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#1 JtP2

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 22:46

I was watching the 1973 British GP on Youtube. Why could they not get the replacement front wheel to fit on Lauda's BRM



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#2 group7

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 00:25

From Motorsport Magazine January 1998, Lauda recalls the '73 Brit GP, mentions having to change tires twice, somewhere else I read he had a drive shaft failure on the start and was hit from behind by Oliver's Shadow,  both were out on the spot, but because of the Scheckter crash, there was time to repair the BRM. perhaps this brought on the wheel changing problems ?

 

https://www.motorspo...1973-british-gp


Edited by group7, 06 January 2018 - 00:32.


#3 B Squared

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:04

JtP2 - are you saying that Lauda never rejoined the track and this was a late pit stop or that he finally rejoined after the troubles with fitting the wheel?

From Automobile Year 21; This confirms group7's note on the broken driveshaft, plus Lauda stopping on lap 24 for a puncture and then stopping again on lap 35 for a check on his BRM's down-on-power engine. He is listed as 12th in the results with 63 of 67 laps completed - two laps behind Beuttler in 11th and two laps ahead of Opel in 13th. Possibly with the distances between his direct competitors they called it a day, or like his blocked pit exit late in the 1975 1974 race, he simply couldn't get back out on the track.

 

edit: wrong year - thanks jw


Edited by B Squared, 11 January 2018 - 11:38.


#4 john winfield

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 14:16

Brian, the troublesome pit stop was mid-way through the restarted race. (24.50 in the highlights). BRM must have eventually sorted the car's front left for him to finish only four laps behind the leader. Niki was very impressive early on, snatching second at the start, and doing his best to stay with the top teams. But he clearly had tyre problems, gradually fell back and, right in front of us at Club, had a huge tyre smoking spin, which probably led to one of his stops. From the footage it looks as if two replacement wheels won't locate. Barry Gill refers to the front left tyre looking 'shredded' so perhaps running with damaged rubber has caused slight damage to the wheel mountings. (The infamous blocked pit lane race was 1974 by the way, at Brands. But you knew that.  :wave: )

 



#5 B Squared

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 14:27

The infamous blocked pit lane race was 1974 by the way, at Brands. But you knew that.  :wave: )

Well, that's embarrassing :blush: At least I got the country right, thanks John.



#6 john winfield

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 20:11

Well, that's embarrassing :blush: At least I got the country right, thanks John.

 

I've just remembered something. In 1975 I was watching from Copse, the first corner at Silverstone. Lauda had wheel change problems yet again - three years in a row!  He was going well in the Ferrari 312T and changing weather conditions led to him and others needing a tyre change. I think the Ferrari mechanics left a wheel loose forcing Niki to drive a complete, slow lap before having the problem sorted.  This blunder, and Regga spinning at Club when leading, cost Ferrari a possible win. Curses. :well:



#7 Bonde

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 20:15

In the brilliant GP coverage in the Youtube link, did any of you notice frequently audible tyre squealing over the engine sounds through the corners?

 

Having seen - and heard - the footage of the 1973 German Grand Prix on Youtube https://www.youtube....h?v=x0jHxctP-rM, it struck me that of the Tyrrell Twins, I often noticed Stewart's tyres squealing, but never or rarely Cevert's. Has anybody else noticed this?


Edited by Bonde, 06 January 2018 - 20:16.


#8 JtP2

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 20:17

Yes John, that's the incident "the front left change about lap 24" They only show the 2 attempts of trying to fit 2 different front wheels, but neither seem to locate. BRM beginning their slide into oblivium, by bring 2 different sets of non interchangeable wheels? One for Doug N perhaps or DSJ at the time?



#9 E1pix

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 21:38

In the brilliant GP coverage in the Youtube link, did any of you notice frequently audible tyre squealing over the engine sounds through the corners?

 

From SuperSwede, Yes!  :up:



#10 Bonde

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 23:49

Even with the beginning demise of the real road courses, wasn't that disused airfield just a spectacular place in 1973 compared with the fare we're served today? Chicane-less Woodcote balls-out, car absolutely on the limit, bumpy surface, suspension movement, huge cross-ply tyre growth, just agriculture right up to the tarmac, Mad Ronald et al practicing their spectacular art visibly on the edge - and an exiting race with a close finish, to boot.

