305 replies to this topic

[Graveltrappen]

Thinking back over the past few decades, what would you say would be your biggest frustration of something you thought should or could have happened, but never came to fruition?

Nick Heidfeld constantly being looked past by the big teams was one for me, always thought he was undervalued in F1.

Kubicas failure to utilise his skills and battle for race wins and championships due to his accident

[Marklar]

Deaths are the biggest injustices. I could think of many examples such as Bellof, Cevert or Williamson - or most recent Bianchi. Young drivers who had a bright future forthcoming. Thats my biggest frustation thinking of that.

Edited by Marklar, 11 December 2015 - 18:32.

[Collombin]

The return of Pironi.

[JHSingo]

Oh gosh. Can hear the proverbial can of worms already being opened.

 

For me, Massa's 2008 season. But for an engine failure in Hungary, and Renault's stunt in Singapore, he'd most likely have been world champion that year.

 

I don't lose sleep over it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I had a little bit of sympathy for him over that.

[Marklar]

1982 season. One driver suffers all the time reliability problems, one other dies, the other suffers career ending injuries while leading the championship comfortable. Despite the title being trully deserved for Keke, it feels so unfair thinking of that.

[Henri Greuter]

For me: 1990

 

Unacceptable that a driver who caused a deliberate accident on purpose saw his crime rewarded with the title of that year and was permitted to continue racing three more years. The more while one year later admitted it had been on purpose and out of frstration, not so much with the driver he wanted to beat at all costs but because of the FIA president he had problems with...

 

I still can't believe this accident to be left unpunished, the more while it set the standard for similar diserespectful conduct on the trck by other drivers in later years.

 

Henri

[Brod]

Any death of a driver obviously, but: Valencia 2010. One driver is overtaking the sc, one is following the rules. The position at the end of that race of both drivers reflects quite well what i would call "injustice". 

[Hamandeggs]

Lewis not becoming WDC in 2007 as a rookie,Poss a feat unmatchable now.

Damon not becoming champ in 1994,I stayed up through the night and felt just as shafted as Damon (sweet to see a similar stunt fail on Jacque)

Just remembered;Damon not winning the 1997 Hungarian gp in an Arrows

Edited by Hamandeggs, 11 December 2015 - 19:42.

[karl100589]

Aside from those already mentioned, I'll bring up the careers of Alessandro Nannini and Karl Wendlinger being curtailed by injuries, with both IMO with the potential to be future champions.

[Dan333SP]

First thought was Massa 2008. Yes, Hammy deserved the title, but the way Massa was beaten was just so sad, with the whole team and family celebrating as if they'd won until a mechanic told them Lewis got Glock and then punched the wall.

 

2nd thought is Kubica's career. He was always extremely quick, and I think he was maturing into a consistent team leader that could have been in the mix with Lewis and Vettel for the standout driver of this generation. Such a shame than a relatively freak accident would keep him out of an F1 car for the rest of his career.

 

Last thought... not an injustice, but a wish that MSC had stayed at Merc for another year or two and nabbed at least a handful of race wins as a 40-something.

[byrkus]

Picture probably speaks for itself... Nürburgring 1999.

 

[FrAnC1s96]

Alonso not winning in 2012- Pretty much perfect season for him driving wise, if only he wasn't taken out at either Belgium or Japan that would have been probably the biggest underdog victory in the history of the sport.

[scheivlak]

Alonso not winning in 2012- Pretty much perfect season for him driving wise, if only he wasn't taken out at either Belgium or Japan 

He wasn't taken out in Japan. It was his own fault.

[Ben1445]

I was about to put 'Maldonado winning in Barcelona' but ..kinda mean..he did actually drive the car after all. Therefore, I will say any driver of considerable talent who never got the chance to show it, for whatever circumstance.  

Edited by Ben1445, 11 December 2015 - 20:22.

[SpartanChas]

Robin Frijns not getting into F1.

 

Spa 2008.

[ensign14]

Biggest injustice was the treatment of Tyrrell in 1984.  The governing body and other teams colluding to get a rule change that they needed to beat Ken in 1985.  Utter disgrace.  FISA kept changing the charges and the evidence until they got what they wanted.  But then again what do you expect from a proud member of the SS?

[DampMongoose]

First few in mind... Mansell's blowout at Adelaide, Hill not winning in the Arrows, and Webber not plowing into Vettel for Multi 21.

Further back its more sombre thoughts...

[Marklar]

Spa 2008.

Ok, it was a injustice, but I will NEVER get it why people are reacting so emotionally about that, given that they eventually stil won the title.

[Dan333SP]

Couple others off the top of my head...

 

MSC not starting from the 1st grid slot at Monaco '12 after his penalty from a prior race. I know it was deserved, but still...

