 

take rolling dice for example, impossible to get correct probability by 10 attempts or even 100 for that matter but the more you roll the closer you reach correct distribution. For F1 if you pick up 3 or 5 races or even 8 races sometimes "wrong driver" would score the most. I dont know for sure but Ros outscored LH for the last 4 or 5 races and maybe there's some instances where Vettel was the best scorer. The more races/seasons the better and more precise outlook you get, either championship or driver. Most sports or whatever thing is yearly basis for reasons coming from how solar system is like and for F1 it's 20 races at the moment. Super Formula has only 7 or 8 races hence naturally it's significantly less accurate. One or few bad luck or absence is crucial and that's basically the only reason why Lotterer isnt winning more title.

 

This quantitative/qualitative thing in science is junior high school level really.

And you seriously think BE looked to science for the F1 schedule? 

[Clatter]

Does Pirelli have decent snow tire? Because for sure come November they would be needed in Montreal.

Sounds good to me.

[Marklar]

Does Pirelli have decent snow tire? Because for sure come November they would be needed in Montreal.

BREAKING NEWS: Mercedes caught doing illegal tyre test AGAIN

 

[Radoye]

Does Pirelli have decent snow tire? Because for sure come November they would be needed in Montreal.

 

Not this year!

[Nathan]

 

Because all the teams and manufacturers (except Honda) virtually all the sponsors and probably 75% of the F1 followers are from Europe.  A fact that frequently seems too difficult for Bernie to comprehend.

 

OK, but 2 of the 3 Euro car manufactures sell more cars outside of Europe than within, and Renault is going to be there pretty quick too.  Almost all the Euro sponsors sell globally.  Only one-third of Red Bull's business happens in Europe, and that is the case for most companies.   Do you want to grow the fan base, expand the market, or watch it shrink from simple demographics?  Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Russia and UK races covers your large markets, Belgium & Monaco keep the historics. 8 max.  To me, long-term, it makes more sense to be in China, India, Korea, Mexico.than Portgual, the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary...

Edited by Nathan, 11 December 2015 - 19:36.

[ANF]

Just bring in Michelin, please.

[Clatter]

OK, but 2 of the 3 Euro car manufactures sell more cars outside of Europe than within, and Renault is going to be there pretty quick too.  Almost all the Euro sponsors sell globally.  Only one-third of Red Bull's business happens in Europe, and that is the case for most companies.   Do you want to grow the fan base, expand the market, or watch it shrink from simple demographics?  Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Russia and UK races covers your large markets, Belgium & Monaco keep the historics. 8 max.  To me, long-term, it makes more sense to be in China, India, Korea, Mexico.than Portgual, the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary...

And has the fan base increased because of F1 visiting these far flung places? It seems to me this trend of moving away from the traditional venues has simply alienated a good number of fans and the fan base\viewers appears to have been shrinking.

[Risil]

I would say it makes most sense to go places where people actually want to watch and promote F1.

 

Don't forget that Hungary takes in a significant number of fans from other countries in central and eastern Europe, which is a very large and develop-able market for motor racing.

 

On topic though, wtf, Paul Hembery's idea makes no sense.

Edited by Risil, 11 December 2015 - 22:39.

[FerrariV12]

The only way I see regional championships making sense would be in a scenario where say, a good US-based team (say from IndyCar or NASCAR) wants to enter the sport but unlike Haas doesn't have the money for the full schedule, so instead commit to running the 7 race Americas schedule, and aim to finish as high up as possible in that sub-championship as their goal. Likewise the Asian championship for, for example, a FNippon/Super GT squad looking to get involved, and obviously the numerous European-based teams in other categories.

 

But since F1 requires teams to commit for a full year and doesn't allow one-off entries (obviously this could always be changed but don't see it mentioned in the article), and, thinking about it more, the fact that the main costs would be around the design, build, development of the cars which would still be required, the above would probably never apply.

[johnmhinds]

And has the fan base increased because of F1 visiting these far flung places? It seems to me this trend of moving away from the traditional venues has simply alienated a good number of fans and the fan base\viewers appears to have been shrinking.

 

Correlation does not imply causation and all that jazz.

 

I don't see how more races overall can be a cause of a drop in fans, other than the time of day the race is broadcast it makes very little difference to a TV viewer if a race is in Shanghai, Silverstone or Singapore, and more night races and circuits in the Americas on the calendar has only been a positive for European TV viewing figures.

Edited by johnmhinds, 11 December 2015 - 21:58.