 

Speaking of tyre growth, it's one of the things (amongst many) that I also enjoy about still photos from the seventies and earlier: The tyre diameter growth and tread crowning in themselves convey an image of great speed when seen from any angle, even if there's no blurring of the track and background. (so, too, did the sparks and wing vortices of the eighties...) 


Edited by Bonde, 06 January 2018 - 23:49.


#11 E1pix

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:42

Pleasure to read your memories.  :up:

 

The race in question is one of my favorites on YouTube. Seen it ten times and it never tires.



#12 john winfield

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:51

Yes John, that's the incident "the front left change about lap 24" They only show the 2 attempts of trying to fit 2 different front wheels, but neither seem to locate. BRM beginning their slide into oblivium, by bring 2 different sets of non interchangeable wheels? One for Doug N perhaps or DSJ at the time?

 

I had a quick read through DSJ's GP report in the August 1973 MS but there's no further explanation. Not sure what Autosport and Motoring News had to say.



#13 john winfield

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:09

Even with the beginning demise of the real road courses, wasn't that disused airfield just a spectacular place in 1973 compared with the fare we're served today? Chicane-less Woodcote balls-out, car absolutely on the limit, bumpy surface, suspension movement, huge cross-ply tyre growth, just agriculture right up to the tarmac, Mad Ronald et al practicing their spectacular art visibly on the edge - and an exiting race with a close finish, to boot.

 

 

 

Quite agree Bonde. You're right on all counts. 

I'm grateful to 'Fastlane' for posting the highlights on Youtube because it reminded me what a good race it was after the restart. That's something I miss today too, a race developing, gaps opening and closing, leaders being hunted down and overtaken, in part because there were no planned tyre stops. Those tyres were hard wearing but they went off, and drivers had to manage this without the luxury of multiple sets of spare tyres, and a well-trained pit crew. 

Seeing the gap Ronnie had on the rest, after he'd encouraged JYS to try his hand at farming, you wouldn't think the chasing pack would reel him in. But they did, and Hunt caught them, nipping ahead of Hulme for a while, but all the time Revson seemed in control, pacing everything quite perfectly. I wonder whether Fittipaldi would have been able to hold off the McLaren if his JPS Lotus had held together.



#14 Tim Murray

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:35

Not sure what Autosport and Motoring News had to say.


Pete Lyons in Autosport reported Lauda stopping twice for tyres, but nothing more. Alan Henry in Motoring News mentioned only one tyre stop, noting that it cost Niki three laps, but with no further explanation.

#15 ensign14

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:56

In the brilliant GP coverage in the Youtube link, did any of you notice frequently audible tyre squealing over the engine sounds through the corners?

 

H

 

What do you mean "brilliant"?  They were at least 30mph slower than today's cars and were all over the place in the corners, sliding and fighting for grip.  Who wants to see that rather than the Scalextric levels of tyre maintenance?

 

More seriously, there were things I had never known until seeing that footage:

 

1. who the hell managed to paint CLAY REGAZZONI in best tifoso style on the starting straight?;

 

2. I never realized how close it was to a major disaster with Jackie and Ronnie still balls-out until within sight of the carambolage;

 

3. I also never realized how mad it was to start the race there, on a corner, as was proved with the startline shunt after Oliver stalled;

 

4. Raymond Baxter was quite good at calling the Lotus "JPS" as per Chapman's instructions.



#16 Nick Planas

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:29

 

 

4. Raymond Baxter was quite good at calling the Lotus "JPS" as per Chapman's instructions.

...but still couldn't decide whether to say Jody or Yody or Zhody Scheckter... it changed three times in the space of a minute! I do like his style, but I've also found an old karting commentary of his which included a young Yenson Button   :rotfl:

 

Whatever else people may think about dear old Murray Walker, (and I am a fan of his) he DID do his research on every driver before every race, and that included how they would say their name. 



