131 replies to this topic

[JHSingo]

Meanwhile, in Australia...

 

 

F5000 is back!

BIG BANGER open-wheeler racing is set to return to Australia next year when Formula Thunder 5000 hits the racetracks.

 

The new category, which has been under development for more than two years, is planning a modern equivalent of the Tasman Series of the 1960s and ’70s, with events in New Zealand in December and on this side of the Tasman Sea in January/February 2017.

 

The series will be for a single make of chassis, which is based on the design previously used in the Japanese Formula Nippon Series. The engines, which will produce up to 570 horsepower will, like their Formula 5000 namesakes from the 1970s, be based on a production block V8 engine.

 

...

 

The racing version will feature bespoke fuel injection and a dry sump, with an ‘old school’ airbox design reminiscent of that found on 1970 Lola F5000s. The car will maintain the Swift’s rear wing design, possibly with modifications, but will feature a revised front end rather than the Nippon car’s distinctive ‘dolphin’ front wing. Under-car aero has also been reduced, all aimed at creating a car where mechanical grip and driver input regains its prominence over aerodynamic performance.

 

http://autoaction.co...204021419653102

 

Given all the dissatisfaction on this board with F1 currently, thought this would appeal to some!

Certainly a decent looking machine, anyway. I'll be intrigued to see how this series does.

[Risil]

Look at those tyres!

[Nemick]

Certainly appeals to me. 

[jeremy durward]

Look at those tyres!

 

And they are apparently smaller then the intended ones. They are sourcing tyres that are 50mm wider on the rear!!!

[HaydenFan]

So big engines in a decade old car. Hmmm... that Atlantics/Formula Nippon car was a beauty. And fast. But anything will be quick with that tires. But good grief. That airbox could suck in small children (or a kangaroo being as it is Australia). 

[johnmhinds]

http://www.speedcafe...egory-launched/

 

Airbox doesn't look functional?

 

 

Wheels don't seem to fit very well either.

 

Sounds more like dreamer just doing a bit of a bodge job with an old Formula Nippon chassis.

Edited by johnmhinds, 31 March 2016 - 00:22.

[JacnGille]

[AustinF1]

In.

[maximilian]

First reaction:  awesome, I wanna see more!  I was going to start this thread myself, but then saw it already exists!

[maximilian]

http://www.speedcafe...egory-launched/

 

Airbox doesn't look functional?

 

 

Wheels don't seem to fit very well either.

 

Sounds more like dreamer just doing a bit of a bodge job with an old Formula Nippon chassis.

 

 

The airbox looks like it's just a mock-up of what will be one day a real one.  I guess the original FN chassis didn't have/need one that large, using a different engine?  Or maybe they are just going for that 70's look...  Looks huge from the side, but decent from the front...

[MattPete]

Damn straight!

[johnmhinds]

The airbox looks like it's just a mock-up of what will be one day a real one.  I guess the original FN chassis didn't have/need one that large, using a different engine?  Or maybe they are just going for that 70's look...  Looks huge from the side, but decent from the front...

 

Doesn't really sound like he has a solid plan from the articles i've read though.

 

He says some stuff about using this old Formula Nippon chassis to make a prototype (only sounds like he has one old chassis) and then some stuff about Australia having manufacturing capability to make more chassis for him but doesn't say he has anyone signed up to make the cars for him.

 

How is he going to have a racing series at the end of this year if he hasn't found someone to make the chassis for him yet, and he doesn't have any competitors signed up.

[whitewaterMkII]

heh

First race I saw in Long Beach was Brian Redman winning in F5000.

Just for giggles, here's an F5000 barn find Lola T332 from 1975, no bodywork.

Yikes!

[jeremy durward]

Doesn't really sound like he has a solid plan from the articles i've read though.

 

He says some stuff about using this old Formula Nippon chassis to make a prototype (only sounds like he has one old chassis) and then some stuff about Australia having manufacturing capability to make more chassis for him but doesn't say he has anyone signed up to make the cars for him.

 

How is he going to have a racing series at the end of this year if he hasn't found someone to make the chassis for him yet, and he doesn't have any competitors signed up.

