Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Visibility from the Halo cockpit


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 pvg1

pvg1
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 January 2016 - 16:03

Will the drivers be able to see the start lights?



Advertisement

#2 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 January 2016 - 19:07

Or anything else?

I miss the days when men were men and raced cars.

#3 Canuck

Canuck
  • Member

  • 2,384 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 26 January 2016 - 20:21

And were routinely tossed out of their cars mid-track, shredded their faces on the pavement, were burned alive in invisible (or not) fuel fires all for our amusement...bunch of limp-wristed sissies today.

https://vimeo.com/20247765

 

I humbly suggest that if today's racing doesn't contain enough danger for you, that you fill that requirement with your own skin.



#4 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 January 2016 - 20:52

I know what you mean, but it's gone too far. I've been intimate with this sport since 1963, so please don't presume what my interests are.

FWIW, I've raced thousands of miles in 120-mph karts, and have climbed mountains for 35 years. Formula One has become a tired shell for the overdone safety of everyone involved, and thus has lost much of its sporting greatness. I have no interest in watching people suffer or die and lost a mentor and good friend in a horrid crash at Indy in 1982, and many other friends as well, but watching racing through a fence 300 feet from a track eliminates most of it's thrill appeal. It's not supposed to be an entirely risk-free venture.

#5 Canuck

Canuck
  • Member

  • 2,384 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 27 January 2016 - 03:26

The number of genuinely involved racers, professional F1 team members and other "real deal" folks that contribute here generally preclude me from making assumptions about anyone's knowledge, interest in and experience with the sport. Doesn't stop me from shooting my mouth off about my opinions but I don't presume to know anything about anyone else outside of things they've told us.

 

That's great that you've done the things you listed, but it in no way removes the grossness of demanding an increase in the personal risk of other people involved in what is (now) really little more than a multi-billion dollar car-based entertainment industry. If you want to field your own team and act as your own driver and put yourself at risk, I have absolutely zero problem with that until you start deciding what is acceptable risk for everyone else.  Now someone or some committee somewhere does make that decision and it's based on dollars so I'm not suggesting it's ideal now, but this isn't what it was in 1963. 20-ish manufacturers, more than 50 drivers, 30 teams and lots of privateers. That was still balls-out racing, testosterone and ego. Today it's not balls out, it's bucks out. So when you have a team spending hundreds of millions of dollars and you're their driver, that's pressure that didn't exist in 1963. Pressure to exceed your risk threshold, not for you, not for your ego, but for someone else's money.

 

The cars are so much faster with average speeds so much higher that the risk is already that much greater. You wouldn't climb without anchors because hey, climbing isn't supposed to be risk free. Why should drivers? In fairness, I don't know where you draw the line - closed cockpits, covered wheels... I'm fully on-board that this ain't granny's needlepoint stich-and-bitch night, but sacrificing driver's lives for entertainment's sake seems rather Romanesque.



#6 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 27 January 2016 - 03:59

Whatever creative interpretations you wish to "shout your mouth off" about are fine by me.

Have fun with that.

#7 pvg1

pvg1
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:22

Exactly for safety, I ask the question.

A closed cockpit jet-style I imagine has some appeal to me. It looks better. Getting in and out of the car is probably easier as compared tot the halo.

But we'll see what they come up with.

 

They should include a driver in the design pictures.



#8 MatsNorway

MatsNorway
  • Member

  • 2,822 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 29 January 2016 - 16:03

No one is against safety. As long as stuff is fast and relatively "affordable" F1 unfortunatly is neither if we take the available technology into consideration.

 

Im all for a top fuel like style but with say a pipe in the upper part/edge on the windscreen denying impacts from wheels from the front.

 

tf_force_brittany_sat.jpg


Edited by MatsNorway, 29 January 2016 - 16:04.


#9 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 January 2016 - 16:34

For me and many others, any compromise has to address safety and visibility of the driver. In drag racing, there's no time to see the driver at work. In Formula One, I believe that's a key role in it's entertainment.

I also wonder if further enclosing drivers will backfire in situations demanding a quick exit, and if deflection issues like Massa's will be deterred or made worse.

In the end, the less we see the driver working and the more we create a prototype-esque formula, the less Formula racing we get. A canopy could be interesting if allowing even more driver function viewing, but if we go too far for safety the final affliction may well be driverless cars. At that point, I won't care about any of it anymore.

#10 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 70,106 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 January 2016 - 16:51

Why can't they do a bigger, but sloped wind screen? That's pretty much what that dragster is running(but the viewing for the spectator is blocked by the opaque material further back which an F1 car wouldn't have. 



#11 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 January 2016 - 17:00

I wonder that, too Ross... but would something like a polycarbonate be strong enough?

If it were to be broken, we could see a fatality from an otherwise injury-free situation.

#12 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 70,106 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 January 2016 - 17:33

Why would it be a fatality? If a flying piece of debris is enough to pierce the cockpit, it was going to screw up the driver without it? 



#13 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 January 2016 - 18:58

Fair point. I'm probably overestimating the cutting power of Lexan but a big enough chard could be a problem -- as it seems we're mostly down to freak accidents.

One potential solution might be a series of ultra-thin, boomerang-shaped strips behind a windscreen -- or sandwiched between two. Might sound strange, but might be a solution. It would have prevented Massa's injuries, for one, and wouldn't affect exit space.

#14 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 January 2016 - 19:03

Harvested elsewhere here and per my earlier comments:

Quote of  one racer.... S Moss:
"I certainly had an appreciation of the danger which to me was part of the pleasure of racing. To me now racing is – the dangers are taken away: if it's difficult, they put in a chicane. So really now the danger is minimal – which is good, because people aren't hurt. But for me the fact that I had danger on my shoulder made it much more exciting. 



#15 gruntguru

gruntguru
  • Member

  • 7,637 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 31 January 2016 - 23:19

Never heard of him.

 

F1 exists for the benefit of the spectators not the participants. If a driver is not satisfied with the balance of safety, excitement, remuneration, adulation etc - there are other series.



#16 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:23

Bravo. :-)