#17 retriever

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 13:16

I was there in 1973 on the spectator embankment into Woodcote, . A great day's racing despite the pile-up at the end of lap 1 and the awful saloon car crash and a great location to see cars take that fabulous bend.

 

In the youtube film there are two Formula One cars parked on the apron beside the JPS pits which took no part in the race - what were they and why were they there. Show cars maybe!



#18 Sterzo

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 13:53

...and I was at Becketts, complete with cheddar cheese sandwich, although clearly you can't eat while Ronnie Peterson is opposite-locking past you. I actually think the line of the circuit is just as good these days; we've lost the old Woodcote but gained the Becketts ess bend complex which is wonderful. Unfortunately it's not a place for human beings. A bleak alien landscape hostile to survival.  Yet the sourrounding countryside and villages are very pleasant. I've always thought racing 35B Bugattis round the neighbouring lanes would be better.

 

It's odd the reports don't explain Lauda's delay. He doesn't mention the race in any of his four excellent books, though he expresses wonder at BRM's backward technology and poor pit equipment. When he commented on the antiquity of the refuelling rig, the mechanics apparently claimed it was from the Second World War.



#19 John Ginger

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 14:22

I was there in 1973 on the spectator embankment into Woodcote, . A great day's racing despite the pile-up at the end of lap 1 and the awful saloon car crash and a great location to see cars take that fabulous bend.

 

 

 

I am fairly sure that's where I was too   :well: a fairly small open grandstand just right of where the Club straight joined Woodcote



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#20 B Squared

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 14:31

I checked Rob Walker's Road & Track report of the race in the November, 1973 issue; he only mentions Lauda's drop through the field with a "deteriorating left front tire" but does not mention the pit stop problems.

#21 E1pix

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 17:27

...but still couldn't decide whether to say Jody or Yody or Zhody Scheckter... it changed three times in the space of a minute!

And for poor Francois, his name was pronounced three different ways, worse was "Sare-vay."

Calling our man Revson "Pete" also inspired short dizzy spells, as did graphics of "Schekter" and "Reuteman." But a really great clip regardless of bad linguistics. :-)

#22 Bonde

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 23:53

Okay, I'll leave it for now, but I also found Baxter's use of the expression of drivers being "on" rather than "in" their cars quite quaint - as it used to be stated in the pioneering days when the drivers literally sat on their cars rather than in them...



#23 E1pix

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 00:11

He must be a fellow VW bus owner.

 

I knew I sensed brilliance.



#24 2F-001

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:25



Okay, I'll leave it for now, but I also found Baxter's use of the expression of drivers being "on" rather than "in" their cars quite quaint - as it used to be stated in the pioneering days when the drivers literally sat on their cars rather than in them...

I'd always assumed that expression to be a hangover from horse racing (with a car being described as a 'mount').

 

Regarding the '73 British GP... DCN's The British Grand Prix, 1926-1976 is one of the few sources I've seen to make mention of the end-of-lap-one incident being, in part, preceded by Scheckter running through (or perhaps avoiding - necessarily or otherwise? My italics) the patch of oil that had been pumping out of the catch tank of Oliver's Shadow as it sat on the grid (prior, obviously, to it running into the back of the failing Lauda BRM when the flag fell). I think we may have looked at this before, but as far as it can be discerned from film, Scheckter's line through Woodcote - in relation to the Shadow's grid slot - was inconclusive.


Edited by 2F-001, 11 January 2018 - 06:26.


#25 E1pix

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:09

I admit to having a long curiosity about that crash; partly as I was 13, read about it then, and first saw Scheckter in a F5000 race at Road America two weeks afterwards.

I don't recall ever seeing footage of it until the "Quick and the Dead" movie two decades later, nor any inferences of oil -- but that makes perfect sense.

Over all these years it seemed a simple issue of a wildly over-exuberant driver, in exactly the same sideways form as he'd been in that Trojan F5000 car, and to a lesser degree in the Turbo-Porsche Can-Am car a month later.