 

Alesi joining exactly the wrong team at the wrong time. He had a shot at Williams for 1991 but went to Ferrari.

 

Sutil being taken out of 4th place at Monaco by an out of control Kimi in '08.

 

Frentzen retiring from the lead of the Nurburgring race in '99 because of a car failure. Winning would have given him the championship lead, if I recall.

 

In fact, that race was full of injustices. The previously mentioned retirement of Badoer from what would have been Minardi's best finish in years. Herbert getting Stewart's first win when Rubens had been considerably better for them all year. Fisi and Ralf both losing a shot at their first wins through a spin and a puncture. Mika passing Eddie towards the end for what turned out to be the final point, which ultimately would have given Eddie the title in Japan if he'd held on. What a crazy race...

[Jonnycraig37]

He wasn't taken out in Japan. It was his own fault.

Bingo. Hence it being impossible to feel any sympathy with him.

[Dan333SP]

Bingo. Hence it being impossible to feel any sympathy with him.

 

I do feel sympathy with him over '10... It seems the team just blew the pit strategy and he got stuck behind Petrov through no fault of his own, and just couldn't pass so he lost the title.

 

Didn't some people point to that specific incident as the genesis of the DRS idea?

[Marklar]

DRS was already decided months before that,though

[Afterburner]

Since I've been watching:

 

Basically everything at the end of 2006 was painful as a Schumacher fan. His final win was one of his finest drives. The engine failure, gearbox issue, and puncture that followed in the next two races--and merely the fact that he was retiring when it was obvious he still had plenty left in him--just felt all wrong somehow. Personally, I feel he would've had a really, really good shot at 2007/2008. Imagine how epic that duel would've been... MS vs. Kimi vs. Alonso vs. Hamilton. One can only wonder...

 

Following on that, the track drying out as early as it did in Canada 2011 sucked, too. I still remember seeing the graphic with MS's gaps to Vettel pop up on the screen--three green laps, all about a second quicker, all in a row--followed by the purple 'Fastest Lap: M Schumacher'--then two laps later it was obvious it was all over.

 

Also, as a Montoya fan, I have memories of sitting in the grandstand on the front straight at Indy in 2003, windburnt, cold, and really wet, waiting to see if he'd come home in a high enough place to keep the championship alive to the last round--only to end up one place short as he cruised home around the banking. It was the saddest I've ever seen an F1 car look.

 

A lot of Kimi's retirements in 2005 were pretty lousy, too, to be honest, but then again they usually set up for some sort of amusing pithy comment from David Hobbs, too.

[SenorSjon]

Spa 1998 with a lifting DC in the rain on the racing line. To think Schumacher was banned from the 1997 ranking for a minor collision (where was the Villeneuve in Japan outcry?).

 

Frijns not getting a F1 seat and it seems Stoffel is in the waiting room as well.

[LeClerc]

Biggest injustice was the treatment of Tyrrell in 1984.  The governing body and other teams colluding to get a rule change that they needed to beat Ken in 1985.  Utter disgrace.  FISA kept changing the charges and the evidence until they got what they wanted.  But then again what do you expect from a proud member of the SS?

 

ORLY ?

[Henri Greuter]

Biggest injustice was the treatment of Tyrrell in 1984.  The governing body and other teams colluding to get a rule change that they needed to beat Ken in 1985.  Utter disgrace.  FISA kept changing the charges and the evidence until they got what they wanted.  But then again what do you expect from a proud member of the SS?

 

I can't say that what they did in cheating that year was not reason enough to leave that unpunished. And justifying it with proclaiming to have water injection. On an atmo engine......

They were cheating and made themselves vulnerable for being punished accordingly.

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 11 December 2015 - 21:29.

[Nonesuch]

A lot of missed opportunities, as unfortunate as they may be, are still part of the sport. Ferrari could have won the 2006 and 2008 driver titles if they had built better and more reliable engines. Frustrating - no doubt, but still part of the game.

 

But I am still resentful about Singapore 2008. Yes Ferrari and Massa screwed up on their own, but the situation was forced by Renault cheating Alonso into a win - not even by building a dodgy car, all teams have done that to some degree at one point, but in one of the most egregious ways imaginable. Having your second driver crash on purpose to ruin the entire course of the race is utterly repugnant.

 

It was something completely different from the usual swings of good and bad luck.

 

That some of the people who cooked that up are still in the sport is frustrating every time they are portrayed by the pithless press as somehow respectable.

 

Edited by Nonesuch, 11 December 2015 - 21:34.

[Collombin]

ORLY ?

Yes,ORLY. In fact there were two ways of interpreting the OP, and if I had taken the alternative interpretation then Tyrrell's 1984 ridiculous and political DQ would have been my choice.

