3979 replies to this topic

[Pumpkinz]

 

Third picture we can see mclaren introducing a beam wing., i did not see redbull running it, why are mclaren  running inefficient downforce and can cause a negative effect rather than positive. even with this downforce configuration mclaren seem to pretty good on the straights as we saw from qualifying.

 

Where did you see a Beam Wing like Structure on the McLaren?   

Please don't tell me you mean that one Picture that is taken at an Angle that makes the rear lower Wishbone (with the encased Driveshaft) look like a Beam Wing....

 

Edit:

that one

Edited by Pumpkinz, 21 April 2016 - 07:17.

[blacky]

Back to the HCCI. If Merc, Ferrari and Honda are using it t

 

Well, AMuS won't make several articles about Honda ("that they know Mercedes secret now"), talk to responsibles about how many tokens they will need for this "trick" (even with Wolff) when they already have it. AMuS is one of the most respectable magazines about F1, years ahead of such clowns like Ted.

[Quickshifter]

These teams are so tight lipped about everything it is nearly impossible to figure out what type of ignition they are running unless there are direct quotes from the team. It is impossible to say from outside as to the nature of the ignition from engine noise alone.

[Pumpkinz]

True, that's a shame and a missed Opportunity. The Kind of Technology in these PU's needs to be Showcased, not hidden away at all costs.

[CPR]

True, that's a shame and a missed Opportunity. The Kind of Technology in these PU's needs to be Showcased, not hidden away at all costs.

 

I was really happy that Honda would show their engines in public - all those lovely pics from last year

 

If it was me writing the rules I'd have the championship winner required to make a 30 minute technical video on their car and engine, showing all the detail below the surface. The technology needs to be celebrated more not hidden away!

 

PS Regarding HCCI - I don't think Honda have even upgraded their combustion chamber over the winter, let alone having something like HCCI already. I dunno when they'll have it or when the first upgrade will come but currently I'm expecting that their first in-season token use will be a big one that focuses on the core combustion region of the engine, possibly using 10 or so tokens. This is just my feeling though.

Edited by CPR, 21 April 2016 - 08:10.

[rabbitleader]

Hoping McLarenHonda don't currently have HCCI so that this is at least one more identifiable gain on the development list. Nothing worse than having exhausted all ideas and still 2 seconds plus of the pace.

[Owen]

Hoping McLarenHonda don't currently have HCCI so that this is at least one more identifiable gain on the development list. Nothing worse than having exhausted all ideas and still 2 seconds plus of the pace.

Given the infancy of the entire Honda PU project ; I'd be surprised if this is already functional, and on the car.

I think the PU upgrades getting introduced later this year and Capito joining are going to be 2 seminal moments for the team this year.

[autof1fan]

i had a trouble last time upload picture but with the help of RYARLE, i was able add the picture i edited. so i am going to repost the article with the image

 

 

Picture 2 from the Top you can see the mclaren running 3 protruding winglets on the side rear wing, and compare with the redbull rear, you will none of that. It was meant to add donwforce but is this efficient downforce or does this cause more drag resistance and reducing aero efficiency.
Mclaren is also seen running the monkey wing in china and the redbull did not, remember china has a long straight and rebull you can see are not running it as a result getting better aero efficiency and better speed on straight. all of rebull excellent downforce is from the rear wing and through the floor section. aero efficiency is shown clearly by redbull . I remember jenson Button talking to the media and saying something like Mclaren need to working on getting usable downforce bascially  indirectly implying mclaren are running draggy winglets.

 
Third picture we can see mclaren introducing a  beam  like wing , i did not see redbull running it, why are mclaren  running inefficient downforce and can cause a negative effect rather than positive. even with this downforce configuration mclaren seem to pretty good on the straights as we saw from qualifying.
 
