3993 replies to this topic

[ermo]

With testing now over, these are my thoughts so far:

 

Things aren't looking great, but they don't look completely horrible either.  Cautiously optimistic about the potential for in-season development, but I have zero expectations for Melbourne per se.  In fact,  I just hope both cars make it to the finish and are not classified dead last.

[Christophe77]

So testing's over and I'm... disappointed. Bearing in mind the jump Ferrari made from 2014 to 2015, I was expecting McLaren Honda to do something similar. Which they haven't. Is that expecting to much? And if so, why? Especially from the chassis I was expecting much more. Trackside observation revealed an average chassis, which really surprises me. The engine is better, maybe upto Renault?

 

Podiums seem far off at this stage. I'm actually surprised Alonso will be racing. I was expecting him to do a ' 1992 Prost', calling the car a "truck" at some stage during testing. I'm glad he will be racing, but it will hurt to see him in the middle of the field battling Sauber, Haas, Renault...

 

My revised pecking order: Merc / Ferrari / RB / TR  / Williams / FI / McLaren  /Renault/ Sauber/ Haas/ Manor  

And I think Mclaren vs Renault will be thight. 

[smr]

Mercedes
Ferrari
Williams
Force India
Torro Rosso
Red Bull
McLaren
Renault
Sauber
Haas
Manor

 

 

From what I've seen of this test - and imho.

[f1rules]

im not sure the chassis is average, i think more it has to do with driveability, power delivery, no matter, im dissapointed also, was expecting a ferrari style jump

my quess merc, fer, will, rb,fi, tr, mcl, but i still have hope! of something better, and like ermo said, seems they are positive regarding development potential

 

So testing's over and I'm... disappointed. Bearing in mind the jump Ferrari made from 2014 to 2015, I was expecting McLaren Honda to do something similar. Which they haven't. Is that expecting to much? And if so, why? Especially from the chassis I was expecting much more. Trackside observation revealed an average chassis, which really surprises me. The engine is better, maybe upto Renault?

 

Podiums seem far off at this stage. I'm actually surprised Alonso will be racing. I was expecting him to do a ' 1992 Prost', calling the car a "truck" at some stage during testing. I'm glad he will be racing, but it will hurt to see him in the middle of the field battling Sauber, Haas, Renault...

 

My revised pecking order: Merc / Ferrari / RB / TR  / Williams / FI / McLaren  /Renault/ Sauber/ Haas/ Manor  

And I think Mclaren vs Renault will be thight. 

[Christophe77]

I really can't see RB that far away... They've got an excellent chassis and Renault's certainly improved.

Same for TR...

Williams I dunno...hard to guess.

FI seems like an updated 2015 car...

But you could be right.

But I"m pretty sure about McLaren...lower midfield 

[Frankbullitt]

Im optimistic for a good season, solid foundational work done, lots of miles on the car. But of course, its fashionable to be down in the dumps.

[blacky]

I'm actually surprised Alonso will be racing. I was expecting him to do a ' 1992 Prost', calling the car a "truck" at some stage during testing. I'm glad he will be racing, but it will hurt to see him in the middle of the field battling Sauber, Haas, Renault...

 

I am not surprised. At the end he has already achieved 2 titles and after 2017 he can definitely sing this song all night long:

 

I don't expect much difference to last year, a calm ALO outside the car and here and there he will **** a brick during races on team radio. However, is he as motivated and on fire as in his best days (2010 and 2012)? Naturally hard to judge from the outside, but I say no. I guess he accepts already that he won't win the title again and the priorities of him are changing slightly. Boulevard writes about 2nd marriage at the end of the year and a baby in the pipeline.

[Kristian]

Solid midfield for McLaren, and it will be very hard to feature in Q3 based on car pace alone (but driver nous/talent/experience might swing it). 

 

Sadly 'solid midfield' is not a phrase that should be becoming of this team. 

[Joseki]

I am not surprised. At the end he has already achieved 2 titles and after 2017 he can definitely sing this song all night long:

 

I don't expect much difference to last year, a calm ALO outside the car and here and there he will **** a brick during races on team radio. However, is he as motivated and on fire as in his best days (2010 and 2012)? Naturally hard to judge from the outside, but I say no. I guess he accepts already that he won't win the title again and the priorities of him are changing slightly. Boulevard writes about 2nd marriage at the end of the year and a baby in the pipeline.

