Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Racers you respect that get little recognition!


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:51

Am thinking here of guys that are regular winners or that push the boundaries routinely that are in perhaps formula's that are away from the pubic eye or not on television much.

 

Guys like Simone Faggioli and Christian Merli in European Hillclimb, the things these guys do stagger me!

 

Some of our British hillclimb guys like Trevor Willis, Scott Moran and guys from the past like David Grace and Roy Lane.

 

Some of our non MSA guys like Frankie Wainman Jr, Rob Speak, Gordon Moodie and the like who race in contact short oval formulas every week all over the country and have been at the top of their game for decades.

 

Some of the top drag racers here and in Europe, I know it is often frowned upon, sort of the darts of motorsport, but if you have seen it live, you will know that these things need to be driven! and driven hard!

 

There must be countless others around various pockets of the world! 

 

 



Advertisement

#2 karl100589

karl100589
  • Member

  • 330 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 14:20

Archie Scott-Brown, Scottish racer who had a strong career in Sports Cars despite having an underdeveloped arm and leg as a result of Rubella.



#3 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,125 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 14:25

Sebastien Bourdais instantly comes to mind. (Yes, I did read the opening sentence in the topic. :p )

But probably more in line with the spirit of the thread, I'd say Kenton Koch. He blitzed the IMSA Lites field last year, and up until he won the Rolex 24 a few weeks ago, I don't think very many people had any idea who he was.

There's also Clint MacMahon of SCCA formula racer fame, and Danny Steyn and Cliff Brown, who are regular frontrunners in any Spec Miata race.

Edited by Afterburner, 14 February 2016 - 14:29.


#4 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 61,701 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 14 February 2016 - 14:29

Always a fan of the underdog, so I always kept an eye out for Piercarlo Ghinzani.  Has anyone ever displayed such tenacity just to keep a hold in Formula 1?  And he was no tugger either, winning a couple of WEC races in its 1980s heyday. 

 

Plus he was racing six weeks after he had been barbecued at Kyalami.  Ballsy. 

 

Also, Brian Naylor.  How easy it would have been just to buy a Cooper or Lotus and go with that.  Rather than have a go at building your own car with a mate.  And one of the very select few British drivers to have driven in the Daytona 500. 



#5 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 15:20

Racing guys, maybe folk like Peter Baldwin, a regular winner in single make stuff, Brian Farminer.  I always think with guys like this they are not only great drivers but also the best at interpreting rules and regs!!



#6 InSearchOfThe

InSearchOfThe
  • Member

  • 2,622 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 14 February 2016 - 15:28

Sebastian Loeb.

I know he's a multiple champ, but I still think he underrated.

Always felt like he could have been successful in open wheel.

#7 DampMongoose

DampMongoose
  • Member

  • 2,258 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 February 2016 - 15:31

Tony Brooks and Vic Elford are barely known amongst youngsters.

#8 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 4,904 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 February 2016 - 16:11

Pastor Maldonado - he is a racewinner, you know.  :p



#9 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 7,438 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 16:28

Jimmy Vasser was always utterly underrated for me, partly because he always seemed to be partnered with slightly more exotic refugees from European racing like Montoya and Zanardi. In the peak years of CART I can't think of many more consistently classy racing drivers who could win anywhere, was deservedly champion, had immaculate racecraft, was always totally fair and a really nice guy out of the car. In 1999 everybody was going mad over JPM and he finally seemed to have had enough of being the support act, firstly by looking pretty crushed in 99 but then the following year by bouncing back and beating Montoya. He was a class act. I remember watching his 'comeback' win at Houston in 2000 and feeling quite emotional, because the guy had been through the ringer in the last 18 months.

#10 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,328 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 14 February 2016 - 16:32

I'm a huge fan of British circuit racing veteran Ben Wilson. Usually a threat for race wins in the British Supersport championship, but his hang-off, elbows-out style is something to watch. Charismatic racer.

#11 H0R

H0R
  • Member

  • 4,068 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:23

Not only do I respect him, I idolize him: Dan Gurney



#12 Prost1997T

Prost1997T
  • Member

  • 8,379 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:34

There's also Clint McMahan* of SCCA formula racer fame

 

If it's the same guy I think he is, he'll be in USF2000 full-time this year thanks to a scholarship awarded by the F600 challenge series.



#13 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,165 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:35

Vitaly Petrov. He had an imperfect heterodox racing background akin to Bruno Senna but ultimately showed a lot more promise than Senna ever did in F1. In 2005 he was racing Ladas. By 2009 he was mounting a GP2 championship challenge against Hulkenberg. By 2011, he reached the F1 podium. He deserved better than being dumped by Caterham after his drive in Brazil netted 10th in the WCC for the team.



