517 replies to this topic

[Gilles4Ever]

The other threads that have been used for Pirelli tyre allocations etc are not really suitable for this kind of news and discussion so we have this thread for all the run of the mill news like tyre allocations etc. If there is something that warrants its own thread by all means keep that separate but for everyday news and discussion this is it.

 

Formula 1 teams' tyre choices for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix will be revealed by Pirelli at the start of this week, amid intrigue about just how different an approach top contenders have had.

 

http://www.motorspor...lian-gp-677897/

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Imagine it's an anti-climax and they all select the same compounds 

 

I'm expecting Ferrari to go softer than Merc alongside Red Bull.

[Marklar]

Pirelli Motorsport ‏@pirellisport

The selected sets per driver for the upcoming #F1 #AusGP! http://bit.ly/Racing_Colours 

 

 

Almost the same choices....and just 3 teams (Mercedes , Sauber, Haas) with (slightly) different selections within the team....

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 14:44.

[Markn93]

Very interesting that Merc boys have different allocation, I presume all that really means is they will run the difference , (1 soft vs medium) , in a practice session and so it doesn't have much of a meaningful impact.

[Timstr11]

So how does this work again?

[Gilles4Ever]

Medium will only be used in free practice?

[Marklar]

Medium will only be used in free practice?

They have to save up one set for the race as it is the mandatory tyre, but they don't have to race it.

 

Edit: now I'm trying to think why someone would just nominate one set of mediums, given that he wont practice with them before the race and therefore likely wont use it in the race either.

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 14:57.

[Jon83]

Cheese 2016!

[TomNokoe]

Hamilton will use 1 set of primes in FP1. After the alloted 30 minutes he will go to the Soft.

Rosberg will use 2 primes in FP1 as they have done historically.

That's the only difference I can see.


That's a lot of super softs though. Will they really need that many? They'll fall apart in the race.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2016 - 14:58.

[TomNokoe]

They have to save up one set for the race as it is the mandatory tyre, but they don't have to race it.

Save? Does save mean not worn?

[Gilles4Ever]

They have to save up one set for the race as it is the mandatory tyre, but they don't have to race it.

It didn't take long to confuse me and we haven't even got onto qualifying.

 

Mandatory but don't have to race it? 

[Marklar]

It didn't take long to confuse me and we haven't even got onto qualifying.
 
Mandatory but don't have to race it? 

Yes, Pirelli chooses two mandatory sets (in Australia one soft and one medium), you have to save up both sets for the race (you could use it before of course), but you have to race just at least on one of them.
 

Save? Does save mean not worn?

It can be worn, they are simply not allowed give this set back (usally they give the worn tyres back)

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 15:01.

[Gilles4Ever]

Yes, Pirelli chooses two mandatory sets (in Australia one soft and one medium), you have to save up both sets for the race (you could use it before of course), but you have to race just at least on one of them.
 

It can be worn, they are simply not allowed give this set back (usally they give the worn tyres back)

Ah so everybody will race on soft and super soft then?

[Kristian]

Given the new qualifying, I think teams might used a lot more softer tyres than originally planned, so a few will have to run the medium in the race, no? 

[TomNokoe]

quick mock-up for LewLew

FP1:MED1, SOFT1

FP2: SOFT2, SUPERSOFT1

FP3: SOFT3, SUPERSOFT2

Q1: SOFT4
Q2: SUPERSOFT3
Q3: SUPERSOFT4+5

Race: start on SUPERSOFT3 from Q2
New sets: 2x soft, 1x SS (maybe this can be utilised in Q2 or for 2 hot runs in FP3)

----
my initial impression is that, if wear rates are similar to last year (horrendously low) then having more faster tyres give you more time across FPs and Quali to get comfortable with faster tyres before the race, thus making you more fast.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2016 - 15:10.

[andrea303]

So this "tyre freedom" is just semantics unless they'd allow racing with whatever compounds available for each circuit. I guess only then you would see completely different strategies.

[Marklar]

Ah so everybody will race on soft and super soft then?

The guys who nominated two or more mediums could practice on one medium set and then race on the mandatory tyre. I wouldnt rule that out that (although based on the Barcelona test it looks like the teams will race almost the whole race on the middle tyre, in this case the soft).

 

The guys who didnt choosed any medium tyre themselves (just the mandatory tyre) are definetely not planning to run the mediums in the race (unless if they have to change strategy). I don't see much sense here tbh.

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 15:10.

