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The Rebaque?


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#1 Megatron

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 01:22

One of my favorite cars for a while has been the Rebaque that ran at the end of 1979. Can anyone give me any info on the car and its history?

Thanks

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#2 Timekeeper

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 02:56

Megatron

The Rebaque team and its HR100 car would be one to add to list of short lived F1 teams/cars of the 70s such as Trojan, Amon, Merzario and LEC. As you probably know, the HR100 was essentially a Lotus 79 clone designed by Geoff Ferris of Penske fame. They took it to 3 GPs but it only made the grid in Canada.

In a 1981 interview with Eric Bhat in Grand Prix International, Hector Rebaque gave his reasons for building the car

"EB - You then started your own team, using ex-works Lotuses. That proved to be difficult, didn't it?
HR - Yes we set up our own organisation, but as you know, after two years we were still having lots of problems. It was complicated for me trying to drive and trying to keep the team together. We were fighting against all sorts of problems, especially at that time, with pre-qualifying and the special Q-tyres the other teams were getting. We also had to try to keep our cars as similar as possible to the ones from the factory. It was very complicated. We had sponsors... and I feel that they weren't getting what they paid for. So it was then we decided to build our own car. We had promises from everybody to help us with tyres, and this and that, if we became a constructor, but it didn't happen. Instead of having fun, and really enjoying what we were doing it was really tough. I thought it wasn't fair to our sponsors to keep doing this, so I decided to quit with the team."

Of course others have concluded that the reason for building the car was a rich kid with too much money. :)

#3 Megatron

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 09:45

I have heard some people claim that it was just a slightly modified Lotus 79 and didn't deserve to be called a Rebaque. Do you know exactly how much the car borrowed from the 79? (ie, what parts were different).

Also, was this just a soley family funded project? The only sponsor I remember seeing was a small Marlboro decal.

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 10:21

The Rebaque looked very like a Lotus 79 and has been described as a Lotus 79 clone. The basic tub was copied from Lotus and the side-pods and skirts copied from Williams.
However, as far as can be seen, it was a totally new new chassis - built at Penske's premises at Poole under the supervision of Geoff Ferris and Derrick Walker. It should be possible to check this from the Lotus chassis numbers: if both his Lotuses still existed at the end of 1979 then they can't have been used as a basis for the new car.
Apparently Rebaque did hint that there would be a second, revised car for 1980, but it never appeared. John Barnard was briefly involved with Rebaque, but nothing ever came of this either.

#5 Timekeeper

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 10:53

Check out this link for a photo
www.motorracingretro.i12.com/gp79/79cdn31.htm
As you will see, you were right on Marlboro being a sponsor, the other was Carta Blanca the Mexican brewer. Beer and cigs, F1s friends. My other info is pretty much as per Vitesse2. There is a reference to it the Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-85. This also mentions about the skirts being like the Williams but I think you would have to agree from the photo they look more like a 79.

#6 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 11:18

I believe that most mechanical parts, the suspension and so came from a donor-car.
That means from a Lotus 79 from his own stable.

#7 Allen Brown

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 12:46

The Rebaque has now disappeared, but, rather suspiciously, there is now an extra Lotus 79 in the world...

Allen

#8 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 13:15

Does anyone know the source of Mr. Rebaque's income? He seemed to have a lot of money to throw at his racing.

#9 Timekeeper

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 13:48

David,

The 1981 GPI interview said the he had a construction company. He of course got sponsorship from Pemex the Mexican Oil company for his Brabham drives.

#10 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 15:06

Back in January I posted a comment on Hector. Got good info and interesting pictures.

Use the BB search engine for Hector Rebaque.

The Almighty Gilster:up:

#11 cjpani

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 15:57

Indeed his father was in the construction business. Hector Alonso Rebaque Sr. was a prominent architect, and passed away just a couple of months ago.

#12 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 16:11

Great to know there is some interest in Rebaque, it gives me a chance to write about him and correct a few misconceptions.

First his name is actually Héctor Alonso-Rebaque, with Alonso also being a first name in spanish speaking countries so everybody thought it was his middle name so they called him Rebaque,, and it stuck since it is a lot more distinctive.

