4478 replies to this topic

[Mc_Silver]

I think it is time to continue from Part II as the first one broke the forum record with 101 pages. 

 

I don't know how reliable that guy but Wazari is said to be working in Sakura and he wrote something on F1technical.

 

 

 

My inbox has been flooded. Sorry can not answer you all but seems centered on a few things.

1. Yes I am extremely busy. People can bash away. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
2. I have been asked as others too, not to comment on any status as to specific problems or items. In general, mood at Sakura is very good, believe it or not. Many expected and unexpected setbacks but it appears nothing major. As I mentioned to others via PM, oil scavenging issue was under heavy braking, why this became an issue, I don't know, obviously either a design issue or manufacturing issue.
3. Is Sasha real??? Haha. I will say this, he knew the owner's name of a small restaurant in Sakura where the locals go that's been there since the '60's and completely off the grid. Also knew of the small grocery, convenience store up the hill behind the restaurant that unless you were a local and have been to Sakura, you would never know about it. The road isn't on the map. It's seems strange to me, all these people asking about him lately???
4. I am still excited about this season. I am optimistic, anxious and happy with the new PU. Spec 0.8, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1. 

 

If he is reliable, it is not all doom and gloom. Let's hope next week team can have trouble free testing and put some great mileage on the car and develop from there. 

[KnucklesAgain]

I think it is time to continue from Part II as the first one broke the forum record with 101 pages. 

 

I don't know how reliable that guy but Wazari is said to be working in Sakura and he wrote something on F1technical.

 

 

If he is reliable, it is not all doom and gloom. Let's hope next week team can have trouble free testing and put some great mileage on the car and develop from there. 

 

Is the limit even still in place?

[CPR]

It would be nice if the engine is more of a non-issue next week and we can start to have more discussion on the chassis/aero, though unfortunately that tends to be very subjective.

 

Fingers crossed...

[Lotus53B]

The limit depends on when the mods want to spawn the thread - when I was visiting the paddock club there were threads approaching 200 pages.  The upgrade to the forum software last year removed the limits.  And the quotes

 

EDIT:  The previous thread hasn't been mod-locked yet, and this thread isn't mod created, so this could be confusing.

Edited by Lotus53B, 04 March 2017 - 22:27.

[Mc_Silver]

Is the limit even still in place?

 

Yeah normally the limit is 80 pages. 

[Mc_Silver]

It would be nice if the engine is more of a non-issue next week and we can start to have more discussion on the chassis/aero, though unfortunately that tends to be very subjective.

 

Fingers crossed...

 

I wonder how many HPs did other teams find ? If the rumored 70HP gain is right for Mercedes, F1 will be doomed. 

[KnucklesAgain]

Yeah normally the limit is 80 pages. 

 

What does "normally" mean, I knew there was the limit, but is it still? Maybe someone improved the steam engine in the server. The other thread is still open so now there are two ...

[Marklar]

I think it is time to continue from Part II as the first one broke the forum record with 101 pages.

Nowhere near

http://forums.autosp...-mp4-26-merged/

Since the Server update no limit is anymore in place. The mods are stil locking it usually earlier in order to have a better overview (not in the Paddock Club btw). Either way a new thread should not be created without locking the previous one ;)

Edited by Marklar, 04 March 2017 - 22:39.

[Lotus53B]

I wonder if we can start a flame war between first thread luddites and new threads evolutionists, and those who think we should start a 3rd thread...The MdLaren MCL32...one thread is not enough

[Mc_Silver]

I wonder if we can start a flame war between first thread luddites and new threads evolutionists, and those who think we should start a 3rd thread...The MdLaren MCL32...one thread is not enough

 

Let's hope that MCL32 will be as quick as their fans 

[CPR]

I wonder how many HPs did other teams find ? If the rumored 70HP gain is right for Mercedes, F1 will be doomed. 

 

I've not been following the discussion on engines in general too closely, so I might have missed something but Mercedes themselves say they haven't yet hit 1000 hp. If that's truly the case and they're talking about the same thing as other discussions on max power then I'd say that puts a limit on how big the jump is. Generally, reports in the media seem to be much bigger than reality. If all the reports of how big a jump Mercedes has gotten from year to year for the hybrid era were correct then I'd think they'd be hitting 1100 hp

 

That's not to say that they couldn't have made a big leap in race pace performance. After all, max power isn't everything. It's average power over a lap. If they found a good way to recover much more power through the ERS then max power wouldn't change much but average power could go up a lot.

