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#1 SCHUEYFAN

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 20:05

I hate the new sounds which I have indicated before.  I have gone to the Montreal race for 20 years plus but I'm staying home since the cars sound awful and nowhere near what a race car should be.  I'm a traditional motor sport fan, the live experience must encompass the sound, noise and feel of the cars being on edge and I had no such inkling of that in 2014.  With that being said, is there any news or firsthand feedback from Jerez of the engine noise being just as awful or has it improved?



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#2 morrino

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 02:33

Listen to this monster!

 



#3 SCHUEYFAN

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 03:29

The Honda engine is unlike any other engine and sounds promising!  It does though sound really out of tune and I surmise it will get more refined after it does more than one lap per day.  If they decide to get make the engines generate 1000+ HP, it will be relatively easy by increasing revs a few thousand RPM with more fuel flow which will make them sound a lot better, hopefully they realize "the cool factor" is an important part of the equation like so many fans want.


Edited by SCHUEYFAN, 03 February 2015 - 03:34.


#4 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:07

Listen to this monster!

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Tourgott, 03 February 2015 - 08:00.


#5 CoolBreeze

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:11

Listen to this monster!

 

 

 

What monster? I hear a low res, pretty distorted from the camera quality, and because it was in the pit box, the echo plays a part too. Checkout on 0:54-0:56 sec of the clip, and you can hear another car come down the pit straights and it sounds excatly like last year, which is crap.



#6 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:33

These posts have been outsourced from http://forums.autosp...-merged/page-81

Just to clarify the intention of the thread ;)

Anyway: New engines are coming 2016/17 though...


Edited by Tourgott, 03 February 2015 - 06:34.


#7 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 07:15

These posts have been outsourced from http://forums.autosp...-merged/page-81

Just to clarify the intention of the thread ;)

Anyway: New engines are coming 2016/17 though...

 

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?

Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

 

Henri



#8 David1976

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 07:21

They sound worse than last year in my opinion. At least the Merc used to sound interesting. This year it sounds exactly like the rest.

#9 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 07:26

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?

Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

 

Henri

 

How many fans can F1 afford to lose before Honda, Mercedes and Renault will quit their engagement?



#10 SenorSjon

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 08:46

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?

Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

 

Henri

 

Well, perhaps other brands step into the gap. Or Ferrari has a field day selling engines to everybody. With a suggested retail price of about 10m/team/season, they would profit from this. So I guess there will always be others. And like a phoenix, perhaps some things first have to die to be reborn.



#11 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 09:02

How many fans can F1 afford to lose before Honda, Mercedes and Renault will quit their engagement?

 

How many F1 fans have to contribute to the creation of yet another new kind of engine? You make it read as if the fans are providing enough cash flow to the participating companies to fund their efforts.

The fans are not funding the new engines you think to be necessary. Maybe for companies that have not wasted 10s of millions to the current engines yet may find the time right to step in this time. But what guarantee do theyy have that the new engine  formula will be retained long enough to justify the efforts? If ne new loud engines are not green enough or, dare I mention it, not loud enough either, what's next?

 

If it is also and primarily at Ecclestone's expense, then I am more than happy to see the current F1 go down like the Titanic. The mood of Ecclestone and his `untouchable circus` begins to reflect the mood about the unsinkable Titanic more and more.

 

Besides that: since yesterday, when the Nissan LPM1 broke cover, we have seen the definitive approval that there is still a racing formula left in this world that allows innovative thinking out of the box and challenging constructors of engines, cars, chassis etc.

 

I wonder if there are Japanese members on our forum and if so, how many of them feel more excited about the revolutionary Nissan that will race and take on the best of Europe then about Honda being a partner of yet another European F1 team that has a policy of never ever running japanese drivers in return for all their efforts.

I would not be surprised if Honda also feels left a bit in the cold by now with Nissaan stealing lots of the thunder if it comes to Japanese efforts in racing worldwide.

 

Ferrari will never quit F1. Mercedes will never rejoin sportscars again because that means le Mans and after 1955 and 1999 (and 1985 when John Nielsen also flipped a Sauber-Merrcedes) they will likely never ever even consider Le Mans anymore.

But Renault might be tempted to try to shine on home ground. Honda has no history on sportcars but only in F1. But taking on Nissan and rrestore thier image of innovators?

Unlimited cashflow within F1 is an utopy. That alone will make it very difficult to find enough interested engine builders, if the by now proven state of instability within F1 with respect to rule making in general is not enough reason to stay out of F1 and don't be part of it when it implodes.

 

 

Henri



#12 ninetyzero

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 09:49

Oh god, do we really need a new thread for people to moan about engine noises? It has to be the dullest topic ever :mad:



#13 SpartanChas

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 10:34

Is it just going to be a repeat of last years? I might switch sides if it is. See life from the other side. Not like it's serious or anything.

