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The Monza Race of Two Worlds 1957 & 1958


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#1 Graham Clayton

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 02:42

Could someone post some details about the unusual
meetings held at Monza in 1957 and 1958, which were
an attempt to have European F1 and Indy roadster cars
competing against each other?

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 04:34

Have you tried 'search', Graham?

Some of the subjects you're posting about have been covered previously... I'm sure this one has.

#3 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 04:42

Graham,

As I remember it, the event was poorly supported by the European racing community. Ferrari built a couple of cars (For 58, IIRC), There was one of the older Indy Ferraris, Maserati built a car for Stirling Moss and The Maestro was scheduled to drive an honest to goodness Indy Roadster. I said was because I think the car pooped out.

The other "major, entries consisted of three Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar D-Types for 1957. In 1958 Ecurie Ecosse returned with a pair of D-Types, one driven by Masten Gregory and an open wheel single seater Lister Jaguar driven by Jack Fairman.

Oh yeah, they ran anticlockwise to suit the Indy Roadster's design.

Gil



#4 quintin cloud

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 06:18

Graham you try 3 sites with info about the Race of 2 worlds

http://www.formula1results.com in the 1958 world championship tables
http://8w.forix.com in there special reports section
and
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/

:up: :drunk:

#5 Darren Galpin

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 06:59

The Race of Two Worlds

In 1954, a new steeper banking was constructed at Monza and was used in the 1955 Italian Grand Prix, being merged with the existing circuit to provide a 6.214 mile (9.822 km) circuit, the cars running a lap of the road circuit before completing a lap of the oval. The course was re-used for the 1956 Grand Prix, and the similarity of the Monza oval to that of Indianapolis was not lost on Giuseppe Bacciagaluppi, president of the Automobile Club of Milan. Bacciagaluppi invited Duane Carter, the competitions director of the United States Automobile Club, to watch the race, and together they fleshed out the idea for a joint Formula 1/Championship car race, The Race of Two Worlds, where the best of Grand Prix racing would race the best of Champ Cars.


The Beginnings
The race would use the banked track only, and was scheduled for June 1957. Preparations for the American drivers was done by Pat O'Connor in April of 1957, who tested a 5.5 litre V8 Chrysler test car for Firestone (instead of the traditional four cylinder Offenhauser unit), managing 226 miles at an average of 163.4mph, with a best lap faster than 170mph - this compared to O'Connor's Indianapolis 500 pole position speed of 144mph! Once the Indianapolis race was completed, ten front engined roadsters were transported from New York to Genoa on the ship Independence, whereupon the were taken to Monza on trucks supplied by Alfa Romeo. The drivers and mechanics followed on behind in an old DC-3, taking some 26 hours to arrive.

The competition though fizzled out, as the Formula 1 drivers didn't want to compete. They had no existing cars capable of racing with the championship cars on the banking, and the roadsters wouldn't be much good on a road course. Having already experienced the banking, the drivers were also concerned about the track. It was very bumpy, and the suspension travel of the cars was completely used up as their cars were pressed into the track. Coupled with the high speeds involved, most of the drivers boycotted the event, with only 3 Jaguar D-Types from Ecurie Ecosse entering, these cars having finished 1-2 in the previous weekend's Le Mans 24 Hrs. The formula 1 drivers worries about speed were well founded, as Tony Bettenhausen took pole position for the race at an average speed of 177mph.

There was an amusing incident during practice. Jimmy Bryan, in his Dean Van Lines Special, had 10 $10 bills blow out of the top pocket of his overalls. Being somewhat upset at this, he stopped his car at the foot of the banking, and climbed to the stop. Given the steepness of the banking, this was quite a feat, and he managed to get most of his money back too.

The American cars only had two speed gearboxes, whereas the Jaguars had four-speed units, and the Jaguar drivers used this to great effect at the rolling start, shooting from the back of the grid to the front and leading the first lap by some 300 yards. This wasn't to last for long though, and the USAC drivers soon overtook. However, there was prize money for the first lap leader, and this went to Jack Fairman. Jimmy Bryan won this 63 lap heat, and the second heat, but finished second to Troy Ruttman in the third, and thereby clinched the overall race win at an average of 160.1mph.