[Risil]

McLaren MCL32 Part 1 is now closed. You people.

[MPB]

First!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Damn....

[Mc_Silver]

McLaren MCL32 Part 1 is now closed. You people.

 

Thanks for the official confirmation sir. We can move on from here.

 

So what are the expectations for the next test guys ? What would make you feel optimistic next weekend ? Topping the timesheets with some reliability issues ? or trouble-free week with lots of mileage but slower lap times? or other (please mention) ?

[DaveWebb]

So, according to Wazari, there are 4 specs either completed or in progress; 0.8, 0.9. 1.0 and 1.1

 

Assuming 1.0 is Melbourne spec and 1.1 is the second of 4 engines allowed for the year with no penalty, they were either testing with 0.8 or 0.9. 0.8 for McLaren to finalise the installation and 0.9 to test in Barcelona.

 

Hopefully 1.0 still on track and they are not testing an 0.9.1 on Tuesday.

Edited by DaveWebb, 04 March 2017 - 23:35.

[KnucklesAgain]

So, according to Wazari, there are 4 specs either completed or in progress; 0.8, 0.9. 1.0 and 1.1

 

Assuming 1.0 is Melbourne spec and 1.1 is the second of 4 engines allowed for the year with no penalty, they were either testing with 0.8 or 0.9. 0.8 for McLaren to finalise the installation and 0.9 to test in Barcelona.

 

Hopefully 1.0 still on track and they are not testing an 0.9.1 on Tuesday.

 

If Melbourne is 1.0 that would make Barcelona 2 the 0.9, but did they not say they would run the Melbourne spec in Barcelona 2? (choosing to believe Wazari for the sake of argument)

[Mc_Silver]

If Melbourne is 1.0 that would make Barcelona 2 the 0.9, but did they not say they would run the Melbourne spec in Barcelona 2? (choosing to believe Wazari for the sake of argument)

 

I think they will run Melbourne spec next week. Then, if there is something unexpected they will try to fix them before Melbourne and there they will use the modified version. 

[RichardF1fan]

l think the team will go for reliability - as all those 2 or 3 points per race add up to money at the end of the year. So I expect testing to be more about reliability and coming in about 8th on the timesheets.

 

Personally I'd like to see top of the time sheets even if the car finishes the lap in a cloud of burning oil. It would show the chassis to be good and that  there is potential in the engine, Possibly only the potential to finish one race in 10 though, but if it gets them on the podium twice this year that will be good enough for me.

[keshav]

So, according to Wazari, there are 4 specs either completed or in progress; 0.8, 0.9. 1.0 and 1.1

 

Assuming 1.0 is Melbourne spec and 1.1 is the second of 4 engines allowed for the year with no penalty, they were either testing with 0.8 or 0.9. 0.8 for McLaren to finalise the installation and 0.9 to test in Barcelona.

 

Hopefully 1.0 still on track and they are not testing an 0.9.1 on Tuesday.

Who is Wazari? Sources?

[MrRat]

Who is Wazari? Sources?

Apparently he is some senior engineer who worked with Honda in the 80s during their domination period and was called in again last year to work on this year's PU. Some people believe he is a fake and nobody. Some people believe he is genuine and some people have claimed to meet him in paddock over at F1tech.  

Personally I am a bit conflicted about him. Sometimes I feel he is genuine and other times I believe he is just some random guy posing as an F1 insider.

[MPB]

Thanks for the official confirmation sir. We can move on from here.

 

So what are the expectations for the next test guys ? What would make you feel optimistic next weekend ? Topping the timesheets with some reliability issues ? or trouble-free week with lots of mileage but slower lap times? or other (please mention) ?

 

Trouble free, consistent running. Drivers commenting on the car being 'easy' to drive.

[jonpollak]

I'll just look at this pic from Riverside...

'

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 05 March 2017 - 00:51.

[BuzzingHornet]

Its sh!t or bust time this week. They are going to run the best engine they have - the Melbourne race engine.

Fingers crossed.

Edited by BuzzingHornet, 05 March 2017 - 01:13.

[TDPage]

Imagine not being a McLaren fan... imagine not having to spend an hour a night scrolling through countless arguments whilst your girlfriend is like "you actually coming to bed tonight?" - oh **** it's 0130! 😂

[Eruobodo]

Imagine not being a McLaren fan... imagine not having to spend an hour a night scrolling through countless arguments whilst your girlfriend is like "you actually coming to bed tonight?" - oh **** it's 0130!

Imagine being an Alonso fan and an Arsenal fan.

[TDPage]

Imagine being an Alonso fan and an Arsenal fan.

😂 I'm Chelsea so at least I'm not 100% depressed like yourself!

[Widefoot2]

If you had a vote in the matter, would you ask McLaren and Honda to treat this year as a test and development period, and bring new updated engines frequently, damn the penalties? 

 

I would. And I'd bet Alonzo would prefer that, as his aggressive nature would be more satisfied with the chance of driving at the front, even if there was a likelihood of PU failure or other system fault.  Having to come from the back due to grid penalties would engage him too, a part-race F1 PU is better than a full-race GP2 unit.

 

I'd also like to hear that Honda is improving their development dynomometers and simulation capability, they should not have come to the first test with anything other that a fully-functional engine, even if not at MB power levels.

[DaveWebb]

From F1Technical forum

 

Re: Honda Power Unit

• 0
•  

Postby Wazari » 04 Mar 2017, 23:25

dr_cooke wrote:
1.0 being Melbourne?

TBD, 1.0 or 1.1

[DaveWebb]

Here is the exchange between GoranF1 (questions) and Wazari (answers) over at F1Technical forum. Usual caveats apply.

 

 

Why was Honda PU during 1st test whit less power than in AD 2016?

1. Was it? Maybe detuned?

 

Why didnt Honda see oil tank problem in their state of art Dyno benches?

2. Maybe because "dyno benches" don't brake from 260 to 50?

 

What is Honda's plan to find 80hp gap from 2016 to Mercedes and 70hp Mercedes find for 2017?

3. You better check your HP figures..

 

Is it normal that a team drives so litlle during tests due to engine problems, when there is only 4 days of tests per driver?

4. What do you think?

 

Is it true Honda 2017 ERS system is not efficient enough?

5. Is it?

 

If Mclaren Honda does not make it out of Q1 in AUS, will it be more because of Honda or Mclaren(in your opinion)

6. Neither, it would because the other cars are faster.

 

Is Honda happy whit Mclaren chassis during Test1?

7. Not important if Honda is happy. McLaren and its drivers need to happy.

 

Why were Mclaren drivers last in speed traps during Test 1?

8. I don't know, I think you already know. 

 

If engine was detuned in Test1, by how much was it?

9. A lot.      

[BJHF1]

How incredibly insightful! :0

[MattPete]

Ugh. I thought this forum had a 'block' button.

[MrRat]

Here is the exchange between GoranF1 (questions) and Wazari (answers) over at F1Technical forum. Usual caveats apply.


Why was Honda PU during 1st test whit less power than in AD 2016?
1. Was it? Maybe detuned?

Why didnt Honda see oil tank problem in their state of art Dyno benches?
2. Maybe because "dyno benches" don't brake from 260 to 50?

What is Honda's plan to find 80hp gap from 2016 to Mercedes and 70hp Mercedes find for 2017?
3. You better check your HP figures..

Is it normal that a team drives so litlle during tests due to engine problems, when there is only 4 days of tests per driver?
4. What do you think?

Is it true Honda 2017 ERS system is not efficient enough?
5. Is it?

If Mclaren Honda does not make it out of Q1 in AUS, will it be more because of Honda or Mclaren(in your opinion)
6. Neither, it would because the other cars are faster.

Is Honda happy whit Mclaren chassis during Test1?
7. Not important if Honda is happy. McLaren and its drivers need to happy.

Why were Mclaren drivers last in speed traps during Test 1?
8. I don't know, I think you already know.

If engine was detuned in Test1, by how much was it?
9. A lot.

No definitive answer. Just diplomatic ****.

Edited by MrRat, 05 March 2017 - 03:11.

[DaveWebb]

I can't find that Convo in the PU thread. Mind linking it? Thanks !

 

http://www.f1technic...rt=6180#p680679

[MrRat]

http://www.f1technic...rt=6180#p680679

Yeah I found it. I edited my reply just as u responded lol.

[DaveWebb]

He does say in one of his posts:

 

2. I have been asked as others too, not to comment on any status as to specific problems or items. In general, mood at Sakura is very good, believe it or not. Many expected and unexpected setbacks but it appears nothing major.

 

Will be interesting to see if this gels with Honda's statements next week re the Day 2 problem.

[LiftAndCoast]

 

Here is the exchange between GoranF1 (questions) and Wazari (answers) over at F1Technical forum. Usual caveats apply.

 

 

Why was Honda PU during 1st test whit less power than in AD 2016?

1. Was it? Maybe detuned?

 

Why didnt Honda see oil tank problem in their state of art Dyno benches?

2. Maybe because "dyno benches" don't brake from 260 to 50?

 

What is Honda's plan to find 80hp gap from 2016 to Mercedes and 70hp Mercedes find for 2017?

3. You better check your HP figures..

 

Is it normal that a team drives so litlle during tests due to engine problems, when there is only 4 days of tests per driver?

4. What do you think?

 

Is it true Honda 2017 ERS system is not efficient enough?

5. Is it?

 

If Mclaren Honda does not make it out of Q1 in AUS, will it be more because of Honda or Mclaren(in your opinion)

6. Neither, it would because the other cars are faster.

 

Is Honda happy whit Mclaren chassis during Test1?

7. Not important if Honda is happy. McLaren and its drivers need to happy.

 

Why were Mclaren drivers last in speed traps during Test 1?

8. I don't know, I think you already know. 

 

If engine was detuned in Test1, by how much was it?

9. A lot.      

 

Very Walter Mitty, if you ask me.

[TakataDomeNSX]

Thanks for the official confirmation sir. We can move on from here.

 

So what are the expectations for the next test guys ? What would make you feel optimistic next weekend ? Topping the timesheets with some reliability issues ? or trouble-free week with lots of mileage but slower lap times? or other (please mention) ?

 

 

100s of laps in the 17 and 18s please. Not possible of course, but what would make people happier?

[Peter0Scandlyn]

'Scuse my lack of knowledge here....are either of these people important and informed sources?

 

Beyond other then to themselves of course........'cause we just seem to be wasting space.....

[Vettelari]

Had McLaren not signed Honda, would they have maintained semi-works status (RBR-Renault) with Mercedes in 2014 and beyong or would they have been in Force India's shoes as a customer only?

If Honda and McLaren did manage to split, how quickly would we see a team sign up to be their works partner if they decided to carry on? Would it be a team at the front like RBR, midfield with nothing to lose like Williams, FI, or Haas, or would a backmarker like Sauber be most likely to take a bet like they did with BMW once more with Honda?

[McLobby]

 

Here is the exchange between GoranF1 (questions) and Wazari (answers) over at F1Technical forum. Usual caveats apply.

 

Just the sort of answers I expected from someone playing the ''insider'' to give..

 

He does say in one of his posts:

 

2. I have been asked as others too, not to comment on any status as to specific problems or items. In general, mood at Sakura is very good, believe it or not. Many expected and unexpected setbacks but it appears nothing major.

 

Will be interesting to see if this gels with Honda's statements next week re the Day 2 problem.

 

Even if it doesn't, he can claim that he was not allowed to comment on that....

 

These days on the internet, everyone is what he claims to be, and since some people will believe anything, some others just take advantage of it....

[MrRat]

Just the sort of answers I expected from someone playing the ''insider'' to give..

 

 

Even if it doesn't, he can claim that he was not allowed to comment on that....

 

These days on the internet, everyone is what he claims to be, and since some people will believe anything, some others just take advantage of it....

 

 

Exactly. There are some things he says which makes me want to trust him. People on f1tech claim to know him and claim to meet him in the paddock and then there are responses like the one to those questions which make me doubt his very existence. Marumasa is adamant that he is a fake.

[Quickshifter]

Doing a second filming day so soon after the first is a dead give away that Honda were testing something. Now if that something is a fix for the issue they faced in the first two days or were shaking down a new spec meant for second preseason test cannot be ascertained. One thing is for sure that the engine was no where it's full power in the first test which gives me confidence that Mclaren Honda have lot more to come when compared to other teams.

Melbourne is not an aero track and hence Mclaren are trying to spend as much time designing and developing aero parts before introduction. People are judging Mclaren Honda more by what has transpired in the past than the situation n circumstances now. Honda has had two years under their belt now, their facilities are being upgraded, the understanding n cooperation is getting better with Mclaren and issues are being fixed with much more immediacy.

