1867 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Please continue discussing the ins & outs of the 2017 Mercedes challenger in here.

[f1paul]

Yeah win innit.

[f1paul]

 

   

[SR388]

I have a love -hate relationship with the car.

[SonGoku]

Allison needs to order 24h shifts and rapid developments before Singapore, otherwise we all know the outcome.

[ArrowsLivery]

It does not look good. Mercedes are rapidly losing the development race.

[lewislorenzo]

any news on new developments

[FrankRoot]

It does not look good. Mercedes are rapidly losing the development race.

But unfortunately (for the Red guys and their supporters), cars are not yet at the development stage of being self-driving. Fortunate for the white guys, there's a driver in the cars. 

[xtremeclock]

But unfortunately (for the Red guys and their supporters), cars are not yet at the development stage of being self-driving. Fortunate for the white guys, there's a driver in the cars. 

 

I'm pretty sure Ferrari and Mercedes are happy with how their leading drivers are performing. 

 

It's all about grabbing a good result in tracks that don't suit them (Spa/Monza for Vettel, Singapore for Hamilton).

Edited by xtremeclock, 27 August 2017 - 15:09.

[AmonGods]

I have never seen so many fans upset after their team won 

I didnt expect Merc to pull another Silverstone on Ferrari, I think that was a one off, both teams are close, so every win is gonna be hard fought.

[ToniF1]

 

 

https://twitter.com/...814638668644352

[w1Y]

Seems to me Merc are suffering the same problem and reason Ferrari got annoyed with Allison.

Updates aren't coming quick enough.

Lewis and vettel made the difference today and if either of them was swapped with Bottas or Kimi then the other would have had an easier day.

Edited by w1Y, 27 August 2017 - 16:22.

[w1Y]

Oh and in on part 2.





Needed to follow

[GoldenColt]

I'm worried about their rate of development on this car. Reminds me of the Ferrari approach last season, while for some reason Ferrari are going for the previous Mercedes way.

[P123]

I'm worried about their rate of development on this car. Reminds me of the Ferrari approach last season, while for some reason Ferrari are going for the previous Mercedes way.

I don't agree. Remember that this car was born wit ha few issues, especially tyre management early on. Too many are being led by Silverstone, which was an anomaly. It was more a case of Ferrari being particularly bad that weekend. If Bahrain and Spain came after Silverstone, the same folks who proclaimed Spa being an easy Merc win based purely on Silverstone would have been shouting the same for those two tracks, yet we know how those races went. So far Ferrari has been on balance the car to have on race day during the season. Today the Merc, on harder tyres, spanked it in the mid-sector in the closing laps, which was crucial.

The thing that Merc needs to improve on is it's traction out of slow corners. Ferrari eats it for breakfast there, and that could be pivotal in Monza in handing the advantage to Ferrari.

[TomNokoe]

Mercedes were not particularly strong at Spa last year. One race at a time.

[OO7]

 

 

https://twitter.com/...814638668644352

Too much Ferrari in that picture.  If someone could airbrush it out, Mark would really appreciate that.

Edited by OO7, 27 August 2017 - 18:16.

[MasterOfCoin]

Please continue discussing the ins & outs of the 2017 Mercedes challenger in here.

Should the "part 2" should be in German like in the Ferrari SF70H thread?....

[Risil]

Should the "part 2" should be in German like in the Ferrari SF70H thread?....

 

I considered that but thought it might be unfair on the good folks in Brackley and Brixworth.

[MasterOfCoin]

I considered that but thought it might be unfair on the good folks in Brackley and Brixworth.

Perfectly understandable...

[Marklar]

Hamilton would have gone for a 2 stopper either way because he had blisters on his tyres. It was a risk, because they didnt knew if Vettel would have done the same.Wolff also revealed that they went for a low-downforce set-up which compromised their qualifying pace (lol) but made them faster on the straights. The Mercedes engine is also more flexible than the Ferrari engine. The Mercedes can use up the whole power on the straights, while the Ferrari is deploying the extra power spread over the whole lap, which caused Vettel to run out of extra power before the end of the straight.

 

http://www.auto-moto...n-12474177.html

[andrewf1]

 

Too much Ferrari in that picture.  If someone could airbrush it out, Mark would really appreciate that.

 

What do you mean? I don't see any Ferrari there.

[lewislorenzo]

I think Monza will be close with Ferrari but lewis is a beast around there...just needs a good start  

[Kvothe]

I think Monza will be close with Ferrari but lewis is a beast around there...just needs a good start

Yes he always finds something extra through the lesmos. I reckon this year due to the regulation changes he'll be able to carry an insane amount of speed through there.

[PAGATRON]

He also needs Bottas up there with him to keep him in check and put pressure on Vettel.

[CountDooku]

What do you mean? I don't see any Ferrari there.

Looooool. I see what you did there.