#14 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,554 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:45

Dan Gurney

Francois Cevert

Roger Williamson

Tom Pryce

Alessandro Nannini

Ricardo Rodriguez

John Surtees

Stefan Bellof


Edited by BuddyHolly, 14 February 2016 - 17:45.


#15 balage06

balage06
  • Member

  • 3,106 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:56

Norbert Kiss



#16 Andy35

Andy35
  • Member

  • 4,823 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 February 2016 - 18:05

Art Arfons

 

 

We all know Craig, but Art and he had a really good battle. Both racing  against drag :)

 

Andy

 

PS note rubber tyres and not just a solid aluminum disk. No wonder they kept blowing at speedy speeds.......  real men....


Edited by Andy35, 14 February 2016 - 18:09.


#17 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 14 February 2016 - 18:24

Robert Wickens

 

I wish he could have got a proper shot at F1. He is a fellow Canuck so I may be biased.


Edited by MikeV1987, 14 February 2016 - 18:25.


#18 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 18:34

Great shout with Art Arfons Andy, being a Brit I hold Campbell, Noble and those men in almost superhero type esteem.

But what Arfons did against the might of Breedlove in those days was insane, it would take pages to tell the story, but that guy had balls of steel, nerve not many others had.  He ranks up there with some of the air force pilots of the time in my view! He did it on a budget, did all the work himself and to think when he crashed he was pushing 600mph, a speed only just eclipsed by Noble in his professionally designed car 20 odd years later!

 

Another guy for me is Marc Duez, here is a guy I would pay good money to watch drive just about anything!!



#19 FullThrottleF1

FullThrottleF1
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 14 February 2016 - 18:40

Dean Stoneman, should have had a chance at F1 with Williams.



Advertisement

#20 Andy35

Andy35
  • Member

  • 4,823 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 February 2016 - 18:48

Great shout with Art Arfons Andy, being a Brit I hold Campbell, Noble and those men in almost superhero type esteem.

But what Arfons did against the might of Breedlove in those days was insane, it would take pages to tell the story, but that guy had balls of steel, nerve not many others had.  He ranks up there with some of the air force pilots of the time in my view! He did it on a budget, did all the work himself and to think when he crashed he was pushing 600mph, a speed only just eclipsed by Noble in his professionally designed car 20 odd years later!

 

Another guy for me is Marc Duez, here is a guy I would pay good money to watch drive just about anything!!

 

Totally agree chunder.  All the guys who did land speed records are slightly under rated I feel.

 

As are all the guys who did attempted water speeds records,  it's not happy reading either for a long and happy life. So hats off also to Australian Ken Warby who has now held it for 28 years with a boat built out of his old backyard BBQ and some tins of Fosters. Incredible.

 

Any person attempting the speed record on water, given past accidents, has to be considered insane. No wonder an Aussie with big balls has got it.

 

Andy


Edited by Andy35, 14 February 2016 - 18:49.


#21 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,125 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:02

If it's the same guy I think he is, he'll be in USF2000 full-time this year thanks to a scholarship awarded by the F600 challenge series.

That would be the one. :D If you ever get the chance to watch him behind the wheel of an F600, do it.

#22 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 23,842 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:04

Jimmy Vasser was always utterly underrated for me, partly because he always seemed to be partnered with slightly more exotic refugees from European racing like Montoya and Zanardi. In the peak years of CART I can't think of many more consistently classy racing drivers who could win anywhere, was deservedly champion, had immaculate racecraft, was always totally fair and a really nice guy out of the car. In 1999 everybody was going mad over JPM and he finally seemed to have had enough of being the support act, firstly by looking pretty crushed in 99 but then the following year by bouncing back and beating Montoya. He was a class act. I remember watching his 'comeback' win at Houston in 2000 and feeling quite emotional, because the guy had been through the ringer in the last 18 months.


Agreed. Although he didn't really beat Montoya in 2000. Reliability did. In fact I recall Vasser making a humorous quip after the Houston race relating to finally getting the better of JPM.

#23 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:09

Andy, actually I would say even more so on water, Arfons gave up on that very quickly, but lost a brother I think?  didn't Craig die attempting a water record? In drag racing, guys like Don Garlits, Don Prudhomme, John Force, utterly dominant in their sports but only recognised over there. Yet a guy like Petty or Foyt who do the same are universally praised on both sides of the Atlantic  (stretching it with Foyt!!)

 

When I think of rallyists I think of Steve Bannister, or unsung heroes who often raced in class systems like John Lyons in Ireland who got staggering results in low powered cars.



#24 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,883 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:20

When I think of rallyists I think of Steve Bannister

That's a good call.  Then there were others like Phil Collins (not that Phil Collins!) or Russell Brookes.  Never really had  - or perhaps wanted - factory driver status but major talents.  Or of course dear old Jimmy McRae whose massive ability is largely forgotten because of his son Colin.



