1624 replies to this topic

[Riverside]

People comparing this to Canada - stewards don't often give penalties for first lap incidents. This is extremely well documented and consistent over the last 5-6 years.

 

These are different situations too. The #44 car was ahead both times into the corner, attacking and defending.  

 

 That's incorrect - Rosberg was slightly ahead and Hamilton was not on the racing line in Montreal because he was squeezing Rosberg rather than slotting in behind Vettel.    

[xtremeclock]

 

 

If you watch the video carefully the yellow flag (sector 2) came before "the incident".

[f1paul]

 the last lap of the first lap...............

 

Good England!

[f1paul]

Over 500 posts in 3hrs. Not bad

[pRy]

It's difficult to explain, I watch a lot of onboards and can see car handlings. If you look at this gif (https://gyazo.com/51...4cdd558e35f70b6), you can see that he already was understeering some, not so much that he would have missed the corner and still leave a car's width, because his deceleration was saving him, but I was predicting that any more lock and it would have been too much. It's a black art and it's merely my prediction, but one I'm rather confident in. Which I realise is worth as much as a chocolate teapot on an anonymous web forum, but there you go.

 

But you accept he's only in that position because he decided to turn in later knowing his team mate was along side him and looking like passing him... right? I mean that late turn in has nothing to do with handling. He's not locking up his brakes. He's gone in at a correct speed to make the corner.. gone past the normal turn in point and waited as long as possible before turning his wheel and still aiming to make the corner. That's intentional. And if that then results in a collision then it becomes an issue for the stewards. Had they collided and Nico argued he was on his normal line and making normal racing progress when they touched.. then it's a different matter. But Nico is going to struggle to explain why he has taking a tour of the local countryside in that corner at that moment in time based on the video evidence. 

 

I mean it's not even as if Lewis tried to put his car into a position that isn't normal and pass around the outside of a corner you never pass in. He'd given up the pass and was just turning into the corner expecting Nico to be in front of him a little up the road and hoping for a good tow. And then whack.. Nico hits him. Because Nico intentionally took a really wide line. We'll see if the stewards feel that caused an avoidable incident.

[f1fastestlap]

Good England!

 

Hehe

"The last lap or the first lap"

[wookles]

 

 

If you watch the video carefully the yellow flag (sector 2) came before "the incident".

 

 

Why are people still talking about the non-existent flag violation?

Edited by wookles, 03 July 2016 - 16:49.

[BuddyHolly]

My opinion is they both could have avoided the collision and therefore I blame them both.  I just want to see these guys fighting wheel to wheel without silly contact.

[TheManAlive]

 

 

If you watch the video carefully the yellow flag (sector 2) came before "the incident".

 

At which point Lewis was actually ahead. So if we were to be that technical (and I am in no way saying that this should be the case), nico attempted to overtake Lewis into Turn 2 under yellows and caused a crash.

 

Of course, in reality it was a yellow further down the track and not actually impacting these cars at all.

[Szoelloe]

Montoya having out braked himself was ahead of Schumacher, so Schumacher had clear sight of him as well as the trajectory of the Willams.

 

 

Yet still you are sticking to this BS about the blind spot. Rosberg is a prick. He had a right to block, but what he did was push LH straight off the track. I don't know if it was a preconceived move, or he just panicked, but in the end he was a giant prick. But saying that LH did not see he was there when he turned the steering wheel is wrong.

[Casey]

Nobody's fault there , his steering wheel was obstructed by frustration !

[Clrnc]

Can people stop feeding the troll? You can see that he isn't serious and is just winding people up. I refuse to believe he is that dumb so he must be just trolling. 

 

Anyway for this move, Rosberg got his just deserts. Hamilton did it to be him before a few times, he did it back a few times, its petty, its childish, its dirty and its wrong but this is what the game is about. Afterall people only care about winning. 

[f1paul]

 Rosberg is a prick. 

 

Bit harsh 

[Clrnc]

Can people stop feeding the troll? You can see that he isn't serious and is just winding people up. I refuse to believe he is that dumb so he must be just trolling. 

 

Anyway for this move, Rosberg got his just deserts. Hamilton did it to be him before a few times, he did it back a few times, its petty, its childish, its dirty and its wrong but this is what the game is about. Afterall people only care about winning. 

[JavierDeVivre]

But you accept he's only in that position because he decided to turn in later knowing his team mate was along side him and looking like passing him... right? I mean that late turn in has nothing to do with handling. He's not locking up his brakes. He's gone in at a correct speed to make the corner.. gone past the normal turn in point and waited as long as possible before turning his wheel and still aiming to make the corner. That's intentional. And if that then results in a collision then it becomes an issue for the stewards. Had they collided and Nico argued he was on his normal line and making normal racing progress when they touched.. then it's a different matter. But Nico is going to struggle to explain why he has taking a tour of the local countryside in that corner at that moment in time based on the video evidence. 