[Dan333SP]

A lot of missed opportunities, as unfortunate as they may be, are still part of the sport. Ferrari could have won the 2006 and 2008 driver titles if they had built better and more reliable engines. Frustrating - no doubt, but still part of the game.

 

But I am still resentful about Singapore 2008. Yes Ferrari and Massa screwed up on their own, but the situation was forced by Renault cheating Alonso into a win.

 

It was something entirely different from the usual swings of good and bad luck.

 

That some of the people who cooked that up are still in the sport is frustrating every time they are portrayed by the pithless press as somehow respectable.

 

 

 

Agree. I always thought it was ironic that they ended up winning the very next race on merit with ALO after the championship contenders fumbled themselves out of contention. You'd think karma would have gifted the Japanese GP to Kubica that day instead...

[dierome1987]

JPM in 2003. The FIA and Ferrari forced Michelin to change its tyres only a couple of days before the Italian GP. Had this not happened, JPM would have probably gone on to win that race and the complexion of the championship heading to Indianapolis would have been entirely different.

Similarly, the stupid penalty for his overtake on Barrichello at Indy essentially prevented him from coming 6th, which would have kept his championship hopes alive for Suzuka.

[ensign14]

ORLY ?

 

 

I can't say that what they did in cheating that year was not reason enough to leave that unpunished. And justifying it with proclaiming to have water injection. On an atmo engine......

They were cheating and made themselves vulnerable for being punished accordingly.

 

Henri

 

Been through all this before.  FISA's charge started off as adding ballast during the race, and then, at the hearing itself, changed it to adding fuel.  Based on spurious analysis of the watercooler. 

 

And when Tyrrell appealed the charge changed again to having holes in the floor.

 

It was a stitch-up.

[ensign14]

The second-greatest injustice incidentally was Spa 2008.  Never was FIArrari's race-fixing more evident than with that.  A total disgrace.  Had McLaren had balls they would have withdrawn instantly.  And thrown in the r-word while they were at it.  Asking why the black driver was punished but the son of the Fascist did not penalize the blue-eyed blond-haired Aryan for the exact same thing.  Might just have caused enough stink to get rid of CVC and Bernie's cronies.

[Nemo1965]

 

 

Been through all this before.  FISA's charge started off as adding ballast during the race, and then, at the hearing itself, changed it to adding fuel.  Based on spurious analysis of the watercooler. 

 

And when Tyrrell appealed the charge changed again to having holes in the floor.

 

It was a stitch-up.

 

I think this case was akin to the Simpson-case. In this case: they framed the right team.

[Otaku]

Spa 1998 with a lifting DC in the rain on the racing line. To think Schumacher was banned from the 1997 ranking for a minor collision (where was the Villeneuve in Japan outcry?).

 

 

You can't be serious comparing both situations. Completely different.

[Afterburner]

The second-greatest injustice incidentally was Spa 2008.  Never was FIArrari's race-fixing more evident than with that.  A total disgrace.  Had McLaren had balls they would have withdrawn instantly.  And thrown in the r-word while they were at it.  Asking why the black driver was punished but the son of the Fascist did not penalize the blue-eyed blond-haired Aryan for the exact same thing.  Might just have caused enough stink to get rid of CVC and Bernie's cronies.

Honestly, given the way the FIA has historically enforced track limits, it seems to me this is just another example of the stewards bumbling their way into a decision, except a race win just happened to be hanging in the balance.

 

I agree the penalty was bogus, but I think it was incompetence rather than a conspiracy. Assuming it's a conspiracy means you have to assume that the FIA are actually able to understand their own rules.

[Lee Nicolle]

To me very obvious, MS taking out Damon in Adelaide

Senna taking out Lauda in Japan

Mansell losing a tyre in Adelaide.

All championship deciding from memory

[Otaku]

To me very obvious, MS taking out Damon in Adelaide

Senna taking out Lauda in Japan

Mansell losing a tyre in Adelaide.

All championship deciding from memory

 

Edited by Otaku, 11 December 2015 - 22:14.

[ensign14]

I agree the penalty was bogus, but I think it was incompetence rather than a conspiracy. Assuming it's a conspiracy means you have to assume that the FIA are actually able to understand their own rules.

 

Given Donnelly's involvement in persuading the stewards to penalize Hamilton, I would definitely say conspiracy.

[Henri Greuter]

 

 

Been through all this before.  FISA's charge started off as adding ballast during the race, and then, at the hearing itself, changed it to adding fuel.  Based on spurious analysis of the watercooler. 

 

And when Tyrrell appealed the charge changed again to having holes in the floor.

 

It was a stitch-up.

 

 

You are conveniently ignoring the fact that something was going on that was against the rules again.