 

I think he's simply waiting to see what Honda will do this year and what McLaren will do next year, if one of them fails him he will switch to LMP1.

[Kev00]

I'm confident enough that McLaren will have a good year. I don't think the engine will be an embarrassment like it was last year and we will see Alonso and Button in proper wheel to wheel battles, not just getting swamped by the others. I can see them close to Renault, and hopefully RB, TR and FI as apposed to Haas and Sauber. I certainly don't envisage podiums but I expect regular points and expect them to make the biggest gains throughout the year.

[RonsBurgundy]

Next stop Melbourne. Let's do this!!! Super duper !

 

 

 

[Alonsofan007]

Here is my theory.

Car was developed for  PU spec1 which was size-zero. Once they integrated with chassis, there were failures (which was reported) and  they did not have failures with spec2 which was taller and in last minute they had to make changes to bring non-size-zero engine cover which appeared on 6th day of testing, till then they decided test spec1 turned down.

 

 

Now they have to re-optimize or change aero concept to adapt to spec2, so they are behind schedule. Hopefully they will get major updates for melbourne, if not hopefully by barcelona

Edited by Alonsofan007, 04 March 2016 - 19:17.

[currupipi]

Really says a lot that one is thinking about 2017, another year wasted

[tifosii]

Looking foward to 2017,they will get better chance by then

[Lemans]

Guys. The 2016 season hasn't even started yet. Why don't we just watch that first?

[BJHF1]

Really says a lot that one is thinking about 2017, another year wasted

Honda better make certain that they are able to provide a competitve PU going forward, as the regulations changes will likely place even more emphasis on power, due to the increased mechanical grip, downforce/drag.

[mclarensmps]

Solid midfield for McLaren, and it will be very hard to feature in Q3 based on car pace alone (but driver nous/talent/experience might swing it). 

 

Sadly 'solid midfield' is not a phrase that should be becoming of this team. 

 

Although I agree that 'solid midfield' is not a phrase that should be associated with McLaren; I will take 'solid midfield' over what we endured last year.

[BillBald]

A couple of things are slightly worrying.

 

Apparently they didn't do much running with the higher DF rear wing, which would have been more suitable for Barcelona. That suggests that it didn't work as expected, perhaps because of the engine cover changes for the new spec PU. I think they should be able to sort this out fairly quickly.

 

Alonso said they didn't properly understand the new rear suspension, which is more of a concern, although maybe not too surprising when you think about it. Basically they've gone from the rock-hard suspension they have used for a number of years, to a RedBull-style softer suspension, with a lot of visible body-roll. A totally different concept.

 

I think it might be a few races before this car is performing at its best.

[LeClerc]

Although I agree that 'solid midfield' is not a phrase that should be associated with McLaren; I will take 'solid midfield' over what we endured last year.

 

 

 

Just kidding, I may have to eat humble pie come end of season.

[McLobby]

My guess:

 

Mercedes - Ferrari

Red Bull - Williams

McLaren - Force India

Torro Rosso

Renault - Haas

Manor

Sauber

 

I really believe Q3 is possible in Melbourne under the right circumstances, and solid points in the race

It may won't be the huge step in perfomance some of us wanted to see,

But not a bad start, either.( if the above is the case, come the debut GP)

[CPR]

Team report:

http://www.mclaren.c...est-2-day-four/

 

Team would have liked to have done more, unsurprisingly. 710 laps in 8 days isn't too bad at all though I would feel better about that if I knew it wasn't run detuned most of the time it seems. I really hope they don't have to run the engine detuned in quali or the race.

 

While there's lots of upgrades coming for Australia it's probably worth being in mind that the circuit there is more of an engine circuit than Barcelona is. There's sure going to be lots of and lots of speculation until we get to qualifying and see the first "real" numbers...

[chhatra]

My gut was telling me before testing McLaren would do really well.

During testing, seeing the times and trackside reports, not feeling too confident.

I'm not sure why but I feel McLaren are sandbagging quite alot. I think they will surprise many come Australia.

[f1rules]

A couple of things are slightly worrying.

