4262 replies to this topic

[muelte]

https://jp.motorspor...ルの浮上を警戒-959177/

Hasegawa confirmed the Spec 4 engine didnt meet the schedule because the ICE performance didnt reach the target.So they need more time to develop.They decided to introduce new engine in the recent races.Japan is possible but of course he dont want to take penalty in home race.If its the time they have to introduce new engine and the upgrade is not ready at that time,they may introduce the same Spec engine.

Hardly surprising

[shonguiz]

https://jp.motorspor...ルの浮上を警戒-959177/

Hasegawa confirmed the Spec 4 engine didnt meet the schedule because the ICE performance didnt reach the target.So they need more time to develop.They decided to introduce new engine in the recent races.Japan is possible but of course he dont want to take penalty in home race.If its the time they have to introduce new engine and the upgrade is not ready at that time,they may introduce the same Spec engine.

I really want to know how the **** they can come with a straight face everytime and say: "We know we have a good directiona and we are very confident that the upcoming developments will take us there, we need to make mclaren see this". When freaking time after time they dissapoint, they have **** design, **** testing, **** decision making. I have never wanted to believe it, but i think i have come to the realization that trully, they are crap organisation with a team of shitty engineers.

[MrRat]

I really want to know how the **** they can come with a straight face everytime and say: "We know we have a good directiona and we are very confident that the upcoming developments will take us there, we need to make mclaren see this". When freaking time after time they dissapoint, they have **** design, **** testing, **** decision making. I have never wanted to believe it, but i think i have come to the realization that trully, they are crap organisation with a team of shitty engineers.

The amount of times I have heard someone from Honda say "didn't meet the schedule" and "didn't meet the target" is STAGGERING .

[TF110]

If it were so easy to meet these targets and power goals, every engine on the grid would at least be on par with the Mercedes. Honda is way behind, but they are improving. Improving takes times, more so for Honda. I would think this because it's hard to poach higher level engineers from other teams when those other teams want to keep them out of the competition's hands. None of this is easy but Honda definitely need to do extra in order to compete or get competitive.

 

I wonder if McLaren will be able to stay towards the front this weekend. I think if it rains, they'll be in a good spot. I don't believe Mercedes is slower than Alonso though, but it'd be something else if he does out qualify them! 

Edited by TF110, 29 September 2017 - 18:24.

[MrRat]

If it were so easy to meet these targets and power goals, every engine on the grid would at least be on par with the Mercedes. Honda is way behind, but they are improving. Improving takes times, more so for Honda. I would think this because it's hard to poach higher level engineers from other teams when those other teams want to keep them out of the competition's hands. None of this is easy but Honda definitely need to do extra in order to compete or get competitive.

 

I wonder if McLaren will be able to stay towards the front this weekend. I think if it rains, they'll be in a good spot. I don't believe Mercedes is slower than Alonso though, but it'd be something else if he does out qualify them! 

They are called "targets" for a reason. They mean jackshit if you keep missing them.  We have heard about this magical spec since a long time now and then we get the good old "na na m8 we missed the target". It's kinda demoralizing, I wonder how the team feels.

But yeah LOL, if Alonso out qualifies Mercedes, imma dance naked      . I feel like McLaren will be p7-p10 if all goes well.

[Alonsofan007]

on the other hand, missing targets for 3 years every single time is impossible to do and still Honda managed it ...  

Edited by Alonsofan007, 29 September 2017 - 23:14.

[MastaKink]

If it were so easy to meet these targets and power goals, every engine on the grid would at least be on par with the Mercedes. Honda is way behind, but they are improving. Improving takes times, more so for Honda. I would think this because it's hard to poach higher level engineers from other teams when those other teams want to keep them out of the competition's hands. None of this is easy but Honda definitely need to do extra in order to compete or get competitive.

 

I wonder if McLaren will be able to stay towards the front this weekend. I think if it rains, they'll be in a good spot. I don't believe Mercedes is slower than Alonso though, but it'd be something else if he does out qualify them! 

 

Should've already happened in Singapore if that report about Alonso's quali mode going kaput on his last run of Q3 was true. Said it cost him 4ths and he was 3 and half tenths behind Bottas.

 

Singapore's the one that got away for a lot of reasons unfortunately. 

[baddog]

"McLaren's new Formula 1 aerodynamic upgrade package for the Malaysian Grand Prix encouraged racing director Eric Boullier, as Fernando Alonso finished fifth quickest in second practice"

 

But the chassis was already the best on the grid.. must be a second quicker than anything else now ;)

 

"We need to bring a significant amount of parts here," said Boullier.

 

"At every race, you need to cover the spares as well, and bargeboards are critical, especially when you run over kerbs.