[Exb]

quick mock-up for LewLew

FP1:MED1, SOFT1

FP2: SOFT2, SUPERSOFT1

FP3: SOFT3, SUPERSOFT2

Q1: SOFT4
Q2: SUPERSOFT3
Q3: SUPERSOFT4+5

Race: start on SUPERSOFT3 from Q2
New sets: 2x soft, 1x SS (maybe this can be utilised in Q2 or for 2 hot runs in FP3)

----
my initial impression is that, if wear rates are similar to last year (horrendously low) then having more faster tyres give you more time across FPs and Quali to get comfortable with faster tyres before the race, thus making you more fast.

Unless I misunderstand the rules then it doesn't quite work - Hamilton only has 1 set of mediums, therefore he can't use it in FP1 as that set has to go back to Pirelli and he has to save 1 set of mediums for the race. 

[cokata]

The SS to S gap isn't that big. It would be a big advantage to Merc or Ferrari if they are fast enough to make it out of Q2 with the softs. Since overtaking is difficult and the pit time is relatively long 1 stop would be viable IMO even if more agressive 2 stop might be quicker in clear air. Anyway the best thing about the rules is that undercutting might not longer be so decisive as it was since if you wait longer you might put on the hardest tire and make the race with 1 stop less.

[Marklar]

Unless I misunderstand the rules then it doesn't quite work - Hamilton only has 1 set of mediums, therefore he can't use it in FP1 as that set has to go back to Pirelli and he has to save 1 set of mediums for the race. 

He can used it, but he is not allowed to give it back again, so he has to give in this case an other tyre back (which he didnt even used). I reckon that the drivers who have just one medium are ignoring this tyre completely.

[cokata]

Unless I misunderstand the rules then it doesn't quite work - Hamilton only has 1 set of mediums, therefore he can't use it in FP1 as that set has to go back to Pirelli and he has to save 1 set of mediums for the race. 

There are 13 sets for the weekend. 10 are chosen by the driver, 2 are set aside for the race by Pirelli (most likely for every track 2 of the harder range for AUS M and S) and 1 set of the softest tire if you make it into Q3

Edited by cokata, 08 March 2016 - 15:19.

[TomNokoe]

Unless I misunderstand the rules then it doesn't quite work - Hamilton only has 1 set of mediums, therefore he can't use it in FP1 as that set has to go back to Pirelli and he has to save 1 set of mediums for the race.

Right, OK.
Previously, didn't Pirelli supply the teams with an extra set of primes, and so the ruling was *this* specific tyre will be revoked after 30minutes. The 30-min prime.

This has thrown that up in the air then... Is there no longer a specific and equal tyre set that Pirelli say 'guys we are taking this back after 30mins if FP1'. Maybe Hamilton has foregone that obligation? Or does it become 'guys the tyre you use in the first 30mins of FP1 we will take back'?

Goodness there are so many possibilities

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 March 2016 - 15:22.

[Marklar]

Right, OK.
Previously, didn't Pirelli supply the teams with an extra set of primes, and so the ruling was *this* specific tyre will be revoked after 30minutes. The 30-min prime.

This has thrown that up in the air then... Is there no longer a tyre set that Pirelli say 'guys we are taking this back after 30mins if FP1' or does it become 'guys the tyre you use in the first 30mins of FP1 we will take back'?

Goodness there are so many possibilities

The teams can use the tyres whenever they want, but they have to give at some points tyres back

• 1 set after 40 minutes in FP1
• 1 set after FP1
• 2 sets after FP2
• 2 sets after FP3

It's up to the teams which tyres they will give back, it's just important that of the remaining tyres they stil have the two mandatory sets (in AUS medium and soft).

[milestone 11]

I'm clueless. I cannot see any logic whatsoever in choosing just one set of mediums.

[FPV GTHO]

He can used it, but he is not allowed to give it back again, so he has to give in this case an other tyre back (which he didnt even used). I reckon that the drivers who have just one medium are ignoring this tyre completely.

I agree that anybody who hasnt picked a second set of Mediums is not going to race it, or theyre confident enough to go in blind. 

Edited by FPV GTHO, 08 March 2016 - 15:28.

[cokata]

I'm clueless. I cannot see any logic whatsoever in choosing just one set of mediums.

I'm 99% certain it will be the set he will use in the first 40 mins of FP1 . When you just go out for installation lap and some general set up it's normal to use the hardest tire

[Marklar]

No the Pirelli set is locked until the race, as is the Q3 set until then. 

 

That's wrong. From the Sporting Regulations

 

The extra Q3 tyre may not be used nor returned before Q3, but the mandatory tyre may just not be returned before the race, which means that you can use them also in practice.