[Afterburner]

Upon first reading this it seemed like a pretty cool idea, sort of like what I think the WEC should go to; 16-18 races per year, with regional championships and entrants in each, and a world championship scored from all the races on offer at the end of the year. Then I realised how much it would suck if DRACONE ended up ass-backwards in Hamilton's face while "driving" Dale Coyne's regional single-car F1 entry as Rosberg went by in Brasil to claim the world title by one point. Some of the regional entries would probably make Maldonado look like a god.

 

So nah, not for me. Regional championships sound like a great idea, but not in place of the world championship.

[nosecone]

I'd take sprinklers over that proposal any day of the year

[Marklar]

On topic though, wtf, Paul Hembery's idea makes no sense.

His ideas have never made sense...

[THEWALL]

Right, because that's the problem...

[superden]

What a staggeringly crap idea.

[GoldenColt]

BREAKING NEWS: Mercedes caught doing illegal tyre test AGAIN

 

 

Still faster than McLaren... 

[ardbeg]

Hembery told the Guardian: “I will be talking to Bernie shortly about this. I haven’t worked out the logistical problems. It’s up to the teams to do that. But this is all about getting more interest in Formula One, and particularly in the Americas."

 

If I had not already lost all respect for him, I would lose all respect for him.

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

Why only three championships in one season? Just start a new one after each race and ban the winner of the previous "championship" to participate for the rest of the season.

 

  Wouldn't you like to see the two Manors fighting for the title at the end of the year?

[ArchieTech]

Talk about a solution looking for a problem! I think Pirelli would be well advised to concentrate on the tyres, and let other people worry about the rest of F1.

[SonJR]

Kind of a fascinating idea, but weather wise alone the 3 regionalized championships seems near impossible to get sorted. You need to have the middle eastern races and texas in the first or third block, whereas you'd need to have canada in the middle somewhere. As for the southeast asian races in countries with rain seasons, you'd need to probably put those in the first or second bloc, while the european ones probably need to be in the second bloc, so it would require a lot of puzzling.

[Wheels23]

If I had not already lost all respect for him, I would lose all respect for him.

 

So you lose respect for people suggesting ideas that are stupid. Kind of a bit OTT. 

[ardbeg]

So you lose respect for people suggesting ideas that are stupid. Kind of a bit OTT. 

 

If they are in the position that Hembery is in and if they after they have gotten their stupid idea goes to the press with it and allow it to be printed,  yes.

 

Actually, I lose respect for people for a lot less, for instance when someome use the acronym "OTT". 

[Disgrace]

Under Hembery’s plan each continent, or series, would produce its own champion, leading towards an overall champion at the end of the year.

 

[Nonesuch]

I like it!

I wish they cut up the FIFA World Cup into seperate bits, too, so we could have something that you might call the 'Euro Cup' in one year, maybe every two years, and then the 'Asia Cup' the other years so they don't clash.



Since we're in the habit of posting GIFs, I'll conclude with this bit of advice for the fine folks at Pirelli.



But not before reminding them of what Ferrari star and 4x World Champion Sebastian Vettel had to say in Brazil:

"I think we need better tyres that allow us to go quicker. Drivers want to be quicker. So, I think the solution is very simple." (http://www.formula1....e---brazil.html)

Edited by Nonesuch, 13 December 2015 - 09:45.

[Wheels23]

If they are in the position that Hembery is in and if they after they have gotten their stupid idea goes to the press with it and allow it to be printed,  yes.

 

Actually, I lose respect for people for a lot less, for instance when someome use the acronym "OTT". 

 

Blame the press not him. He was probably spitballing and was just like eh whatever. 

 

Gotta dislike that someome. 

[DutchQuicksilver]

Let Hembery concentrate on making his tyres better, instead of coming up with these silly ideas.

[P123]

I'm sure all those who work with the teams would just love to be away from home for a solid 2/3rds of the season.

Regional championships...? Erm, no. I can imagine the sort of well thought out arguments we could all look forward to in here, such as "driver x isn't the champion of Europe though, so he's not a real world champion".

Edited by P123, 13 December 2015 - 12:23.

[ANF]

Perhaps they could make different belts for different champions, like in boxing. So, for example, there would be one belt for the reigning Formula One World Champion of Australasia. And then of course there would be the Intercontinental Formula One World Champion of the World belt. Or helmets? Maybe they should be helmets.

[johnmhinds]

Perhaps they could make different belts for different champions, like in boxing. So, for example, there would be one belt for the reigning Formula One World Champion of Australasia. And then of course there would be the Intercontinental Formula One World Champion of the World belt. Or helmets? Maybe they should be helmets.

That would mesh really well with the FIAs crack down on helmet changes...

The whole idea sounds like a dud anyway, if they make any extra trophies they'd only be sold off to Santandar and become more plastic turd logo shaped trinkets.

[OvDrone]

Is this dude for real? Goddamn it Pirelli.