The 1958 Race
29 June 1958 - Monza 500

Entrants



No Driver Entrant Car Engine size (cc)
1 Jimmy Bryan George Salih Belond-AP Special 4200
2 Jack Fairman Ecurie Ecosse Lister Jaguar D-Type 3800
4 Masten Gregory Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar D-Type 3442
5 Jim Rathmann John Zink Zink Leader Card Special 4200
6 Ivor Bueb Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar D-Type 3800
8 Rodger Ward Roger Walcott Wolcott Fuel Injection Special 4200
9 Bob Veith Robert M Bowes Bowes Seal Fast Special 4200
10 Stirling Moss Scuderia Eldorado Eldorado-Italia 4190
12 Mike Hawthorn Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari 4023
14 Luigi Musso Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari 2962
16 Harry Schell Luigi Chinetti Ferrari-Chinetti 2962
24 Jimmy Reece Fred Sommer Hoyt Machine Special 4200
26 Don Freeland Bob Estes Bob Estes Special 4200
29 Juan Manuel Fangio AE Dean Dean Van Lines Special 4200
35 Eddie J Sachs Jr Jim Robbins Jim Robbins Special 4200
49 Ray Crawford Ray Crawford Maguire Mirror Glaze Special 4200
55 Maurice Trintignant Sclavi Inc Sclavi and Amos Special 4200
75 Johnny Thomson Racing Associates D-A Lubricant Special 4200
98 Troy Ruttman JC Agajanian Agajanian Special 4200


The Cars
The American cars all used the 4.2 litre, 4-cylinder double-overhead cam Offenhauser unit, usually offset to the left of the chassis in order to counteract the centrifugal force generated in the long left hand bends. The cars had beam axles at the front and rear, with torsion bars for suspension. Most used twin Monroe telescopic dampers on each corner in order to try an minimise the problems of the year before. The cars had two-speed gearboxes, and required push starts, and used Firestone tyres on Halibrand light-alloy wheels, the normal wire wheels used in Europe being unable to withstand the forces involved, as evidenced by Ascari at Indianapolis in 1952, when the wheel of his Ferrari collapsed.
Of the three Jaguars, two were 3.8 litre-engined D-types, and one was the 3442cc car which was used in the previous year's race. Jack Fairman raced a Lister-framed version, which had a single seater frame. However, this resulted in a 10mph drop in maximum speed as the bodywork of the standard D-type was of aerodynamic advantage.

Ferrari built a brand new V12 4.2-litre car for the race, with a quoted power output of just under 400bhp. The car had coil springs and a wishbone at the front, with a transverse leaf spring and de Dion axle at the rear. Ferrari still used wire wheels for this race, the wheels being made by Borrani. Although fitted with a five-speed gearbox, two of the gears were removed for the race.

The second factory Ferrari was a specially built frame using a 2880cc V6 Dino 296 sportscar engine. Coil springs were used all round, with a front wishbone and rear de Dion axle. The springs were completely encased in rubber in order to obtain the desired spring rate. Although it arrived at the circuit fitted with Englebert tyres, it qualified on Firestones.

The third Ferrari, that of Harry Schell, was entered by the North American Racing Team. This was an old GP car using an unsupercharged 4.2 litre V12 engine, and was modified by Chinetti. Driven in hill climbs by Carroll Shelby, the car had never been raced, although it did achieve 176mph during a Daytona Speed Week. It used a rear transverse leaf spring below a de Dion axle at the rear, and wishbones and transverse leaf springs at the front.

