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The 2016 Rallying thread / WRC, ERC, RX, etc


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#1 AlexLangheck

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 23:32

Seeing as it's 31st Dec, time for a new year thread for all Rallying.

Sadly, no Jannerrallye this year.....but the Dakar starts on Saturday.......

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#2 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 01:53

I prefer Super 2000 regulation to R5 or WRC regulation.  It seems more fun and pure.  If only rules could be unified to simple Super 2000, so privateers could have outside chance for outright WRC victories. Does anyone agree with this? :)



#3 BRG

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 17:49

Silly question.  Everyone who really loves rallying agrees with it.



#4 ArnageWRC

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 20:25

S2000 should have been the way to go; there were plenty of Manufacturers - which should have meant plenty of competition. Alas, the FiA listened to Ford & Citroen who lobbied for the 1.6Turbo engine - which is what we got.

I could be a cynic and say the reason we got the 1.6T was to ensure less competition for Ford & Citroen...... I mean, we can't have a privateer/non factory car winning a WRC event, could we?



#5 EightGear

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 23:40

All hope for this year will be on the new Hyundai. If Paddon continues his progress and Neuville gets himself back together it may get interesting.

It already feels like a transitional year before the reset in 2017 without Toyota and Citroën coming back fulltime, though.

Edited by EightGear, 01 January 2016 - 23:40.


#6 AlexLangheck

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 09:59

I think everybody is relying on Hyundai to have got their new car right. Otherwise it will be extremely uninteresting; with VW dominating. I'm not expecting anything from M-Sport. Maybe when the PH Sport Citroens turn up will we get any excitement.

As for Toyota...hmm the car won't run until March??

#7 EightGear

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 12:15

I think everybody is relying on Hyundai to have got their new car right. Otherwise it will be extremely uninteresting; with VW dominating. I'm not expecting anything from M-Sport. Maybe when the PH Sport Citroens turn up will we get any excitement.

As for Toyota...hmm the car won't run until March??


Citroën will start running in April so I don't think that will be a problem really. Only VW is running their 17 car already for some months.

#8 ArnageWRC

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 12:45

Citroen will be fine - now they will be concentrating on the WRC. Toyota I'm not convinced about - I'd like to know how on earth Makinen got the deal. TMG have a huge facility in Cologne. It's mighty strange. 



#9 OvDrone

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 00:38

No Jannerrallye, bummer. :(

 

At least we have three rallies to look forward to in the winter months.



#10 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 00:51

At least we have three rallies to look forward to in the winter months.

Well... If we don't get any colder weather, it's not exactly a good sign for Rally Sweden...



#11 OvDrone

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 00:57

Well... If we don't get any colder weather, it's not exactly a good sign for Rally Sweden...

 

Double bummer.



#12 kosmic33

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 13:42

S2000 should have been the way to go; there were plenty of Manufacturers - which should have meant plenty of competition. Alas, the FiA listened to Ford & Citroen who lobbied for the 1.6Turbo engine - which is what we got.

I could be a cynic and say the reason we got the 1.6T was to ensure less competition for Ford & Citroen...... I mean, we can't have a privateer/non factory car winning a WRC event, could we?

In my opinion, for the fans at least, S2000 cars with a 2.5 or even 3.0 engine would've made an excellent WRC class.

At the end of the day, an s2000 is essentially a n/a WRC to begin with. At least 70% of the Fiesta s2000 carried over into the WRC

 

As for this years WRC, its really hard to see anything but VW domination  :cry:



#13 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 16:29

Double bummer.

It was a green Christmas this year, and when me and a buddy drove through one of the Norwegian stages the week before Christmas, it wasn't any snow at all, but a lot of dust from the gravel roads... And to think that the Norwegian stages usually have quite a bit more snow because it is higher up than the Swedish stages...



#14 Vepe1995

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 18:40

Regarding the snow situation in Sweden, how are the road conditions there? If the roads are frozen, the rally could be ran, even if there's no snow on the banks. Of course it's not the same without the banks, but...

 

Also, what are your opinions on the current R-classes? I think they're pretty good, and the structure is clear. I personally would tweak them a bit.

