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2016 Super Formula season


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#51 BT44/45

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 09:18

bad start. lock up in the first corner. failed overtaking attempt to regain third. spin. retirement. unworthy i tell you. never mind vandoorne had a brake problem. haters will be haters. on to motegi.

 

congrats to de oliveira.



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#52 Kev00

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 09:38

https://mobile.twitt...2091905/video/1

#53 Fisico54

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 11:24

on a semi-wet track, he was only three tenths quicker than the next driver. i think the gap has to be at least three seconds, to deserve a chance in F1.

You do realise these are experienced drivers on their home tracks not muppets? In what formula like this with a couple of chassis and engine combos can you expect a 3 sec gap. I suspect you're trolling.

#54 BT44/45

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 11:39

You do realise these are experienced drivers on their home tracks not muppets? In what formula like this with a couple of chassis and engine combos can you expect a 3 sec gap. I suspect you're trolling.

 

 

 

i thought my post was so OTT, that i didn't think putting this ...  ;) ... in there would be necessary. obviously, i was wrong. please accept my sincere apologies. 

 

so ... yes, i do realize he's in a very competitive field, with excellent drivers and teams. i do follow this sport, this sport and not just F1, for a very long time with great interest. trolling? i'll leave that to the devoted fanboys.



#55 Viryfan

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 15:11

Qualy results in Motegi

http://superformula....4/qresult.shtml


Edited by Viryfan, 20 August 2016 - 15:12.


#56 BRG

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 18:10

Maybe he'll do better in the race....



#57 muramasa

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 18:57

Sekiguchi won :D

He and Lotterer done superb

Most scorer incl Vandoorne did good job :D



#58 CJFG

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 22:48

Vandoorne's presence has spurred me to watch Super Formula as often as possible this season (I've caught the odd glimpse in the past.) On the whole he hasn't set the world alight but in all honesty he was never going to (given a different car, circuits he's never seen before, tyres that last seemingly forever in comparison to F1 and GP2.) He's had a mixed bag so far with a podium at the Suzuka and the brake failure at Fuji, but his calibre has attracted more exposure for the championship.

Anyway, getting to my main point, why don't more international drivers give this a go? They may be slower than an F1 car in terms of speed but aero-dynamically they're pretty damn close. It seems like the type of series that could prep drivers for F1 or IndyCars (I rank Super Formula just about level with GP2 perhaps?) Just a thought, I'm wondering what others think?

Edited by CJFG, 22 August 2016 - 11:22.


#59 Myrvold

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 00:07

Because it is in Japan, and there are many years since Japanese F3/Formula Nippon was any kind of a feeder series to F1. Last driver coming from Nippon(Super Formula) was Ralph Firman in 2003, and before that, Pedro de la Rosa and Esteban Tuero raced in 97. While Sutil was the last one coming from Japanese F3 in 2007.

You might get a solid, paid racing career in Japan, but you very often wave goodbye to a career in Europe at the same point, or in the US. You might get a WEC/LMS deal together with it, but that's where you will end up. That might not be for everyone, as the culture differences are quite big.

 

It's a far cry from the 93 F3000 (Nippon and Super Formula) season i Japan, which had Irvine, Frentzen, Salo, Ratzenberger, Apicella and Naspetti, 5 of then who would debut in F1 that year or the next, and one who had some F1 races, and also got his last that same year. Or the 91 season, with even more drivers who had been in, or would get into F1, including Katayama and a German called Michael Schumacher.


Edited by Myrvold, 22 August 2016 - 00:07.


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#60 flickerf1

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 00:23

Because it is in Japan, and there are many years since Japanese F3/Formula Nippon was any kind of a feeder series to F1. Last driver coming from Nippon(Super Formula) was Ralph Firman in 2003, and before that, Pedro de la Rosa and Esteban Tuero raced in 97. While Sutil was the last one coming from Japanese F3 in 2007.

You might get a solid, paid racing career in Japan, but you very often wave goodbye to a career in Europe at the same point, or in the US. You might get a WEC/LMS deal together with it, but that's where you will end up. That might not be for everyone, as the culture differences are quite big.