[FPV GTHO]

I'm 99% certain it will be the set he will use in the first 40 mins of FP1 . When you just go out for installation lap and some general set up it's normal to use the hardest tire

No. Pirelli nominated a set of each compount for everybody. Those that make Q3 have to use the Super Soft, and everybody has to either use the Soft or Medium set they picked for the race. 

I'm pretty sure none of the 3 could be used earlier but not certain. I cant see why someone would use them during practise but then hand back a green set of tyres instead, and you certainly cant hand back any of the Pirelli nominated sets

[Marklar]

I'm 99% certain it will be the set he will use in the first 40 mins of FP1 . When you just go out for installation lap and some general set up it's normal to use the hardest tire

But here comes the problem IMO. If you are using your only medium tyre in the first 40 minutes, you cant give this set back as it is the mandatory tyre. Therefore you have to give one of the others (unworn) tyres back, which makes no sense.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Is this possibly the most complicated set of regulations EVER introduced....

 

How is a casual or new viewer supposed to understand this.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 March 2016 - 15:35.

[cokata]

But here comes the problem IMO. If you are using your only medium tyre in the first 40 minutes, you cant give this set back as it is the mandatory tyre. Therefore you have to give one of the others (unworn) tyres back, which makes no sense.

Oh my mistake. I failed to notice the graph shows total amount of sets, and not the 10 selected by drivers. So yes the only difference is that Hamilton will never use medium during the weekend while his teammate and most others will use ones set of medium for FP1.

 

And the reason Manor's selection is so different is that did not make the deadline and this the default selection made by Pirelli.

Edited by cokata, 08 March 2016 - 15:39.

[FPV GTHO]

That's wrong. From the Sporting Regulations

 

The extra Q3 tyre may not be used nor returned before Q3, but the mandatory tyre may just not be returned before the race, which means that you can use them also in practice.

OK then so that gives someone like Hamilton a bit of breathing room, but i doubt he will be able to do a long run on the Medium during practice and still get a useable stint from the tyre during the race - should he choose to use it over the Pirelli allocated Soft. 

[Marklar]

OK then so that gives someone like Hamilton a bit of breathing room, but i doubt he will be able to do a long run on the Medium during practice and still get a useable stint from the tyre during the race - should he choose to use it over the Pirelli allocated Soft. 

Yep

 

I reckon that the 9 drivers who have just this one Pirelli allocated medium tyre wont use the medium tyre the whole weekend (keep in mind that in the past always 1-2 sets of the hardest tyres were not used during the weekend), unless they are changing the strategy during the race. Makes the set-up much easier on the same time. On the other hand those who have two mediums might be more flexibel in the race. The differences will be small though.

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 15:48.

[cokata]

Yep

 

I reckon that the 9 drivers who have just this one Pirelli allocated medium tyre wont use the medium tyre the whole weekend, unless they are changing the strategy during the race. Makes the set-up much easier on the same time.

To quote Kimi "Bah, it doesn't make much difference anyway." Rosberg will have some data on the medium, which should mean in theory he should be better prepared for a 1 stopper, while hamilton will have a little more info on the soft tire which will be the prefered race tire for a 2 stop race

[Exb]

Yep

 

I reckon that the 9 drivers who have just this one Pirelli allocated medium tyre wont use the medium tyre the whole weekend (keep in mind that in the past always 1-2 sets were not used during the weekend), unless they are changing the strategy during the race. Makes the set-up much easier on the same time.

It also means that they go into the weekend only really having 12 sets of tyres (as 1 will just sit there with no intention of being used unless something goes off plan).

[anyeis]

Taking 7 supersofts is odd

[Marklar]

Taking 7 supersofts is odd

This is indeed very odd. With the new quali format the super softs are worthless (they didnt knew it though, shows how ridicolous that is). And in the race they will fall apart after 8 laps.

 

It also means that they go into the weekend only really having 12 sets of tyres (as 1 will just sit there with no intention of being used unless something goes off plan).

Yep, but this is nothing new. Often the teams are not using 1-2 sets of the prime tyres anyway. The problem is just that you are less flexible. Imagine a SC halfway through the race, then you have to switch to the mediums to drive to the end. And that could be tricky without any experience....

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 15:58.

[cokata]

Red Bull have only 1 set of Medium and 4 sets of Softs. SS-S-SS strategy?

[FPV GTHO]

I wouldnt be too quick to rule the Super Softs as useless. I expect the qualifying runs will still work much the same as before, a top team doing a single Q1 run, up to 2 Q2 runs and up to 3 Q3 runs. 