 

R1= 2wd, up to 1600cc NA/1200cc turbo, basically stock vehicles

R2= 2wd, up to 1600cc NA/1200cc turbo, more tuning allowed

R3= 2wd, up to 2000cc NA/1600cc turbo, same tuning level as R2, race engines allowed

R4= 2wd, over 2000cc NA/ up to 2000cc turbo, more tuning allowed than R2/3 (this would include RGT class), race engines allowed

R5= 4wd, over 1600cc NA/ up to 1600cc turbo , same level of tuning as current R5, race engines allowed (cars like Mitsu Evo or Subaru WRX would be allowed to have 2000cc turbo with the engine being production based)

R6= 4wd, over 1600cc NA/ up to 1600cc turbo (turbo production engines up to 2000cc), more tuning allowed than R5, race engines allowed (cars like Mitsu Evo or Subaru WRX would be allowed to have 2000cc turbo with the engine being production based) (this would be the replacement of the current WRC cars)

 

National homologation (like in RGT currently) is possible in all classes to get more cars.

 

This way you could have the same basic car in all classes. Let's say you have a 1600cc Ford Fiesta. As it is, it's in R1. Tune the car a bit, and you have yourself an R2. Stick a turbo in it and you have an R3. Build a 4wd system into it and you have a R5 and so on. This way you could start rallying in R1, when you get better you can move to the bigger classes without having to buy a new car at each step.



#15 kosmic33

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 19:13

If only it was that simple
Allowing more tuning to R2/R3 would ensure the death of the classes. They're already too expensive. €10000 minimum for an engine rebuild every 1500 stage km....

Group n (evo/Subaru) already have significantly more power than r5 so the last thing they need is more power.

Also R1/2/3 use unmodified bodyshells. These require a massive amount of modification to fit a 4wd drivetrain. That's why R5/s2000 (caged) bodyshells are 10 times the price of r2....

Also, you can't just "stick a turbo" on a n/a engine

As for Sweden. If there's no snow it's just a simple gravel rally

#16 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 21:54

Regarding the snow situation in Sweden, how are the road conditions there? If the roads are frozen, the rally could be ran, even if there's no snow on the banks. Of course it's not the same without the banks, but...

Right now it's getting pretty cold around here, falling down to minus 20 to 30 degrees, but it doesn't snow that much, and what comes down is so light, that a proper fart will blow it all away.



#17 Vepe1995

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 21:59

Yeah I know it's not that simple, but one can dream...

The one thing FIA should do immidiately is allow nationally homologated cars to run in the WRC. And I think they should make R5 the top category, as that could bring more entrants and possibly better competition.

And sweden without snow could be financially disatrous for the organisers as they have to repair the roads afterwards. Those studs cause a lot of damage... Could the rally be run on normal gravel tyres?

#18 Myrvold

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 22:01

And sweden without snow could be financially disatrous for the organisers as they have to repair the roads afterwards. Those studs cause a lot of damage... Could the rally be run on normal gravel tyres?

 

If they don't water the roads to get solid ice on the roads, and it doesn't snow, it will not run. Let's hope for some snow the next month.



#19 chunder27

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 23:46

Surely they can run on narrow gravel tyres.

 

You do not HAVE to run on studs, we didnt in the UK for decades, just ran thin forest tyres



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#20 BRG

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 21:58

 

R3= 2wd, up to 2000cc NA/1600cc turbo, same tuning level as R2, race engines allowed

What are these 'race engines' that you propose to allow?  Rallying has always used production engines.  Even exotica like the Stratos used a production Ferrari Dino V6.  There were a few 16 valve heads used on otherwise production engines (Avenger, Chevette HS and so on) but even these often became subsumed into production later on.  Allowing entirely specially built engines is a recipe for cost escalation.



#21 OvDrone

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 00:29

It was a green Christmas this year, and when me and a buddy drove through one of the Norwegian stages the week before Christmas, it wasn't any snow at all, but a lot of dust from the gravel roads... And to think that the Norwegian stages usually have quite a bit more snow because it is higher up than the Swedish stages...

 

I can handle green Xmases, but green winter rallies? Not so much.



#22 Myrvold

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 00:47

I can handle green Xmases, but green winter rallies? Not so much.

 

First time I've had a green Christmas in these parts of Norway ;)



#23 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 02:19

Citroen will be fine - now they will be concentrating on the WRC. Toyota I'm not convinced about - I'd like to know how on earth Makinen got the deal. TMG have a huge facility in Cologne. It's mighty strange. 

 

Can you explain this to me? I thought TMG were developing the cars.

 

My understanding is for Makinen to run the cars (operational matters) but TMG to develop and build the cars.


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 January 2016 - 02:21.


#24 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 02:24

What are these 'race engines' that you propose to allow? 

 

I believe Vepe means a production engine block that has been opened and rebuilt with upgraded pistons, rods, valvesprings and cams and so on put in.  Nothing crazy, just a standard built engine (with more reliability / potential ) as opposed to a sealed road car engine straight out off the showroom floor, as in the R1/R2. :)


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 January 2016 - 02:27.