 

Apparently they didn't do much running with the higher DF rear wing, which would have been more suitable for Barcelona. That suggests that it didn't work as expected, perhaps because of the engine cover changes for the new spec PU. I think they should be able to sort this out fairly quickly.

 

i dont know about that, the two versions are the same except the height of the main plane, i think either the lower version is enough to balance out the car, or they are giving honda a helping hand, until they can turn up the pu, also the engine cover didnt change, the sidepod hotair outlets did but they have no influence on rearwing performance, but the again, it is strange that the car has been labeled as tail happy, and eb said the high df wing would suit better, so maybe something is wrong

Edited by f1rules, 04 March 2016 - 20:18.

[Quickshifter]

Guys just a simple basic question you need to ask yourself and come up with an answer. Add that answer to what you saw in Barcelona. 

 

Honda have more to gain than other manufacturers with  mapping and power unit management settings on the dyno cos their new spec power unit is still in it's nascency.

 

Mclaren have many aero bits still missing on the car which will arrive in Australia.

 

Now my question is which team will be having the max amount of upgrades both on engine and chassis between now and Australia. The answer is Mclaren Honda. 

 

So things may not look so competitive here but they will look definitely better than what they did in Barcelona.

 

Formula 1 is a moving game.  With a package which is set to mature both on engine and chassis more than anyone every race will be slightly better than the previous one. 

 

When the car had a hydraulic leak on day 3 and a coolant leak on day 4 people thought Honda were not over their reliability issue but they managed to finish the entire test on a single power unit in the second test.

 

Something tells me Mclaren had made up their mind in this testing to refrain from qualifying simulation whatsoever.  Fernando and Jenson's body language wouldn't be positive  if the package wasn't decently competitive. 

 

Yes it may take some time before we see it's full potential but my point is Mclaren will be more competitive in Australia than what we saw here. By how much margin i don't know but i think they will definitely be better than what  their lap times show here. 

Edited by Quickshifter, 04 March 2016 - 20:28.

[TomNokoe]

I hope they'll surprise in Melbourne, but they'll be nowhere if they have serious driveability issues.

[Quickshifter]

I hope they'll surprise in Melbourne, but they'll be nowhere if they have serious driveability issues.

Just like the claimed reliability issues spouted by some journos as clickbaits.  Now they have changed the tune to driveability.  Simply standing by the track side  no matter how much of an expert you are you cannot figure out driveability.  Naturally Honda are still fine tuning their engine management settings but even if there are issues they are not catastrophic enough to not to be solved on the dyno. I love how goal posts are moved everyday.  

Edited by Quickshifter, 04 March 2016 - 20:48.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

As I mentioned before, in my opinion reliability is still a question mark. Obviously Honda have improved reliability but at the same time they have to detune powerunit to control reliability.

 

Lets not forget that even the impressive mileage that McLarenHonda achieved in preseason tests was not like race distance with consecutive laps.

 

As all of us know that it is hard to draw any conclusion based on tests but I am a keyboard warrior and I have to draw a conclusion  :

 

Honestly in 2015 the gap was 2 to 3 seconds based on different tracks. So in my opinion based on preseason tests the gap has been reduced to 1.7-2.5 seconds till now. I think it is fair to say that we have closed the gap by 0.8 and it is encouraging compare to 2015 season specially when you consider that other teams have improved their pace too.

 

Well the season is long and there are lot's of tokens to use. We can close the gap through 2016 season.

 

I am optimistic 

Edited by RYARLE, 04 March 2016 - 20:55.

[Quickshifter]

This whole detuning was done in the first test when the new part was not ready to replace a part of suspect reliability around the inlet area. In the second test Honda ran the homologated engine with the updated part. Honda can always go bonkers on a dyno with all the max settings. When they are aon track they need to wind up the wick only after testing methodically. Now the power unit used in second test was an updated one which had to be tested thoroughly. I am not trying to defend Honda just saying that developing a power unit both in terms of power and reliability in such a short time frame isn't easy. 

Edited by Quickshifter, 04 March 2016 - 20:56.