The Stirling Moss entry was the Eldorado-Maserati, gaudily painted white with a one-toothed cowboy on the side. The engine was a 4.2 litre V8 derived from a Maserati sportscar unit, and during practice the fuel injection was replaced by four twin-choke carburettors. The engine was offset to the left, with the transmission passing to the left of the drivers seat. Fuel was carried in the tail and to the left of the cockpit. It also had a two-speed gearbox, front wishbones and coil springs, rear transverse leaf springs and de Dion axle.


Qualifying



Pos No Driver Average
1 12 Luigi Musso 281.077 kph (N.B. Musso qualified Hawthorn's car)
2 9 Bob Veith 278.857
3 19 Juan Manuel Fangio 275.841
4 35 Eddie Sachs 275.841
5 26 Don Freeland 275.180
6 1 Jimmy Bryan 275.014
7 5 Jim Rathmann 274.521
8 75 Johnny Thomson 268.682
9 8 Rodger Ward 268.635
10 98 Troy Ruttman 268.578
11 10 Stirling Moss 264.553
12 49 Ray Crawford 263.641
13 24 Jimmy Reece 263.188
14 14 Phil Hill 259.468 (N.B. Took over Musso's car)
15 56 Maurice Trintignant 258.591
16 4 Masten Gregory 254.293
17 2 Jack Fairman 246.376
18 16 Harry Schell 245.586
19 6 Ivor Bueb 241.960


The Race - Heat 1
Race day was warm and sunny, but the sensational development was whether Juan Manuel Fangio would be able to take the start or not. When the spark plugs were being changed in the morning, it was discovered that one of the pistons was cracked. It was hoped that the start would be put back sufficiently for a new piston to be fitted, but despite a delay of 15 minutes, the task couldn't be completed. The car, without an engine, was wheeled out to its grid position, and then was wheeled straight back to the pits, thereby complying with the official rules. The World Champion would not be starting the race.
Starting with a rolling start, Musso took advantage of his three gears (starting in Hawthorn's car, Hawthorn not liking the circuit and suffering from a stomach upset) to jump into the lead, followed by Sachs, Bryan and Rathmann, and completed the first lap in 56s. Sachs passed Musso to lead at the end of lap two, before Musso again took the lead with a 54.8s lap. On lap five Sachs retook the lead again, and Bryan slipped past Musso two laps later. The Italian crowd were loving it, particularly as Musso was taking considerable amounts of the banking on full opposite lock.

By the eleventh lap, Rathmann was in the lead, which was where he was to stay, from Musso, Sachs, Bryan and Freeland. Musso and Sachs continued to dispute second place vigorously until on lap 20 a big hole appeared in the crankcase of Sachs' engine, a con-rod being thrown. Second place wasn't to last for long, as six laps later Musso brought the Ferrari into the pits, suffering from the methanol exhaust fumes. New tyres were put on the car, and Hawthorn took it back out in seventh place. Stirling Moss by this time had moved up to third.

At the end of lap 53, Bob Veith passed Moss for third, and shortly afterwards Ruttman rushed past both of them as he got a tow by tucking behind a car they were lapping. Unfortunately this move was wasted, as he then had to come in the pits for fuel (while the engine was still running!), and dropped to seventh. The finishing positions were Rathmann, Bryan, Veith, Moss, Thompson and Hawthorn.


Heat 1 - Prix Esso (63 laps)



Pos No Driver Average
1 5 Jim Rathmann 59m40.9s, 269.178kph
2 1 Jimmy Bryan 1h00m04.1s
3 9 Bob Veith 1h00m26.4s
4 10 Stirling Moss 1h00m35.1s
5 75 Johnny Thomson 61 laps
6 12 Luigi Musso/Mike Hawthorn 60 laps
7 98 Troy Ruttman 60 laps
8 24 Jimmy Reece 59 laps
9 56 Maurice Trintignant 59 laps
10 49 Ray Crawford 58 laps
11 2 Jack Fairman 57 laps
12 16 Harry Schell 56 laps
13 4 Masten Gregory 55 laps
14 6 Ivor Bueb 45 laps
R 8 Rodger Ward 20 laps/torsion bar
R 35 Eddie Sachs 20 laps/con-rod
R 14 Phil Hill 17 laps/magneto/fuel line
R 26 Don Freeland 17 laps/cam gear
DNS 19 Juan Manuel Fangio changing cracked piston for second race