#25 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 7,438 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:44

Agreed. Although he didn't really beat Montoya in 2000. Reliability did. In fact I recall Vasser making a humorous quip after the Houston race relating to finally getting the better of JPM.


True, although I do remember him standing up better to Montoya second time round. In 1999 he was nowhere.

In rallying I think Toni Gardemeister was underappreciated. He was a pretty highly rated youngster driving for SEAT but the cars were never quick enough to do much, he spent years and years doing well in the slowest cars each year for SEAT and Skoda, then when he finally got his big break with Ford, he spent the year competing strongly, was consistent and on the podium several times, but it wasn't good enough. In the next couple of years I then remember him doing very well on his selected outings as a privateer in a Peugeot 307.

Would have been nice if he'd got more of a break because he wasn't far behind Gronholm at all when the two were coming through in the 90s.

#26 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:45

Tempted to disagree with you a little about Brookes and Jim, they were competing against the very best at the time in British championships rallies and had their moments, but were often slower than Vatanen, Mikkola and Toivonen et al. Not sure they were under-rated, perhaps on a world scale but not in the UK. I would say Malcolm Wilson was perhaps the best bet we had for years, but made awful career choices. And maybe Mark Higgins, Neil Wearden too.



#27 Lipp

Lipp
  • Member

  • 2,038 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:48

Cor Euser, just because he built a racingteam around this:

 

1996LM81_car.JPG



#28 Cig35

Cig35
  • Member

  • 641 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:52

Andy, actually I would say even more so on water, Arfons gave up on that very quickly, but lost a brother I think?  didn't Craig die attempting a water record? In drag racing, guys like Don Garlits, Don Prudhomme, John Force, utterly dominant in their sports but only recognised over there. Yet a guy like Petty or Foyt who do the same are universally praised on both sides of the Atlantic  (stretching it with Foyt!!)

 

When I think of rallyists I think of Steve Bannister, or unsung heroes who often raced in class systems like John Lyons in Ireland who got staggering results in low powered cars.

Water...

Drag racing...

Unknown drivers...

 

(Sorry for off-topic.)



#29 Pontlieue

Pontlieue
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 20:04

Jean-Pierre Wimille. A great driver who is mostly forgotten today because he died in an accident a year before the World Championship started. He started his career in 1930 at the age of 22. He won the French Grand Prix in 1936 and the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1937 and 1939, before his career was interrupted by the outbreak of World War II. During the war, he became a resistance fighter alongside his fellow racing drivers William Grover-Williams and Robert Benoist, who had been his teammate at Le Mans as well. Wimille was the only one of those three to survive the war. He was probably the best driver of the immediate post-war period, winning many races from 1946-1948. If there had been a championship in those years, he would have won the 1947 and 1948 titles. Wimille died in an accident at Buenos Aires in January 1949. If he had lived to compete in F1, his name would probably be named alongside Fangio and Ascari as one of the greatest of his time.


Edited by Pontlieue, 14 February 2016 - 20:05.


#30 Prost1997T

Prost1997T
  • Member

  • 8,379 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 20:16

That would be the one. :D If you ever get the chance to watch him behind the wheel of an F600, do it.

 

I'm not exactly local, so I'll have to stick to the MRTI webstream.  ;)



#31 DampMongoose

DampMongoose
  • Member

  • 2,258 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 February 2016 - 21:19

Jean-Pierre Wimille. A great driver who is mostly forgotten today because he died in an accident a year before the World Championship started. He started his career in 1930 at the age of 22. He won the French Grand Prix in 1936 and the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1937 and 1939, before his career was interrupted by the outbreak of World War II. During the war, he became a resistance fighter alongside his fellow racing drivers William Grover-Williams and Robert Benoist, who had been his teammate at Le Mans as well. Wimille was the only one of those three to survive the war. He was probably the best driver of the immediate post-war period, winning many races from 1946-1948. If there had been a championship in those years, he would have won the 1947 and 1948 titles. Wimille died in an accident at Buenos Aires in January 1949. If he had lived to compete in F1, his name would probably be named alongside Fangio and Ascari as one of the greatest of his time.


Have you read "Early One Morning"?

#32 ezequiel

ezequiel
  • Member

  • 2,790 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 14 February 2016 - 21:21

Alessio Picariello. He deserves much better.



#33 DampMongoose

DampMongoose
  • Member

  • 2,258 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 February 2016 - 21:22

Cor Euser, just because he built a racingteam around this:

1996LM81_car.JPG


I loved the '95 BPR car with the navy and silver livery. Saw it a few times back then...

#34 Prost1997T

Prost1997T
  • Member

  • 8,379 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 February 2016 - 21:46

Alessio Picariello. He deserves much better.

 

If he was short on money, then the smart thing to do would have been to leave Europe and try racing in Japan or the US. Honda, Toyota and Mazda run very good driver development programs that reward performance and winning.