In 2014 mclaren mercedes introduced the suspension blockers as shown above. They were reported at that time to produce the most peak downforce a team produced at any given time compared to any other team. But did that translate to mclaren mercedes being quick in track? No NO. They infact finished 5th position in constructors. Mercedes F1 won the title  due to good aero efficient chassis. Having the most downforce does not necessarily mean you will be quick in track and this was evidence,

 

So please Eric Boullier dont try to get credit to yourself  and the aero team, when mclaren were almost close to getting Q3 in china and start pointing fingers at honda when the result was bad. because the  reality is that you just trying to save your job.. You very lucky Ron  blocked honda from supplying redbull, If that would have worked out, your job Eric will be on the line, Just compare Renault f1 speed with redbull F1, both running same engine but redbull just a superior chassis compare to Renault, and renault is infact slower than mclaren F1. this is the same case with mercedes f1 and manor f1. same engine  but mercedes just a superior aero efficient chassis.
And also Eric dont come and  tell the media that mclaren want to win tommorrow but honda want to win but not necessarily tommorrow, its a sign of a insecure selfish man scared that he will lose his job.
I sincerely hope mclaren and honda raise their game and hopefully we could see podium result soon and every mclaren fan can rejoice.

Edited by autof1fan, 21 April 2016 - 08:46.

[balmybaldwin]

You really are deluded.

 

And just after someone said you aren't looking at the suspension struts thinking they are a beam wing are you? Yes you are.

 

Ps with regards to your winglets.  Look up Gurney's boundary theory

[Pumpkinz]

Ok your "Beam Wing" isn't the lower Wishbone as i suspected earlier, it is the upper Wishbone. 

Edited by Pumpkinz, 21 April 2016 - 09:01.

[Lemans]

i had a trouble last time upload picture but with the help of RYARLE, i was able add the picture i edited. so i am going to repost the article with the image

 

 

Picture 2 from the Top you can see the mclaren running 3 protruding winglets on the side rear wing, and compare with the redbull rear, you will none of that. It was meant to add donwforce but is this efficient downforce or does this cause more drag resistance and reducing aero efficiency.
Mclaren is also seen running the monkey wing in china and the redbull did not, remember china has a long straight and rebull you can see are not running it as a result getting better aero efficiency and better speed on straight. all of rebull excellent downforce is from the rear wing and through the floor section. aero efficiency is shown clearly by redbull . I remember jenson Button talking to the media and saying something like Mclaren need to working on getting usable downforce bascially  indirectly implying mclaren are running draggy winglets.

 
Third picture we can see mclaren introducing a  beam  like wing , i did not see redbull running it, why are mclaren  running inefficient downforce and can cause a negative effect rather than positive. even with this downforce configuration mclaren seem to pretty good on the straights as we saw from qualifying.
 
In 2014 mclaren mercedes introduced the suspension blockers as shown above. They were reported at that time to produce the most peak downforce a team produced at any given time compared to any other team. But did that translate to mclaren mercedes being quick in track? No NO. They infact finished 5th position in constructors. Mercedes F1 won the title  due to good aero efficient chassis. Having the most downforce does not necessarily mean you will be quick in track and this was evidence,

 

So please Eric Boullier dont try to get credit to yourself  and the aero team, when mclaren were almost close to getting Q3 in china and start pointing fingers at honda when the result was bad. because the  reality is that you just trying to save your job.. You very lucky Ron  blocked honda from supplying redbull, If that would have worked out, your job Eric will be on the line, Just compare Renault f1 speed with redbull F1, both running same engine but redbull just a superior chassis compare to Renault, and renault is infact slower than mclaren F1. this is the same case with mercedes f1 and manor f1. same engine  but mercedes just a superior aero efficient chassis.
And also Eric dont come and  tell the media that mclaren want to win tommorrow but honda want to win but not necessarily tommorrow, its a sign of a insecure selfish man scared that he will lose his job.
I sincerely hope mclaren and honda raise their game and hopefully we could see podium result soon and every mclaren fan can rejoice.

 

Do yourself a favor and look up 'The Dunning-Kruger' effect.

[Talisman]

This is what happens when people who try to discuss things or provide information just get carved up.

 

I've checked the Japanese websites Muramasa usually quotes and they don't have exclusive information from Hasegawa.  Its all official quotes you'd find on Autosport.  Thats for the last two races.