It's a far cry from the 93 F3000 (Nippon and Super Formula) season i Japan, which had Irvine, Frentzen, Salo, Ratzenberger, Apicella and Naspetti, 5 of then who would debut in F1 that year or the next, and one who had some F1 races, and also got his last that same year. Or the 91 season, with even more drivers who had been in, or would get into F1, including Katayama and a German called Michael Schumacher.

Didn't Marcus win the Japanese F3 championship in 2008?

#61 Myrvold

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 00:34

Didn't Marcus win the Japanese F3 championship in 2008?

 

Ye, but he had 4 GP2 seasons before getting in to F1, I didn't count that, as the others went straight from Japan to F1. (Schumacher was just mentioned because of the fun fact that he did one single race in Japanese F3000)


Edited by Myrvold, 22 August 2016 - 00:35.


#62 Anonymouse

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 01:51

It seems like the type of series that could prep drivers for F1 or IndyCars (I rank Super Formula just about level with GP2 perhaps?) Just a thought, I'm wondering what others think?

Super Formula is an equivalent to Indycar (senior level national single seater series), it couldn't and shouldn't be a feeder to the American series. In fact, all drivers who have raced in both over the last ten years have had better results in Indycar than FN/SF. Not a large sample size, but true nonetheless.


Edited by Anonymouse, 22 August 2016 - 01:56.


#63 Anja

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 11:26

For me, SF right now is in that awkward position where it's not really a feeder series anymore, but also not quite on the top level. I'd like to see it expand a bit - the current cars are very nice, with a bigger calendar including other Asian circuits it could become a nice, proper alternative for F1 or IndyCar. 

 

Yeah, I realize it's just wishful thinking. 


Edited by Anja, 22 August 2016 - 11:29.


#64 CJFG

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 11:35

Super Formula is an equivalent to Indycar (senior level national single seater series), it couldn't and shouldn't be a feeder to the American series. In fact, all drivers who have raced in both over the last ten years have had better results in Indycar than FN/SF. Not a large sample size, but true nonetheless.

 

Really I was just trying to gauge where others saw Super Formula in the grand scheme of things. I still think about GP2 level personally; most drivers in SF are better than the likes of Armand, Canamasas and Jeffri but not Evans, Gasly and Sirotkin, etc.

You're right that a few have dabbled in both over recent times. Baguette and De Oliveira are the most recent I can think of; the former ran at Indianapolis once or twice (and led for a few laps if my memory serves me well), the latter did a one-off with Conquest at Motegi about four or five years ago.

Edited by CJFG, 22 August 2016 - 11:41.


#65 KongKurs

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 11:40

For me, SF right now is in that awkward position where it's not really a feeder series anymore, but also not quite on the top level. I'd like to see it expand a bit - the current cars are very nice, with a bigger calendar including other Asian circuits it could become a nice, proper alternative for F1 or IndyCar. 

 

Yeah, I realize it's just wishful thinking. 

 

I read this like it was Stoffel 'Fandoorne', who was in an awkward position :rotfl:



#66 CJFG

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:05

For me, SF right now is in that awkward position where it's not really a feeder series anymore, but also not quite on the top level. I'd like to see it expand a bit - the current cars are very nice, with a bigger calendar including other Asian circuits it could become a nice, proper alternative for F1 or IndyCar. 

 

Yeah, I realize it's just wishful thinking. 

 

It's not too remote an idea though. Add one or two more races in Asia, maybe at some non-F1 circuits to begin with where the fees won't be exorbitant (Buriram (Thailand), Penbay (Taiwan), Sentul (Indonesia) plus a few in China too), and attempt to include more international drivers (wiend more over from Super GT like Cassidy, Kovalainen and Turvey possibly) and the standard would gradually climb. It would be a start at the very least.

Edited by CJFG, 22 August 2016 - 12:51.