Scheckter was amazingly fortunate to emerge unscathed at Silverstone, especially after getting hit square on. The image of him frantically waving his arms is horrifying, and to now place the two-week timing between that and his sideways, utterly brilliant F5000 drive speaks to Jody's cutting from a rather-different cloth than even the bravest of his era. All phenomenal things at just 23.

#26 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:34


Regarding the '73 British GP... DCN's The British Grand Prix, 1926-1976 is one of the few sources I've seen to make mention of the end-of-lap-one incident being, in part, preceded by Scheckter running through (or perhaps avoiding - necessarily or otherwise? My italics) the patch of oil that had been pumping out of the catch tank of Oliver's Shadow as it sat on the grid (prior, obviously, to it running into the back of the failing Lauda BRM when the flag fell).


No mention of any oil by AH in MN. Here’s what Pete Lyons wrote in Autosport:

It had been Hulme in third place at the vehicle bridge, but he had already determined that it wasn’t his time to try to catch the two leaders and when he saw a flying Scheckter forcing his way up on the left he waved him on by. Jody’s car whipped by into the entrance for Woodcote just a bit faster than seemed possible - and it wasn’t. Off line already, it began sliding its tail out onto the disused area off the line. Jody fought it all the way round, and really he very nearly had it gathered up, when he thinks he ran over a puddle of water or oil left on the grid by a stationary car 80 seconds before. At terrific grass-tearing speed the long white M23 slid its back end off onto the outside and then, tightening its arc, slewed back onto the track surface. Once again, for an instant, the car looked almost saved, but it carried on across the track through the middle of the very fastest front runners and got all the way across to the wall below the pits without being touched. It hit there, not very hard, left-front corner first with the tail pointing backwards up the track. Still there was no collision with any of the onrushing racing cars, but the recoil from the wall sent the wreckage sliding back out towards the middle.

It almost didn’t happen. Several individual cars flicked by without harm, and one had time for the thought that perhaps everyone would get through, when a cluster of cars suddenly veered together to the left side of the road. There was the fearful sound of thumping, and the sight of projectiles being deflected one from the other, and then great clouds of dust and smoke and hurling fragments. In an instant the track was a seething mass of wreckage.



#27 john aston

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:59

I was there too- and lucky enough to be at Woodcote during final practice (I don't take calls from Mr Qually ) to witness the Peterson masterclass . God only knows why but we watched the race at dull old Chapel and were virtually the only people there . The bonus was that when Revson did his victory lap he spotted the four of us waving, all wearing our (cheap and very nasty ) Yardley McLaren  jackets and we got a big wave from the Man  in return . The day also  marked my first awareness of Lauda's brilliance and he remains the driver , and the man ,whom  I admire more than any other in the sport  



#28 2F-001

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:12

I was there, at Woodcote, for practice too; but I only saw the race on tv at home (I had a Saturday morning job then - for the benefit of younger viewers, yes, the race was on Saturday when at Silverstone in those days).

Weren't there major incidents in all of the races that day?

Edited by 2F-001, 11 January 2018 - 08:12.


#29 john winfield

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:24

 

Regarding the '73 British GP... DCN's The British Grand Prix, 1926-1976 is one of the few sources I've seen to make mention of the end-of-lap-one incident being, in part, preceded by Scheckter running through (or perhaps avoiding - necessarily or otherwise? My italics) the patch of oil that had been pumping out of the catch tank of Oliver's Shadow as it sat on the grid (prior, obviously, to it running into the back of the failing Lauda BRM when the flag fell). I think we may have looked at this before, but as far as it can be discerned from film, Scheckter's line through Woodcote - in relation to the Shadow's grid slot - was inconclusive.

 

Back in 1998 I was writing a short article on the 1973 Silverstone crash and was pleasantly surprised how willing various drivers were to share their memories. Howden Ganley and John Watson were particularly helpful, as was Jody, which says a lot for the man!

 

Initially he described the incident as 'just 'one of those things' but, after more of my probing, investigative questions ( :lol:) he added a few more thoughts. He didn't blame water or oil on the grid but, by implication, put it down to the speed he was travelling and the state of his tyres.'We'd chosen hard tyres on the left-hand side, but they were new. I tried to warm them up on the first lap, but it wasn't enough.'