Heat 2
There then followed an hour and a half break, during which time the mechanics welded various bits back together. The drivers would start the race in the finishing order of the previous race. Fangio still wasn't able to take the start, and Maurice Trintignant was replaced by a rookie driver by the name of AJ Foyt.
Rathmann led this race uninterrupted, from Bryan, Musso, Moss and Veith on lap 1. Schell's Ferrari very quickly retired, suffering from several mechanical maladies. Veith, Moss, Ruttmann and Bryan spent the next few laps swapping places, and on lap 19 Musso again brought the 4.2 litre Ferrari into the pits suffering from the fumes, but this time he handed over to Phil Hill, the 3-litre Ferrari he drove in the first race not starting the second. Hill would bring the car back into the pits on lap 40 for a tyre change.

Moss, now in 3rd, closed on Veith, while Bryan, followed closely by Ruttman, closed on Moss, and there followed a very close battle between the four drivers from lap 31 until lap 56, the cars slipstreaming past each other on the long straights. On lap 57 though, Moss began to loose revs due to the failure of one of his two magnetos (the engine having two spark plugs per cylinder), and he dropped back into fourth at the finish. As Ruttman crossed the finishing line, Fairman hoved into view in a cloud of smoke - a piston had gone on the last lap.


Heat 2 - Prix Mobil (63 laps)



Pos No Driver Average
1 5 Jim Rathmann 1h00m18.5s, 266.388kph
2 9 Bob Veith 1h00m35.3s
3 1 Jimmy Bryan 1h01m00.9s
4 98 Troy Ruttman 1h01m02.2s
5 10 Stirling Moss 62 laps
6 56 AJ Foyt 61 laps (replaced Trintignant)
7 24 Jimmy Reece 60 laps
8 49 Ray Crawford 60 laps
9 12 Luigi Musso/Phil Hill 60 laps
10 2 Jack Fairman 57 laps
11 6 Ivor Bueb 51 laps
R 8 Rodger Ward 31 laps
R 4 Masten Gregory rear body frame
R 16 Harry Schell 12 laps/mechanicals
R 75 Johnny Thomson 1 lap/crankshaft
R 26 Don Freeland ?
DNS 19 Juan Manuel Fangio changing cracked piston for third race
DNS 35 Eddie Sachs
DNS 14 Phil Hill


Heat 3
Fangio finally appeared on the grid for the last race, but for a long time his car wasn't with him, and people began to wonder whether in fact he would drive someone else's car. Moss had a large plaster on his forehead, but he put on his helmet and goggles and climbed into his car. Hawthorn climbed into his car, and eventually Fangio's mount was wheeled out. It wouldn't be for long though, as at the end of lap one Fangio wheeled around with his fuel pump adrift, and was out of the race.
Rathmann again led from lap one, with the two Jaguars bringing up the rear. Moss had been the last off the grid, courtesy of being unable to move off in first gear and having to use top instead, and this was to presage an impressive comeback. He passed Hawthorn for sixth on lap 14, and Crawford for fifth on lap 20. He then set about catching young AJ Foyt at two seconds a lap.

Veith suddenly lost a wheel on lap 29, the car snaking around before coming safely to rest, moving Moss up into fourth place behind Rathmann, Bryan and Foyt. By now the Ferrari fumes were overcoming Hawthorn, and he brought the car in to hand over to Hill, some 24 laps after taking over. On the 41st lap though, Moss disappeared. The steering on his Eldorado-Maserati failed when he was flat out on the banking. He hit the guardrail at the top, knocking a couple of posts down before coming to rest at the bottom of the banking unharmed. It was a lucky escape. The order was then Rathmann, Bryan, Hill (who had passed Crawford on the 58th lap) and Crawford. Rathmann held this position to the finish.