 

"We have one spare and the plan is to upgrade Stoffel's car in Suzuka."

 

Rough on Stoffel not getting the new parts even though there is a spare, because a spare in the garage for Alonso is more important than a race part for Him.

[jwill189]

So was this supposed to be a developmental idea for next year that turned out so well that it was fitted on the car this week?  If so, that is highly encouraging!

[KnucklesAgain]

"McLaren's new Formula 1 aerodynamic upgrade package for the Malaysian Grand Prix encouraged racing director Eric Boullier, as Fernando Alonso finished fifth quickest in second practice"

 

But the chassis was already the best on the grid.. must be a second quicker than anything else now ;)

 

"We need to bring a significant amount of parts here," said Boullier.

 

"At every race, you need to cover the spares as well, and bargeboards are critical, especially when you run over kerbs.

 

"We have one spare and the plan is to upgrade Stoffel's car in Suzuka."

 

Rough on Stoffel not getting the new parts even though there is a spare, because a spare in the garage for Alonso is more important than a race part for Him.

 

It may not be possible to mount old parts if the new ones break, in which case they would have to decide which car will get them for the weekend

[MastaKink]

"McLaren's new Formula 1 aerodynamic upgrade package for the Malaysian Grand Prix encouraged racing director Eric Boullier, as Fernando Alonso finished fifth quickest in second practice"

 

But the chassis was already the best on the grid.. must be a second quicker than anything else now ;)

 

"We need to bring a significant amount of parts here," said Boullier.

 

"At every race, you need to cover the spares as well, and bargeboards are critical, especially when you run over kerbs.

 

"We have one spare and the plan is to upgrade Stoffel's car in Suzuka."

 

Rough on Stoffel not getting the new parts even though there is a spare, because a spare in the garage for Alonso is more important than a race part for Him.

 

Smartest thing to do to avoid another Monaco situation and receiving a penalty to change floor specs if Alonso's gets damaged. (Button had to give his to Stoff and took a penalty as there was only 2 of that spec and they gave them one each and SV binned it and broke his so I'm guessing this is to prevent a repeat)

 

They've alternated all year and it's Alonso's turn so it's not really rough at all.

[Alonsofan007]

at this point it is like its virtually done but still flavio saying alonso will stay

 

http://www.digisport...vio-Briatore-la

[hasika]

"McLaren's new Formula 1 aerodynamic upgrade package for the Malaysian Grand Prix encouraged racing director Eric Boullier, as Fernando Alonso finished fifth quickest in second practice"

 

But the chassis was already the best on the grid.. must be a second quicker than anything else now ;)

 

"We need to bring a significant amount of parts here," said Boullier.

 

"At every race, you need to cover the spares as well, and bargeboards are critical, especially when you run over kerbs.

 

"We have one spare and the plan is to upgrade Stoffel's car in Suzuka."

 

Rough on Stoffel not getting the new parts even though there is a spare, because a spare in the garage for Alonso is more important than a race part for Him.

Well,i think its just friday.I think its too early to say something.

[hasika]

The article i posted is a little hard to understand.

I think its more like that honda will introduce fresh engine in USGP or Mexico GP because of mileage management and penalty strategy,and the new engine will be Spec 4 or Spec 3.7 depends on the development schedule.The power unit will be used until the season ends.

Edited by hasika, 30 September 2017 - 01:55.

[Nova]

Going by track record, 3.7 it is. Would be nice though to see the long awaited and much missed 4.0, especially if it's all it's cracked up to be (by Honda) as most here are not cracking up anything

[TakataDomeNSX]

Now and only now, if they can consistently get 5th-6th after the floor upgrade will I actually totally tip my hat to them and say they have a Red Bull level or better than car, they would deserve this recognition. And that has to be consistent before the next PU upgrade.

Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 30 September 2017 - 05:17.

[MastaKink]

Now and only now, if they can consistently get 5th-6th after the floor upgrade will I actually totally tip my hat to them and say they have a Red Bull level or better than car, they would deserve this recognition. And that has to be consistent before the next PU upgrade.

 

It would need to be a good deal better than RB's to make up for the PU deficit to be fair so 5-6 is likely out of reach.

 

7-8 everywhere would be a great effort.

[TF110]

They are called "targets" for a reason. They mean jackshit if you keep missing them.  We have heard about this magical spec since a long time now and then we get the good old "na na m8 we missed the target". It's kinda demoralizing, I wonder how the team feels.

But yeah LOL, if Alonso out qualifies Mercedes, imma dance naked      . I feel like McLaren will be p7-p10 if all goes well.

I don't think they've hit their targets, but I don't believe they've missed every target. There's steps they have to take, even if painfully slow. For example, if they say they're going to make a step with spec 3.5 upgrade and they make that step, that's a hit target. The timing of it is what's bad. What I think is they're late to hit these targets because they left this engine late to get rolling. So maybe they were debating continuing with the previous iteration of engines that were used in 2015/2016 or if they didn't start the 2017 version (with the Mercedes style turbo etc.) until late, then everything they have planned as upgrades to the engine will be late. Then on top of that their dyno isn't doing what the track shows and it pushes upgrades/development even further back! What Honda needs is (too much) time but that doesn't work when you have McLaren who feel they should be at the front, sooner rather than later.

Edited by TF110, 30 September 2017 - 05:36.

[peroa]

"McLaren's new Formula 1 aerodynamic upgrade package for the Malaysian Grand Prix encouraged racing director Eric Boullier, as Fernando Alonso finished fifth quickest in second practice"

 

But the chassis was already the best on the grid.. must be a second quicker than anything else now ;)

 

"We need to bring a significant amount of parts here," said Boullier.

 

"At every race, you need to cover the spares as well, and bargeboards are critical, especially when you run over kerbs.

 

"We have one spare and the plan is to upgrade Stoffel's car in Suzuka."

 

Rough on Stoffel not getting the new parts even though there is a spare, because a spare in the garage for Alonso is more important than a race part for Him.

Why is it rough on Stoffel? lol, It's not like they're fighting for the WDC.

[TakataDomeNSX]

It would need to be a good deal better than RB's to make up for the PU deficit to be fair so 5-6 is likely out of reach.

 

7-8 everywhere would be a great effort.

 

Yep, thats why I carefully said "Red Bull level or better than"

[MastaKink]

Yep, thats why I carefully said "Red Bull level or better than"

 

It's the level bit that's the problem mate, it suggests we have at least an equal if not better PU than RB if we're beating them with level cars and while I've no interest in the mud slinging that goes on in here that's completely bonkers and we know it to the tune of €700m that McLaren gave up to swap them for. They literally could have a better car but still not get 5-6 if it's close enough so it just stood out as a way to avoid giving praise.

 

(Unless you think Alonso is far better than the RB drivers in which case I disagree but ignore me on the PU stuff). 

[TakataDomeNSX]

Don't read too much into it. At the moment we are still behind RB even in 5th. By saying we are RB level, that already alludes to the PU weakness.And just case there are extra sensitive types I threw in "or better than".

 

And yes, I would think Alonso is slightly better than the RB drivers skill-wise. Personality wise? Ho humm.

Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 30 September 2017 - 07:06.

[Quickshifter]

Horner said they are giving away more than half a second on straights.

Mclaren Honda have a 12kph deficit even without the opponents turning up their engines and this is what spec 3.7 SMH. McLaren are giving away at least a second and a half in terms of engine performance on this track in my opinion. Already looking forward to next season.

Edited by Quickshifter, 30 September 2017 - 07:10.

[argiriano]

https://jp.motorspor...ルの浮上を警戒-959177/

Hasegawa confirmed the Spec 4 engine didnt meet the schedule because the ICE performance didnt reach the target.So they need more time to develop.They decided to introduce new engine in the recent races.Japan is possible but of course he dont want to take penalty in home race.If its the time they have to introduce new engine and the upgrade is not ready at that time,they may introduce the same Spec engine.

 

This was the most frustrating thing the last 3 years - the biggest ICE manufacturer in the world to not be able to made an ICE that is remotely close to the competition. And the ICE is the one part of the PU that is in constant development for the whole time Honda decided to come back in F1 and they are still miles away even from their own targets. 

I really hope Honda will improve masively in the future, but I just can't see that happen without some real changes in their approach to F1. I don't care what the problems are but it just didn't work. 

[Quickshifter]

In one line...

 

If there is one MAJOR reason for this partnership breaking down, it is repeated missed deadlines from Honda.

Edited by Quickshifter, 30 September 2017 - 07:53.

[Mc_Silver]

In one line...

If there is one MAJOR reason for this partnership breaking down, it is repeated missed deadlines from Honda.

Simple as that.

[Treads]

In one line...

If there is one MAJOR reason for this partnership breaking down, it is repeated missed deadlines from Honda.

Yep. 100%.

Not aimed at you, but a general point I'm not sure everyone gets: In F1, a missed deadline is the same as a missed target. Because it's a race, both on and off the track. The target is essentially to add a certain amount of performance in a given timeframe. If you hit your targets late, everyone else on time, you are falling behind.

Edited by Treads, 30 September 2017 - 08:25.

[Danyy]

In one line...

If there is one MAJOR reason for this partnership breaking down, it is repeated missed deadlines from Honda.

If we were in the World Cup and it came down to penalty shoot outs Honda would be that guy who kicks the ball wayyyyy out the stadium lol

Edited by Danyy, 30 September 2017 - 08:52.