The source of money. Well his dad was a lifelong fan of Alfa, raced cars and did well in both track & field, sorry rally. He actually won Mexico's premier rally the 24 Hour Rally (24 hours rallying uninterruptedly) back in the late 50s. His dad, also Héctor Alonso-Rrebaque, was an architect, very succesful in developing new portions of Mexico city, so he was fairly well established. Dad was a friend of Pedro Rodríguez (now everybody knows why I know), although much older (some 10 years at least) and he actually ran in 1967 at Sebring in a NART GTB/C which Pedro "sponsored" for him and Carlos Sales (they crashed). Héctor got to know Pedro a bit but his dad was the one who pushed him to become a racer. he started in 1970 in Renault R8 and soon won the mexican class (Freely Modofied Touring 1) and moved to something bigger which was a Porsch 914/6 and formed the Rebaque team. Sonn he got a 911 2.8, then a 3.0 and then a 911 prototype with an immense rear wing and won all the mexican championships and got into IMSA ans gave Gregg & Co a big scare, fdefeated them in Mexico (we had the 1000K of Mexico as part of the IMSA championship ran in the Rodríguez brothers track in Mexico City). He also stared doing F. Atlantic, and a bit of F2 with Fred Opert and suddenly in 1977 went to Hesketh as a renta driver. Support was from Marlboro Mexico firts, then Carta Blanca beer brand (the same company which owns Tecate and sponsors Adrián Fernández) and PEMEX, our own oil monopoly.

he had a few Lotus 78, then 79 as the Lotus team was stoping using them, and they scored a point in Hockenheim 78, then a few batlles in 1979 and then decided to build their own wing car. Since they had a Lotus 79, they copied it (just like everyone else by the way) and it was done by Geoff Ferris but John Barnard reworked it. They sold the 79 to Penske who wanted his own wing car (Derrick told me they studied the 79 they bought from Rebaque most carefully in order to produce another PC whatever). The HR100 was a neat car, not a slightly modified 79 but a new one, but not very effective since it was not done to spec. In fact when he would turn the wheel totally to the left, the car would jump about 2 centimeters on the right side and viceversa so it was a problem and it only qualified for Canada. Barnard was set to design a new one, HR101, but they got a bit frustrated when Bernie told them that FOCA was not going to give them membership, they didn't want small teams but big ones and offered Héctor a seat instead in Brabham.

Héctor quit for a little while and then came back in 1980 to replace Zunino in Brabham, along with Pemex. That is another subject though. Just to let you know, Rebauqe dad was against Parmalat for the seat and held on to it for 1 1/2 years. Then they went to CART, Héctor won the isth race he ran there and then quit too. He came back for one more race in the Race of Champs at Brands in 1983 in another Brabham but the felling was gone and he retired for good. I have questioned him about, since I think it was a premature retirement, he was only 26, and he now agrees it was but he had a full tiem job, he develops tourist places in the mexican pacific, jetted to Europe the wednesday before the race and was still an amateur racer, probably the last one ver (any thoughts on who might have been a later one?). He was very good, since very early and it is a pity races were not his 100% life, like it is with most drivers.

Now about the HR100. Allen, you are wrong, the reabque is still alive and well so the other Lotus which appeared must come from someone else's shops. The HR100 was exhibited in the Mexico City Autoshow in 1999, and it is in Héctor's house still. Once it was lent to some "friend" for an auto show in the border (with the US) and the guy disappeared. The car was later found in a warehouse, painted red with declas of the guy's company and about to be sold as junk to pay for the warehouse rent (overdue) and someone saw Rebaque, knew a bit, called Mexico and it was rescued just in time.
For us it is a badge of pride, not very succesful but proved a mexican could do it in the big leagues in his own team, own car and so on. I guess a bit like the Amon, or the Merzario cars.
Of course, I have a full listing of races he ran in F1 and CART, and stuff, since we are working on a bio by him. I made all the research for stats and gave it to him and we will publish a bio sometime, soon I hope. If you need notes or chassis numbers, send me a mail, I can probably help. The problem is his dad died last january 13, old age, and Héctor just remarried and everything is geting sorted out, specially the will. He has a son from his first marriage, and the kid shold be about 17/18 now but likes baseball. The project is a bit in limbo but we'll pick it up sometime. And you might think of him whatever, but remember he was gaining on Piquet at Argentina 1981 when they trashed everyone else (the hydropneumatic suspension fiasco) , and if the piece that broke had been Piquet's not Héctor's, he would have been the winner. Sometimes luck is a 1 dollar piece. He was a great driver but his heart was not fully in it, and even he failed to realize how good he was.