 

I mean it's not even as if Lewis tried to put his car into a position that isn't normal and pass around the outside of a corner you never pass in. He'd given up the pass and was just turning into the corner expecting Nico to be in front of him a little up the road and hoping for a good tow. And then whack.. Nico hits him. Because Nico intentionally took a really wide line. We'll see if the stewards feel that caused an avoidable incident.

Well, Spielberg is rather picturesque.

[OO7]

I find it annoying that on a circuit with long straights and the car behind being significantly faster, it required the leading car to make a mistake (or have a problem) for the chaser to have a chance at passing.  This is why in my opinion the DRS zones are too short.

[Szoelloe]

Both of them not to be trusted....

 

You don't say....

[Marklar]

Sky Italy reports a 10 seconds penalty (doesnt changes anything on the result) and a reprimand (for driving with the broken wing)

 

Edit: for Rosberg of course

 

https://twitter.com/...646332013506560

Edited by Marklar, 03 July 2016 - 16:54.

[Jazza]

At which point Lewis was actually ahead. So if we were to be that technical (and I am in no way saying that this should be the case), nico attempted to overtake Lewis into Turn 2 under yellows and caused a crash.

Of course, in reality it was a yellow further down the track and not actually impacting these cars at all.

The yellows are for turn 3. The incident was in turn 2.

The reason people bring this up is because after the incident in turn 2, Rosberg continued ahead of Lewis until Lewis passed him in turn 3 where the yellows were.

There were no yellows for turn 2 where the contact happened, so whoever was ahead at turn 2 doesn't matter.

[sportyskells]

i wonder how much longer for FIA to make up its mind on the matter with the channel 4 program due to start without an update on the matter

[Treads]

Still not comparable to the frustration Rosberg fans have been going through the last 2 years.

What frustration? That their driver is a chunk slower than Lewis?

[OO7]

My opinion is they both could have avoided the collision and therefore I blame them both.  I just want to see these guys fighting wheel to wheel without silly contact.

In nearly all circumstances of wheel to wheel racing where contact ensues, both drivers could have avoided it if either or both acquiesced.

[f1paul]

Can people stop feeding the troll? You can see that he isn't serious and is just winding people up. I refuse to believe he is that dumb so he must be just trolling. 

 

 

Who are you talking about, use names

[A3]

Sky Italy reports a 10 seconds penalty (doesnt changes anything on the result) and a reprimand (for driving with the broken wing)

 

Edit: for Rosberg of course

 

https://twitter.com/...646332013506560

weak

[pRy]

Sky Italy reports a 10 seconds penalty (doesnt changes anything on the result) and a reprimand (for driving with the broken wing)

 

Edit: for Rosberg of course

 

https://twitter.com/...646332013506560

 

Fits with the amount of time they've spent on it. The more time they spend the less severe the penalty usually is. I swear they must sit around eating the paddock club left overs and drinking champagne. Eventually someone remembers they've not put out the outcome of the investigation three hours later.

[Knowlesy]

But Canada! But USA 2015! But... but...

[OO7]

Fits with the amount of time they've spent on it. The more time they spend the less severe the penalty usually is. I swear they must sit around eating the paddock club left overs and drinking champagne. Eventually someone remembers they've not put out the outcome of the investigation three hours later.

It would be a way of giving a penalty without actually giving one.

[kedia990]

I find it annoying that on a circuit with long straights and the car behind being significantly faster, it required the leading car to make a mistake (or have a problem) for the chaser to have a chance at passing.  This is why in my opinion the DRS zones are too short.

 

Lewis was faster, but not significantly faster. They are after all driving the same car and Rosberg in fact was on SS tyres (compared to Hamilton's S) - the condition of the SS towards the end being debatable of course.

[Dr. Austin]

......... its petty, its childish, its dirty and its wrong but this is what the game is about. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I want the pinnacle of motorsports to be better than that.

[TomNokoe]

Sky Italy reports a 10 seconds penalty (doesnt changes anything on the result) and a reprimand (for driving with the broken wing)

Edit: for Rosberg of course

https://twitter.com/...646332013506560

pathetic, a meaningless time penalty

[jestaudio]

Utter cop out, along with Toto trying to spin it and treating F1 fans like chumps,

[myattitude]

Difference in turn in:

I just saw this. That just shows Hamilton turning into Rosberg though, and Rosberg not yet willing to give him more room that is required. Again, he's not required to put on the lock Lewis had, he only required to leave him a car's width, nothing more.

 

After my 14 years of racing (albeit on dirt/gravel mostly with some tarmac) Rosberg would have ended up all 4 wheels off the track without going full lock, he reacted and was not really trying to turn into the corner until a collision was already happening.  This I do not think was malicious but an error in judgement by Rosberg.

But watch his deceleration rate was saving the turn in. Remember it's a very slow corner (about 60-70 degrees) so you can take pretty sharp angles at slow speeds.