[Alonsofan007]

If we were in the World Cup and it came down to penalty shoot outs Honda would be that guy who kicks the ball wayyyyy out the stadium lol

...... every single time  

[vassilispapadop]

Not bad for Malaysian GP.  Both in Q3

[f1rules]

Had the year just started where they are now...
would love to have an idea what would be possible with a renault right now, the car seems to have a very good weekend and surprisingly vandoorne also very good

[vassilispapadop]

Had the year just started where they are now...
would love to have an idea what would be possible with a renault right now, the car seems to have a very good weekend and surprisingly vandoorne also very good

Vandoorne have raised his game lately. But it's more likely Alonso have given up on trying that hard

[kosmos]

Great job by Stoffel, expected more from Fernando with the new floor.

[Eruobodo]

Great job by Stoffel, expected more from Fernando with the new floor.

Is it possible the new floor did not deliver?

[CPR]

Hmm, I wonder if Fernando made a mistake in S3 on his final lap? He lost 0.2s to Stoffel that time but was normally faster in S3. I was wondering if he was going to be faster than Ocon. Oh well. Let's see what tomorrow brings.

 

This is kind of an average track so this result is quite nice. We were quite competitive in S2 until Q2 but come Q3 everyone turns it up and we get left for dust

Edited by CPR, 30 September 2017 - 10:06.

[SwadF1]

Impressive from van. Strange lack of pace from alo. Was there any issue?

[f1rules]

Exceptionel lap, vandoorne actually, really cant wait for next season with a real pu, with new motivation in the team, this years chassis is really not far of the best

[Quickshifter]

1.5 seconds from Pole on track with two long straights and 15kph deficit. Could have been fighting for front row today with a competitive power unit. The car is competitive on all kinds of corners, high, medium and low plus has exceptional composure under braking.

[Rudex]

Alonso says they will lost with the rest, since they have worst race pace.. .i suppose  in Q3 they have more power, and in races without great harvesting and fuel effciency they need to down the power and finally the race pace is worst than FI or Williams and even Renault.

 

I think Alo was faster than SV but Alo was not able to put the best sectors in the same lap.

Edited by Rudex, 30 September 2017 - 10:20.

[Quickshifter]

Vandoorne, what an effort especially as this is the first time he has driven this track.

[Quickshifter]

Alonso says they will lost with the rest, since they have worst race pace.. .i suppose in Q3 they have more power, and in races without great harvesting and fuel effciency they need to down the power and finally the race pace is worst than FI or Williams and even Renault.

I think Alo was faster than SV but Alo was not able to put the best sectors in the same lap.

Yup Alonso was quicker in individual sectors but Vandoorne drove an immaculate lap overall. Full credit to Vandoorne for piecing together a fine lap without mistakes.

Edited by Quickshifter, 30 September 2017 - 10:22.

[Joseki]

Fernando was faster than Stoffel in sector 1 and sector 2, faster than Ocon too, but he lost everything in sector 3. That said, nice performance from Stoffel, now it's the second time he beat Alonso (excluding Monza were Fernando wasn't allowed to fight). 

[tifosii]

the chassis is really fantasitic.
i just wonder how much time they lost because of engine.
they maybe right at the front with a proper engine.next year will be a good year

[argiriano]

Great result today!

Stoff really delivers lately (from Austria onwards there is a steady improvement in his performances   ) but I guess Nando made a mistake in S3 on his last lap, just like Max did in his first attempt on the exit of the penultimate corner.

Nevertheless great achievement for the team. 

[Joseki]

I have the feeling that the "new" philosophy of the McLarens since 2015 works really well on this track, they overperformed last year too.

[argiriano]

...

 

This is kind of an average track so this result is quite nice. We were quite competitive in S2 until Q2 but come Q3 everyone turns it up and we get left for dust

Yep, in Q2 Nando actually recorded fastst speed of all in S2 but then in Q3 Hulk turned up his not-so-good Renault engine and went almost half a second clear of both McLaren-Hondas in S1 alone. Still, Stoff manage to beat him in the end... I will leave everyone to make their own conclusions. 

[muelte]

Is rain expected for race?

[Joseki]

[CPR]

Is rain expected for race?

 

Small chance of rain tomorrow from what I can see currently.

[pdac]

Going by track record, 3.7 it is. Would be nice though to see the long awaited and much missed 4.0, especially if it's all it's cracked up to be (by Honda) as most here are not cracking up anything

 

Spec 4.0 is a mythical beast and no one knows where to look for it. They've thought they might find it in several places in the world this year, but they only ever found spec 3's. Now they're hoping it might be on the North American continent somewhere, but who knows, maybe it just does not exist.