 

He also speaks about dealing directly with Swift who made the Nippon chassis too. I'd say the plan is to manufacture more chassis to the Swift design in Australia. As for someone signed up to make them doesn't it say in at least one article the car is with Borland? They used to make Formula Fords. Plus there will be a few obsolete Formula Nippon cars begging for a V8 in the back of them.

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Meanwhile, in Australia...

 

 

F5000 is back!
 

 

http://autoaction.co...204021419653102

 

 I'll be intrigued to see how this series does.

 

Or even IF it does........

[johnmhinds]

He also speaks about dealing directly with Swift who made the Nippon chassis too. I'd say the plan is to manufacture more chassis to the Swift design in Australia. As for someone signed up to make them doesn't it say in at least one article the car is with Borland? They used to make Formula Fords. Plus there will be a few obsolete Formula Nippon cars begging for a V8 in the back of them.

 

Well Borland has something to do with it as the front wing he is using looks like a wider version of their F2000 wing.

 

[dbltop]

heh

First race I saw in Long Beach was Brian Redman winning in F5000.

Just for giggles, here's an F5000 barn find Lola T332 from 1975, no bodywork.

Yikes!

Just like lipstick on a pig maybe?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Meanwhile, in Australia...



F5000 is back!



http://autoaction.co...204021419653102

Given all the dissatisfaction on this board with F1 currently, thought this would appeal to some!

Certainly a decent looking machine, anyway. I'll be intrigued to see how this series does.

Sorry but it looks like something out of wacky races/super Mario...

[ckolcz]

I'm in!

[anbeck]

But will anybody be interested in buying a car that only runs 2 months per year?

 

I like the retro-look of the car and would be happy to see this come to fruition.

[Nemo1965]

heh

First race I saw in Long Beach was Brian Redman winning in F5000.

Just for giggles, here's an F5000 barn find Lola T332 from 1975, no bodywork.

Yikes!

 

Ugly as it may be. But if I would find THAT in a barn of a deceased uncle, I would get an erection.

 

PS: Did I just write that?

[PayasYouRace]

The 70s really was motor racing's ugly duckling phase.

[GSiebert]

Now that's something I didn't see coming ! Too bad it's very far from the very non-spec series that it once was.

 

http://www.motorspor...aunches-683105/

[statman]

Chassis: Modified Formula Nippon Swift made chassis with 70's style tall airbox
Engine: 5.0 litre Ford Coyote based V8 engine

 

“We wanted to create a car which would provide a challenge.

“With around 570bhp in a car weighing around 680kg, the FT5000 car will provide the same sort of power-to- weight ratio, sight, and V8 sound, that the original F5000 cars did.

“That’s what motorsport fans want.”

 

 

http://www.speedcafe...egory-launched/

[V8 Fireworks]

Chassis: Modified Formula Nippon Swift made chassis with 70's style tall airbox
Engine: 5.0 litre Ford Coyote based V8 engine

 

“We wanted to create a car which would provide a challenge.

“With around 570bhp in a car weighing around 680kg, the FT5000 car will provide the same sort of power-to- weight ratio, sight, and V8 sound, that the original F5000 cars did.

“That’s what motorsport fans want.”

 

 

http://www.speedcafe...egory-launched/

 

I like it, I like it alot.  Is it really feasible?  Taking the focus off V8 supercars?

 

Or is it designed by a bunch of dreamers, never to be heard of again. 

 

Surely even the Coyote is WAY too heavy... I would have hoped a high level open wheel class would use the LMP1 Judd 4.2 V10 engine (very durable and reliable 700bhp) as the Formula Superfund proposed to use quite some time ago...

 

How the hell did they get a 195kg engine (dry weight!!????) into a car, and make it weigh just 680kg. That's incredible, great work!!!        

Being based on F. Nippon you would think the chassis is NOWHERE NEAR up-to-date current F1 crash testing specs, and so they may run into some troubles with FIA when proposing to race SUCH fast cars IMO.   

[V8 Fireworks]

Working on the project for almost two years, Lambden hopes that today’s public launch will draw firm orders for cars, which are expected to cost around $240,000 each.

 

 

Is that even possible!!??? That's less than a tube-frame saloon touring car.  Is this price achieved by using second-hand Formula Nippon tubs. ( Raises eyebrow. )  Does this make this an amateur class, rather than one that will attract international-calibre open-wheel talent. Hmmmm.... the plot thickens.