#13 Allen Brown

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 21:07

Carlos

I am delighted to be wrong!

It always seemed a terrible shame to me that someone would have tried to represent the sole Rebaque as a sixth Lotus 79 so it's great to hear that Héctor still has it and that it is still in Mexico.

I will update my records. Are you able to tell me when that incident happened when it went missing?

Thanks for the information on this. I now have to figure where the extra Lotus 79 came from.

Allen

#14 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 22:25

Well the incident in question happened between 1995 when it was loaned and late 1997 when it was recovered in the red paint state.
It was restored to it usual brownish colour with gold trimming and is in great shape now (although I am not sure it could run).
By the way Allen, I happen to be making a Rodríguez register and a Solana register and a Rebaque register, as part of what the Scuderia Rodríguez stands for, and I have lots of chassis numbers, and stuff, but I do not know where many of the cars are. Do you
keep that stuff too? For example the 365P2 0838 Pedro used at several places is now in the hands of Peter Sachs in Connecticut, and this guy who has the Klemantaski Collection also has another Rodriguez car. Then Bruce McCaw has a 250 GTO, Ralph Lauren another, John McCaw has another car, the F1 312/69 is in the hands of some Monte xxxxx in the US, one of the 917K is owned by Mark F in England, the Ricardo RSK is in the Channel islands, the Cooper Maserati ditto. But some people are very secretive about who they sell too, like the people at Symbolic who sold the Dino chassis 014 and wouldn't tell me whom to. How do I get that sort of info? You talk about the Lotuses Héctor used and what i have is this:
-Lotus 78 F1 chasis 78/1 Ford V8, usado en Brasil, España y Sudáfrica y en los entrenamientos de Argentina y EUA (Long Beach) 1978
-Lotus 78 F1 chasis 78/2 Ford V8, usado en EUA (W.Glen) y entrenamientos de Canadá 1978
-Lotus 78 F1 chasis 78/4 Ford V8, usado en Suecia, GB, Alemania, Holanda y Austria y en los entrenamientos de Mónaco, España, Francia e Italia 1978 y en los entrenamientos de Argentina, Brasil, Bélgica, Francia, GB, Alemania y Austria 1979
-Lotus 79 F1 chasis 79/1 Ford V8, usado en Argentina, Sudáfrica, EUA (Long Beach), España, Bélgica, Francia, GB, Holanda y Alemania y en los entrenamientos de Brasil, Austria e Italia 1979

It is in spanish but you get the idea and "entrenamientos" being "practice". How do I find out who has these cars?
is there a central clearing house for chassis story and ownership?
the idea is make it official that someone owns a real Rodrpiguez car, becasue we all know what happened with the story of 917K chassis 015 which disappeared and it was suddenly found by someone who claims it was transformed into a 917PA and run by Kinnunen, utter rubbish snce they didn't even get their dates right. The difference between them is about a couple of million bucks so it pays to make this change but that is the reason we want to establish the "truth".
Just a thought.

#15 cjpani

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 22:40

A short story about the Posted Image

And some excellent pics, can be found at www.maisonblanche.co.uk

Regards

#16 luisfelipetrigo

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 23:26

On his excellent note about the beginings of Hector Alononso Rebaque, Carlos mentions the Renault 8 and the Porsche 914/6.
My recollection is that he ran an Alfa Romeo (probably a GTA or GTV) in between the other two cars.

I saw him race many times in Mexico in the Reanault 8 , the Alfa and many of the Porsches he had. I also saw him at the 6 hours of Daytona (usually 24 hours but shortened that year).

I think he always raced under the shadow of Pedro Rodriguez and was unfairly judged by that.

#17 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 23:33

Luis: Right, he also ran an Alfa but my list wasn't exhaustive, sorry about that.
Mándame un mail no? para conocernos
For CJ Pani, couldn't get the link, send me a copy of the areticle, when i push the URL it gets me to some place where there are lots of things but no races.




#18 cjpani

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Posted 25 May 2001 - 23:39

Carlos:
check the link now...
Por que no contestas mis mails??

#19 Allen Brown

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Posted 27 May 2001 - 14:04

Carlos

Thanks for extra details.

I have information on all the 3-litre F1 cars and know where most of them are now. Exactly which cars do you want to know about?

Allen

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#20 Flying Panda

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Posted 25 September 2002 - 13:58

Does anyone know where I can find some photos of the HR100 in full livery ?

Cheers.