 

So... Rosberg was going to do this?

 

No. look at his hands:

 

OK, I drive a lot on the track (not racing, just track days in a Caterham) and can feel when a car is understeering easily, I can even feel when its nearing the edge of adhesion. But I certainly cant tell from a camera view when a car is not yet understeering but may at some point in the future. Credit if you can, but you cant really ask others to rely on that intuition.

 

All we can really go on is the evidence from the oboards we can see and that shows there was no understeer and that when he did turn, the car turned fine. 

The video shows me that his lock vis-a-vis turn in angle was giving smaller returns than is ideal, if you look at his trajectory. His deceleration would have caused the tyres to grip a half second later. There is an extreme visual example of understeer on YouTube which I'll try to find for you.

 

Based on this gif, it seems Hamilton's car was about 1,5m ahead of Rosbergs car.

 

When Hamilton start to take the corner, Rosberg still drive straight, so since that point he cant do anything to avoid the crash.

 

When Hamilton start to turn his steering wheel, it was an "alea iacta est" situation.

Yes he was still straight, but he was decelerating. The reason he couldn't avoid the crash is because Hamilton turned into him before Rosberg was required or ready to do so.

[Seanspeed]

Rosberg steering like he did in Monaco 2014 Q3, waited until the last opportunity to try and turn right, it's clear he wanted to force Hamilton off the track and maintain his position.

This has been allowed time and time again these past few seasons, so it's hard to blame him for trying it again.  

 

Running people off the track has become a legitimate tactic that the stewards never say anything about.  It is Lewis and Nico's favorite way to defend. 

[OO7]

Bingo. That means that Lewis's move wasn't available to him. He should have hung back more and slowed down more before turning for a possible swicth back, which he had plenty of required room to do:

 

My guess is that had Hamilton hung back more, Rosberg would have simply delayed his turn in point further, resulting essentially in the same outcome.  His intention was to run Lewis wide/off circuit.

[Lada Lover]

Can Mercedes trade driver contracts with Manor?

[FastnLoud]

Nico keeps his position and gets a 10 second penalty

[Nigol]

Sky Italy reports a 10 seconds penalty (doesnt changes anything on the result) and a reprimand (for driving with the broken wing)

 

Edit: for Rosberg of course

 

https://twitter.com/...646332013506560

 

So yeah, this is what we were waiting for the past 3 hours? A meaningless penalty and a reprimand?

[SirVanhan]

Any other driver would have gotten at least a 10 place penalty for the next race.

[Peter Perfect]

My guess is that had Hamilton hung back more, Rosberg would have simply delayed his turn in point further, resulting essentially in the same outcome.  His intention was to run Lewis wide/off circuit.

 

True. But isn't that allowed in modern f1?

[Knowlesy]

Can we quit posting meaningless stills please?

[Marklar]

Now confirmed

 

Formula 1Verified account‏@F1

Rosberg given a 10s penalty & 2 penalty points for last-lap incident. #AustrianGP result does not change. More soon

[JonnyJ]

Bit of a weak penalty but whatever, Nico's poor driving cost him 13 points and gained Lewis 7. I'll take the 20 point swing as punishment enough.

 

Not to mention he'll have to accept it was his fault now and so will Merc, so another psychological hit.

[Mercstar]

Formula 1 ‏@F1  54s54 seconds ago

Rosberg given a 10s penalty & 2 penalty points for last-lap incident. #AustrianGP result does not change.

 

Utter nonsense

[timmy bolt]

Nico keeps his position and gets a 10 second penalty

If true - amazingly weak. Either Nico is innocent and receive nothing or he is guilty and should be hit with something meaningful. Such a cop out.

[Lada Lover]

The drivers should be forced to wear those FIFA 'RESPECT' jerseys.

[GoldenColt]

LOL.

 

At least it's more than nothing, unlike all the other times.

[TheRacingElf]

Causing a collision is always a drive-thru penalty or when given after the race a 25-second time penalty. How can they explain it's only 10-seconds in this case? Pathetic.

[MikeV1987]

Didn't expect much of a penalty tbh, he only screwed himself over in the end.

[OO7]

Yet still you are sticking to this BS about the blind spot. Rosberg is a prick. He had a right to block, but what he did was push LH straight off the track. I don't know if it was a preconceived move, or he just panicked, but in the end he was a giant prick. But saying that LH did not see he was there when he turned the steering wheel is wrong.

I don't recall mentioning anything about a blind spot.  I said Schumacher had clear sight of the Williams as well as its trajectory.  With the latter Schumacher could predict the path of the Williams, Lewis on the other had couldn't do this with Nico as the path of Nico's Mercedes was being completely dictated by the driver (he was still in full control unlike Montoya).

[Montie]

As far as I could see, Hamilton tried pretty hard. Where else was he supposed to go?

I still see space on the outside and further into the turn, it would be a tight turn for him, but that is what Rosberg wanted him to do.