Meanwhile they did report that Honda and Dennis have had meetings regarding supplying a second team.  Honda have been approached by several teams and want to finalise a deal quite soon.  They are also feeling pressure from Todt/Bernie etc to supply more than one team.  Dennis is still vociferously opposed to it.

[Pierce89]

I believe the current engines do. The older normally aspirated engines used a pneumatic system to operate valves though.

Both old V8s and current PUS used a camshaft with pneumatic valve springs.

[blacky]

Honda have been approached by several teams and want to finalise a deal quite soon.  

 

Let me guess: teams with serious money problems who want the PU for free or even cash having Honda stickers on the car?

[ermo]

I've checked the Japanese websites Muramasa usually quotes and they don't have exclusive information from Hasegawa.  Its all official quotes you'd find on Autosport.  Thats for the last two races.

Meanwhile they did report that Honda and Dennis have had meetings regarding supplying a second team.  Honda have been approached by several teams and want to finalise a deal quite soon.  They are also feeling pressure from Todt/Bernie etc to supply more than one team.  Dennis is still vociferously opposed to it.

Of course he is.  Mostly because being "very much opposed to it" wouldn't do at all for a man of Dennis' verbal proclivity.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Meanwhile they did report that Honda and Dennis have had meetings regarding supplying a second team.  Honda have been approached by several teams and want to finalise a deal quite soon.  They are also feeling pressure from Todt/Bernie etc to supply more than one team.  Dennis is still vociferously opposed to it.

It is very interesting that Honda have been approached by several teams although It is very hard to believe.

 

IMO offering cheaper powerunit and transmission is the only way that can attract teams like Sauber and ForceIndia because they are struggling financially.

Edited by RYARLE, 21 April 2016 - 15:00.

[Alonsofan007]

ferrari is openly saying they are having reliability issues as they prioritized performance over it, i think honda should do the same now that it ran 2 races straight on alonso's car.

 

Even if the gain is just 0.5+s they will be comfortably in top 10 which is much better than running safely at 11 - 13 positions. Hopefully they will start doing from next PU upgrade where reliability upgrades are planned.

[damager21]

I've checked the Japanese websites Muramasa usually quotes and they don't have exclusive information from Hasegawa.  Its all official quotes you'd find on Autosport.  Thats for the last two races.

Meanwhile they did report that Honda and Dennis have had meetings regarding supplying a second team.  Honda have been approached by several teams and want to finalise a deal quite soon.  They are also feeling pressure from Todt/Bernie etc to supply more than one team.  Dennis is still vociferously opposed to it.

 

Could be Torro Rosso given that they will continue to get a year old engine from Ferrari. The other teams could be Sauber and Force India, if Honda was to offer them engine at a lower price

[alpes]

Not directly about the MP4-31 but:
http://en.f1i.com/ne...boundaries.html


The minimum tire pressures are measured when the car is at rest so naturally they're going to be different when in the race... but it's the latter that matters. So since some teams (ie probably not McLaren) have started working around the rules Pirelli decided to jack up the minimum pressures even more. Nice...

For me this is the first time I hear about this trick.

Well it might explain why McLaren was further back than expected in race trim, probably they are one of the teams together with Haas to be caught out completely unprepared by tyre pressure change from Pirelli.

Maybe it's good that it happened in China so they will start preparing to work around high tyre pressures

I would not be surprised at all if it was Red Bull the team with most advanced solution around tyre pressure and probably the ones that benefited the most from it. They have a very fined tuned chassis and normally need to chase improvements in unexplored areas

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

 

Could be Torro Rosso given that they will continue to get a year old engine from Ferrari. The other teams could be Sauber and Force India, if Honda was to offer them engine at a lower price

 

As far as I know, ToroRosso will get the latest Ferrari powerunit in 2017.