[muramasa]

i dont know about that, the two versions are the same except the height of the main plane, i think either the lower version is enough to balance out the car, or they are giving honda a helping hand, until they can turn up the pu, also the engine cover didnt change, the sidepod hotair outlets did but they have no influence on rearwing performance, but the again, it is strange that the car has been labeled as tail happy, and eb said the high df wing would suit better, so maybe something is wrong

exactly, and it looks like fatter outlet is a prep for those hotter races in Mel (usually cool around 20C but can be hot) and Bahrain as well as other hotter races in summer. RBR were trying different rear configs too. I'm pretty sure all the other teams will run bigger outlet for hotter races as all teams have been changing outlet config depending on races much like basic aero. plus there is no such thing as new spec PU, the PU from last week is the Melbourne PU (with updates and tweaks to be added). Such thing as taller PU would require whole change to monocoque. All those stories (1st pu broke, 2nd pu taller, fighting match of 2 PUs etc etc etc etc etc) are all imagination/illusion by some usual suspects media. Remember those stories "will bring and test 8 PUs (clearly a joke, i mean total testing days are 8, so simply "one PU a day") ", "Fernando is checking dyno testing in person" etc etc?

 

regarding rear instability i agree with BillBald however, Nando said redesigning of rear of the car is needed and it seems they are in the middle of studying that area, so it's normal to trial lots of things/ways and take some time.

[Rudex]

today

[MortenF1]

We haven't had any concrete reports saying Button and Alonso never opened the DRS by any chance, have we? 

Either they ran the PU within it's limits - question we won't get an answer to in that case is by how much - or they are just as crap compared to the opposition as they were last year.

[ferkan]

 

 

 McLaren arrive in Australia without the homework done. The engine has improved, chassis no. Too much to do to think in Q3

 

Dont get this? I'm sure chassis improved, although "not understanding" rear suspension yet is worrying.

 

https://twitter.com/...826175059410945

Edited by ferkan, 04 March 2016 - 21:40.

[RedOne]

There's a few people still trapped in last years ultra negative mentality, but for the most part I think most of us can agree that this is nothing like last year.

Hell we still don't know where we will end up in the first race and that can be exciting because we can also see how much progress we can make from now until fp1 and going forwards we can look forward to many good things coming.

Edited by RedOne, 04 March 2016 - 21:50.

[f1rules]

We haven't had any concrete reports saying Button and Alonso never opened the DRS by any chance, have we? 

Either they ran the PU within it's limits - question we won't get an answer to in that case is by how much - or they are just as crap compared to the opposition as they were last year.

 

i hoped for that too, but many videos shows its open on the straight

[f1rules]

Dont get this? I'm sure chassis improved, although "not understanding" rear suspension yet is worrying.

 

https://twitter.com/...826175059410945

 

yeah i didnt get it either when i read it, here is another comment from, i think alonsos good journalist friend, which make perfectly sense, and which is what has been mentioned in here many times, power delivery not good and far to agressive ruining the tires, good thing is this can be solved through software i think
 

F1sMyDrug ‏@F1sMyDrug  2 t.2 timer sidenVis oversættelse

El motor #Honda es demasiado brusco en la entrega de potencia influyendo negativamente en el desgaste del neumático (via @carlosmiquelf1)

[ferkan]

There's a few people still trapped in last years ultra negative mentality, but for the most part I think most of us can agree that this is nothing like last year.

Hell we still don't know where we will end up in the first race and that can be exciting because we can also see how much progress we can make from now until fp1 and going forwards we can look forward to many good things coming regardless of where we start off initially.

Honestly, IMO team doesn't sound convinced as you would have hoped if you are Mclaren fan. I remember last year Ferrari and jump they made in one winter (especially with the engine) and everyone was impressed, and team just looked on it. Mclaren Honda doesn't look like that, I think they realize they have anywhere from 1.5 to 2 seconds deficit in Melbourne.

[smr]

That's good news then if the Engine has improved as it's an Engine formula... and weren't there reports saying McLaren were third quickest through sector 3? Anyway, the chassis is easier to improve than the engine I'd have thought and with all the money and resources at their disposal, and with their in season development rate - which is arguably the best of the field, the chassis can be brought up to speed relatively quickly... the amount of wind in the last two days probably hasn't helped and also the lead time on manufacturing and shipping out new parts wasn't enough with only 8 days of testing but I'm sure there will be a lot of new parts to try out in P1 at Melbourne.