#25 Vepe1995

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 06:06

I believe Vepe means a production engine block that has been opened and rebuilt with upgraded pistons, rods, valvesprings and cams and so on put in.  Nothing crazy, just a standard built engine (with more reliability / potential ) as opposed to a sealed road car engine straight out off the showroom floor, as in the R1/R2. :)

 

Yeah, basically that. I know it brings up the costs, but like I previously said, one can dream...



#26 chunder27

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 09:03

Lol, and the BDA. Not sure that used a production block, especially the alloy blodk versions! Chevette, Sunbeam both used an engine that was proddy yes but not common, Opel didmfor years use their iron bloxk before they rewlised it was garbage and asked Cosworth to make the 400 series.

#27 kosmic33

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 13:06

I believe Vepe means a production engine block that has been opened and rebuilt with upgraded pistons, rods, valvesprings and cams and so on put in.  Nothing crazy, just a standard built engine (with more reliability / potential ) as opposed to a sealed road car engine straight out off the showroom floor, as in the R1/R2. :)

So replace R2 with a s1600 engine and R3 with an F2 type engine?

There are many reasons s1600 & F2 were killed off, but the main one was €30000 engine rebuilds every 1200kms.....

 

R2 and R3 use quite a few "race" parts to get 190bhp/250bhp from those engines. More tuning always = more cost. Always

Only R1 uses what could be classed as a showroom engine, and thats essentially a beginners car



#28 BRG

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 13:31

Lol, and the BDA. Not sure that used a production block, especially the alloy blodk versions! Chevette, Sunbeam both used an engine that was proddy yes but not common, Opel didmfor years use their iron bloxk before they rewlised it was garbage and asked Cosworth to make the 400 series.

The BDA used a standard Corrina iron block originally and it was in any case a production engine in the RS1600 before it was a competition unit. Although that was always Ford's plan of course. Alloy blocks and such came along certainly for competition use and helped in the process of making rallying too costly and further away from its roots as a production based sport.

#29 chunder27

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 16:14

Not sure really that any world orientated sport can ever use too much production based stuff unless you actually want to watch Gp N all the time.

 

GpA originally fairly close, and lok what happened, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford, Lancia, Subaru all came to play. They could sell cars based on what they were doing in the most part.

 

Now we get stupid looking cars that look like some kid has stuck  a body kit on a basic car with Airfix cement, it bears no relation to anything that is sold and none really is interested save those that have been and always will be.

 

I have many friends that used to watch rallying all over the UK, now they only watch club single venue stuff. Says a lot



#30 kosmic33

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 22:53

 

Now we get stupid looking cars that look like some kid has stuck  a body kit on a basic car with Airfix cement, it bears no relation to anything that is sold and none really is interested save those that have been and always will be.

 

I have many friends that used to watch rallying all over the UK, now they only watch club single venue stuff. Says a lot

 

Funny thing is, these modern kits are just like the group b cars of old.

 

Problem in the UK is that theres no proper tarmac rallying which is easy to go watch whereas gravel rallying requires much walking, planning and suitable clothing to watch.

The British obsession with Historic escorts and a general lack of young talent these days (compared to the 90s) probably doesn't help



#31 kurski

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 09:17

Esa-Pekka Lappi said Savon-Sanomat morning broadsheet newspaper that his Skoda contract ends season end and welcome the fact that Toyota is interested in him.


Edited by kurski, 09 January 2016 - 09:17.


#32 Myrvold

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 20:55

Esa-Pekka Lappi said Savon-Sanomat morning broadsheet newspaper that his Skoda contract ends season end and welcome the fact that Toyota is interested in him.

Would mean that he also cut ties with EVEN Management, or that they do their first non-VAG deal.

 

In the weather report section. It's cold as hell around the Rally Sweden stages (at least on the Norwegian side) these days. -20-25, and will be for the next 2 weeks. Around 20cm snow today, but it is still so light that a proper fart will blow it away. However, with some watering on the stages, it will be a very solid ice-road.

Had a buddy driving some of the stages on the Finnskogen Rally today (it's a rally going in the same forest the week before Rally Sweden), he said that it wasn't extreme amounts of snow, but a hard and solid snow/ice foundation on the roads. Looking better than it did 10 days ago :)



#33 BRG

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 22:52

Leading British rally driver Paul Bird banned for drugs.



#34 Risil

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 23:15

One of the drivers for Paul Bird's WSBK team was caught using a team transporter to smuggle drugs in 2011. You'd think he'd have learned his lesson!