[MirNyet]

i had a trouble last time upload picture but with the help of RYARLE, i was able add the picture i edited. so i am going to repost the article with the image

 

 

Picture 2 from the Top you can see the mclaren running 3 protruding winglets on the side rear wing, and compare with the redbull rear, you will none of that. It was meant to add donwforce but is this efficient downforce or does this cause more drag resistance and reducing aero efficiency.
Mclaren is also seen running the monkey wing in china and the redbull did not, remember china has a long straight and rebull you can see are not running it as a result getting better aero efficiency and better speed on straight. all of rebull excellent downforce is from the rear wing and through the floor section. aero efficiency is shown clearly by redbull . I remember jenson Button talking to the media and saying something like Mclaren need to working on getting usable downforce bascially  indirectly implying mclaren are running draggy winglets.

 
Third picture we can see mclaren introducing a  beam  like wing , i did not see redbull running it, why are mclaren  running inefficient downforce and can cause a negative effect rather than positive. even with this downforce configuration mclaren seem to pretty good on the straights as we saw from qualifying.
 
In 2014 mclaren mercedes introduced the suspension blockers as shown above. They were reported at that time to produce the most peak downforce a team produced at any given time compared to any other team. But did that translate to mclaren mercedes being quick in track? No NO. They infact finished 5th position in constructors. Mercedes F1 won the title  due to good aero efficient chassis. Having the most downforce does not necessarily mean you will be quick in track and this was evidence,

 

So please Eric Boullier dont try to get credit to yourself  and the aero team, when mclaren were almost close to getting Q3 in china and start pointing fingers at honda when the result was bad. because the  reality is that you just trying to save your job.. You very lucky Ron  blocked honda from supplying redbull, If that would have worked out, your job Eric will be on the line, Just compare Renault f1 speed with redbull F1, both running same engine but redbull just a superior chassis compare to Renault, and renault is infact slower than mclaren F1. this is the same case with mercedes f1 and manor f1. same engine  but mercedes just a superior aero efficient chassis.
And also Eric dont come and  tell the media that mclaren want to win tommorrow but honda want to win but not necessarily tommorrow, its a sign of a insecure selfish man scared that he will lose his job.
I sincerely hope mclaren and honda raise their game and hopefully we could see podium result soon and every mclaren fan can rejoice.

 

What you are calling a beam wing is actually the suspension elements, widened to aid airflow around the rear of the car. Red Bull are the masters of this so much so that their elements are in fact larger and in places merged together to form even larger surface areas that on the McLaren. Red Bull for instance have far more bulkly front suspension elements than McLaren - is this factored into your appraisal?

Just point at detailing on the car and stating that any detail causes more drag is clownishly simplistic as no one here has any idea of what the flow is doing at those positions on the car. The car itself is a system, with different elements conditioning and guiding the air over and around the car. Using your method, the frontal area of the Red Bull (head on) is greater than the McLaren, the degree of undercut around the sidepods is greater on the McLaren than on the Red Bull. Have you factored this into your thinking? Red Bull are also running higher wing levels - again massive drag producing elements of the car?

Edited by MirNyet, 21 April 2016 - 21:00.

[BJHF1]

That's ones massive contradiction If I've ever seen one

lol nm I see a question mark was edited in for the last line

Edited by BJHF1, 22 April 2016 - 14:51.

[BJHF1]

Both old V8s and current PUS used a camshaft with pneumatic valve springs.

Ah ok, thanks for the correction. For whatever reason I was thinking the older NA engines used pneumatic actuators, while relying on no comshafts.

[nosecone]

The reason why the lower wishbone is that thick is that it encloses the driveshaft which would cause drag if it was exposed. I think they opted for a perfect airfoil shape that is thicker than having a wishbone and an not airfoil-shaped drive shaft exposed to the wind. However the upper wishbone seems to be as thin as possible if you look at it from the front

[MirNyet]

The reason why the lower wishbone is that thick is that it encloses the driveshaft which would cause drag if it was exposed. I think they opted for a perfect airfoil shape that is thicker than having a wishbone and an not airfoil-shaped drive shaft exposed to the wind. However the upper wishbone seems to be as thin as possible if you look at it from the front

 

Something Red Bull pioneered ironically.

[Lemans]

Something Red Bull pioneered ironically.

 

Wasn't it on the Williams FW-16 first? It was Newey, regardless.

