25 replies to this topic

[pRy]

I can't see a thread on this?

 

https://www.formula1...-interview.html

 

RD: I shook hands with Gilles [Villeneuve] in early 1982, for him to drive for McLaren the following year. I would love to have had Gilles driving for us. I really rated him. He was a fantastic, and fantastically committed, driver. But of course he was killed in qualifying at Zolder that year: a big loss to our sport and a big loss to McLaren.

 

Equally, at Monaco the following decade, when he was already driving for Ferrari, Michael [Schumacher] and I agreed for him to drive for McLaren. Our meeting took place not during the Grand Prix weekend; no, we met secretly at a Monaco hotel at another time. But in the end it did not work out because his management insisted on controlling his image rights – they basically wanted to retain them all, plus get paid a lot of money of course. That was disappointing. I think Mika and Michael would have been a truly fabulous driver line-up. 

 

Now of course it's probably the case that there are many many almost-deals in F1 where drivers agree to move but the contract is never signed due to disagreements over this and that... and we have to take Ron's word for it of course. But it's a fascinating "what if". Schumacher and Hakkinen in the same team would have been quite something.. although we'd have missed their rivalry which was one of the best in recent times and one of the most respectful too. 

 

And Gilles also mentioned in the same interview as agreeing to drive for McLaren in 1983 before he was killed.

Edited by pRy, 30 May 2016 - 10:16.

[RedBaron]

This isn't really anything new (not a dig at your topic pRy) seeing as Schumacher already revealed this himself years ago, it's just a comment Dennis made and now has been turned into a story.

 

Schumacher in 2006:

 

Michael Schumacher has revealed that McLaren boss Ron Dennis was the stumbling block in him ever racing for Mercedes-Benz in Formula One.

 

The German was brought into F1 by the Stuttgart-based car manufacturer, having raced for them in sportscars, and he was continually surrounded by speculation that he could drive for them in Grands Prix.

 

That partnership never happened, and Schumacher has revealed that a difference of opinions with Dennis was the root cause of that failure. Without Dennis, he claims, he would almost certainly have driven for Mercedes-Benz.

 

"I actually had several discussions and meetings with McLaren-Mercedes, for example at Monte Carlo in 1995," said Schumacher in an interview with German newspaper Suddeutsche Zeitung on Friday. "But I noticed that we really did not fit each other."

 

When asked whether it was McLaren or Mercedes that was the source of his concern, Schumacher said: "McLaren, or speaking honestly, McLaren boss Ron Dennis. With Mercedes everything ran very well and we would surely have found a way...Ron Dennis had another view of how an F1 team was to function."

 

Schumacher denied that the difference of opinion was over his desire to be a clear number one in the team.

 

"I never demanded it, neither contractually nor verbally, in my entire career," he said. "My view is: at the season start both drivers receive the same material and are equal in every regard.

 

"But as soon as it becomes clear that one driver is faster than the other then the team must support him."

 

Here was the initial invite...

 

Edited by RedBaron, 30 May 2016 - 10:22.

[wj_gibson]

I'm more interested in the timing of the Villeneuve hand-shake - especially whether before or after Imola, as the common interpretation seems to be that Villeneuve never entertained any thought of leaving Ferrari prior to the San Marino GP. Total dedication to Ferrari is a core part of Villeneuve mythology, so it's interesting to think that he may have had a slightly more calculating head on his shoulders than commonly assumed.

[pRy]

Ah I wasn't aware it was already revealed and in some detail by MS himself. 

[PlatenGlass]

Schumacher and Hakkinen in the same team would have been quite something.. although we'd have missed their rivalry which was one of the best in recent times and one of the most respectful too.

No we wouldn't. It would have just been in the same team.

[SophieB]

Moved to TNF after discussion with Vitesse2.

[F1matt]

I remember the rumours of Michael Schumacher joining McLaren and it never sounded like a good fit, Mika Hakkinen was Ron's chosen one, probably due to his awful crash at Adelaide and at the time David Coulthard was keeping him honest, they clearly had a good working relationship and the whole team looked a harmonious place. I always assumed Willy Weber was talking to McLaren to get more money out of Ferrari for Michael or using it as a kick up the backside for the Ferrari technical team. 