#21 petefenelon

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Posted 25 September 2002 - 16:01

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Does anyone know where I can find some photos of the HR100 in full livery ?

Cheers.


Here's a couple - not the world's greatest photos though.
http://www.fortuneci...8-von-1979.html
http://8w.forix.com/rebaque.html

pete

#22 ghinzani

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Posted 25 September 2002 - 19:41

So if he retired at 26 in 83 and he started in 1970 he was ...13??????? surely they wouldnt let him race in IMSA at 17 ?

#23 Flying Panda

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 02:54

Thanks Pete.

ghinzani - Big wallets can go a looong way in motorsport.
So does lieing on entry forms. I began racing at 14 when the minimal age was 16, because all the forum we filled out said i was 17 :)

#24 ghinzani

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 10:35

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Thanks Pete.

ghinzani - Big wallets can go a looong way in motorsport.
So does lieing on entry forms. I began racing at 14 when the minimal age was 16, because all the forum we filled out said i was 17 :)


Where and in what tho? I know you copuld race in canada and NZ when you were 16 back in the 80s... whats the general rules then?

#25 Flying Panda

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 10:41

Me or Hector ?

Me - Australia, 1999, Formula 500
Hector - No idea :)

#26 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 12:48

I don't think the Mexican authorities have ever been too hot on ages. Pedro Rodriguez was racing bikes at 12 and an XK150 at 15. His brother Ricardo gave up bikes at 14 as Mexican champion and won his class in the Nassau Tourist Trophy at 15!

#27 ghinzani

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Posted 26 September 2002 - 20:06

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I don't think the Mexican authorities have ever been too hot on ages. Pedro Rodriguez was racing bikes at 12 and an XK150 at 15. His brother Ricardo gave up bikes at 14 as Mexican champion and won his class in the Nassau Tourist Trophy at 15!


Where can I find a detailed description of their early years racing? I cant beleive they were racing bikes at 12 and gave up at 14 - how big where the bikes?? I know Alex Barros started a 125 GP age 15 when he had also lied but nowadays 15 year old can race 125 GP bikes. But 15 year olds racing the equivalent of 911 GT3s these days is just crazy!

#28 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 27 September 2002 - 14:45

Ghinzani, I am still writing the early days of them before cars but they raced Adler 125cc and up to BSA motorcycles with 650 cc, and of course they could do it because they had the money, but more important, the skill. Their dad was the founder of the acrobatic mototcycle police squad and they had been racing bikes and motorbikes from very early. Rules sometimes don't apply when you are gifted, as Jacky Ickx (or the guys from Ghana who kept winning the sub 17 soccer cup when they were more liked over 20) Actually Ricardo ran Le Mans in 1959 as a 17 year old. It's not unbelievable, just like Mozatrt is not unbelievable either.
And Michel Jourdan II started in CARy at 19, Josele Garza was rookie of the year in the Indy 500 at 19, Mario Domínguez was in Indy Lights at 15 and Moisés Solana ran the last Panamericana in 1954 at 18. When you are good, age doesn't matter (nor size nor technique :lol: )

#29 Maldwyn

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 07:39

I've just invested in a new scanner and dug up this photo I took of HR at Brands Hatch in 1983. His last appearance in a Grand Prix car?

CLICK HERE

#30 HistoryFan

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 21:29

I have some difficult questions about the cars at the Rebaque team but I heard that there are some members from Rebaque F1, so I try it:

1. As Rebaque started his own team, were there other opportuinities instead of buying old Lotus chassis?
2. As he noticed that the partnership with Lotus wasn't as good as he imagined, were there no thoughts or plans to buy another car instead of building his own car?
3. Were there alternatives to Penske which could have been built the car for Rebaque? were there also other plans?
4. As Rebaque retired as driver, were there no plans to rejoing his own team?

#31 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 23:40

While I have no insight to share regarding the Rebaque/Lotus 79 connection, the Lotus 79 owned by Rebaque was in the Houston, Texas Ferrari dealer showroom (Ferrari of Houston/Risi Competizione) around the mid-1980's. I was taking a good look at the car which was painted in Andretti/Lotus "black beauty" livery and in discussing the car with Giuseppe Risi he informed me that he was selling the car as agent for Sr. Rebaque.

#32 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 13:01

Another question to the Rebaque team: Ian Dawson was leading the team. Has someone more infos about his career because I only find that he was later team manager at Pacific (1994)

#33 tristar

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 22:09

ghinzani - Pedro raced in California at 14!