[kissTheApex]

Has he left the forum for good?

I hope he is not badly affected by the earthquakes. 

 

On another note, I love how most everybody is an ultimate authority on all things formula 1 on these forums. Makes for a very entertaining reading. 

[rabbitleader]

With Renault suggesting a 0.5 second improvement with their new PU upgrade for Canada, McLaren Honda have a fight to become comfortable Q3 qualifiers.

[Joseki]

With Renault suggesting a 0.5 second improvement with their new PU upgrade for Canada, McLaren Honda have a fight to become comfortable Q3 qualifiers.

 

At the moment Red Bull is ahead and Renault is more than 0.5 second behind, so I don't think it change anything for McLaren. I think it's more about what Honda bring to Canada and what the customer Mercedes teams will get.

[blacky]

ALO is actually in Japan and it seems logical that he will make a factory visit. I am curious what he has to say next week in Sochi, maybe some hints what the plan is for engine upgrades.

[Quickshifter]

Williams are going behind, similarly force India. Torro Rosso will have no engine upgrades. If Mclaren are behind Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari regularly finishing in the points is possible. The first target should be to get at the front of the midfield Que. It is not going to be easy but that is what the primary target should be from where they are.

Edited by Quickshifter, 22 April 2016 - 12:24.

[MirNyet]

Wasn't it on the Williams FW-16 first? It was Newey, regardless.

 

Actually that rings a bell. Pretty sure however it wasn't done to the degree we are seeing on the cars lately, but I do think he covered the driveshaft yes.

[nosecone]

Something Red Bull pioneered ironically.

 
True that. McLaren seems to be very inconsistent on this gadget. The MP4-28 had an enclosed drive shaft. http://www.racecar-e...01/upmacx01.jpg
 
The following MP4-29 didn't feature it. Aswell as the MP4-30 https://www.bing.com...b9o0&ajaxhist=0
 
Actually the open driveshaft causes downforce because of its rotation:

source: http://www.helmholtz...-wm-balls-2673/

 

I will let our aero efficiency/beamwing experts explain whether a closed drive shaft shows that Macca doesn't give a **** on drag or not. I don't even know what the discussion is trying to show

Edited by nosecone, 22 April 2016 - 14:24.

[Treads]

Williams are going behind, similarly force India. Torro Rosso will have no engine upgrades. If Mclaren are behind Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari regularly finishing in the points is possible. The first target should be to get at the front of the midfield Que. It is not going to be easy but that is what the primary target should be from where they are.

I don't know, the team are starting in about 7th place and experience suggests they will end there. We have the bad situation that we are behind Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, toro Rosso and Williams in every race. That puts us 6th. Then we are behind force India and even haas in other races, depending on whether it is a good track for them. So on average we are 6th / 7th.

Now, to decisively out develop these guys will be very difficult and take a while. I do expect us to out develop the last two but that still leaves us 6th. Toro Rosso are handicapped by the engine not being upgraded so we can beat them. Williams? I doubt it. That leaves is 5th fastest and competing for the higher points-paying places only occasionally. We may well be 5th or even 4th fastest at the end of the year but I doubt we could be better than 6th in the championship. May even be lower than that.

All this is amplified that this car should be developed less than its predecessor as the team switch over the 2017. Now of course it will be advantageous to continue developing this machine to some degree, to help with next year, but I don't believe that means they shouldn't divert a vast majority of resources to next year.

So we should not expect as much forward momentum as maybe we in fact do expect.

[Vettelari]

Renault may seem like they are in the rear view mirror, but if they actually gain the rumored 0.5 from strictly the engine plus make some basic aero upgrades, the McLarens may very well have K-Mag to deal with in the latter half of the season while battling for the last of the points. I get the feeling that Enstone can make some large gains on their chassis side via a few minor (in scale) upgrades due to having so little time to get the car ready. Who knows. Just my personal opinion.

Edited by Vettelari, 23 April 2016 - 00:51.