 

Back in July '73 Scheckter was on top form. He'd led much of the French GP and, here on the first lap finds himself in fifth, with Peterson and Stewart getting away up front. Team-mate Denny Hulme is taking things more steadily in fourth, Jody is all over him coming into Abbey after which I believe Denny waves him by. I wouldn't be surprised if Jody's point about tyres is entirely correct coupled with his overtaking of the sister McLaren. In getting past Denny, Jody may have arrived at Woodcote fractionally off the ideal racing line, and slightly too quickly. Add the tyre issue and I think that these may be the main causes. Although cornering at full tilt over a recently vacated starting grid may not have helped......



#30 Michael Ferner

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:31

I was there, at Woodcote, for practice too; but I only saw the race on tv at home (I had a Saturday morning job then - for the benefit of younger viewers, yes, the race was on Saturday when at Silverstone in those days).

Weren't there major incidents in all of the races that day?


Don't confuse the young'uns! Other races, on the same day and track when an Eff Wun Gran Pree was run?? And people watching them??? How extraordinary!

#31 2F-001

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:10

Yes, indeed, Michael!
Last year, I was at Silverstone for the Grand Prix meeting (first time in a while).
I watched the F1 qualifying from the Becketts grandstand - which was packed out with spectators. Once that was over and the GP2s (are they still called that?) came out to actually race, the grandstand was deserted… (well, sparsely populated at least).

Edited by 2F-001, 11 January 2018 - 10:10.


#32 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:30

Weren't there major incidents in all of the races that day?


There was of course the horrendous accident at Abbey in the saloon race involving Dave Matthews, Dave Brodie, Andy Rouse and Gavin Booth. Then Jas Patterson’s March went flying in the F Atlantic race following an aggressive move by Steve Choularton into Copse on the first lap. The other races seem to have passed off relatively incident-free.

#33 2F-001

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:37

Ok - I thought there had been a big dust-up towards the end of the F3s; maybe I'm confusing events.

(Actually, I was half-remembering something involving Alex Ribeiro - which would mean I had the wrong year anyway.)

Edited by 2F-001, 11 January 2018 - 10:43.


#34 john winfield

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:45

Ok - I thought there had been a big dust-up towards the end of the F3s; maybe I'm confusing events.

 

Tony, would you be thinking of the F3 support at the 1977 British GP meeting? Derek Daly and Stephen South dominated the race before they touched at Chapel. South in particular was lucky to survive.



#35 2F-001

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:16

Could be, John, - though I was thinking that the identity of one of the 'participants' in such an occurrence was not entirely a surprise (which, in my mind, wouldn't have been one of those two). If you see what I mean.

In the race I'm thinking of, it was, likewise, a battle for the lead that ended in tears.

Edited by 2F-001, 11 January 2018 - 11:20.


#36 B Squared

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:45

Once that was over and the GP2s (are they still called that?)

Now F2:

http://www.fiaformul...-Championship-/

#37 E1pix

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 15:46

Happy Birthday, Mr. Brown!!!

#38 Nick Planas

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 22:16

I was watching the '73 race from Becketts, and remember hearing a very excited commentator but not being able to hear what was going on. I seem to recall this was the year that we were being courted by the EEC and so half the commentary was in French (it took a while to work out who the heck Gramm Eel was - you know, the guy who drove the Embassy Shadow). A very depleted field came round, and then about two or three minutes later said Gramm Eel appeared with a very bent rear suspension. I remember later they tried to interview a very angry John Surtees but then they moved the mike away from him...



#39 Simon Arron

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 22:41

I know John Winfield has touched upon this, so I might be rather late to the party, but several millennia ago I was commissioned to write a series of features about grands prix that were memorable for reasons both positive and negative – and Silverstone 1973 was foremost among them.