#34 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:40

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Another question to the Rebaque team: Ian Dawson was leading the team. Has someone more infos about his career because I only find that he was later team manager at Pacific (1994)

Dawson? You sure? I always thought that was Peter Reinhard's job... a fellow countryman of both of us, by the way.

#35 rdmotorsport

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:59

I assumed HR was run by Ian Dawsons GRID outfit and the car was re jigged from the Lotus inhouse.

#36 HistoryFan

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:14

Originally posted by fines
Dawson? You sure? I always thought that was Peter Reinhard's job... a fellow countryman of both of us, by the way.


Reinhart was teammanager I think and Dawson run the team. That's from grandprix.com:

"A team base was established in Leamington Spa and Ian Dawson was hired to run it."

#37 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:46

Oh, what's the job description for a team manager, then? :confused:

#38 Ascari64

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 17:02

I remember the HR at Jarama-Spain 1978s F1 Grand Prix.

I obtained a pretty sticker in the circuit paddock that I have still got.

Regards.

Alberto


Posted Image

#39 PeterElleray

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 18:51

Originally posted by fines
Oh, what's the job description for a team manager, then? :confused:


Ian was the technical guy for Rebaque, and many other projects since! i can ask him for soem information if there is an interest.

peter

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#40 Formula Once

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 20:23

We spoke to Ian recently for a feature on Hector and his team and Ian has good memories of those years. Its a bit too much to translate all his quotes here, I am sorry!

#41 luisfelipetrigo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 01:50

If you mail me the quotes... I will translate and post them.
Saludos

#42 eldougo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:44

Originally posted by Ascari64
I remember the HR at Jarama-Spain 1978s F1 Grand Prix.

I obtained a pretty sticker in the circuit paddock that I have still got.

Regards.

Alberto


Posted Image


That would have been my wife or yours truly giving out those stickers Alberto.we ran the motorhome for Hector.

#43 Formula Once

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 15:08

Ian Dawson's quotes, quickly translated from Dutch:

"It was a nice organisation. There was about 10 of us, a small team but not that small for that time. We had a good budget and could do pretty much what we wanted. In reality we were like a Lotus B-team, we received good support from the factory. But aerodynamically those Lotusses were quite complicated. For example, it was difficult to get heat into the front tyres. You needed really good drivers like Andretti and Peteson to get the best out of those cars. Besides, as good as the Lotusses were back then, they were outdated pretty quick too. We had chassis no. 1 and it wasn't the best of the lot. Hector wasn't too confident, he would have gotten better result in a two-car team. Which he showed later at Brabham. He really could drive.

"The Rebaques wanted a Mexican team and a Mexican car, they had big plans. In those days, if you had the right mind-set, you could still build a proper F1-car the way we did. We knew it would be quick, but in the end there was no time and no more money for testing or development. The Rebaques started to realise that their dream of building a Mexcian F1-car was not going to happen. Much was changing at the same time, the sport became more complex rapidly. Ground effect and turbo engines were arriving and aerodynamics became more and more crucial. We had just one car and then its hard to develop things. Plus there simply was no money left."

#44 eldougo

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 10:06

Found these pics in and old box today .This is the new car at Dutch Gp1979 & a couple off cake for the team we had made . The Mexicans love their chocolate .
Posted Image

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Posted Image

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Edited by eldougo, 24 September 2010 - 22:38.


#45 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 16:22

At last , pictures , and then I cant see them ?

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 24 September 2010 - 16:22.


#46 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 16:54

They were there earlier. :confused: :confused:

#47 arttidesco

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 19:05

Out of a pressing anorack interest I wonder if any one has a data base which includes total mileage raced by constructors with just one GP start to their credit. I count Amon and Connew although both have a DNS and a start to their credit.

My knowledge only goes back to the early 70's can any one think of any other constructors that started just one World Championship race to formula one regs or even the World championship years run to F2 Regs in the 50's ?

So far I have got :-

Connew 80.086 miles
Rebaque 72.696 miles
Amon 46.530 miles
Andrea Moda 22.748 miles

#48 ensign14

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 19:43

Shannon - about a mile and a half

#49 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 19:55

Bugatti - 93 miles

#50 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 21:03

Ferguson - 168 miles
Stebro - 202 miles
Derrington-Francis (arguably still an ATS) - 89 miles
Lyncar - 152 miles