24 replies to this topic

[DUFFY]

Can any one please help me with where this event is taking place (sorry photos are small, the only ones I have)

The car is a Rochdale Olympic, registered mid 1963. The car still looks fairly new so photos could be between 1963 and 1966?

If I know the event I may be able to locate a programme and identify the driver.

 

Regards, Tony Stanton (Rochdale Olympic History Archive)

 

 

[bradbury west]

I have no real idea about it, but the bottom one looks coastal and the top rustic, so possibly a S Devon or N Cornwall hill. Tregrehan? Also, was Oliver's Mount, Scarborough, running in the early 60s as a hill?
Roger Lund

If the car was new, then the PG reg was Surrey CC, so it may have been a S Coast venue. Not much help really..........

Edited by bradbury west, 02 January 2016 - 11:26.

[Allan Lupton]

Firle, perhaps?

[RS2000]

I would also suggest Firle.

Or Bruton? (no idea what that looked like) 

[bradbury west]

Did Bodiam have a sea view?.  Questions for RAP, methinks. RS2000, did you mean Braunton?

Roger Lund

[DUFFY]

Please ignore things like the Rochdale reg no as this may be misleading. I think the clues are in the scenery.

The 1st photo looks like the assembly area before moving up to the start line and the interesting point is the brick wall.

The 2nd is in the paddock and we are looking across a public car park and in the background is the line of the Hill Climb course towards the top of the hill. I may be wrong, but that is how I see the view.

I think it will be someone who has competed there in the 1960s who will recognize the location

 

 Regards, Tony Stanton (Rochdale Olympic History Archive)

[Rupertlt1]

No sea view at Bodiam (sea is ten miles away). No brick wall at Firle, doesn't look like it. Brunton started in brick farmyard - ran at that time? First pic looks like startline? RGDS RLT

 

PS: I suggest you contact Simon Taylor who was at Brunton around this time and may have documents. I think you can PM him from here.

 

PPS: I have the full Brunton results from 21 April 1963, no Rochdale.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 January 2016 - 15:08.

[RS2000]

Westbrook Hay had a start with a fence like the first photo - but on both sides I think. Maybe a wall on one side was further back from start?

I'm sure we've had photos on here of a sprint with a wall like that at the start but it's not that if both are same venue.

 

Second photo is very Salisbury Plain-like (yes, I meant Brunton - Collingbourne Ducis - not Bruton or Braunton).

 

Seems to be what passes for high summer here.

Edited by RS2000, 02 January 2016 - 16:48.

[RAP]

I too am pretty sure this is Brunton. From the start the course ran left then uphill to a sweeping right hander round the "outside" of the curve of the hill, which matches the line of spectators. The hill operated from 1951 to 1970 so it is the right period. I have few entry lists and none match 89 Rochdale.

 

RAP

[bradbury west]

Just out of interest I googled Brunton hillclimb. Msport say in 1957 issue that it started between two farm buildings.

I did the same for Westbrook Hay hillclimb and was rewarded with links to clips of David Roscoe films of Westbrook and Stapleford in 1959, among others. All marvellous stuff.

Roger Lund

[pete53]

With my fashionista hat firmly placed on my head I would suggest that the date of this photograph would be pre-1965. Of the  two young women clearly visible in the picture both have hemlines firmly anchored around/below the kneecaps. Shorter hemlines started to appear during 1964 and were fairly common among young women by 1965. Unfortunately there are not many cars in the background that are clearly identifiable -  a Riley RM behind the Rochdale, and VW Beetle and a Mini in the field in the distance? So 1963 or 1964 for me.

 

As for the location, a Google search doesn't throw up much. Is the photo a picture of the start line? A photo from 1951 shows the start line at Brunton as being very narrow with what appears to be brick buildings on either side - presumably the farm buildings mentioned above by bradbury west - and not corresponding to the photo in question.

Edited by pete53, 02 January 2016 - 19:56.

[D-Type]

Does Julian Hunt, author of Motorsport Explorer, (aka 'fuzzi') still post on here?

[Rupertlt1]

Brunton track was extended in 1959 - I think by adding a chunk at the bottom?

 

See http://forums.autosp...-2#entry6509883

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 January 2016 - 20:09.

[fuzzi]

Does Julian Hunt, author of Motorsport Explorer, (aka 'fuzzi') still post on here?

 

Hello, yes I still do post.

 

I have been searching through the copies of prints that I was sent as part of my research and I think we are looking at Brunton. The pig wire (square mesh fence) in the foreground looks very like that on a Norman Langstone photo, which was part of the late Bob Light's collection. The print I have is only a xerox copy and the view point is across the road from the Paddock area with a 'downs like' view in the distance. As a help to pinning down the identification of the venue, there is a Lotus sports on the line (possibly an 8)  on the line Registration 5 BPH and running No. 69 with two parallel white lines running forward from the full-width screen to the number roundel. Any Lotus experts out there?

Edited by fuzzi, 03 January 2016 - 09:20.

[Tim Murray]

5 BPH was the Lotus XI originally bought by Major Rupert Robinson for Innes Ireland to race. It features in these earlier threads:

Golden Acres?

Major Rupert Robinson

Edited by Tim Murray, 03 January 2016 - 10:00.

[fuzzi]

Ah thanks Tim. I cannot see the rear wing or headrest in the photo hence my guess at an Eight.

 

ETA I should have said the (colour) photo shows the car in dark green or possibly black and the driver has a light blue helmet with visor and red overalls.