[statman]

I like it, I like it alot.  Is it really feasible?  Taking the focus off V8 supercars?

 

Or is it designed by a bunch of dreamers, never to be heard of again. 

 

Surely even the Coyote is WAY too heavy... I would have hoped a high level open wheel class would use the LMP1 Judd 4.2 V10 engine (very durable and reliable 700bhp) as the Formula Superfund proposed to use quite some time ago...

 

How the hell did they get a 195kg engine (dry weight!!????) into a car, and make it weigh just 680kg. That's incredible, great work!!!        

Being based on F. Nippon you would think the chassis is NOWHERE NEAR up-to-date current F1 crash testing specs, and so they may run into some troubles with FIA when proposing to race SUCH fast cars IMO.   

I'm not familliar with chassis, but it says:

'a Swift-designed, Australian-built evolution of a chassis originally created for Formula Nippon' “The design is fully FIA crash-test compliant, so it’s right up there in terms of safety standards"

 

Although relatively tame aerodynamically for modern standards, the new cars are expected to lap quicker than the originals, one of which currently holds the outright lap record at Sandown.

[GSiebert]

“We wanted to create a car which would provide a challenge.

“With around 570bhp in a car weighing around 680kg, the FT5000 car will provide the same sort of power-to- weight ratio, sight, and V8 sound, that the original F5000 cars did.

“That’s what motorsport fans want.”

It's quite irrelevant to compare power-to-weight ratio with the values from the 70's as modern aerodynamics and tires will give the car a lot more grip.

[JHSingo]

http://forums.autosp...rn-for-the-70s/

[V8 Fireworks]

I'm not familliar with chassis, but it says:

'a Swift-designed, Australian-built evolution of a chassis originally created for Formula Nippon' “The design is fully FIA crash-test compliant, so it’s right up there in terms of safety standards"

 

 

What year though?  2005? 2001?    Is that going to be deemed acceptable when (hopefully) van Gisbergen, Lowndes et al. are flinging these things off the walls in the Surfers Paradise Grand Prix, Adelaide Grand Prix etc.  Given how FIA make F1 crash tests tougher every year... 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 31 March 2016 - 11:16.

[HistoryFan]

wow I really look forward to these series although I think it could be a very small grid with many series in Australia are struggeling (F4, F3)

[Wuzak]

It will be interesting to see where they race.

 

Not all of Australia's circuits would be suitable for such fast cars.

 

Phillip Island and Eastern Creek will probably be certainties. Maybe Bathurst? Sandown?

 

They said 7 circuits, so I expect 3 in NZ and 4 in Oz. The only circuit I know of in NZ is Pukekohe. Anybody know any more?

[GSiebert]

They said 7 circuits, so I expect 3 in NZ and 4 in Oz. The only circuit I know of in NZ is Pukekohe. Anybody know any more?

Manfeild, Teretonga, Ruapuna ...

[V8 Fireworks]

Manfeild, Teretonga, Ruapuna ...

 

Not to mention Hampton Downs and Highlands.  Lots of tracks in NZ!

 

I am very skeptical about the price and weight goals set for this car.  I think even if they can complete the cars, they will cost more than $240,000 and they will weigh much more than 680kg... maybe closer to 900kg!

 

As they say: 

1. Cheap

2. Lightweight (or fast)

3. Reliable

Pick two.  

 

I think if they want cheap and reliable, than their cars will be very heavy for an open-wheeler... 

[PayasYouRace]

How quick was the F.Nippon chassis that it's based on? I know current Super Formula is pretty quick.

[johnmhinds]

What year though? 2005? 2001? Is that going to be deemed acceptable when (hopefully) van Gisbergen, Lowndes et al. are flinging these things off the walls in the Surfers Paradise Grand Prix, Adelaide Grand Prix etc. Given how FIA make F1 crash tests tougher every year...

The chassis he has been playing with is only around 5 years old.

He isn't going to be buying 16 old Formula Nippon chassis though, he is talking about making new cars that are partly clones of that chassis to get around FIA crash test rules.

I don't think the FIA would let him get away with that.