[Michael Ferner]

As a McLaren fan, I'm glad it never happened...

(Senna was bad enough to endure)

[kayemod]

As a McLaren fan, I'm glad it never happened...

(Senna was bad enough to endure)

 

Well said Michael, you clearly have an almost English sense of fair play and decent behaviour.

 

You don't play cricket and drink warm beer do you?

[JacnGille]

As a McLaren fan, I'm glad it never happened...

(Senna was bad enough to endure)

That makes two of us.

[Michael Ferner]

You don't play cricket and drink warm beer do you?

It's still Sauerkraut and a cold & blond one for me!!

[Mallory Dan]

What about the beer though, Michael....!

[kayemod]

What about the beer though, Michael....!

 

Bitte ein Bit!

 

Michael's homebrew.

[Michael Ferner]

What about the beer though, Michael....!

Slow beer and fast... cars

[Ross Stonefeld]

As a McLaren fan, I'm glad it never happened...

(Senna was bad enough to endure)

And now you have Alonso drama to endure

[E1pix]

:eek:It's still Sauerkraut and a cold & blond one for me!!

Is that a reference to our next President? ;-)

[kayemod]

Is that a reference to our next President? ;-)

 

On a diet of beer and pickled cabbage, he won't need any help to trump.

 

(If ee baint be from these here parts, look up northern English colloquialisms)

[E1pix]

Good one, Rob. :-)

[garoidb]

And now you have Alonso drama to endure

 

Why can't they all be more like good old Nigel?

[Charlieman]

Normally, one starts at the beginning.

 

"But in the end it did not work out because his management insisted on controlling his image rights – they basically wanted to retain them all, plus get paid a lot of money of course."

 

https://www.formula1...-interview.html

 

Ron Dennis' argument is awkward. Schumacher's performance rights -- photos and video stuff recorded at an F1 race -- was already beyond Schumacher's control. So Dennis and Michael couldn't make a deal about stroking kittens for a Schumacher family video? Or Michael felt that he couldn't walk around the McLaren museum without being paid? For the firm, like. What a pair of fools.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Sounds like he wanted control over endorsements, personal sponsorships(ie suit sleeves), and merchandise. McLaren are the most controlling team for that. The team has sponsors, you do not. And Schumacher, and particularly in that time period, was very valuable on that front. You probably wouldn't have Dekra caps at McLaren unless they became a team sponsor.

[F1matt]

Sounds like he wanted control over endorsements, personal sponsorships(ie suit sleeves), and merchandise. McLaren are the most controlling team for that. The team has sponsors, you do not. And Schumacher, and particularly in that time period, was very valuable on that front. You probably wouldn't have Dekra caps at McLaren unless they became a team sponsor.

 

 

Unless you were Ayrton Senna of course.

[kayemod]

Unless you were Ayrton Senna of course.

 

True, Senna agreed to a deal like that, no personal race suit advertising, and turned up with an unauthorised Banco Nacional advert across his chest. He just ignored anything he didn't like in the contract he'd signed, wonder what Ron's reaction was? He was so keen to hook Senna that he probably ignored it, as those adverts stayed.

[F1matt]

True, Senna agreed to a deal like that, no personal race suit advertising, and turned up with an unauthorised Banco Nacional advert across his chest. He just ignored anything he didn't like in the contract he'd signed, wonder what Ron's reaction was? He was so keen to hook Senna that he probably ignored it, as those adverts stayed.

 

 

I think Senna was his favourite child, he could get away with most things in the team. 

[Michael Ferner]

On a diet of beer and pickled cabbage, he won't need any help to trump.
 
(If ee baint be from these here parts, look up northern English colloquialisms)

I think I can guess... playing the "trumpet" like one of Terry Gilliam's MP interlude figures?

[Mohican]

McLaren deals that never happened ? Nobody mentions Ronnie Peterson signing to drive for McLaren in 1979 ?

 

Of course, as it turned out the 1979-80 McLarens were hopeless so he would have been back to his situation with Lotus in 1975 or Tyrrell in 1977 - at that stage probably a career-ending event.

Still, imagine Ronnie and Gilles in the McLaren-TAG/Porsches of 1984 (when Ronnie would have been 40, and surely still up for winning)...