[RedOne]

yeah i didnt get it either when i read it, here is another comment from, i think alonsos good journalist friend, which make perfectly sense, and which is what has been mentioned in here many times, power delivery not good and far to agressive ruining the tires, good thing is this can be solved through software i think

F1sMyDrug ‏@F1sMyDrug 2 t.2 timer sidenVis oversættelse

El motor #Honda es demasiado brusco en la entrega de potencia influyendo negativamente en el desgaste del neumático (via @carlosmiquelf1)

And with a big chunk of time gained with it since in every corner you are losing time.

[TomNokoe]

I'd have thought and with all the money and resources at their disposal, and with their in season development rate - which is arguably the best of the field...

Myth

[Talisman]

Much of the driveability problem can be worked around with software improvements hopefully with improved setup taking care of the rest.  I am cautiously optimistic with strong Q2 showings where I expect them to be.  The chassis is fundamentally probably quite strong.

 

Over the full season we should outdevelop everyone on the chassis side bar Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR.  On the PU side I hope we can outdevelop everyone.  I doubt Renault matches Honda in terms of resources even with full backing from the home company while Ferrari and Mercedes have less improvements to make.

 

At the start of the season though we'll have a hard time and even with two highly experienced drivers with the snatchy rear end maintaining the pace over a full race distance juggling with increased tyre wear could be a real issue.  At least though I'm expecting McLaren to be ahead of a good few more teams than last year.

[Seanspeed]

and with their in season development rate - which is arguably the best of the field

Arguably is right.  

 

I reckon it's not too difficult to find a way forward when you're a top team yet almost a backmarker.  Doing so when you're actually trying to challenge the leader is a *bit* more difficult.  

Edited by Seanspeed, 04 March 2016 - 22:14.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

2014 Ferrari powerunit had driveability problems (Sudden kick and aggressive power delivery) and it almost remained unsolved till the next season. Hopefully it is not going to be the case with Honda.

Edited by RYARLE, 04 March 2016 - 22:25.

[Seanspeed]

2014 Ferrari powerunit had driveability problems (Sudden kick and aggressive power delivery) and it almost remained unsolved till the last race of the season. Hopefully it is not going to be the case with Honda.

The 2014 Ferrari's driveability problems were not solved til 2015, actually.  The car had issues with that throughout the entire year and was certainly not 'fixed' at the last race. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

The 2014 Ferrari's driveability problems were not solved til 2015, actually.  The car had issues with that throughout the entire year and was certainly not 'fixed' at the last race. 

Actually that is what I meant. I just used wrong word. I did correct mine.

 

Driveability can be hardware related as well and it was the case with 2014 Ferrari powerunit despite software development was free.

Edited by RYARLE, 04 March 2016 - 22:28.

[RedOne]

2014 = no tokens no progress

[Quickshifter]

Unless and until i hear it from the team or drivers it is difficult to believe Honda are having driveability issues. I haven't heard single quote about this abrupt power delivery that is being bandied about. Australia will put a lot of myths to rest.

Edited by Quickshifter, 04 March 2016 - 22:30.

[Seanspeed]

Unless and until i hear it from the team or drivers it is difficult to believe Honda have driveability issues. I have heard single quote about this abrupt power delivery that is being bandied about. Australia will put a lot of myths to rest.

I have heard several trackside reports make note of it. 

 

It's not impossible Mclaren get on top of it by Melbourne, but to completely deny the issues(which can actually be seen by watching some of the videos of testing) seems like a way to set yourself up for disappointment. 

[RedOne]

We'll be ok. No driver is going to go into detail with the media about our weaknesses and I'm sure they will be sorted in short order anyway.

Edited by RedOne, 04 March 2016 - 22:34.

[FrontWing]

Unless and until i hear it from the team or drivers it is difficult to believe Honda are having driveability issues. I haven't heard single quote about this abrupt power delivery that is being bandied about. Australia will put a lot of myths to rest.

What's myths? That McLaren will be 10th at best. Stop kidding yourself buddy.

[Alonsofan007]

bbc's benson suggesting McLaren are 100hp down on mercs, well its benson   so take  with pinch of salt.

 

Didn't he last year report honda ICE are like 30 to 40 down ? so, it means honda did not make any ICE gains and Merc gained like 50+, assuming deployment is fixed i call 100bhp down  complete BS.

Edited by Alonsofan007, 04 March 2016 - 23:47.