#67 messy

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:38

Super Formula has the cars and technical level to be a genuine Indycar-style alternative top tier racing series, but not the drivers or the profile IMO. Seeing the likes of Kovalainen and Turvey move across and compete in it would raise the bar higher for sure. 



#68 Kev00

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:51

I don't actually think the quality of drivers is a problem. I certainly don't think the likes of Turvey and Kovalainen would make much of an impact. Would like to see a few more cars out there though, and when there are only two suppliers it doesn't help that Toyota is much better than Honda. Also the cars/tyres doesn't exactly make for great racing.

#69 CJFG

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 12:59

I don't actually think the quality of drivers is a problem. I certainly don't think the likes of Turvey and Kovalainen would make much of an impact. Would like to see a few more cars out there though, and when there are only two suppliers it doesn't help that Toyota is much better than Honda. Also the cars/tyres doesn't exactly make for great racing.

 

Agree 100% on the tyres. SF's Yokohamas are the total opposite of F1's Pirellis, lasting forever and a day with no drop-off or cliff. Granted they can push and push every lap but the only over-taking does seem to be during the pit-stops and that's it.

Vandoorne mentioned something along similar lines (the lack of overtaking due to the tyres) only a few weeks ago.

Here's the link.
http://www.motorspor...re-wear-802402/

Edited by CJFG, 22 August 2016 - 13:00.


#70 Anonymouse

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 19:18

You're right that a few have dabbled in both over recent times. Baguette and De Oliveira are the most recent I can think of; the former ran at Indianapolis once or twice (and led for a few laps if my memory serves me well), the latter did a one-off with Conquest at Motegi about four or five years ago.

I was referring to Mutoh and Matsuura, the only two drivers who have done full seasons in both series recently. Mutoh finished a season 10th in Indycar, best finish in FN/SF was 14th. Matsuura finished 13th in Indycar, 18th in FN.

 

Baguette and Sato haven't quite completed a full season in both, though it can be noted that both have a better race result in Indycar than SF. Baguette has finished 7th in an Indycar race, best result in SF is 8th. Sato is a race winner in Indycar, best result of 8th in 9 FN/SF races.

 

I would discount the likes of Kanaan and Oliveira from the comparison as they only did one offs in the other series.


Edited by Anonymouse, 22 August 2016 - 19:22.


#71 Risil

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 19:23

Oliveira was pretty impressive in his one-off in Indycar. Shame he didn't do more.

 

Given what Lotterer, Nakajima and Vandoorne do when they're in Europe, it's safe to say the standard of driving in Super Formula is pretty high. Although you can never really tell until you give them 800+ horsepower. :p

 

I was under the impression that SuperGT is the bigger deal in Japan?



#72 Prost1997T

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 19:24

Baguette's 7th was at the Indy 500 (his best road course finish was 11th). https://en.wikipedia..._Series_results

 

Don't think Sato ever did a full SF season? Both series are totally different from when Mutoh was Stateside.

 

Too many other variables to be honest (not just the track types but teams etc).


Edited by Prost1997T, 22 August 2016 - 19:26.


#73 noikeee

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:31

Apparently Stoffel just got his first win at Okayama race 1. Quick glance at championship standings in Wikipedia suggests he's up to 2nd overall, although the title battle is looking ridiculous open between everyone.



#74 Prost1997T

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:36

Apparently Stoffel just got his first win at Okayama race 1. Quick glance at championship standings in Wikipedia suggests he's up to 2nd overall, although the title battle is looking ridiculous open between everyone.

 

Yeah, the pole sitter (Nakajima) stalled and was sent to the back, and Vandoorne (starting 3rd) beat Kunimoto into turn 1. http://www.motorspor...den-win-825094/

 

Not worth as many points because it was carried foward from the cancelled Autopolis round. Tomorrow's race pays the full 10 for winning.



#75 Muppetmad

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 11:10

Nicely done by Vandoorne. Hopefully tomorrow's race will be similarly strong for him.



#76 WitnessX

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 12:14

Apparently Stoffel just got his first win at Okayama race 1. Quick glance at championship standings in Wikipedia suggests he's up to 2nd overall, although the title battle is looking ridiculous open between everyone.

 

The table was incorrect. It's now been corrected.

https://en.wikipedia...la_Championship

 

According to the official site as I understand it, is that if there is a weekend with two races (like this weekend) then each race will only get half the points (5->0.5 instead of 10->1). There are two qualifying sessions and there is 1 point for each pole.

 

Anyway, interesting to see old friend Narain Karthikeyan getting a podium, he's not been doing much until now. 



#77 midgrid

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 15:07

It's pretty incredible that the championship leader has scored less than two wins' worth of points after five races, even allowing for the fact that full scores have not been awarded for all of them.  Literally the entire field is in championship contention after half-way through the season, including anyone else who only starts competing from this point onwards!

 

Also strange to see Kobayashi nowhere this year after a decent first season in 2015.


Edited by midgrid, 10 September 2016 - 15:08.


#78 messy

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 18:12

Glad to see him get his first win. It's a competitive series SF. Not to mention quite a tricky one to come into when you've only raced in Europe.

#79 chipmcdonald

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 22:59

 

The fastest laps were a bit odd as they seemed to be on the out laps from the pits. The 1st sectors were quick so I think they were just timing from the pit exit line. Fastest laps in the race were in the 1.41s

 

It's still ridiculous that F1 spends how much more for that second? And " Drivers who have competed in SUPER FORMULA say the cars achieve cornering speeds that are even higher than in Formula One.". At 400 hp down, they could qualify in F1 with an "old" V10 or V8.

Kobayashi, Lotter, Nakajima, Vandoorne - just let these guys line up at the back of the grid in Singapore....

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#80 ezequiel

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 14:01

So Kunimoto won race 2, Vandoorne was 7th. In the championship it's a 1-2 for INGING with Kunimoto ahead of current champion Ishiura, Lotterer is 3rd Sekiguchi 4th and Vandoorne 5th



#81 BRG

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 19:44

Kobayashi, Lotter, Nakajima, Vandoorne - just let these guys line up at the back of the grid in Singapore....

But not the blokes who are beating them?



#82 Anonymouse

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:55

Sekiguchi took pole at Sugo and added another point to his championship challenge. Kazuki Nakajima was second fastest, with Nojiri, D. Nakajima, Vandoorne and Oliveira rounding out the top 6. Lotterer will start 9th, Ishiura 10th and Kunimoto 17th after being knocked out in Q1. Naoki Yamamoto will start last after colliding with Kobayashi in the pit lane after an unsafe release in Q1..



#83 Kev00

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 08:43

Sekiguchi wins. He led but missed the pits when SC came out. Everyone else had pitted so he built up a 36 second lead to make his pit stop and still finished 15 seconds ahead. Destroyed the field.

#84 Anonymouse

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 08:46

Yeah, it was a tremendous race from Sekiguchi, re-winning the race after that SC team blunder. He was a bit fortunate that the Tom's boys were bottled up behind Nojiri and that it was D.Nakajima in 2nd, but it's still a mighty task to pull out the gap he did.

 

He takes over the championship lead as well. A rookie is leading the championship going into the final weekend, who would have thought. :stoned:


Edited by Anonymouse, 25 September 2016 - 08:49.


#85 Kev00

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 08:53

Looking at the lap charts Daisuke Nakajima's fastest lap was a 1.08.865 and he was 2nd. Sekiguchi did about 40 laps that were quicker than this.

#86 muramasa

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 07:03


Kunimoto 2016 Super Formula Champion! :D :clap: :up:


Vandoorne got punted in race 1 but won race 2 in style, perfect graduation win :D

Edited by muramasa, 30 October 2016 - 07:08.


#87 Kev00

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 07:17

That looked close at the end. Lotterer just 0.7 behind Vandoorne. If Lotterer won he would have taken the title.