#35 chunder27

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 00:21

Old news I am afraid, been around for a few weeks.

 

The guy reminds of Mr Vic Lee

 

In all the bad ways.



#36 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 08:27

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#37 noikeee

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 12:48

Not bad at all.



#38 AlexLangheck

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 17:04

I find it quite apt that the M-Sport livery is released the same day that Ford are announced as sponsors/ car supplier of Team Sky Cycling team.

#39 BRG

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 17:41

Oh, have they outbid Jaguar then?  I thought that relationship would last longer.



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#40 kosmic33

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 18:15

I find it quite apt that the M-Sport livery is released the same day that Ford are announced as sponsors/ car supplier of Team Sky Cycling team.

Still, the ford stickers on msports cars haven't gotten any smaller either....

#41 Myrvold

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 23:06

Somethings never change it looks like :p

12508929_930073140373776_641249412217038



#42 BRG

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 19:59

You don't just crash by accident, you have to practice it.....



#43 Myrvold

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 18:52

Entries for Rally Sweden have closed. Not that many cars, but still a good field.

56 cars in the WRC event and 48 historics.

 

16 WRC Cars. Including Henning Solberg, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Kris Meeke (it says Chris on the entry list) and Valery Gorban in a MINI WRC. No Kubica for Sweden.

27 R5 cars(!)

3 S2000 cars. Including Johan Kristofferson ( Winner of STCC and Superstars - the Italian series with V8 cars in 2012, 3rd in WRX 2015 and dominant Porsche Cup winner in Sweden for a couple of years)

4 R4/Gr.N Cars

1 R3 Car

4 R2 Cars - One is driven by a Norwegian TV-presenter...

1 R1 car

 

As a person who doesn't like the FWD cars, I like that there are so few of them, and while I would've liked some more WRC cars, I do like that there are so many R5 on the list!

 

No Petter Solberg in the Historics this year, but loads of fun cars, including three Quattros, couple of 911's, a 323 4WD and a huge Ford Falcon :)

 

Looking forward to the rally now, for the first time in 10 years or so, I'll be able to watch more than one stage.



#44 Myrvold

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 19:53

WRC car numer 17 is in for Sweden. Mait Maarend from Estonia, in a second MINI Cooper WRC for EUROLAMP World Rally Team (together with Gorban in that team).



#45 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:15

M-Sport is still fighting to fund its presence on all 14 rounds of the 2016 World Rally Championship despite confirmation from the FIA of the firm's manufacturer status

"We don't have the budget confirmed for all 14, so I can't tell you definitively that we will be at every event."

http://beta.autospor...-season-funding



#46 Sheepmachine

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:26

Monte may be Kubica's last rally due to funding issues. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122490

#47 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 13:18

I feel this year, in part due to being glued to Dirt Rally, but also due to having a long standing passing interest in WRC I am going to try to get more into the sport.  Where's my best place to start for following the rallies.  I have a soft spot for M-Sport due to having owned a Ford Fiesta many years ago (  :drunk: ) but their drivers don't seem very inspirational.  



#48 EightGear

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 13:55

Well, Ostberg is a safe bet: consistent point scorer and always in the mix for the podium. Lacking outright speed though, will never be world champion. Only realistic chance to fight for wins will be in Sweden.

Camilli is a risky choice, but one which will be very intersting. He's 28 but doesn't have a lot of experience. Wilson hopes to see a future Ogier in him (French, winning the FFSA Rallye Jeunes competition, etc.). Time will tell, he'll have a steep learning curve.

 

WRC+ offers live stages, full (daily) highlights, live maps and a lot of onboard for about €5,- per month or something ike €40,- a year. However, onboard quality still leaves a lot to be desired for me personally.


Edited by EightGear, 15 January 2016 - 13:56.


#49 chunder27

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 14:04

Get out to some local events, you will see more action, learn more and probably get to know a few folk aswell.

 

Far better than going to WRC events that are tightly controlled and you are sheep herded around a bit.

Depends where you are from really.



#50 Sheepmachine

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 14:26

I feel this year, in part due to being glued to Dirt Rally, but also due to having a long standing passing interest in WRC I am going to try to get more into the sport. Where's my best place to start for following the rallies. I have a soft spot for M-Sport due to having owned a Ford Fiesta many years ago ( :drunk: ) but their drivers don't seem very inspirational.

I find the best way to follow the wrc is using rally radio, live reporting from stages and entertaining commentary is really enjoyable. :)
Edit: Forgot the link :blush: http://www.wrc.com/l...opup_radio.html

Edited by Sheepmachine, 15 January 2016 - 14:29.