The second test will be a lot more representative as to the state of Mclaren Honda package than the first which was basically all about data collection on both car and engine and forming a baseline to work from.

Edited by Quickshifter, 05 March 2017 - 07:55.

[blacky]

Exactly. There are some things he says which makes me want to trust him. People on f1tech claim to know him and claim to meet him in the paddock and then there are responses like the one to those questions which make me doubt his very existence. Marumasa is adamant that he is a fake.

 

Isn't it the case that only the so called insiders "Wazari" and "Sasha" met each other last year? 

 

Anyway, it's not important for me who writes things in the internet, it is naturally interesting sometimes, or even what EB or Hasegawa say (in the end they all want to protect their own head), results count.

 

Nevertheless it is very ominous that an employee (at least he was one in 2016 as he claims) of an F1 manufacturer writes about his job in the internet. Since internet became popular at the 00s, I never witnessed sth. like this and to be honest I very much doubt that a company like Honda, Mercedes, McLaren or RBR would tolerate this. I am pretty sure that there are stipulations in their employee contracts about such things...

Edited by blacky, 05 March 2017 - 08:33.

[KnucklesAgain]

Imagine not being a McLaren fan... imagine not having to spend an hour a night scrolling through countless arguments whilst your girlfriend is like "you actually coming to bed tonight?" - oh **** it's 0130!

 

[Clatter]

If you had a vote in the matter, would you ask McLaren and Honda to treat this year as a test and development period, and bring new updated engines frequently, damn the penalties?

I would. And I'd bet Alonzo would prefer that, as his aggressive nature would be more satisfied with the chance of driving at the front, even if there was a likelihood of PU failure or other system fault. Having to come from the back due to grid penalties would engage him too, a part-race F1 PU is better than a full-race GP2 unit.

I'd also like to hear that Honda is improving their development dynomometers and simulation capability, they should not have come to the first test with anything other that a fully-functional engine, even if not at MB power levels.

If things are not going well then definitely. I'd much prefer they bring in updates as soon as possible and not use the the engine count as the timetable.

[KnucklesAgain]

Ugh. I thought this forum had a 'block' button.

 

It does

[Clatter]

He does say in one of his posts:

2. I have been asked as others too, not to comment on any status as to specific problems or items. In general, mood at Sakura is very good, believe it or not. Many expected and unexpected setbacks but it appears nothing major.

Will be interesting to see if this gels with Honda's statements next week re the Day 2 problem.

They may have expected some set backs, but they didn't anticipate how many or the nature. Otherwise there would have been no need to ship another engine over.

[CPR]

Thanks for the official confirmation sir. We can move on from here.

 

So what are the expectations for the next test guys ? What would make you feel optimistic next weekend ? Topping the timesheets with some reliability issues ? or trouble-free week with lots of mileage but slower lap times? or other (please mention) ?

 

Well, what I'd like to see is some hints that we should be more competitive than last year. Considering the extra drag (due to the wider tyres) I'm expecting average speed trap figures to come down for most teams but if we have improved as much as hoped on the engine side then I would expect us to have higher speed trap figures than we did last year (we seem to have a fairly low drag setup, otherwise I would be expecting lower values). In winter testing last year, the we did 322.3 kph through the speed trap. Red Bull have already done 330 kph this year so matching that would be nice to have.

 

It would also be nice to see us posting decent single lap times on a variety of tyres, indicating that tyre warm up issues are not much of a problem and that single lap pace is good. It's hard to trust track side reports but it would be nice to hear that handling seems to be good.

 

I'm not sure how likely we are to get a race sim, but it would be nice to see some long runs.

 

As for what we'll actually get, I'm not going to predict. It's hard to predict reliability, for example.

[LiftAndCoast]

Well, Boullier is starting to be a little less diplomatic -

Boullier remains adamant that McLaren's chassis has hit performance targets, but is well aware that success this year will rest on Honda being able to turn around its situation.

Asked about the goals for 2017, Boullier said: "It depends which ones you're talking about. The goals we, McLaren, set ourselves, we achieved almost all of them.

"But our goals on track are different. We need to wait for Honda, according to what I saw this week, to make things right a little bit."

http://www.autosport...ere-near-target

[pacificquay]

Autosport's anti McLaren bias highlighted in that article where it says the team is bracing itself for a frustrating campaign. The quotes from Boo-E-A are more positive than that interpretation