Heat 3 - Prix Shell (63 laps)



Pos No Driver Average
1 5 Jim Rathmann 59m37.9s, 269.404kph
2 1 Jimmy Bryan 1h00m04.6s
3 12 Mike Hawthorn/Phil Hill 60 laps
4 49 Ray Crawford 60 laps
5 24 Jimmy Reece 59 laps
6 6 Ivor Bueb 52 laps
R 56 AJ Foyt 54 laps/crankshaft
R 4 Masten Gregory 44 laps
R 10 Stirling Moss 40 laps/accident
R 9 Bob Veith 28 laps/wheel
R 98 Troy Ruttman 12 laps/fuel line
R 19 Juan Manuel Fangio 1 lap/fuel pump


Overall
The times were then aggregated to give an overall result, the clear winner being Jim Rathmann. Unfortunately though, the Automobile Club of Milan had made a financial loss on the race, and it was never held again.

Aggregate result (189 laps)



Pos No Driver Average
1 5 Jim Rathmann 2h59m37.3, 189 laps, 166.72mph
2 1 Jimmy Bryan 3h01m09.6, 189 laps
3 12 Mike Hawthorn/Luigi Musso/Phil Hill 3h01m00.0, 180 laps
4 49 Ray Crawford 3h01m26.4, 178 laps
5 24 Jimmy Reece 3h01m50.2, 178 laps
6 56 AJ Foyt/Maurice Trintignant 2h55m58.8, 174 laps
7 10 Stirling Moss 2h40m59.2, 164 laps
8 9 Bob Veith 2h27m23.0, 153 laps
9 6 Ivor Bueb 3h01m25.8, 148 laps
10 98 Troy Ruttman 2h13m07.9, 135 laps
11 2 Jack Fairman 2h00m13.7, 114 laps
12 4 Masten Gregory 2h00m11.1, 99 laps
13 16 Harry Schell 1h18m33.2, 71 laps
14 75 Johnny Thomson 1h05m25.8, 65 laps
15 8 Rodger Ward 51 laps
16 35 Eddie Sachs 20 laps
17 26 Don Freeland 17 laps?
18 14 Phil Hill 17 laps
19 19 Juan Manuel Fangio 1 lap



From http://www.silhouet....ve/f1/rotw.html and http://www.8w.forix.com specials section

#6 quintin cloud

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 07:29

to add the data on my page is from darrens page :up:

#7 Roger Clark

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Posted 26 April 2001 - 22:11

THe 1957 race was boycotted by the newly formed drivers union, the UPPI, forerunner of the GPDA. Autospport produced the following editorial on June 7th.

A rather unfortunate position has arisen in regard to the 500 Miles of Monza, due to be run on 29th June. Apparently the newly formed Union of Professional Racing Drivers (U.P.P.l.) objects to the event on the grounds of extreme danger, and has communicated its views to the organizers. The members, which include practically all European Grand Prix drivers, agree that they will not drive in such a race, if organized on the speed circuit. It is recommended that it should be transferred to the normal road circuit. For the Americans this would, of course, be impracticable; their cars are specifically designed and constructed for track events, and could not possibly be converted to roadracing standards overnight. They themselves cannot understand the attitude of the European drivers, and are inclined to the view that the remarkable lap speeds attained by Pat O'Connor have been responsible for the objections. In any case, Enzo Ferrari has stated that he does not agree with the findings of U.P.P.l., and, furthermore,says that in the event of Scuderia Ferrari entering the race, he would expect his team drivers to honour their contracts. Team leader Peter Collins has since stated that if the Patron said he was to race in the "500", he would do so-and this in spite of the fact that he had lent his name to the objections made by the Union. Whether or not U.P.P.I. will be recognized by the F.I.A. remains to be seen, but, taking into account the attitude of the members, this would seem to be highly unlikely. The existence of such a drivers' union might lead to all sorts of complications, even to the extent of strike action on the eve of a race if members had any cause for dissatisfaction. Drivers have, of course, every right to protect their interests, but surely this can be better accomplished by reference to their own National organizations, instead of forming a union which, at the best, can be regarded only with suspicion by all race organizers. It should also be remembered that direct action affecting race contracts might lead to the loss of International Competition licences, including such severe penalties as sine die suspension. The general public has an extraordinarily short memory when it comes to popular favourites, and if the findings of U.P.P.I. result in any exclusion act against its members, motor racing would receive a temporary setback. Temporary is the operative word, for no one can ever be considered to be indispensable, and in a remarkably short time there would arise a new school of top-line racing drivers. Whether or not the Monza race provides any useful purpose is beside the point. Before rushing into print with objections, the members of U.P.P.I. would have been far better advised to consult their own National clubs-when the race was first mooted.


