12 replies to this topic

[racecarstory]

i ahve found on the net a little collection of english newspaper AUTO-MOTOR JOURNAL from 1896 to 1906,  a very incredible collection of the early motor racing (and very useful for my archive)...among all the race resulst here there is an austrian hillclimb at Buccheim on 18 june, 1905. among the cars inserted there is a "Lohne-Porsche 70HP" third in the category racing cars.

Beacuse of Ferdinand Porsche was austrian, i searched something and i find in wikipedia this https://en.wikipedia...rdinand_Porsche and it's written that this car was launched on 1900 as an electric car and the with a daimler engine! someone has info about this car and the races in which it was used? thanks!!!

[Allan Lupton]

There's a lot on the internet about Lohner-Porsche but not all is correct, particularly the Wikipedia entry https://en.wikipedia...Lohner-Porsche

which even calls this electric vehicle:

a "mixte" or "hybrid"

Edited by Allan Lupton, 13 December 2015 - 10:28.

[Vitesse2]

Not Lohne but Lohner-Porsche. An interesting vehicle - or rather a series of one-offs - which some consider to be the first 'hybrid' cars, since the electric motors attached to the wheels also meant that the later ones were four-wheel drive. By no means a racing car as we would understand it now - or even in period - but they were certainly entered in various trials and hillclimbs. The technology was expensive, so was mainly used in commercial vehicles. There is a Wikipedia page dedicated to the Lohner-Porsches, which has links to other pages about them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Lohner-Porsche

 

The Austrian National Library's website has a complete archive of Allgemeine Automobil Zeitung from 1900 onwards, which may provide more information.

 

http://anno.onb.ac.a...nt/anno?aid=aaz

 

Searching Google.de will also produce many more references, eg:

 

http://www.auto-moto...eb-1939709.html

[Allan Lupton]

Anent that Lohner-Porsche vehicle in the photo I posted (of the electric vehicle built for E.W. Hart) I've been looking back at some discussion I had on another forum some time ago.

I wrote then:

Yes, I saw it on all those internet publicity features on the Cayenne and, as is so often the case, the PR people didn't let facts get in the way of a good story.
By combining the fact that Dr. Porsche built a four wheel driven vehicle in 1900 with the fact that he built a petrol-electric car in 1902 they feel that he should have built a 4WD Hybrid, so why not say that he did. Since the Hart vehicle is the only one where photos show all wheels to have hub motors, "let's use its photo - nobody will mind because nobody will know."

 

Karl Luvigsen has written a major book about Porsche (man and company) but perhaps it's a bit too much money unless you are deeply interested in the subject.

[racecarstory]

thnaks very much!!!   

[robert dick]

Allgemeine Automobil-Zeitung/Wien, 10 November 1901:
http://anno.onb.ac.a...seite=7&zoom=33
and 6 April 1902:
http://anno.onb.ac.a...eite=11&zoom=33

From The Motor World, May 1902:

 

[Catalina Park]

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but I will post it anyway!

[bradbury west]

ISTR that we had an example of the  vehicle at the Festival of Speed a couple of years ago.

Roger Lund

[uechtel]

I understand that the mixte system was regarded more or less as an alternative kind of transmission, so you could order your Mercedes either with a conventional gearbox/chain drive or with the electric one. But how did it work. Did the driver have to control two separate "accelerators" or did the combustion engine run permanently with the most effective rev rate?

[Allan Lupton]

I understand that the mixte system was regarded more or less as an alternative kind of transmission, so you could order your Mercedes either with a conventional gearbox/chain drive or with the electric one. But how did it work. Did the driver have to control two separate "accelerators" or did the combustion engine run permanently with the most effective rev rate?

I don't know, but what I would expect is that the generator and motors were simply connected (presumably with a disconnect/reversing switch) and more throttle gave more engine speed so more power to the motors. No batteries on the mixte, so no regenerative braking and I doubt if even the great Porsche was brave enough to use the reversing switch as a way of destroying forward speed.

[robert dick]

From The Horseless Age, 14 January 1903:


 

[Allan Lupton]

Well found!!

Now we need to know what that "electric controller" did and how it was operated to answer Uechtel's question properly.

[Vitesse2]

 

In German, but some helpful pictures: http://www.kompresso...troantriebs.pdf