38 replies to this topic

[GenJackRipper]

One car that I am constantly amazed by, is the Mercedes 300 SLR. Such a beautiful car in every way.
One thing I can't really get clear on is how many there are. Are all of them in a museum of some sort; or are there any examples of the car in private hands?

[Tim Murray]

Nine cars were built and eight survive (the missing one obviously being the one destroyed at Le Mans 1955). Six are retained by Daimler-Benz, one is in the National Automobile Museum at Mulhouse (formerly the Schlumpf collection) and one is in the Deutsches Museum in Munich. DB assembled seven of the eight at the Goodwood Festival of Speed last year:

https://www.mercedes...s-benz-300-slr/

[Lee Nicolle]

I believe Jay Leno has one

[GenJackRipper]

Ah, thanks.

6 at Mercedes, seems like alot. I wonder what they would require to sell one.

[Tim Murray]

I believe Jay Leno has one

Can you provide some more detail on this, please Lee? I'm aware that he owns a 300SL:

http://autoweek.com/...wing-his-garage

but I can't find any info on him owning a 300SLR. If he does have one, he must have acquired it since the Goodwood FoS last June, as all eight surviving cars were then owned as I outlined above.

[Lee Nicolle]

Can you provide some more detail on this, please Lee? I'm aware that he owns a 300SL:

http://autoweek.com/...wing-his-garage

but I can't find any info on him owning a 300SLR. If he does have one, he must have acquired it since the Goodwood FoS last June, as all eight surviving cars were then owned as I outlined above.

That was the car I was thinking of. Not up with Benz models.

That car is a goer, Look on You tube for the story. NBC is a waste of time now.

[Tim Murray]

[Gary Davies]

Ah, thanks.

6 at Mercedes, seems like alot. I wonder what they would require to sell one.

I'm thinking that all one would need to do to prise a 300SLR from their cold dead hand would be to complete a successful takeover bid for Daimler AG. 

[D-Type]

Someone has built a 300SLR lookalike based on 300SL mechanicals.  It appeared at the Goodwood Revival a few years ago.

[Tim Murray]

The Porter Special:

http://www.mercedes3.../geschichte.htm

which suffered this sad accident at last year's Goodwood Members' Meeting:

http://www.westernmo...l/pictures.html

[Doug Nye]

Hmmm - off topic here, but I had not see that sequence before. When intending to turn off the circuit into the Goodwood paddock, drivers are required to keep within the right-side deceleration lane between chicane and paddock entrance. That means they should keep the white line seen in the background of these shots to the left of their car before they brake...

 

Unimpressed of Farnham

[fbarrett]

Bruce McCaw has #2 and drove it on the 2015 Colorado Grand.

[sabrejet]

Ah, thanks.

6 at Mercedes, seems like alot. I wonder what they would require to sell one.

 I recall reading MANY years ago that the Uhlenhaut cars were 'valued' at £60m, but as ever, monetary value often means nothing when considering historic worth.

[GenJackRipper]

The wreck from 1955; was anything recovered?

[raceannouncer2003]

Bruce McCaw has #2 and drove it on the 2015 Colorado Grand.

 

Wow.

 

Photos here:

 

https://web.sendtopr...1&cat=73&page=0

 

Looks like trusted VRM mechanic and driver Byron Sanburn in the car in the early pictures, but I don't know who is in the later photos.  I don't see Bruce McCaw.

 

As for value, I once overheard Stirling Moss saying the 300SLR is the most valuable car in the world.

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 15 February 2016 - 07:34.

[Tim Murray]

Is there any info available as to how and when McCaw acquired the car? I can't find anything on line, and Daimler-Benz were still claiming it as theirs at Goodwood last year.

[kayemod]

Is there any info available as to how and when McCaw acquired the car? I can't find anything on line, and Daimler-Benz were still claiming it as theirs at Goodwood last year.

 

I had a short conversation with one of the guys on the MB stand at Goodwood, asked him if they would ever part with one of their magnificent 300SLR collection. His response? "Undenkbar!", unthinkable, so either the warranty costs on my own MB have hit the Company very hard financially, or they've had a drastic change of heart. Having said that though, keeping hold of six of them does seem a bit greedy of to some of us, I'm sure Jay Leno would have been interested to name just one potential buyer.

[Sebastian Tombs]

   http://www.findforms...rnia_California

 

ST

[kayemod]

   http://www.findforms...rnia_California

 

ST

 

Well spotted Seb, very interesting, but $12.5 million seems unbelievably cheap for even a 300SLR without a lot of history, not surprised that MB are upset about losing it.

[GPevolved]

This doesn't answer the question, but I was lucky enough to convince my wife (then fiancé) to hold our wedding reception at a small mercedes museum.  I don't have a digital copy of our wedding photos handy.  But, we got to sit in a pristine 300 SLR (the exact car pictured below).  I live in the midwest of the states, so I'm not exactly in the Concours crowd.  Anyway, it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me to sit in the car and grasp the steering wheel.  

 

 

Edited by GPevolved, 15 February 2016 - 17:45.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Well spotted Seb, very interesting, but $12.5 million seems unbelievably cheap for even a 300SLR without a lot of history, not surprised that MB are upset about losing it.

 Have they lost it?  The doc I posted was just the opening gambit in the case concerning VRM v Daimler-Benz and the arguments concerning the originality and state of the G4 six-wheeler that D-B wanted as part of the deal.  VRM bought that to satisfy the contract they thought they had with D-B.  (an 'S' Typ was apparently thrown in as well !)  The value put on the 300SLR (by somebody at D-B) was $38,000,000 ex Stuttgart AFAIK but who said what to whom was subsequently highly disputed.  McCaw (to whom such figures are comparitive peanuts) agreed to pay cash plus the G4 and the S-Typ and the figure of $20,000,000 was mentioned somewhere but McCaw was 'disappointed' (read pissed off) that D-B had undervalued the G4 ( which had been obtained specifically to enable this deal) as a result of their examination in Stuttgart (at VRM/McCaw's expense).  I might check further but I'm not really interested in Mercedes-Benz (other, of course, than the 300SLR!)  McCaw can really buy what he wants where he wants...price no object.  Check out his collection, and that of his siblings.

What evidence have you got that 300SLR #002 (NOT the W194) is in Bruce McCaw's collection...or are you thinking of Craig McCaw who buys GTOs at $35 mill a throw?

 

ST

[GenJackRipper]

   http://www.findforms...rnia_California

 

ST

 

Is this the McCaw car or another 300 SLR?
Who owns the car in your link now?

[Sebastian Tombs]

Is this the McCaw car or another 300 SLR?
Who owns the car in your link now?

 

Chassis # 02 is owned by Mercedes-Benz Museum GmbH.  The car that appeared AT (not IN) the 2015 Colorado Grand bearing its Mille Miglia start number 704 is chassis #06 with twin high fairings and no air-brake.  It was driven in the 1955 Mille Miglia by Hermann/Eger and did not finish (accident).  As to who brought 06 to Vail check out the Royce Rumsey pic.  As to your chances of getting hold of a 300SLR I would imagine they are akin to the liklihood of your swimming the Atlantic underwater! Best of luck

 

 

 

ST

[raceannouncer2003]

I wondered whether the Colorado Grand car was #02 or #06.  But wasn't #06 the Levegh Le Mans car?

 

As shown in the link in post 15, there are plenty of shots of the car on the road.  I'm quite sure it's VRM guy Byron Sanburn driving it in those photos and in the one above.  As to his passenger and the folks shown in later photos, I don't know who they are.

 

Vince H.

 

Edit: Let's try this link:

 

091-1955 Mercedes Benz 300 SLR [42]

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 16 February 2016 - 06:24.

[Tim Murray]

Chassis 6 was indeed the Levegh car destroyed at Le Mans. As Seb said, it was also the car driven in the Mille Miglia by Hans Herrmann. As this car no longer exists, DB have done chassis 2 up to resemble the Herrmann Mille Miglia car. Similarly, Fangio's Mille Miglia car (chassis 3) is the car in the Deutsches Museum, so the car currently displayed by DB carrying number 658 is chassis 10.

Edited by Tim Murray, 16 February 2016 - 02:44.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Ah yes   It certainly looks like Byron Sanborn in my pic (can't see raceannouncer's files) which means VRM.  M-B are hardly likely to have shipped it over for the 'Gold' as sponsors...that would be rubbing salt in any still-open wounds!  One can only conclude that McCaw/VRM have got it somehow or other.  Could always mail Byron I suppose but it's very infra-dig to ask who owns multi-million dollar motor cars these days if it's not well-known.  Still cannot see how this aquisition has been missed, whatever clandestine deals were done.  Short of a Bugatti Atlantic it must be one of the most desirable and (potentialy) unobtainable cars out there.   

 

ST

[Tim Murray]

Well, if McCaw does now own chassis 2 he must be back on pretty good terms with Daimler Benz because they seem to make a lot of use of the car themselves. As mentioned above the car was part of DB's 300SLR display at last year's Goodwood Festival of Speed. It also featured in their 60th anniversary Mille Miglia celebrations:

http://classiccartru...-slr-and-180-d/

Edited by Tim Murray, 16 February 2016 - 15:17.

[Sebastian Tombs]

As you say Tim.  Maybe it's some 'You can drive it but you can't own it!' arrangement accompanied by an out-of court deal...who knows?  Stuttgart Museum are renowned for occasional largesse mind you...they let Simon Kidston have a day in the Uhlenhaut coupe a few years ago    Maybe I should ask for a blast up the Klausen in Ernes Merck's TypS

 

ATB

 

ST

[sabrejet]

 

This doesn't answer the question, but I was lucky enough to convince my wife (then fiancé) to hold our wedding reception at a small mercedes museum.  I don't have a digital copy of our wedding photos handy.  But, we got to sit in a pristine 300 SLR (the exact car pictured below).  I live in the midwest of the states, so I'm not exactly in the Concours crowd.  Anyway, it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me to sit in the car and grasp the steering wheel.  

 

 

 

Did the 300SLR photo get removed? I don't see one above. ??

[raceannouncer2003]

Yes, sorry about that, Byron Sanborn.  (Sanburn must be my mind wandering to warmer climes than here in rainy Victoria, BC).  And sorry about those links...sometimes they work and sometimes not.

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 19 February 2016 - 07:32.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I wonder if the "loan" is a form of settlement. What other motivation would DB have to allow such a significant piece out of its control, regardless of the stature of the "borrower"?

[Sebastian Tombs]

Nice work Vince    As we had deduced then...  LOL@ 'Proserpina'    Bit harsh equating Bruce to the God of the Underworld though (or were you thinking the other way round?) !

 

ST

[raceannouncer2003]

I hadn't realized there was a confidentiality notice with Steve McCaughey's email that I quoted from in post 30, and with an email from Thor Thorson of VRM.  They haven't asked me to, but I have deleted that quote.

 

I think it's safe to say that Byron Sanborn  (driver) and Thor Thorson (passenger) in the post 23 photo had fun and that it is #2, as Frank said way back in post 12.

 

Vince H.

[Tim Murray]

They haven't asked me to, but I have deleted that quote.

I've also now deleted the posts I made referencing that quote.

[Ray Bell]

In two days last year I saw four of these cars...

One, with air brake, was on the special transporter:



The nicest was the one built for the 1956 season, which of course didn't happen. A couple of years later Rudi Uhlenhaut had some work done on it and it became his personal road car for a few years:



While drooling over that very thought, this one came in view in the line-up of successful Mercedes-Benz (and Benz) racers and record cars:



I guess that's a (the?) 1952 Le Mans 300SL beside it. But the day before I'd seen this intriguing display:



Note especially the 'F' on the rear of this car. To me it indicates that the Schlumpf brothers at least considered it to be their own.

Apart from that, I'm sure that I read many years ago that they had traded a car which Daimler-Benz keenly wanted for their museum for this car.

Could that be right?



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 16 March 2017 - 05:24.

[Kenzclass]

Here's a link that identifies the ownership of 7 of the 8 survivors, at least in 2015:

Six owned by D-B (including the two coupes), one by Schlump Museum, as Ray suggested.

http://media.daimler...tml?oid=9920542

Chassis #3, missing from that Goodwood line-up was on permanent loan to the Deutsches Museum in Munich for some years, and may still be.

Edited by Kenzclass, 16 March 2017 - 13:45.

[kayemod]

I saw the Schlumpf car in the Mulhouse museum a few years ago, slightly surprised it was being exhibited at all, as it looked quite tatty, nothing else on display was being shown in a less than perfect condition. Paint was flaking off one side, and you could see evidence of repairs with body filler, and that too seemed to be coming adrift in places. It's obviously been properly repaired since then, but I very much doubt it had any filler on it when it was in Mercedes ownership. I wondered if it had been driven since its arrival and suffered a mishap, those French drivers...

[AJB]

Here's a link that identifies the ownership of 7 of the 8 survivors, at least in 2015:

Six owned by D-B (including the two coupes), one by Schlump Museum, as Ray suggested.

http://media.daimler...tml?oid=9920542

Chassis #3, missing from that Goodwood line-up was on permanent loan to the Deutsches Museum in Munich for some years, and may still be.

It was still there in May 2016, but at the Deutsches Museum Verkehrszentrum branch, located at Theresienhöhe in Munich, which concentrates on transportation technology.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by kayemod
I saw the Schlumpf car in the Mulhouse museum a few years ago, slightly surprised it was being exhibited at all, as it looked quite tatty, nothing else on display was being shown in a less than perfect condition. Paint was flaking off one side, and you could see evidence of repairs with body filler, and that too seemed to be coming adrift in places. It's obviously been properly repaired since then, but I very much doubt it had any filler on it when it was in Mercedes ownership. I wondered if it had been driven since its arrival and suffered a mishap, those French drivers...

I'd blame the Union takeover, personally...

It certainly isn't all that rough any more, but would it be the only one ever fitted with the extra lights?



And referring back to the page about Goodwood and the appearance of the car there with its immaculately-kept brethren, I wonder if Daimler-Benz put their workers on the job to bring this one up to scratch?



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 16 March 2017 - 23:55.