Whickh, in turn, brought the following letter from one of the UPPI's leading members:


65 Avenue d'lena,
Paris 16.

8th June, 1957.

DEAR GREGOR,-A few words concerning the editorial article in Autosport of 7th June may help to clarify the position regarding U.P.P.l. and race organizers.

You have the wrong idea about the union: it exists not only to protect drivers, but to work with and help organizers to make certain races safe, both for the general public and ourselves. For example, if a U.P.P.l. representative had been at St. Etienne,* this race would never have taken place, and the lives of two drivers would have been saved. How can an event be regarded as safe, with adjoining straights on which cars me travelling at 120-180 m.p.h., such as exist at St, Etienne and Dakar? Honestly, as one of the very few motoring journalists who take part in both rallies and races, and who is regarded as understanding more about motoring sport than any other writer, can you truthfully say: "it is safe to organize such races"?
Now, about our refusal to race in the Monza "500", let me explain the reasons:-
1. Our cars are not built to race on speed tracks. On the other hand, the American machines are not constructed for road circuits.
2. The Monza speed circuit is extremely dangerous, and it would be foolish to risk more accidents after what happened in the Mille Miglia. Any serious accident may well put an end to organized motor racing.
3 In support of the danger, I might point out that of the 22 ca a which started in the Italian Grand Prix last year, 10 suffered chassis breakage. In addition there were many tyre failures, despite the fact that we had only about one minute on the speed track, and two on the full road circuit! In the "500" we will be on the track continuously for 50 minutes. Do you really think that it is advisable to take such chances?
1 can assure you that neither our cars nor the drivers can possibly stand such a strain. This is not only my own personal opinion, but that of Moss, Collins, Hawthorn and Brooks-and, above all the wisest man of us all, Juan Manuel Fangio.
4. Could you find a tyre concern which would hold itself responsible for cars travelling at an average speed of 175-180 rn.p.h.?
5. Peter Collins still supports the view that the race is dangerous. He was the first to propose that we should not take part in it.
6. As far as advising us to consult our national clubs, this is not practical. We feel that these clubs are too busy with their own private affairs to see if such and such a track is safe for drivers and public.
7. If U.P.P.l. had been formed before the Monaco Grand Prix took place, we would have convinced the organizers that those big telegraph Poles placed sideways with sandbags and secured with wire were dangerous, and we would also have advised an escape road at the chicane. This might have prevented the Moss-Collins-Hawthorn pile-up at the chicane, saved the race as a spectacle, and also saved Mr. Ferrari and Mr. Vandervell a great deal of money.
I hope, my dear Gregor, that the aforementioned will explain the idea behind our little organization.
All we want is a voice in the CSI, thus being able o talk directly to the organisers and eventually work together for the benefit of motor racing

Harry Shell

Note the spelling of his name!





#8 fines

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Posted 27 April 2001 - 12:39

How's it pronounced anyway? 'Skell' or 'Shell'?

#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 April 2001 - 12:46

Shell, as in helix!!

#10 fines

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Posted 27 April 2001 - 13:31

Thnx! :)

#11 Alan Cox

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:56

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere before
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu