4652 replies to this topic

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Unfortunately I couldn't watch FP1. Did we try the skinny rear wing?

[Mc_Silver]

Unfortunately I couldn't watch FP1. Did we try the skinny rear wing?

 

Yes, we did. 

[Joseki]

Both Red Bull and McLaren tried a low dowforce set up, Red Bull will have the high downforce set on both cars tomorrow, McLaren already had it on both cars for FP2.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Yes, we did. 

 

Both Red Bull and McLaren tried a low dowforce set up, Red Bull will have the high downforce set on both cars tomorrow, McLaren already had it on both cars for FP2.

So it is almost safe to say we won't use the skinny rear wing. Right?

[Joseki]

I don't expect it here at Spa, probably at Monza.

[Mc_Silver]

So it is almost safe to say we won't use the skinny rear wing. Right?

 

It looks like it.

[Eruobodo]

Hasegawa and Brown confirm engine performance improvements with developments that have been released here. Spec 4 could arrive in Monza for Alo.

@AlbertFabrega

Is this the one to be at par with Renault?

[rodlamas]

Is this the one to be at par with Renault?

988bhp

[TakataDomeNSX]

1088

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Is there a trend?

 

Make it 1188 

[kumo7]

Renos are climbing the ladder. 

[hasika]

Is this the one to be at par with Renault?

To catch Renault,Spec 5 or Spec 6(if they have the plan) would be more realistic.

[Quickshifter]

Is this the one to be at par with Renault?

 

Mexico

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Is this the one to be at par with Renault?

Who said that?

[argiriano]

 

[mclarensmps]

I'd just like to point out that I will continue to ignore the Autosport main page, and come straight to the forums until such time that they stop the clickbait headlines. I made the mistake of getting on the main page from my phone today

[Sebastien007]

http://www.mclaren.c...-free-practice/

[Rudex]

Hasegawa https://www.motorspo...ine-spa-944753/

 

"We had planned to introduce 'spec 4' here but we failed, we didn't match our schedule," said Hasegawa. "We're halfway through our upgrade so we called it 3.5 and 3.6."

Honda feels the upgrade has boosted performance, but Hasegawa said the gain was difficult to quantify given this is the first circuit it has run on.

"It's difficult to compare the previous engine to this engine because it's a different circuit," he said. "From the data point of view, we see a good update of the performance here."

[Quickshifter]

[Alonsofan007]

Wow... Zak sitting right next to hasegawa and still won't committ to Honda even tho it appears they don't have anyother choice. Things are worse than some people are making it out to be here.

[KnucklesAgain]

Wow... Zak sitting right next to hasegawa and still won't committ to Honda even tho it appears they don't have anyother choice. Things are worse than some people are making it out to be here.

It would be weird to commit just because they are sitting next to each other while talking to Renault.

[Alonsofan007]

It would be weird to commit just because they are sitting next to each other while talking to Renault.

point is they are not committinng while people here have been saying nothing to read into it they are together and no need for confirmation .....blah blah....

[KnucklesAgain]

point is they are not committinng while people here have been saying nothing to read into it they are together and no need for confirmation .....blah blah....

 

I dunno, they obviously never confirmed a commitment. That some people believe that they eventually will is arguable. I don't see what difference it makes that they sit at the same desk

[Alonsofan007]

I dunno, they obviously never confirmed a commitment. That some people believe that they eventually will is arguable. I don't see what difference it makes that they sit at the same desk

me neither, but looks like you found that part most important

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

point is they are not committinng while people here have been saying nothing to read into it they are together and no need for confirmation .....blah blah....

IMO, It is all about putting pressure on Honda to fast track their operation and It is not surprising. All in all, It is normal to discuss with other manufacturers to asses other options but how serious the discussions were, is the question mark which makes me to believe it is all about putting pressure on Honda do their utmost.

[KnucklesAgain]

me neither, but looks like you found that part most important

Can't possibly have anything to do with you making a big thing out of it.

All I'm saying is that it isn't

[pdac]

IMO, It is all about putting pressure on Honda to fast track their operation and It is not surprising. All in all, It is normal to discuss with other manufacturers to asses other options but how serious the discussions were, is the question mark which makes me to believe it is all about putting pressure on Honda do their utmost.

 

I think so too. I think this has been the case for a while. However, the problem is, in Hasegawa's words: "We had planned to introduce 'spec 4' here but we failed, we didn't match our schedule". And that kind of sums up the biggest issue for McLaren.

[mcfield]

OK,also confirmed by japanese media.
https://headlines.ya...6-nksports-moto
 
Hasegawa:I think its worth 0.1s,its a step between Spec 3 and Spec 4.
The japanese journalist also said honda was working on Spec 4 engine currently,but they didnt complete it yet.So they introduced the Spec 3.5 here.
The upgrade seems to be intake system again.
Stoffel's new ICE is mainly a reliability update.
The Spec 4 engine will birng a improved ICE.
 
Edit:The japanese journalist also pointed though hasegawa san said its worth 0.1s,a Honda insider said in different way.
The honda insider said the upgrade would not bring 10kw gains,its not that big,but also would not be a very small one.

What a joke Honda are. An upgrade of just 0.1s at the longest circuit of the year and the most dependent on engine power. Honda get out of F1.

[Alonsofan007]

Can't possibly have anything to do with you making a big thing out of it.

All I'm saying is that it isn't

ya i am the one making it a big thing ...   

[shonguiz]

Hasegawa https://www.motorspo...ine-spa-944753/

 

"We had planned to introduce 'spec 4' here but we failed, we didn't match our schedule," said Hasegawa. "We're halfway through our upgrade so we called it 3.5 and 3.6."

Honda feels the upgrade has boosted performance, but Hasegawa said the gain was difficult to quantify given this is the first circuit it has run on.

"It's difficult to compare the previous engine to this engine because it's a different circuit," he said. "From the data point of view, we see a good update of the performance here."

Why did they bother introduce it and get a ziliion penalties then ? Why didn't they wait a gp or two to get it ready and then take the penalties, it's not as if 1tenth improvement would change anything in power circuit like Spa.

[Alonsofan007]

IMO, It is all about putting pressure on Honda to fast track their operation and It is not surprising. All in all, It is normal to discuss with other manufacturers to asses other options but how serious the discussions were, is the question mark which makes me to believe it is all about putting pressure on Honda do their utmost.

 

exactly the question, coz people have been saying it would be easy commit esp when 100mil$ and free engines are involved, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[nemanja]

Why did they bother introduce it and get a ziliion penalties then ? Why didn't they wait a gp or two to get it ready and then take the penalties, it's not as if 1tenth improvement would change anything in power circuit like Spa.

Because they are running out of time with Alonso.

[pup]

Serious question - has Honda even once over the past three seasons introduced an upgrade that wasn't described as 'not as much as we were hoping for'?

[Alonsofan007]

Serious question - has Honda even once over the past three seasons introduced an upgrade that wasn't described as 'not as much as we were hoping for'?

wow ... now that you mention it, i don't think so.

[TF110]

Until they match or exceed Mercedes, no upgrade should be as much as they hoped for.

Edited by TF110, 26 August 2017 - 02:07.

[Alonsofan007]

ya those dialogues work in every scenario  , pup's question is different.

[Rudex]

from japanese media

https://headlines.ya...6-nksports-moto

 

- Seems They tested resonance and vibrations and it was good with this new upgrade.

- The improvement is in low end range, improving the torque and driviability and in this circuit is it no felt by drivers. No peak power increase, this upgrade is to improve low end torque.

- In other circuits it will be noticed more with increase in corners.

 

I hope the spec4 will bring more power. We need more power.

It is good they bring with upgrades so they can confirm each step and put the next iteration parts with security and the main time spending in improve the power having a reliable engine.

Edited by Rudex, 26 August 2017 - 07:05.

[Paul Parker]

Because they are running out of time with Alonso.

 

I made this point about JB long ago and later Alonso, it was inevitable given the problems.

 

Button's F1 career came to a sorry end after struggling with firstly an average car and then far worse, the uncompetitive and unreliable Honda powered cars, thus Alonso whose F1 career has been similarily torpedoed.

 

Neither of them could afford to waste time at their age and this is the inevitable consequence, presumably they tolerated this due to the money, especially Alonso whose generous wages probably ameliorate some of the disappointments.

 

It doesn't stop there either, what of Vandoorne's future knowing how fickle and unfair F1 can be, he needs to get his bum in a properly competitive car and soon otherwise he too might suffer the same fate despite his relative youth.

[argiriano]

improvement or not McLaren-Honda are still too far back so I hope for a wet weekend

 

[rabbitleader]

Has Honda made any significant change to the ICE in the past three years? My impression from here has been that most upgrades have been to configurations and components such as compressor turbo MGU-H and the reliability issues that have followed. I was hoping this year would bring pre combustion ignition and a jump in performance. Is everyone hoping for this to happen in spec 4 upgrade?

Edited by rabbitleader, 26 August 2017 - 07:15.

[sopa]

Until they match or exceed Mercedes, no upgrade should be as much as they hoped for.

 

An upgrade matching Renault would be a good start though. Even this has remained a long shot throughout the 3 years.

[Rudex]

More:

 

 

At the Belgian Grand Prix in the opening round of the summer vacation, Honda launched a separate power update unit for the two drivers. Fernando Alonso is an improved specification 3.5 for parts other than the engine body 3.5. In addition to the same improvements as Alonso, SV is spec 3.6 that also improved the engine itself.

Improvement of the engine body is mainly improvement of reliability, while improvements of parts other than the engine body are aimed at improving performance. Specifically, what improved?

"The improvement of this time raised the torque in the low speed range, the power of one mini vehicle is raised in terms of low speed torque," Yusuke Hasegawa chief manager Honda F1 says.

The low speed corner at the spa is about 1 corner and the last corner. After free practice, general manager Hasegawa also laughed, "From the driver I was told that" I do not know the difference so much at the spa. "

 

So why did Honda introduce a power unit with specifications raising the torque in the low speed region to the spa of the high speed circuit? It is because I had a bitter experience with the start of the previous Hungarian Grand Prix.

Alonso started from 7th in Hungary GP. Although the response at the start was not bad, the acceleration after that did not grow, and it was ended up by Carlos Saints Jr. who started from ninth in the first corner. Because I overtook after the first pit stop, I got a story but it was the result of revealing weak points at the start.

"As the torque in the low speed region rises, the timing of the shift-up also changes, which will lead to a more smooth acceleration, and I wanted to confirm the improvement of that part on Friday's free practice," he said.

In fact, Friday's free practice was "a rare, completely problem free day" (general manager Hasegawa). "It's nice to rate performance on Friday's race so I can not say it at all, but it was good that I finished running at least with no problems, not only was there no trouble, but problems with driver rity, such as oscillation ( It is positive to not being bothered by such as resonance etc. "

The second half of the second run of free practice was the first day of Belgian Grand Prix rain. While everyone was waiting at the pit garage, it was Daniel Ricardo and Alonso who were in the course. Ricardo spun, Alonso returned without any problems. I think that torque up in the low speed region was supporting smooth driving by Alonso in the rain.

The Belgian Grand Prix will be held during spa and weather when it will rain. For two drivers, Honda's update may be a big support besides the start.

 

So, it seems They improving the torque at low range the shiifup are more smooth and it improves the acceleration, less vibrations from engine, better start of races and it will noticed in low corners in the next races.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

So, it seems They improving the torque at low range the shiifup are more smooth and it improves the acceleration, less vibrations from engine, better start of races and it will noticed in low corners in the next races.

Perhaps it was the reason they sent out Fernando Alonso in wet conditions.

Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 26 August 2017 - 07:40.

[damager21]

2 secs down on Hamilton is disappointing but 0.3 sec down on Hulk is rather encouraging. Honda is down on power as compared to Renault and they are ever so close to be the fourth best team. Hopefully Spec 4 engine delivers a decent power upgrade and McLaren Honda becomes the fourth best team on grid. That's all we can salvage and hope for this season 

[KnucklesAgain]

ya i am the one making it a big thing ...   

 

It was the only point of your post, man.

 

 

Wow... Zak sitting right next to hasegawa and still won't committ to Honda even tho it appears they don't have anyother choice. Things are worse than some people are making it out to be here.

[KnucklesAgain]

Why did they bother introduce it and get a ziliion penalties then ? Why didn't they wait a gp or two to get it ready and then take the penalties, it's not as if 1tenth improvement would change anything in power circuit like Spa.

 

Track testing and finding problems early. Anyway it's exactly what nearly everyone here wanted, so

[SwadF1]

Yes 4th best is the maximum possible this year. Let's see if Honda can bring the update

[Hamm]

carlos miquel‏ @carlosmiquelf1

El motor 3.6 de Vandoorne tenía "problemas potenciales". Se lo cambian y vuelven al 3.5. Otros 25 puestos en parrilla para el belga

 

The engine 3.6 of Vandoorne had "potential problems". They change it and return to 3.5. Another 25 positions in broiler for the Belgian

[lio007]

Troubles again...

https://www.motorspo...spa-945005/?s=1

[Hamm]

Andrew Benson

Re Alonso/Williams and arguably the tastiest driver-market rumour of the summer so far http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/formula1/40612338?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=59a134fbe4b0f17601aea595%26Alonso%20to%20Williams%3F%26&ns_fee=0#post_59a134fbe4b0f17601aea595 …