[f1kent83]

http://www.motorspor...and-prix-report

Mercedes had worked away all weekend at a little tweak to the ers-K mapping. On a normal lap, the electrical energy boost cuts out some way short of the end of Kemmel straight. Keeping it deployed for the last 10 per cent or so of that straight yields hardly any lap time. As it is limited, it’s far better to save it for use where it will deliver greater lap time gain – like the exit of Pouhon, for example. That’s the conventional way of setting up such a system at Spa, and that’s why Vettel’s engine de-rated towards the end of the straight. But Mercedes had a setting that allowed its drivers to override that cut-out at the crucial moment such as this – and that’s why Hamilton’s extra grunt kept coming as Vettel’s ran out. On such details can races be won.

[OO7]

Hamilton would have gone for a 2 stopper either way because he had blisters on his tyres. It was a risk, because they didnt knew if Vettel would have done the same.Wolff also revealed that they went for a low-downforce set-up which compromised their qualifying pace (lol) but made them faster on the straights. The Mercedes engine is also more flexible than the Ferrari engine. The Mercedes can use up the whole power on the straights, while the Ferrari is deploying the extra power spread over the whole lap, which caused Vettel to run out of extra power before the end of the straight.

 

http://www.auto-moto...n-12474177.html

The low downforce was visually apparent when comparing the Mercedes with the Ferrari.  The Ferrari's rear wing had a larger frontal area particularly around the central, spoon section.

[OO7]

What do you mean? I don't see any Ferrari there.

Excellent work Andrew.

[FrankRoot]

I don't agree. Remember that this car was born wit ha few issues, especially tyre management early on. Too many are being led by Silverstone, which was an anomaly. It was more a case of Ferrari being particularly bad that weekend. If Bahrain and Spain came after Silverstone, the same folks who proclaimed Spa being an easy Merc win based purely on Silverstone would have been shouting the same for those two tracks, yet we know how those races went. So far Ferrari has been on balance the car to have on race day during the season. Today the Merc, on harder tyres, spanked it in the mid-sector in the closing laps, which was crucial.

The thing that Merc needs to improve on is it's traction out of slow corners. Ferrari eats it for breakfast there, and that could be pivotal in Monza in handing the advantage to Ferrari.

In the closing laps, being on harder tyres was actually a sizeable advantage. Softer are better only for a very few initial laps. Plus being in front gives you the huge advantage of moving in clean air. Only comparison that makes sense is overall lap times. If the trailing one is able to stay in the exhausts of the preceding one, it means that he is faster, and would quite easily pull away if he managed to overtake.

[Claudiu]

I think we can all agree that Ferrari were faster than anyone expected. While we lost the race in the end the speed of my team gives me great reason for being optimistic about the final stint of the championship!

Spa should be the best track for you guys and we gave you a good run for the win.

Bring on Monza.

[MasterOfCoin]

Merc should be strong through Ascari and Parabolica.....

[kernel]

Merc should be strong through Ascari and Parabolica.....

 

Mark Hughes disagrees with you. Says in the comment to the Spa report that Ferrari will be better under braking and faster through corners but will lose "a lot of time" on the long straights.

 

Hughes also states that Ferrari (and RBR to some extent) have been able to carry more speed through the fast corners than Mercedes.

 

Hughes also thinks Malaysia will be a Ferrari track.

 

Mercedes, as I predicted, has been outdeveloped on the chassis/aero side. They really need to either develop the car, or commit all resources to fixing the W08's flaws for the W09 and pray they can still salvage the WCC for this year...

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

IMO, Mercedes will be much better in Monza and they need to make sure both of their cars finish 1 & 2. It is CRUCIAL.

[Marklar]

I have to apologize to the Ferrari thread. The Mercedes thread has the same swingometer and gloom and doom thinking now 

Edited by Marklar, 28 August 2017 - 13:05.

[kernel]

I have to apologize to the Ferrari thread. The Mercedes thread has the same swingometer and gloom and doom thinking now 

 

Lewis was relatively downbeat yesterday realizing how close Ferrari was all weekend. It's fine being happy at the win and pole, but ultimately, Ferrari will be stretching its legs over the next few GPs unless Mercedes decides to bring upgrades to the car. 

Edited by kernel, 28 August 2017 - 13:25.

[andrewf1]

Mark Hughes disagrees with you. Says in the comment to the Spa report that Ferrari will be better under braking and faster through corners but will lose "a lot of time" on the long straights.

 

Hughes also states that Ferrari (and RBR to some extent) have been able to carry more speed through the fast corners than Mercedes.

 

Hughes also thinks Malaysia will be a Ferrari track.

 

Mercedes, as I predicted, has been outdeveloped on the chassis/aero side. They really need to either develop the car, or commit all resources to fixing the W08's flaws for the W09 and pray they can still salvage the WCC for this year...

 

And how does he explain Silverstone and S2 from Spa where nobody but Vettel could get within half a second of Lewis' sector time?

[SonGoku]

I don't see big updates, big changes, also Lewis when asked in interviews confirmed they did nothing to prepare something for Singapore. Shocking. 

[kernel]

And how does he explain Silverstone and S2 from Spa where nobody but Vettel could get within half a second of Lewis' sector time?