Edited by fuzzi, 03 January 2016 - 11:08.

[Rupertlt1]

"curiouser and curiouser" - 5 BPH could be an 1,172 cc Ford powered Lotus Eleven driven by Bob Staples or Canadian Murray Shill in a Coventry-Climax engined version. (Shill was working at MG at Abingdon circa 1959-1961 so would not have far to travel to Brunton.)  Presumably the pic is b+w - is the car light or dark? RGDS RLT

 

PS: I posted before seeing post #16 - could the car at Brunton be this car? https://www.facebook...&type=1

BRG would point to Shill (see thread re Major Rupert Robinson), before he painted the car yellow.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 January 2016 - 11:30.

[RS2000]

Brunton now seems to be the front runner. The only other off the wall suggestion I could throw in is Whiteway Hill (Lulworth Gunnery Ranges) which ran in 1964 (for closed cars only because of barbed wire). It is the wall that seems to scupper that although the "downs" photo is quite reminiscent of the ridge line. To have a wall, it would have had to start in the "lost" Tyneham Village and I'm fairly sure it didn't. The 63 RAC Rally stage passed through Tyneham, using the unsurfaced track from Whiteway Hill but it doesn't seem to fit for an all tarmac hill climb.  

Edited by RS2000, 03 January 2016 - 12:21.

[Rupertlt1]

Where was the Brunton hillclimb course?

 

https://www.google.c...12975,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0x59d4ddebe46b62f5

 

Can anybody help?

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 January 2016 - 13:30.

[Sebastian Tombs]

In the early fifties Brunton started virtually in the farmyard.  Here's Jeff Sparrowe in the actual 1939 White/Anthony Morgan 4-4 Le Mans car FXD 280 (lent by the Factory) but sporting the registration plate of his own very successful 4-4 at Brunton in 1951.

 

 

ST

[fuzzi]

Brunton now seems to be the front runner. The only other off the wall suggestion I could throw in is Whiteway Hill (Lulworth Gunnery Ranges) which ran in 1964 (for closed cars only because of barbed wire). It is the wall that seems to scupper that although the "downs" photo is quite reminiscent of the ridge line. To have a wall, it would have had to start in the "lost" Tyneham Village and I'm fairly sure it didn't. The 63 RAC Rally stage passed through Tyneham, using the unsurfaced track from Whiteway Hill but it doesn't seem to fit for an all tarmac hill climb.  

Definitely not Lulworth Gunnery Ranges - the only entries allowed were only sports cars due to the wire fences either side of the road and the photo I have shows single-seaters in the paddock.

[Stephen W]

Brunton (Wiltshire)  1.75 miles North of Collingbourne Ducis. Approached by A338 from Collingbourne Ducis. (1956 & 1962 RAC Blue Books)

[Sebastian Tombs]

Go here for a free period read if you don't have the issue.

http://www.motorspor...l-climb-brunton

 

ST

 

Edit typo

Edited by Sebastian Tombs, 04 January 2016 - 16:10.

[DUFFY]

Thanks everyone for your help “Brunton” it is then.

 

http://www.motorspor...ge/june-1957/39

 

Page 39 Pictorial Review in the same MotorSport, scroll down 1/3 of the page, on right “click to zoom” top right hand photograph shows a view from the

top right hand corner down the fields to the start. The opposite view to my photograph of the Rochdale in the paddock.

Seems they had 3 meetings a year, April, June and September, so I just need to look for Programmes from the 1963 onwards to identify the driver.

 

 Regards, Tony Stanton (Rochdale Olympic History Archive) 

 

ps) on the left of the page 5 BPH with Innes Ireland at Goodwood.

Edited by DUFFY, 04 January 2016 - 18:30.

[Rupertlt1]

Tony,

 

This looks like your target area:

 

1963
April 21 [no Rochdale.]
June 16, BARC SW Centre, P.Westbury (Felday Daimler) 25.20 <ref>Autosport June 28th Vol.26 No.26 Pg.924</ref>
September 13, Patsy Burt, Cooper-Climax

1964
April 19, BARC, A.E. Marsh, Marsh-Climax, 27.00 sec, rain <ref>Autosport, May 1, 1964, Page 625.</ref>
June 13, J.A.White, Petty-JAP, 26.59 <ref>Autosport June 19th pg 905 Vol 28 No 25</ref>
September ?, Patsy Burt, Cooper-Climax

1965
April 18 BARC, Ian Swift, Cooper-Ford 4.7-litre, 25.89 sec, sunny but slippery <ref>Autosport, April 23, 1965, Page 625.</ref>
June 13, BARC SW Centre, T. Smith, Cooper JAP 1100, 25.38 <ref>Autosport June 18th Vol.30 No.5 Page 968.</ref>
Sept 5, R. Payne (Hillman Imp) no time given <ref>Autosport Sept 17th Pg 471 Vol 31 No 12</ref>

1966
April 3, BARC, Tom Elton (Lotus 22 1600) 26.81 sec <ref>Autosport April 8th pg 554, Vol 32 No 14</ref>
June 12, BARC, D. Harris (DMF) 25.27 sec <ref>Autosport June 24th pg 1078 Vol 32 No 25</ref> [Billed as 42nd Brunton.]
?

 

Two possible sources: B.A.R.C. archives at Thruxton, B.A.R.C. SW archivist who is/was Graham Masters.  RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 04 January 2016 - 19:07.