#88 muramasa

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 07:27


wouldve needed 3-5 more lap for Andre to execute pass on Van but looked like Vandoorne was controlling the race

 

Vandoorne's race performance is always solid and impressive regardless of result and no matter what position he's running

firstly he doesnt make silly mistakes that quite a few experienced drivers in the series are still making, and his performance is notably good even when things dont go well for him and he has to drive down in the middle or at the back



#89 noikeee

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 01:34

So if I've read the championship standings table right in Wikipedia (and if the information is correct), Vandoorne finished 4th in the championship, as the best Honda driver and well clear of anyone else using that engine, as the next guy was Naoki Yamamoto in 8th. On his rookie season, with 2 wins, and just 5 points away from championship winner Yuji Kunimoto on the (arguably) superior Toyota engine.

 

For me all of that qualifies as a successful year.



#90 muramasa

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 04:25

 

SF has so few races that championship table doesnt mean too much, not more than that top 5 or so drivers (and their respective teams) are good. Vandoorne couldve won title if not for bad luck at Fuji and R7 Suzuka race 1 for example, but that can be said to all drivers in top 5 or 6 as well.

 

Added to that, its format and current situation has some flawed aspects to confuse things even further, firstly refueling and race distance mismatch, which makes pitting at the end of lap 1 as one of normal strategies, which spoils and complicate races (refueling should be banned or shouldve been banned when SF went for new format of new I4T engine and new chassis in 2014 in the first place. ATM it's impossible to ban it as it requires whole redesigning to its chassis to accommodate bigger tank).

Secondly some teams are forced to use inferior machinery for cost reasons, for example it seems Kobayashi's chassis had fundamental issues throughout this year which was never resolved, that's why he ended up with score-less this season.

 

So what counts (significantly) more is performance itself rather than absolute result, and drivers like Lotterer, Vandoorne, Nakajima are the ones that really stand out. Those high profile drivers like Lotterer, Nakajima, Kobayashi last year, Treluyer, Duval as well as JP Oliveira really impress, you can clearly see the reason why those Audi and Toyota guys are in WEC and highly competitive there. Likewise Vandoorne seriously impressed this year, that's just too obvious. Why Kunimoto, Ishiura, Yamamoto etc are less so (while they are competitive, enough to be in LMP2 at least as well as Indy imo) is because it took long time for them to come good and less consistency over the years, kinda same as those "veterans" in GP2. Sekiguchi is rookie in SF this year but he had raced for long time in SGT already, good driver tho.



#91 onesixsix

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 08:18

 

SF has so few races that championship table doesnt mean too much, not more than that top 5 or so drivers (and their respective teams) are good. Vandoorne couldve won title if not for bad luck at Fuji and R7 Suzuka race 1 for example, but that can be said to all drivers in top 5 or 6 as well.

 

Added to that, its format and current situation has some flawed aspects to confuse things even further, firstly refueling and race distance mismatch, which makes pitting at the end of lap 1 as one of normal strategies, which spoils and complicate races (refueling should be banned or shouldve been banned when SF went for new format of new I4T engine and new chassis in 2014 in the first place. ATM it's impossible to ban it as it requires whole redesigning to its chassis to accommodate bigger tank).

Secondly some teams are forced to use inferior machinery for cost reasons, for example it seems Kobayashi's chassis had fundamental issues throughout this year which was never resolved, that's why he ended up with score-less this season.

 

So what counts (significantly) more is performance itself rather than absolute result, and drivers like Lotterer, Vandoorne, Nakajima are the ones that really stand out. Those high profile drivers like Lotterer, Nakajima, Kobayashi last year, Treluyer, Duval as well as JP Oliveira really impress, you can clearly see the reason why those Audi and Toyota guys are in WEC and highly competitive there. Likewise Vandoorne seriously impressed this year, that's just too obvious. Why Kunimoto, Ishiura, Yamamoto etc are less so (while they are competitive, enough to be in LMP2 at least as well as Indy imo) is because it took long time for them to come good and less consistency over the years, kinda same as those "veterans" in GP2. Sekiguchi is rookie in SF this year but he had raced for long time in SGT already, good driver tho.

 

thank you for the informative post. :up: