4006 replies to this topic

[AmonGods]

Just saw a tweet that Lewis pited earlier because of those used US he qualified on. Was those used or not?

[TheRacingElf]

He wasn't screwed, he stopped when he wanted it to happen because in his opinion the tyres were done.     

 

Yawn all you want,  your narrative is BS.

No your narraitive is BS.

 

Mercedes should've told him he couldn't come in yet because he would come out in traffic. Merc has the overview, Lewis doesn't. 

[sennafan24]

Just saw a tweet that Lewis pited earlier because of those used US he qualified on. Was those used or not?

Nah, fresh set. 

[Kvothe]

Which one lost his position from the start?

Let me answer a terrible response with another.... out of the two who gained a position from the start?

[Riverside]

Come on I have watched the guy for years, he's dramatic and overblown on track. He was still 2nd fastest on track. Merc should know better.

 

Big deal Tom  I've been watching F1 for 40 years... if he stayed out and it didn't deliver the victory you'd be saying he should have stopped earlier... I've been watching you for years

[OO7]

Just saw a tweet that Lewis pited earlier because of those used US he qualified on. Was those used or not?

No, they weren't used, they were new.

[Kvothe]

Just saw a tweet that Lewis pited earlier because of those used US he qualified on. Was those used or not?

No, well as least the F1 app was showing it had the same wear length as the others.

[Riverside]

No your narraitive is BS.

 

Mercedes should've told him he couldn't come in yet because he would come out in traffic. Merc has the overview, Lewis doesn't. 

 

  BS...   refer to Lewis's own comments and give me a break.   Obviously you're claiming somehow he felt it would have been better to stay out....   

[Gorma]

Good job from Bottas, considering Felipe used to out-perform him here in previous seasons, in qualifying and the race...

Of the three races, Bottas had a gearbox penalty in two races and once didn't race because he had a broken back.

[Synkro89]

Big deal Tom  I've been watching F1 for 40 years... if he stayed out and it didn't deliver the victory you'd be saying he should have stopped earlier... I've been watching you for years

nice to have you around Riverside.

[Risil]

Lewis lost a lot of time the lap before he pitted. Does anyone know why?

 

Hamilton was on the radio asking whether he'd damaged his floor or the tyres and Brundle on Sky suggested he might've gone off the track briefly. Or was that later?

[Kvothe]

Big deal Tom I've been watching F1 for 40 years... if he stayed out and it didn't deliver the victory you'd be saying he should have stopped earlier... I've been watching you for years

Lol Riverside...Your inner creep is showing.

[Huffer]

No your narraitive is BS.

 

Merc has the overview, Lewis doesn't. 

 

Pretty much this - as we're constantly reminded, it's a team sport. Lewis may have been frustrated that his tires went off, probably earlier than expected, but the guys in the pits are the ones who can more readily see the consequences of pitting vs staying out for a bit longer. 

[Kvothe]

Hamilton was on the radio asking whether he'd damaged his floor or the tyres and Brundle on Sky suggested he might've gone off the track briefly. Or was that later?

Brundle suggested it after Lewis pitted, and Crofty pointed out that Lewis lost a lot of time in the first sector....however it wasn't shown by FOM (who surely would have shown it)...So it's all up in the air.

[CountDooku]

He wasn't screwed, he stopped when he wanted it to happen because in his opinion the tyres were done.

Yawn all you want, your narrative is BS.

Drivers give feedback on grip, do they track the race progress of people 22 seconds behind? Do they know where they will emerge when they pit? Do they change their own tyres? The onus is on the team to NEVER pit someone into traffic unless the car is critical. Someone who claims to know racing should understand this.

[TheRacingElf]

  BS...   refer to Lewis's own comments and give me a break.   Obviously you're claiming somehow he felt it would have been better to stay out....   

LOL so you seriously think Lewis has a better view on how the race is panning out than the team on the pitwall?!

[JonnyJ]

Yes, but driver can (or should) be able to tell the drop-off is nearing by how the tyres are behaving. This is what for example Bottas was good at during his Williams years, he has a feel for them and can tell with near certainty how many laps they have in them. It's a good quality to have because timing will reveal the drop off only after it has already happened.

Not saying Lewis did a bad job, I just think it's not fair to put the entire blame on team's side. Lewis is an experienced driver so he should take it easy, especially as Ferrari's form can't have been a complete surprise to Mercedes.

 

Thing is Lewis can tell the team the grip is dropping and he probably did feel like he was losing performance so he was right to inform them, he wouldnt be doing his duty if he didnt. Its then up or Merc to decide, by looking at the times, whether the reported drop off is actually bad enough to need to pit, and if the gap was there. Lewis can only feel his own pace, he obviously saw VET closing so knew his was worse and probably feared the undercut himself. What he didnt know was where RAI and VES were, thats where the team has to make a judgement call. Are his times enough to keep VET behind? If Yes, continue, unless theres a gap, then box. If no, then you're in a tricky situation.

 

The answer in this case was Yes, he had the pace to keep VET behind and the gap was opening. Hold station, if Ferrari blink, they'll be in traffic.

 

When Lewis called to report the grip drop, he should've been assured the pace is enough.

[Jordan44]

This thread has shown some people's true colours.

People pretending to be fans of one driver when really they just hate the opposition.

[CountDooku]

Brundle suggested it after Lewis pitted, and Crofty pointed out that Lewis lost a lot of time in the first sector....however it wasn't shown by FOM (who surely would have shown it)...So it's all up in the air.

He had traffic in the final sector before he pit.

[sennafan24]

I've been watching you for years

[TomNokoe]

Lewlew's call to pit then? Awful decision.

After he spent all winter complaining about dirty air, he can't put 2+2 together out on track.

[Dicun]

Lewis was screwed by strategy. I don't understand why Merc's strategist hates him so much.

 

They absolutely loath and despise him, yes. That's why they've won 32 races and 2 WDCs together.

 

About the race: I for one am glad that it seems we will finally be able to see a season long fight between Seb and Lewis in what looks like to be pretty much equal machinery in terms of race pace. Valtteri was faster than expected, although he was never a real threat to Lewis - as soon as he got within 2-2,5 secs to Lewis, the gap was immediately managed by Lewis despite Valtteri being on the fresher tyres. It was a good first race from Valtteri nevertheless - nothing spectacular but a solid job.

 

The main point is that it will hopefully be an interesting season and battle for the title between Seb and Lewis.

[OO7]

Vettel could be in a very strong position in the championship if the cars are even, because Kimi will be nowhere.

[Huffer]

Lewlew's call to pit then? Awful decision.

After he spent all winter complaining about dirty air, he can't put 2+2 together out on track.

 

Geez...if they gave him feedback and he said "I'm pitting anyway" then what can you say? Hopefully this will be a learning experience for him and the team. 

[Riverside]

LOL so you seriously think Lewis has a better view on how the race is panning out than the team on the pitwall?!

 

Why don't you send a message to Lewis because all I have put forward is what he said about pitting because he said his tyres were finished.  The entire bs narrative that somehow Mercedes screwed the strategy... ask Lewis about that.

[baddog]

Wait 3 laps and they could have still pit early and come out ahead of Max. Too impulsive!

 

Dont be so hard on him, Lewis, as the lead driver at that point, had to guess if his were going off worse than others. He obviously truly felt he needed to stop and told the team that.

 

It can be hard to make that call and you are not always going to be right.. nor can you always say if you stayed out it would have been better, it could have been worse if he had not stopped, Valtteri almost got him as it was, imagine if he stayed out, lost more time and ended up third?

[TomNokoe]

[Synkro89]

Brundle suggested it after Lewis pitted, and Crofty pointed out that Lewis lost a lot of time in the first sector....however it wasn't shown by FOM (who surely would have shown it)...So it's all up in the air.

 

Yea it was at turn 3. He went slightly wide onto the green stuff.

[TomNokoe]

I retract anything I said on Merc "knowing better".

Hamilton has questioned their strategies on more than one occasion so perhaps he was due a taste of his own medicine.

[CountDooku]

Trolling? Saying what Lewis said himself is trolling? This coming from you is farcical...

You seem to be struggling to understand me. Did Lewis call to pit knowing he would come out right behind verstappen?

Again YOU DO NOT PIT A CAR INTO TRAFFIC.

[TheRacingElf]

Why don't you send a message to Lewis because all I have put forward is what he said about pitting because he said his tyres were finished.  The entire bs narrative that somehow Mercedes screwed the strategy... ask Lewis about that.

And all I'm saying is that Mercedes shouldn't have brought him in despite Lewis saying his tyres were finished. Mercedes has a view on the bigger picture and Lewis has not, you can keep calling that BS but that's just the truth.

[Jordan44]

It smells like Monaco all over again. Even if Lewis is pushing for a stop they should be able to see the window isn't there to bring him out in front of the Red Bull. Lewis isn't to know that.

But yet again they roll over and ignore all the data they have. Lessons not learnt.

Edited by Jordan44, 26 March 2017 - 07:25.

[tmekt]

When Lewis called to report the grip drop, he should've been assured the pace is enough.

No, he should prep himself to manage the emotions. It might've still been okay when all he had to was to battle Rosberg but not anymore. If this race wasn't a one off from Ferrari (as it likely weren't) it's not going to get any easier in the coming races. I'm sure Lewis has it in him, considering the first years of his F1 career.

[sennafan24]

I think they might have been working under the presumption that Max would pit sooner than he did. Or perhaps Lewis would be able to pass him on fresh rubber. They should have egged Lewis on to stay out longer, perhaps even 1 lap would have done the trick. However, it's all in retrospect. These sort of calls are part of racing. Thin margins and all that. 

Just quoting this. Not to self-promote myself - well not just that - but to respond to a few queries above. 

[SilverArrow31]

Guys he didnt say "Look get ready im coming in these tires are f**ked!" He was giving feedback about how his tires were feeling. I dont get all this talk of moaning and complaining. Yes he sounded agitated but that isn't that odd.

[kernel]

It smells like Monaco all over again. Even if Lewis is pushing for a stop they should be able to see the window isn't there to bring him out in front of the Red Bull. Lewis isn't to know that.

But yet again they roll over and ignore all the data they have. Lessons not learnt.

 

I think the Mercedes pitwall thought that everyone behind Lewis would have followed him into the pits in the following laps - but they didn't because tyre wear was minimal or manageable until the mid-20 laps.

[Riverside]

Just quoting this. Not to self-promote myself - well not just that - but to respond to a few queries above. 

 

Stop making sense you stupid midget.

[Marklar]

No, he should prep himself to manage the emotions. 

Wait, what?

 

I've been watching you for years

This would scare me

[Kvothe]

Force India guy on sky....Track position was king...I don't know what Mercedes was doing today.

[Jvr]

Good drive from Bottas, very happy for him. And the hunger for first victory, I believe, is the reason why he looked a bit stoic in the podium. That is not a bad attitude for a racer at all.

 

I think Merc strategy team got a bit surprised that Verstappen ran so long in order to make that last stint with Super Softs to work. So Lewis staying out few laps more for his first stint would not really helped him at all and he would have been behind Red Bull anyway. After all Vettel managed to get long enough gap just and just to get in front of Max.

[Riverside]

And all I'm saying is that Mercedes shouldn't have brought him in despite Lewis saying his tyres were finished. Mercedes has a view on the bigger picture and Lewis has not, you can keep calling that BS but that's just the truth.

 

 

 

... and had they not brought him in and it not worked out - you'd be pounding the same drum.  What's BS is that they can't win win with most of you.

[sennafan24]

Stop making sense you stupid midget.

Midget? I'm 6ft tall, you old git. 

[CountDooku]

Just quoting this. Not to self-promote myself - well not just that - but to respond to a few queries above.

I don't agree with that at all for a number of reasons:

1) Max is not easy to overtake
2) The RBR is a fast car, not a midfielder as is usually the case in these situations
3) Merc knew the US tyres were going to last for ages
4) Melbourne is not an easy track to overtake in
5) the Merc for 2 years now has been terrible following other cars
6) There were rumours of an overcut being the favoured strategy
7) Lewis had a clear gap to Seb, who was out of DRS range
8) Lewis was still very fast

All those combined meant there was literally no reason to pit him when they did. The team's job is to manage the race and look at their competition. They reacted like Seb was the only person on track.

Edited by CountDooku, 26 March 2017 - 07:45.

[Gorma]

I think they might have been working under the presumption that Max would pit sooner than he did. Or perhaps Lewis would be able to pass him on fresh rubber. They should have egged Lewis on to stay out longer, perhaps even 1 lap would have done the trick. However, it's all in retrospect. These sort of calls are part of racing. Thin margins and all that. 

Still it's amusing that the best people with most knowledge make wrong decisions time after time. I'm not just talking about Mercedes. They are willing to sacrifice track position on a track where overtaking is almost impossible with the modern cars.

[JonnyJ]

No, he should prep himself to manage the emotions. It might've still been okay when all he had to was to battle Rosberg but not anymore. If this race wasn't a one off from Ferrari (as it likely weren't) it's not going to get any easier in the coming races. I'm sure Lewis has it in him, considering the first years of his F1 career.

 

His job is to inform the team, not to dictate strat, they pay someone for that. He cant just say nothing or tell lies, that will misinform the team. The tyre were losing grip, he told them. The rest is up to them, or it should be, if they'e getting led by driver emotion rather than lap times they're in for some harsh lessons this season.

 

"Lewis says his tyres have lost grip"

"They probably have, but his times are fine and theres no gap yet, we could lose the race"

"But he sounds really sad about it"

"WHAT?! BOX HIM NOW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD"

[Riverside]

Midget? I'm 6ft tall, you old git. 

 

I'm 6ft1 you bla bla effin something or other. 

[superdelphinus]

Bottas seems good compared to Hamilton

[Riverside]

Wait, what?

 

This would scare me

 

So you're saying Tom's assertions about Lewis don't scare you?

[TomNokoe]

I don't agree with that at all for a number of reasons:

Hamilton said in the presser it was his call.

He should have known all of the above reasons against pitting.

Merc didn't want to pit but Hamilton called it.

Just desserts!!!

[P123]

Drivers give feedback on grip, do they track the race progress of people 22 seconds behind? Do they know where they will emerge when they pit? Do they change their own tyres? The onus is on the team to NEVER pit someone into traffic unless the car is critical. Someone who claims to know racing should understand this.

Yeah, it's fairly elementary. Lewis could be whining louder than his engine, but if pitting is going to be an act of self-harm, then you don't pit. The team could see that (I think the rest of us could via live timing too..). It was a gamble which didn't pay off as it handed the high ground to Ferrari. Merc were then relying on others to pit.