[Treads]

Renault may seem like they are in the rear view mirror, but if they actually gain the rumored 0.5 from strictly the engine plus make some basic aero upgrades, the McLarens may very well have K-Mag to deal with in the latter half of the season while battling for the last of the points. I get the feeling that Enstone can make some large gains on their chassis side via a few minor (in scale) upgrades due to having so little time to get the car ready. Who knows. Just my personal opinion.

I can't agree, they are so far back. They were 1.1 behind in quali in China. 1.2 behind in Bahrain. They are just slow. And much of that is chassis. It's pretty much impossible to bridge that kind of gap within a season. Even if McLaren stood still and did no work, Renault might not catch them before the end of the year.

There are no easy wins in F1. They had plenty of time on the car, just a lack of resources. So the car didn't develop, same as Sauber. And they can't suddenly have an extra 100 Engineers working on the car overnight. They need time to hire them and for them to be up to speed. And wind tunnel time is restricted. They just fell behind on the development race, it's as plain as that. Anything 'simple' would already have been on the 2015 car.

Now, in race pace, McLaren are a bit slower than quali. But I would argue Mac have a bigger chance of sorting out the tyres and taking a big step forward than Renault do of developing their utterly miserably chassis into competitiveness anytime this year.

And don't forget, Honda should be making great strides in performance on the engine this year as well.

Edited by Treads, 23 April 2016 - 02:17.

[blacky]

It all depends on the rules for 2017. 

As soon as the 2017 rules are official, McLaren will switch the focus 100% on 2017. They know that there is nothing to win really this year, optimum looks like a P5 again in a crazy race, but that's not the target for a team like McLaren, so they will try to use their chance with new rules. FW, RW, floor, diffusor, etc. - everything seems to change a lot, so I guess the focus on this year is to finetune suspension settings (big problem now), or trying innovate thing on this side, things chassis-wise which can be transferred for 2017, power delivery, and in the first place the PU with token upgrades.

Edited by blacky, 23 April 2016 - 07:39.

[aljaxon]

Thinking about the impending new rules in 2017 and the fact that there was no way in hell Honda would become competitive this year and add to that the fact that both drivers might not be at McLaren or even in f1 next year, you have to question why McLaren are throwing so much money at them as two rookies could have done the same job especially with everything starting from scratch with the new rules next year

[FrontWing]

Thinking about the impending new rules in 2017 and the fact that there was no way in hell Honda would become competitive this year and add to that the fact that both drivers might not be at McLaren or even in f1 next year, you have to question why McLaren are throwing so much money at them as two rookies could have done the same job especially with everything starting from scratch with the new rules next year

Their driver line up is the only thing keeping McLaren relevant at the moment.

[krumpli12]

Their driver line up is the only thing keeping McLaren relevant at the moment.

 

Exactly. Just imagine the same results with, for example, Vandoorne and de Vries, there wouldn't be any sponsors left by the end of the year. McLaren will do everything to keep at least one of their current drivers, but preferably both of them. And not just for next year.

[Quickshifter]

Alonso is talked about as much as he was when was at Ferrari. top drivers help in bringing a certain sort of aura to any team they race for.  Button similarly is someone immensely loved by the sponsors, is a model pro and a world champion. Signing two top drivers shows that the team is still a top one aiming to do big things.  Compared to Renault who with no disrespect to their drivers is hardly talked about despite this being the return of a top manufacturer like Renault in works team capacity.

 

Coming to this season. Honda has looked reliable and relatively more competitive when compared to last year but the first batch of car and engine upgrades will dictate how the season pans out. Honda have by their own admission have concentrated on reliability and internal combustion engine performance upgrade is at their top of the wish list. How much they can extract from their remaining 14 tokens is going to be interesting to watch and something exciting to look forward to.

 

Barcelona will be the true starting point of the season as i have been saying all along. They have to sort out the tire wear issues. We can only speculate as to why the car is chewing up it's tires so quickly but i am sure Mclaren will be working hard behind the scenes getting on top of the the issue as i type.

 

The pit stops have quickened. The team is functioning much more smoothly. I think the base is there it will all depend on first batch of upgrades from Honda.