Edited by SpartanChas, 03 February 2015 - 10:38.


#14 Jazza

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 10:37

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?
Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

Henri


I thought these engines were all about being road car relevant? If so, then they have already got their "millions of investments" back just by making them. If not, then the whole road car relevancy justification was just a load of PR-BS. After all, these engines are going to slowly be locked in design as they are stopped from upgrading them, so anything relevant was going to be found in the first two years anyway.

#15 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 10:52

Here we go again! In before the fanboy barricades are erected and battle commences ...

I had no issue with the sound last year and this years units, based on the limited first impressions we've had, actually sound a little nicer. I do understand the view of those who don't like the sound, but they really need to get over it. Unless they like high blood pressure. I see the 'sound issue' dropping off the radar completely this season. Like everything, familiarity sets in and people adjust.

Besides, F1 has far bigger issues to address.

#16 pdac

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:05

Oh god, do we really need a new thread for people to moan about engine noises? It has to be the dullest topic ever :mad:

 

I will repeat that ...

 

Oh god, do we really need a  new thread for people to moan about the engine noises?



#17 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:07

I see the 'sound issue' dropping off the radar completely this season. Like everything, familiarity sets in and people adjust.

 

Pretty sure you're wrong.

BILD reported about the cancellation of the German GP today due to the low attendance. Guess what the majority of the people think is the reason?

Comments like "Nobody pays for vacuum cleaners" and "New rules suck" got up to 1.000 likes.



#18 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:11

And of those 'likes' how many actually attended, or have ever attended, the German GP?

#19 TheRacingElf

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:11

Pretty sure you're wrong.

BILD reported about the cancellation of the German GP today due to the low attendance. Guess what the majority of the people think is the reason?

Comments like "Nobody pays for vacuum cleaners" and "New rules suck" got up to 1.000 likes.

Those comments are made outside this forum, you should know that doesn't count :p



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#20 Jon83

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:12

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?

Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

 

Henri

 

These investments have helped tip teams over the edge. It was completely unnecessary. 



#21 7MGTEsup

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:12

I will repeat that ...

 

Oh god, do we really need a  new thread for people to moan about the engine noises?

 

This is the internet all people ever seem to do is moan.



#22 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:15

Those comments are made outside this forum, you should know that doesn't count :p

 

Right. I always forget it  :p

 

And of those 'likes' how many actually attended, or have ever attended, the German GP?

 

 

That's not the point, is it? You said "sound won't be an issue". Obviously that's wrong.


Edited by Tourgott, 03 February 2015 - 11:15.


#23 SpartanChas

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:15

These investments have helped tip teams over the edge. It was completely unnecessary.


Caterham and Marussia were heading the same way as HRT before the new engines came along. It was sad to see them go, but it was inevitable.

#24 GreenMachine

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:16

I will repeat that ...
 
Oh god, do we really need a  new thread for people to moan about the engine noises?

Well, you wouldn't want them to be discussing something important, like the CVC vultures and the carve up of the sport's earnings.  This is the internet after all, and hardly the place for any serious topics.

 

Back in real life, I will be watching all, and probably attending at least one of, this year's races.  Because I am interested in the cars and the racers (and races), and the sound level is the least of my concerns.


Edited by GreenMachine, 03 February 2015 - 11:17.


#25 SpartanChas

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:25

Right. I always forget it  :p
 

 
 
That's not the point, is it? You said "sound won't be an issue". Obviously that's wrong.


So it's not because of ticket prices? Or Bernie? Or the fact that Nürburgring has no money? Both tracks lose money on every GP they host? No? Just the noise.

#26 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:27

That's not the point, is it? You said "sound won't be an issue". Obviously that's wrong.


Not when the actual impact of an 'issue' is below a certain threshold as to not cause any real problem. Some might not like it, but it only becomes a genuine issue beyond a specific point. 1000 'likes' on a website means squat. If you can show more meaningful figures, or spring evidence that this is 'an issue' then I am happy to stand corrected.

Edited by superden, 03 February 2015 - 11:28.


#27 maverick69

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:28

I think they sound a fair bit more guttural and throaty this year - with a few more Db's thrown in to the mix.

 

I like the sounds TBH. Certainly more than the monotone V8's.

 

But they're defiantly not as aurally pornographic as the last Ferrari V12 trying to break it's cylinder head bolts as it stormed through its rev range.



#28 Rinehart

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:31

how many different engine building companies are you looking forward to see?

Good chance that Honda, Mercedes and Renault won't return anymore after seeing their millions of investments being thrown away by the rule makers because of something so outrageous as.... not making a goud sound and not being loud enough......