The whole thing sounds poorly thought out.

Edited by johnmhinds, 31 March 2016 - 13:03.

[senna da silva]

That HAS to be sponsored by Gitanes!

[Calorus]

Not to mention Hampton Downs and Highlands.  Lots of tracks in NZ!

 

I am very skeptical about the price and weight goals set for this car.  I think even if they can complete the cars, they will cost more than $240,000 and they will weigh much more than 680kg... maybe closer to 900kg!

 

As they say: 

1. Cheap

2. Lightweight (or fast)

3. Reliable

Pick two.  

 

I think if they want cheap and reliable, than their cars will be very heavy for an open-wheeler... 

 

That's only true in competitive design race series. In one make you put 500bhp in anything that weighs less than a tonne, it'll be fast.

 

It's quite irrelevant to compare power-to-weight ratio with the values from the 70's as modern aerodynamics and tires will give the car a lot more grip.

 

It's a one-make series, if they remove the wings and diffuser and specify plastic tyres, then it'll be a challenge.

 

It will be interesting to see where they race.

 

Not all of Australia's circuits would be suitable for such fast cars.

 

Phillip Island and Eastern Creek will probably be certainties. Maybe Bathurst? Sandown?

 

They said 7 circuits, so I expect 3 in NZ and 4 in Oz. The only circuit I know of in NZ is Pukekohe. Anybody know any more?

 

As the Aussies would say "drink a cup of concrete"...

[paulb]

I like the DRS implementation.

[l8apex]

This won't happen.

 

If they / he had secured a big supply of older swift chassis, I would say it had a shot, but manufacturing an old chassis in Australia .... doesn't make any sense.

 

The tall air box is also completely ********.  I'm all about the engine and tires though.

[TecnoRacing]

 

The tall air box is also completely ********.  I'm all about the engine and tires though.

 

  The high airbox is the best part...and screams Formula 5000. It is definitely a homage to Lola T332.

 

That HAS to be sponsored by Gitanes!

 

This one looks nothing like the absurb and bulbous teapot Ligier. Liking high airboxes in general does not require you like that one...

[chrisPB15]

http://www.speedcafe...egory-launched/

 

Airbox doesn't look functional?

 

 

Wheels don't seem to fit very well either.

 

Sounds more like dreamer just doing a bit of a bodge job with an old Formula Nippon chassis.

 

 

He can bodge it up all he wants. It's got the name 'Thunder' and the V8 sound.  Those who've been wallerin about f1 becoming too efficient, will be a-coming down fum th'hills in their 1000's to listen to this.

[V8 Fireworks]

No surprise people are skeptical until they a running prototype AND a field of completed cars.

[DS27]

Makes me smile when I look at it, and it would make me smile when / if it runs, so i'm all for it.

 

Will probably never happen, but at least there are some out there with the right idea.

[BRG]

That HAS to be sponsored by Gitanes!

No, I think the guy is smoking something else entirely.

 

What happened to that proposed CanAm revival series a few years ago?  Mclaren M8 lookalikes with a tonking big V8?  Great idea, but never actually happened and nor will this.

[Ospif1]

I'm confident it will come to fruition, though whether they are ready to race by the end of this year I have my doubts.  That being said, the project has the right people involved, Holinger on the gearbox development, Motec on the electronics, InnoV8 on the engine, Gigi on the tyre development and the bodywork/tub by a guy with a lot of experience in that department.

 

The monocoque design isn't old and is remaining unchanged, there's no worries when it comes to safety in that regard.

 

The engine choice may not be ideal when it comes to dimensions or weight, but it's cheap, delivers adequate power reliably, will achieve the "thunder" sound being aimed for (crossplane crank engine) and is being developed locally, which was another goal of the project to keep it as locally sourced as possible.

[statman]

Q&A with the man behind this new series:

 

http://autoaction.co...-f5000-thunder/

[johnmhinds]

Looks like the same article that was posted on the other sites?

[wonk123]

 

 

[wonk123]

As someone mentioned in the V8SC thread, I would like to see them run the ford Voodoo rather than the coyote. In stock form they make 526hp with a flat plane crank and run to 8250rpm. Add the stack injection and motec they already have, it would sound amazing