 

These are edited highlights of Jody’s recollections…

 

“I was pushing Denny [Hulme] hard around the back of the circuit and as we approached Woodcote I passed him for fourth place. He simply let me by

 

“We’d had trouble with our left-side tyres during qualifying, so we put a harder compound on the rear for the race. I thought the warm-up lap and the first few corners at full speed would bring it up to temperature, but as I went through Woodcote the car just stepped out of line

 

“I initially put my foot on the brakes, but then thought, ‘Hang on, if I let my foot off the pedal I might get away with this’. I genuinely believed it was recoverable, but as soon as I released the brake the car jumped straight into the pit wall. I looked to my right and saw a load of cars, but because they were trying to take avoiding action they began crashing into each other before they hit me. I just put my head down. I felt a couple of big bangs and then it all seemed to go quiet. I made a grab to unfasten my belts, then looked to the right and saw another bunch of cars. I put my head down again…

 

“Phil Kerr [McLaren team manager] spirited me away pretty quickly. He knew there were one or two angry people around and felt it would be better if I laid low. I flew to America soon after Silverstone and thought, ‘Thank God I’m away from all that crap’. Then I went to a press conference and the first thing anybody asked was, ‘Jody, John Surtees has been very critical of your driving. How d’you feel?’ There was no escape.”

 

A year or three later, when the world championship’s 60th anniversary was celebrated in Bahrain, Scheckter and John Surtees were both present and I did ask John whether he’d ever forgiven Jody for triggering the demolition of three TS14As.

 

His response?

 

“We all make mistakes in life and Jody made a stupid one that day. It was very costly to me, but at least he was trying and I could never really condemn somebody for that. Although it was unwise, he went on to learn and do things correctly, which you have to admire.

 

“In 1960, in only my fifth car race and my third in F1, I threw away what would have been Colin Chapman’s first grand prix win when I crashed while leading in Portugal. We all make mistakes and it’s water under the bridge.

 

“You get on with some drivers better than you do with others, but we have always been united by an important common factor. It’s called respect.”



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#40 john aston

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:22

Re the commentary. in the interminable delay which followed the shunt, I remember Graham Hill being interviewed.. He sounded more bored than annoyed and announced languidly - 'oh , we'll get started again once they clean all the **** off the track .  This was an era when a publicly uttered 'bloody' was enough to raise eyebrows .    



#41 john winfield

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:41

Yes, even in 1973, you couldn't say 'clean all the mess off the track' without Mary Whitehouse jumping on you. So to speak.

 

Thanks for Jody's extended recollections Simon. Here's an interesting piece of footage, with Italian commentary, shot from the exit of Woodcote, and from Copse. I've posted it before but it really brings home the momentum involved when cars were thundering through Woodcote, and the remarkable good fortune that no car caught fire and that nobody, except Andrea de Adamich, was badly hurt.

 

Race winner Peter Revson came within inches of hitting his stranded team-mate, and I still haven't heard Rikky von Opel explain why he was bailing out of the Ensign on the way into Copse. Looks as if something very unpleasant has joined him in the cockpit.

 

Sorry JtP2 for the continued topic drift!

 

 



#42 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:24

... and I still haven't heard Rikky von Opel explain why he was bailing out of the Ensign on the way into Copse. Looks as if something very unpleasant has joined him in the cockpit.

There’s no mention of this in the contemporary reports, but in an earlier thread Twin Window thought it might have been a burst water pipe:

I was watchiing from between the bridge and Copse and Jeez, what a mess it was... and over an hour and a half to clean up. The crash has been documented many times, but I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Rikki von Opel, who had suffered a burst water pipe or similar on the Ensign. By the time he got to Copse, he was standing up in the cockpit...!



#43 john winfield

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:33

There’s no mention of this in the contemporary reports, but in an earlier thread Twin Window thought it might have been a burst water pipe:
 

 

Poor Rikky! Hope he was wearing his Nomex incontinence pants.



#44 2F-001

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:40

Tony, would you be thinking of the F3 support at the 1977 British GP meeting? Derek Daly and Stephen South dominated the race before they touched at Chapel. South in particular was lucky to survive.

It might have been the 1975 GP support race - an end-of-race clash between pole-sitter Ribeiro and Gunnar Nilsson... although, of course Gunnar came through to win and I'm not sure if 'clash' is technically the correct term for the incident - certainly a race-changing moment though.

That was an event notable for a few 'offs' in the GP (!), so I guess I was conflating memories of two meetings.

(I'm pretty sure I wasn't at the '77 one.)


Edited by 2F-001, 12 January 2018 - 12:46.


#45 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 16:32

It was late on in the '75 F3 season, Tony. Not a GP/F1 support race, Gunnar had him off! Good description in the Lawrence/March book



#46 2F-001

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 17:18

Are you sure Dan? (Or, perhaps, is Lawrence and/or his source sure?)
The race I'm thinking of was in mid-July (19th).

I don't have all the Autosport editions for that year here, but the Formula2.net site lists the GP support race being won by Nilsson, with pole-sitter Ribeiro finishing 12th, but DNF ('accident'); no. of laps completed not shown, but must be a lot to be classified. (If that is the race I'm recalling, I think the incident was somewhere between Club and the run towards Woodcote.)

I can see a short-circuit circuit race (in August) when neither finished, but those two are shown as retiring with brake and gearbox trouble respectively, and eight laps apart. (As a distracting aside, Gary Anderson - Jordan designer - was entered in that one, with his own Anson.)

Then there's the 'finals day' meeting, presumably the one that Herd (via Lawrence) refers to... but Ribeiro is shown (same web source as above) as finishing 5th, just 13 seconds down on the winner - would he have been able to do that if, as Herd is quoted, "he had Alex off into a bank" ?

On that evidence, whilst not at all convinced that I'm right, I'm not sure whether Herd also had a couple (or more) closely-fought races confused, or if "off into a bank" is not quite the race-ending calamity I imagine!

(Apologies for further thread-creep... by two steps in formulae, and two seasons!)


Edited by 2F-001, 12 January 2018 - 17:28.


#47 MCS

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 17:39

It was late on in the '75 F3 season, Tony. Not a GP/F1 support race, Gunnar had him off! Good description in the Lawrence/March book

Same thing happened at the end of the Railway Straight at Aintree earlier in the season, but at Cadwell Park Gunnar well and truly fell foul of the charging Dick Parsons and cartwheeled off the circuit - happily completely unscathed and even drove the barely damaged March back to the Paddock after the race!

 

A great season and almost always very well-behaved.  Just wish I could go back and enjoy it all again...



#48 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 18:17

Here’s how Chris Witty (in Autosport) described the deciding moment in the F3 race at the 1975 GP meeting:

“I knew it would be impossible to pass him on the way up to Woodcote,” explained Gunnar Nilsson afterwards, “so I passed him earlier than he’d expected and turned the tables.” It worked too for as we waited in anticipation for the two works Marches to come bursting under the Daily Express bridge and into Woodcote for the last time, the Swede was all alone. Ribeiro was a hundred yards or so further back up the track, the dust still swirling around his stationary car. The Brazilian had panicked, obviously flustered by his “team mate’s” tactics and, in an attempt to regain the lead he’d held for half the race, Alex had spun his car in one long agonising loop after hanging a wheel on the grass at Abbey, the flat out left hander on the final run-in to the flag. The battery was flat, the engine refused to fire and Nilsson, eyes twinkling and with that familiar smirk on his face, knew he had performed the perfect coup d’etat on his erratic sparring partner.



#49 john aston

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:18

You know what is really shocking? We are talking about a Grand Prix which took place nearly 45 years ago. Which means that if we were transported back to 1973 we would be comparing accounts of the 1928 San Sebastian GP, and are thus all doomed to turn into Bill Boddy . Scary  :stoned:   



#50 retriever

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 13:33

You know what is really shocking? We are talking about a Grand Prix which took place nearly 45 years ago. Which means that if we were transported back to 1973 we would be comparing accounts of the 1928 San Sebastian GP, and are thus all doomed to turn into Bill Boddy . Scary  :stoned:   

 

Going forward do you think that anybody in 2062 will be looking back at an incident in a Formula One race held in 2017?  I think not.

 

Personally I believe the demise of this class of racing will have taken place well before that time; either through its implosion caused by the FIA's failure to address the fundamental problems that exist or because a certain demented individual from a country with whom we have a 'special relationship' could not resist thumping the red button!