Edited by Quickshifter, 23 April 2016 - 09:01.

[McLobby]

I agree with all that  but I don't think Alonso signed for the team knowing he will be out of the points for at least 2 years....

 

Honda's major failure debut wasn't in the plans for McLaren and no one expected them to be that far behind,

 

Alonso didn't like the fact that the team looked like amauters...

 

If he knew all this he would never had signed...

 

This year isn't much better, and I can't see why you think the team will be competitive in 2017?

PUs will be the same.... that means Honda will still be behind Merc and Ferrari even with free development....

so what make you believe that they have a magic chassis solution for next year, (even with rule changes) that will make them competitive?

is it pure speculation or just wishful thinking?

[Quickshifter]

Alonso's power unit has completed two full race weekends without a hiccup.  Compare it to what the situation was last year. Honda have laid a solid base and did not chase ICE performance as they wanted to sort out deployment and reliability first and foremost. Honda do not have to blow tokens sorting out issues like they did last year. This year the tokens will be massively influential especially as Honda by their admission are chasing top end performance now that they have the deployment and reliability sorted and they have the tokens to achieve the same. The package looks better integrated this season. How big a jump Mclaren and Honda will be based on what Honda's first batch of token upgrades deliver and what Mclaren's first major aero upgrade delivers for Spain.

Edited by Quickshifter, 23 April 2016 - 15:24.

[Quickshifter]

[Bliman]

Exactly. Just imagine the same results with, for example, Vandoorne and de Vries, there wouldn't be any sponsors left by the end of the year. McLaren will do everything to keep at least one of their current drivers, but preferably both of them. And not just for next year.

I certainly hope they don't keep the same drivers. I think Vandoorne had to be in the seat Button now drives this year already. And looking at his first grand prix (where he had to learn all the procedures on the plane) and still beat Button, if this doesn't open the eyes at Mclaren then I hope Vandoorne seeks a better place.

I always hear that it is crucial for them that they had Button and Alonso for experience. But when someone points out that the car is still not good it is Honda to blame and not the drivers. You can only support one position.

And if the driver can't do much in developing the car then where does the experience part come in ?

Button is a good driver but he isn't the future Vandoorne is. So Mclaren has held Vandoorne back already if they keep Button then they show to me why they don't go forward , and that's because they simply make decisions that don't make sense.

[oetzi]

Their driver line up is the only thing keeping McLaren relevant at the moment.

Well, that and the fact they're leading the proposal for the new rules to give them a much needed leg up.

[autof1fan]

last year mclaren drivers were saying how hard its to get heat into tyres due to running less downforce, but this year the chassis is eating the tyres up.   guess, they went extreme with downforce levels,. Not good, first mclaren have sort out their suspension and aero before they can start to getting consistent points.

Edited by autof1fan, 24 April 2016 - 00:04.

[Treads]

I certainly hope they don't keep the same drivers. I think Vandoorne had to be in the seat Button now drives this year already. And looking at his first grand prix (where he had to learn all the procedures on the plane) and still beat Button, if this doesn't open the eyes at Mclaren then I hope Vandoorne seeks a better place.

Button was in front of Stoffel when his car broke down. I think it is a bit much to say he beat Button.

[blacky]

last year mclaren drivers were saying how hard its to get heat into tyres due to running less downforce, but this year the chassis is eating the tyres up.   guess, they went extreme with downforce levels,. Not good, first mclaren have sort out their suspension and aero before they can start to getting consistent points.

 

Just give it up, you are and idiot. Really.

Neither they drive with a high downforce setup nor is a low downforce set up better for tyre wear in the race.

 

 

Furthermore there is no comparison possible to last year so far regarding the tyre warming issue. In the first 3 races they were able to go for SS in quali instead of S in 2015. For the first time we will see in Sochi the same quali tyre like last year (SS).

Edited by blacky, 24 April 2016 - 07:26.

[chhatra]

Russia was where Button described the deployment issue as scary last year.

It will be a good comparison, as there is no softer option this year and Russia was at the end of the season last year once all the PU updates and most of the chassis updates had been applied.