 

Henri

 

I see you've spent well over a year trying to convince people like me (a 39 year old with a life long passion for motorsport), who do think that the kind of noise an F1 car makes is important - that it is silly, out-dated and not important at all.

 

Can I ask why you feel the need to try and change my opinion, why one opinion has to be right and the other wrong or why you think you might be successful in changing my opinion (otherwise why bother)?

 

For me, Its a sensation thing. F1 is multi-dimensional, the sound is one element of the experience that I enjoy, which has been largely removed. I hoped I'd get used to them, but it doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not getting used to these new engines, they're not as exciting to me. I can't see how that personal preference can be deemed to be wrong. 



#29 KTownDevil

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:33

 

And of those 'likes' how many actually attended, or have ever attended, the German GP?

 

 

Me and 5 friends were at Hockenheim and the sound was awful. We enjoyed the GP2 engines but all V6T were really bad. 

 

We'll go to Hockenheim this year and watch DTM + support races and pay 50€ for the whole weekend instead of 250€. 


Edited by KTownDevil, 03 February 2015 - 11:39.


#30 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:49

And it's the £/€/$ it costs that will cause the problem. For £50, people who don't like the sound would live with it. For £250, they won't. The sound isn't the big, long term issue, the costs are. Particularly in the persistent economic climate. The continued focus on the sound by a minority does nothing to help the long term future of the sport, but a lot to assist the increasingly out of touch attitude of those who run the sport for profit.

Why do you think Bernie keeps fixating on the noise 'issue'? Its certainly not because he gives a sh*t about the fans enjoyment ... he wants to distract those fans into focusing on the sound, after all a loud engine justifies that £250 ticket price, doesn't it.

Edited by superden, 03 February 2015 - 11:52.


#31 SCHUEYFAN

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:49

Hmm so my optimism of better sounding engines was a false dawn perhaps then?  I'll wait until the first race to decide on buying tickets to Montreal or else I go to Mosport to watch the ALMS to get my aural fix.  I will continue to watch F1 - just not in person.



#32 TheRacingElf

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:59

And it's the £/€/$ it costs that will cause the problem. For £50, people who don't like the sound would live with it. For £250, they won't. The sound isn't the big, long term issue, the costs are. Particularly in the persistent economic climate. The continued focus on the sound by a minority does nothing to help the long term future of the sport, but a lot to assist the increasingly out of touch attitude of those who run the sport for profit.

Why do you think Bernie keeps fixating on the noise 'issue'? Its certainly not because he gives a sh*t about the fans enjoyment ... he wants to distract those fans into focusing on the sound, after all a loud engine justifies that £250 ticket price, doesn't it.

I'm sure KTownDevil and his friends would happily pay €250 for a ticket if the cars would sound good though.



#33 pdac

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:02

Well, you wouldn't want them to be discussing something important, like the CVC vultures and the carve up of the sport's earnings.  This is the internet after all, and hardly the place for any serious topics.

 

True.

 

At least no one has posted one of those "This is what they used to sound like" videos yet.



#34 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:04

I see you've spent well over a year trying to convince people like me (a 39 year old with a life long passion for motorsport), who do think that the kind of noise an F1 car makes is important - that it is silly, out-dated and not important at all.

 

Can I ask why you feel the need to try and change my opinion, why one opinion has to be right and the other wrong or why you think you might be successful in changing my opinion (otherwise why bother)?

 

For me, Its a sensation thing. F1 is multi-dimensional, the sound is one element of the experience that I enjoy, which has been largely removed. I hoped I'd get used to them, but it doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not getting used to these new engines, they're not as exciting to me. I can't see how that personal preference can be deemed to be wrong. 

 

 

Rinehart,

 

You directly asked me something so I answer to you directly too

Make no mistake, I have nowhere near the complaints about the lack of nosie of the current engines like Tourgott and some others do. I can't say I really like the current noise but it is much better for me than the post 1995 V10s and last generation of V8s was.

 

My comment to Tourgott on which you reacted was written with the intention to express that I think it to be insane and rediculous to call for yet another major engine formula change ofter a mere three years. A period in which four companies have spend millions and see much of those efforst going through the drain because a new formula is installed because  the current engines don't please some of the fans because of being too silent and sounding not pleasant. This is one of the most rediculous arguments for any major rule change I have ever heard of in F1. And I wonder if Renault and to a lesser extend Honda and mercedes would be happy to have investe so much in their current engines and then are told that they can start all over again with a new concept just because the current engines is not loud enough.....