#35 king_crud

king_crud
  • Member

  • 7,964 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 14 February 2016 - 22:27

Jim Richards in Australia: touring cars, rally cars, production cars, sports cars, Auscar & Nascar, was successful in all of them



#36 Volcano70

Volcano70
  • Member

  • 871 posts
  • Joined: August 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 23:23

Da Matta nowadays, along with Junqueria and Moreno, all strong racers but because they don't race anymore they are more and more unnoticed.



#37 myattitude

myattitude
  • Member

  • 632 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 14 February 2016 - 23:32

Heidfeld would have been a true Schumacher rival and peer had he gotten the McLaren seat.



#38 DerFlugplatz

DerFlugplatz
  • Member

  • 126 posts
  • Joined: September 14

Posted 14 February 2016 - 23:46

Dakar rally drivers, especially the amateurs who usually go through a lot to just reach the finish 



#39 Amphicar

Amphicar
  • Member

  • 2,823 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 February 2016 - 00:05

Vic Elford, Danny Ongais, Brian Redman



Advertisement

#40 Dan333SP

Dan333SP
  • Member

  • 4,681 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 15 February 2016 - 03:43

Heidfeld would have been a true Schumacher rival and peer had he gotten the McLaren seat.


Not sure about that... He never dominated his teammates in a way that makes me think he could have been up there with MSC, Kimi, and Alonso in that era.

To the post about Wimille, you guys should read "The Grand Prix Saboteurs" if you haven't already. Amazing story.

Another I will add is Adre Lotterer. I know he has made a nice career in WEC, but I think he could have been an F1 star if given the right opportunity at the right time.

#41 Dan333SP

Dan333SP
  • Member

  • 4,681 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 15 February 2016 - 03:46

Cor Euser, just because he built a racingteam around this:

1996LM81_car.JPG


Agree. I went to an FIA GT race in 1998 when he was running the rainbow colored LM600 against the mighty ORECA Vipers, and he managed to get ahead of them for at least part of the race I watched in the rain. Seemed very handy with an overmatched car.

#42 Otaku

Otaku
  • Member

  • 1,715 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 February 2016 - 04:32

Jose Maria Lopez



#43 ExFlagMan

ExFlagMan
  • Member

  • 5,725 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 15 February 2016 - 07:44

Any driver with the inclination and ability to drive a circuit without resorting to corner cutting - which unfortunately excludes most so called 'professionals'....



#44 Lipp

Lipp
  • Member

  • 2,038 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 15 February 2016 - 09:05

Agree. I went to an FIA GT race in 1998 when he was running the rainbow colored LM600 against the mighty ORECA Vipers, and he managed to get ahead of them for at least part of the race I watched in the rain. Seemed very handy with an overmatched car.

I saw that one race too. Cor Euser was at that time one of the most versatile drivers of the grid, even though he is almost 60 he is still going strong racing the Evora in the 24hr endurance series. 

 

jarama_cor0.jpg


Edited by Lipp, 15 February 2016 - 09:25.


#45 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly
  • Member

  • 893 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 15 February 2016 - 22:14

In rallying, the late Dave Metcalfe would surely be up there.....tragically taken from us too soon 



#46 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 5,775 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 15 February 2016 - 22:52

Again though Dick I don't think Dave was underrated, he was a huge loss and destined to be many times British champion but everyone knew he was both bonkers and very fast in rallying circles!

 

Sasly most rallyists get ignored in these type of threads as the vast majority of folk only seem to watch circuit racing, by far the easiest discipline to get interest from!

 

A superb shout is the Dakar drivers, guys like Peterhansel, to win it that many times on cars and bikes dwarfs anything Loeb, Kristensen have done in my eyes. As their events look like knitting in comparison to modern and older Dakars!



#47 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 12,109 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 February 2016 - 23:17

Cor Euser, just because he built a racingteam around this:

 

1996LM81_car.JPG

 

I used to love that rainbow car

 

jarama_cor0.jpg



#48 ElJefe

ElJefe
  • Member

  • 472 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 15 February 2016 - 23:19

Bernd Schneider, Henri Pescarolo, Stephane Peterhansel, Arie Luyendijk... Amazing drivers in their respective disciplines, but only known among hardcore motorsport enthusiasts.


Edited by ElJefe, 15 February 2016 - 23:21.


#49 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 12,109 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 February 2016 - 23:22

I saw that one race too. Cor Euser was at that time one of the most versatile drivers of the grid, even though he is almost 60 he is still going strong racing the Evora in the 24hr endurance series. 

 

jarama_cor0.jpg

 

You beat me to it.



#50 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 4,237 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 16 February 2016 - 00:08

Tony Adamowicz.

 

And… curiously, given his level of high-profile success, Mark Donohue is still largely overlooked on this (the Eastern) side of the Atlantic.