[Marklar]

Red Bull have only 1 set of Medium and 4 sets of Softs. SS-S-SS strategy?

Is that even possible I wonder?
 
They have 2 sets of medium btw.

I wouldnt be too quick to rule the Super Softs as useless. I expect the qualifying runs will still work much the same as before, a top team doing a single Q1 run, up to 2 Q2 runs and up to 3 Q3 runs.

For the top teams not, but for the others?

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 16:02.

[anyeis]

This is indeed very odd. With the new quali format the super softs are worthless (they didnt knew it though, shows how ridicolous that is). And in the race they will fall apart after 8 laps.

Worthless? I dont think the quali is changing much. Its still one lap and done

[cokata]

Is that even possible I wonder?
 
They have 2 sets of medium btw.

For the top teams not, but for the others?

Correct 2 sets of medium. I expect that unless the temperatures are very high the SS will last more than 10 laps, especially if you have good car with a lot of downforce (something RBR certainly don't lack) and if the car is light. They may be able to pull of close to 20 lap final SS stint, and maybe the middle soft stint will be around 30 laps.

[Marklar]

Worthless? I dont think the quali is changing much. Its still one lap and done

The problem of the new qualifying format is that after the first 7 minutes are over, you have to stay (unless you are extremely fast in the first minutes) out for 9 minutes and set fast times to secure that you stay in. This will be tough with super softs. It depends of course on the approach here, some will risk it and change the tyres in between, but I reckon that the teams would choose less Supersofts if they knew about the quali changes at that point

[FPV GTHO]

I think the big difference will be instead of waiting till the end of the session to do laps, teams will put in a banker lap ASAP and then run 1-2 more laps when under threat. I dont imagine you'll see teams staying out there the whole session in vain. 

[cokata]

The problem of the new qualifying format is that after the first 7 minutes are over, you have to stay (unless you are extremely fast in the first minutes) out for 9 minutes and set fast times to secure that you stay in. This will be tough with super softs. It depends of course on the approach here, some will risk it and change the tyres in between, but I reckon that the teams would choose less Supersofts if they knew about the quali changes at that point

I don't think much will change with qually. The only difference that i can see is that if let's say a top driver/team messes up on the first lap (within the first 7 or 6 minutes or however long that period is) it will force them to go out earlier to do their second lap, and not wait until the last 2 minutes of the session to go out.

[Exb]

The problem of the new qualifying format is that after the first 7 minutes are over, you have to stay (unless you are extremely fast in the first minutes) out for 9 minutes and set fast times to secure that you stay in. This will be tough with super softs. It depends of course on the approach here, some will risk it and change the tyres in between, but I reckon that the teams would choose less Supersofts if they knew about the quali changes at that point

But the supersofts are faster - that is the tyre they need to be on, even if they have to pit to change them. No point running 4 laps at 1.30 if they could have done 1 lap at 1.29

(If anything I expect the teams that used to gamble on getting through on the harder tyre, and then go again on the softer one if it looked a bit close to the cutoff to just go straight onto the fastest tyre for 1 lap)

[Marklar]

On a side note AMuS reports that at Mercedes and Force India not the drivers are choosing the tyres, but the engineers. With the remark that this will go well until one of the drivers is complaining

[cokata]

With the new qually format i expect or at least hope that we are going to see the running more spread out during the sessions (epecially for Q3) and not have it all concentrated in the last 2-3 mins, with the first 10-12 being fairly quiet.

[Marklar]

But the supersofts are faster - that is the tyre they need to be on, even if they have to pit to change them. No point running 4 laps at 1.30 if they could have done 1 lap at 1.29

(If anything I expect the teams that used to gamble on getting through on the harder tyre, and then go again on the softer one if it looked a bit close to the cutoff to just go straight onto the fastest tyre for 1 lap)

We'll see. It depends on how close the teams are in the elimination zone and how the track is developing.

 

If they are indeed approaching to pit for super softs during Q1 several times (I'm talking about the teams who are in danger to drop off), then they will run out of tyres pretty fast. One more reason to hate the new quali format....

 

One more problem, although not an issue in Melbourne, is that on some tracks the softest tyre will have problems to survive a whole quali lap

Edited by Marklar, 08 March 2016 - 16:24.

[FPV GTHO]

A reminder of how last year's race went for strategy.

http://www.jamesalle...ian-grand-prix/

25 laps in many cases on Soft's that did qualifying and full fuel loads. The Super Soft will be fine.