 

Engine noise and sound is indeed important but nowhere near important for me as it is to others, save one aspect. Due to the functioning of my hearing system and the fact that i can't cope with noise levels and certain kind of sounds I don't want the lound kind of engines of the past 20 years and if possible, withouth that hysterical, monotonous screaming we got from 1994 on.

 

Hope this helps to understand my reply a bit better, I had no intention to change your opinion with that post you reacted on.

 

Sincerely,

 

henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 February 2015 - 12:06.


#35 KTownDevil

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:05

I'm sure KTownDevil and his friends would happily pay €250 for a ticket if the cars would sound good though.

Yes we would. We attended every German Grandprix since 2005. These engines sound like vaccum cleaners and It makes no difference if you watch it on TV or live. 



#36 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:08

Then you are certifiable! This is the problem, people being suckered into thinking that engine sound alone somehow justifies increasingly laughable ticket prices. Bernie must be laughing his little socks off, as he strolls to the bank with his wads of cash. Le Mans tickets are a fraction of those in F1, for a weekend general entry pass. I get noise, no noise if you like the diesels, 4 days of events and racing and a party atmosphere.

F1, or anyone else for that matter, is deluded if it thinks a slightly louder engine not justifies ticket prices that are utterly detached from reality.

Edited by superden, 03 February 2015 - 12:09.


#37 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:23

Not when the actual impact of an 'issue' is below a certain threshold as to not cause any real problem. Some might not like it, but it only becomes a genuine issue beyond a specific point. 1000 'likes' on a website means squat. If you can show more meaningful figures, or spring evidence that this is 'an issue' then I am happy to stand corrected.

 

Those responsible (even the teams) agreed that something has to be done. I'm looking forward to next week when they decide, which engines we'll get 2016/17.

Is that enough evidence for you?



#38 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:46

the engines won't change (hopefully)



#39 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:50

Is that enough evidence for you?

Not really, fixating or placing attention onto a relatively minor issue to distract from the lack of action on a major one is hardly a new management tactic. It's tried and tested. Besides, the main issue there is output, not noise levels.

As long as the eardrum damaging high revs don't return, I don't care. Everything was a decline after the V12 anyway and I didn't mind V6T's the first time round. Quality, not quantity. Anyway, all this musing is futile, this is a dead-end debate. Either you like it, or you don't.

Edited by superden, 03 February 2015 - 12:53.


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#40 Tourgott

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 12:56

Not really, fixating or placing attention onto a relatively minor issue to distract from the lack of action on a major one is hardly a new management tactic. It's tried and tested. Besides, the main issue there is output, not noise levels.

 

Yeah, sure. And 9/11 was an inside job, Elvis is still alive and the Moon landing was fake.



#41 pdac

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 13:37

Yeah, sure. And 9/11 was an inside job, Elvis is still alive and the Moon landing was fake.

 

I was just discussing these things with Lord Lucan whilst I was out giving Shergar a bit of a run



#42 superden

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 13:38

Yeah, sure. And 9/11 was an inside job, Elvis is still alive and the Moon landing was fake.


If you say so, mwahahaha.

#43 David Lightman

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 15:47

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/31110580

 

I think they sound pretty good so far.



#44 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 16:39

That Honda sounds beastly, whether it keeps sounding like that remains to be seen.

#45 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 16:40

We're allowing this thread to stay on the basis that the question is being asked about the difference from 2014, and to that extent it's a 'new discussion'. If you really are bored with all these threads then simply do not contribute. You are welcome to ignore the thread if it contains nothing of interest to you.

#46 morrino

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 16:48

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/31110580

 

I think they sound pretty good so far.

 

Do you have another source?

 

 

Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.

 

Available to UK users only.



#47 chipmcdonald

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 17:48

This is the internet all people ever seem to do is moan.

 

0607-jagged-little-pill.jpg



#48 chipmcdonald

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 17:50

The Honda sounds out of tune, and it was making weird warbling sounds on the straight.  

 

It would be cool if that growling sound was really present on track, and loud enough to be heard - but obviously that is not the case.

 

Sorry, F1 2015 is not going to sound any more impressive or less Powered by Poulan than last year.



#49 P123

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 17:54

They sound fine. Slight improvement on last year.

#50 ninetyzero

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 18:06

We're allowing this thread to stay on the basis that the question is being asked about the difference from 2014, and to that extent it's a 'new discussion'. If you really are bored with all these threads then simply do not contribute. You are welcome to ignore the thread if it contains nothing of interest to you.

 

Well you're the boss, but personally I think this 'engine sounds' topic has been done to death and then some, it's just giving the same moaners from the other thread another chance to moan. For what it's worth I think the 2015 cars sound fine and I really don't see what the problem is, they sound better than last year. I guess some people like living in the past.