Could you ever have lived with the outcome if they had stuck to the one bare fact that was the case anyhow: Tyrrell ran underweigt for the major part of the race  and if it was either fuel or water or whatever they added tot the car a few laps form the finish doesn't matter that much anymore, The cheaters ran underweight and that alone is reason enough to be punished.

Again, if they had stuck to that complaint/crime only and punished because of that, could you have lived with that? Or is breaking a rule and run illegaly permitted if the çharges keep on changing all the time as you claim they are?

 

 

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 11 December 2015 - 22:46.

[Hamandeggs]

Lots of last lap breakdowns costing race wins in F1,with Mansell an expert but

GP Germany 1987 springs to mind, Stefan Johansson picked up a puncture on the last lap and ended up losing to Piquet by over a minute.

sux

[63Corvette]

Lorenzo Bandini burning to death (live on TV) at the 1967 Monoco race. Frustrating not because of his death, but because of the flag marshals standing around watching him burn and doing nothing!!!

https://en.wikipedia...Lorenzo_Bandini

https://youtu.be/x1pJo3sLpVk

[ElJefe]

Barrichello and Schumacher's swap, Austria 2002... Oh, and Indy 2005. That was as farcical as it gets, it's a miracle the repercussions in hindsight were relatively small...

[Nemo1965]

Lorenzo Bandini burning to death (live on TV) at the 1967 Monoco race. Frustrating not because of his death, but because of the flag marshals standing around watching him burn and doing nothing!!!

https://en.wikipedia...Lorenzo_Bandini

https://youtu.be/x1pJo3sLpVk

 

Eh... What could the flag-marshals have done? They did not have fire-proof clothing. Have you ever stood within 25 metres of such a fire? I once stood 50 metres from a similar fire. I ran away, because I thought the heat was going to sear off my eyebrows....

Edited by Nemo1965, 11 December 2015 - 23:36.

[P123]

JPM in 2003. The FIA and Ferrari forced Michelin to change its tyres only a couple of days before the Italian GP. Had this not happened, JPM would have probably gone on to win that race and the complexion of the championship heading to Indianapolis would have been entirely different.

Similarly, the stupid penalty for his overtake on Barrichello at Indy essentially prevented him from coming 6th, which would have kept his championship hopes alive for Suzuka.

Agreed, although if none of that had transpired there would have been an even greater injustice- his car failing in Suzuka a few laps after passing Rubens for the lead on the entry to Spoon...

[ensign14]

 

Could you ever have lived with the outcome if they had stuck to the one bare fact that was the case anyhow: Tyrrell ran underweigt for the major part of the race  and if it was either fuel or water or whatever they added tot the car a few laps form the finish doesn't matter that much anymore, The cheaters ran underweight and that alone is reason enough to be punished.

 

FISA never once charged Tyrrell with running underweight.  And given that Bellof's car must have been weighed after Monaco, before he could have taken on ballast, that's because FISA knew that Tyrrell was never running underweight, and could prove it.

 

Why do you think FISA changed the charge at every stage while giving no notice?  It was a stitch-up.  The sort of total bollocks that goes on in banana republics like Equatorial Guinea or Miterrand's France.

[rjtart]

Jochen Rindt never got to enjoy his championship.

[InSearchOfThe]

Von Tripps

 

Gilles  Ronnie Petersen  Mark Donohue

[THEWALL]

Monaco GP cancellation when Senna was catching up Prost in the rain.

 

Senna 1989 dsq always seemed fishy, especially when you see JMB's face when arguing about it in the Senna movie.

 

Senna just misileing Prost in 1990.  Those two championship finales rank high up there in disappointment together with this year's MotoGP.

 

That 1990 Ferrari not being world champion.

 

Alesi not fulfilling the promise of his first race where there was some wheel to wheel with Senna.

 

The appearance of DRS.

 

Schumi losing the 2006 WDC in part due to failures at the end.

 

Hockenheim 2010 TOs fiasco.

 

2007 situation at the end of the championship with accusations of lower tyre pressures and FIA inspectors being asked to monitor the pits.

 

2012 moving Massa back on the grid on purpose.

 

ALO's gesture to Petrov after 2010 final.

 

The DDs in 2009.

[63Corvette]

Eh... What could the flag-marshals have done? They did not have fire-proof clothing. Have you ever stood within 25 metres of such a fire? I once stood 50 metres from a similar fire. I ran away, because I thought the heat was going to sear off my eyebrows....

Well yeah, Nemo, I have. That is WHY we volunteer for Flag stations ya know!!! I RACE my cars. I am a racing driver. and therefore I KNOW what it takes and take the time to personally thank every member of the safety crew. Now.................what is YOUR background and what are your issues with cowardice?????

[jonpollak]

Greg Moore @ Penske.
Jp