 

Maybe not all corners, but a few corners in particular. Notably Pouhon which Ferrari had been taking flat out since Friday practice (whereas Lewis only took it flat on his last Q3 lap), and Paul Frere where RBR and Ferrari were 2kph faster at the apex.

 

Also, Ferrari was much more comfortable under braking at Rivage as well.

 

My guess is that Lewis was faster through S2 mostly due to additional grunt from the engine.

 

Silverstone is irrelevant has Ferrari has a different, and much improved chassis now.

Edited by kernel, 28 August 2017 - 13:30.

[ArrowsLivery]

Lewis was relatively downbeat yesterday realizing how close Ferrari was all weekend. It's fine being happy at the win and pole, but ultimately, Ferrari will be stretching its legs over the next few GPs unless Mercedes decides to bring upgrades to the car.

Ferrari stretching their legs? You must have forgotten that they've only won once in the past few months.

Edited by ArrowsLivery, 28 August 2017 - 13:53.

[Synkro89]

My god some of the comments on here. Were talking about a championship winning team that has had great in season development these last few years and now its panic because ferrari were on there tails at our " Track ". Typical spoilt syndrome because they have competition and now we dont have the car to compete lool. Yes our car can be a diva but you cant have upgrades every race without understanding your current package. It will ebb and flow all season just like previous races. We just have to hope they can counter something when Ferrari bring there updated package wether thats upgrades or setup . We have some great technical people in our team and believe we can win most of the remaining races that are catered to the W08's traits .A track like Singapore where Lewis/Merc need to finish right behind Vettel/Ferrari. Every point will count and when the cars not up to it Lewis has to finish behind the redboys or in front of Kimi lol.

Edited by Synkro89, 28 August 2017 - 14:16.

[Jordan44]

Apparently Mercedes will have to comply with the new oil limit in Monza despite what the team believed and them taking the engine tactically at Spa. Charlie Whiting has allegedly used the rule which means customer engines and factory engines must be the same spec in order to force them to comply. I think we are in deep trouble because it looks like the oil burning in qualifying may now be over and Ferrari have a new upgraded engine suspected to bring considerable horsepower.

[Counterbalance]

Mercedes, as I predicted, has been outdeveloped on the chassis/aero side. They really need to either develop the car, or commit all resources to fixing the W08's flaws for the W09 and pray they can still salvage the WCC for this year...

You do realise that for all it's flaws, the W08 is still kicking your beloved Ferrari's arse? Leading the WCC, and seven wins to four in it's favour.

Sure, the car needs work, but when you start throwing words like "salvage" and "pray" into a post when the team you're talking about is actually beating your favourites, you look a bit like a glorified cheerleader and detract from any good points you may actually make.

[Claudiu]

Invoking the divinity already is something which even our forum section failed to do even at times of greatest sadness LOL

[andrewf1]

Apparently Mercedes will have to comply with the new oil limit in Monza despite what the team believed and them taking the engine tactically at Spa. Charlie Whiting has allegedly used the rule which means customer engines and factory engines must be the same spec in order to force them to comply. I think we are in deep trouble because it looks like the oil burning in qualifying may now be over and Ferrari have a new upgraded engine suspected to bring considerable horsepower.

 

Despite what the team believed? Where did you get that from? On the contrary, they knew this was going to happen and even fooled Ferrari. 

[Jordan44]

Despite what the team believed? Where did you get that from? On the contrary, they knew this was going to happen and even fooled Ferrari. 

 

The team believed that the new oil limit wouldn't apply to them because they took the engine in Spa. This is what was reported in the press before the race weekend.

[xtremeclock]

Apparently Mercedes will have to comply with the new oil limit in Monza despite what the team believed and them taking the engine tactically at Spa. Charlie Whiting has allegedly used the rule which means customer engines and factory engines must be the same spec in order to force them to comply. I think we are in deep trouble because it looks like the oil burning in qualifying may now be over and Ferrari have a new upgraded engine suspected to bring considerable horsepower.

 

Wasn't Ferrari (since Canada) the team that took the biggest performance (engine) hit when the FIA started to take the "oilgate" very seriously ?

[Jordan44]

Wasn't Ferrari (since Canada) the team that took the biggest performance (engine) hit when the FIA started to take the "oilgate" very seriously ?

 

Yes, but it's stated that Mercedes are still doing it for a qualifying advantage.

[Counterbalance]

The team believed that the new oil limit wouldn't apply to them because they took the engine in Spa. This is what was reported in the press before the race weekend.

 

That's what I read, too. But it's Monza week, and you can't have Monza week without FIA politics if there's a tight championship involving Ferrari. Even Martin Brundle alluded to it in commentary during yesterday's race.

 

A link to the clarification would be handy, though, as it's news to me.

[andrewf1]

The team believed that the new oil limit wouldn't apply to them because they took the engine in Spa. This is what was reported in the press before the race weekend.

 

Yeah, that's what was reported in the press. I'm pretty sure however that they checked with the FIA well before-hand and built this engine upgrade around the new oil-limit. They're not idiots.