199 replies to this topic

[Hans Etzrodt]

David Bruce-Brown, born 1890*, won his first major race, the American Grand Prize on 12 November 1910. If he was born after November 12 1890, which we don't know, he would have been only 19 when he received his laurels.

* = However, there is controversy about his age.
1.) Peter Helck wrote (1961 and again 1983) that Bruce-Brown was 24 when he died on 1 October 1912. This means he was born before October 1888 and at the time of his first American Grand Prize win, he was actually 22.
2.) G N Georgano & Cyril Posthumus (1971) show him to be born in 1890.
3.) Robert Cutter and Bob Fendell (1973) have him born 1890 and refer to him as 18-year-old on March 23 1908, when he set a record speed of 109 mph at Daytona. Conclusion, he must have been born before March 23 1890.
4.) Tim Considine wrote (1997) that he was born 1890, which would make him either 19 or 20.

Was he the youngest ever to win a Grand Prix event?

[Hans Etzrodt]

So, nobody knew the answer! I guess you must have all been busy rewinding you vidio tapes of the Monaco GP and watch it all over again.;)

The guy who won Sebring in 1959 could also be candidate for the youngest Grand Prix winner. Anybody younger than that?

[MattFoster]

I always thought that it was Bruce Mclaren who was the youngest GP winner.

[Vitesse2]

Bruce was the youngest GP winner in the World Championship era: 22yrs 3m 12d. However, he is not the youngest winner of a World Championship race, as Troy Ruttman was 22yrs 2m 19d when he won Indianapolis in 1952.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
David Bruce-Brown, born 1890
However, there is controversy about his age.

My grandfather was born in either 1888 or 1889. Neither he nor any of his immediate family seemed able to agree on exactly which year. Maybe people were less careful or less bothered about these things back in the 19th century...

[Don Capps]

I will check the Quattlebaum book tonight and see what he says about David Bruce-Brown's age. Hans, I have a feeling you might be correct on this one.

[Don Capps]

I jsut checked the Quattlebaum book and found nothing concerning Bruce Brown's age. Only some itmes to the effect that he was 'very young.'

[Hans Etzrodt]

Thought so, Don.

It is astonishing that we don't even know the birth date of David Bruce-Brown, America's best racing driver. Or was it perhaps Jimmy Murphy or Ralph DePalma?

Anyway, some generous person from 10 Tenth Motorsport is digging into that topic and might spring a surprise within the next few weeks.

There must have been a reason why Peter Helck wrote in both of his wonderful books about Bruce-Browns age of 24 at the time of his death. Helck was a meticulous researcher and why would he make special mention of this different age, knowing that all other writers at that time had him two years younger?

Fred Wagner's Saga of the Roaring Road and Albert Bochroch's American Automobile Racing, two authoritative books of great importance, don’t even refer to Bruce-Brown’s age. Interesting!

[William Hunt]

Hans , it's over half a year ago since David Bruce-Brown's mysterious birthdate was discussed oevr here. Is there any more news on the topic ?

[Hans Etzrodt]

I had talked to two ladies who wanted to research this subject but nothing came out of it. Maybe Peter Helck is right.

[William Hunt]

If he was older than a part of his legend is destroyed. His young age was one of the main reasons why he became so famous. But he will certainly remain one of my heroes, no matter how old he was.

[TonyKaye]

David Bruce Brown lived in Brooklyn and his mother, Mrs. George Bruce Brown, lived at 189 East 59th Street in New York City. As a socialite, it is highly likely that his obituary, which would naturally include his date of birth, was in both the New York Times and the equivalent Brooklyn paper. Both are on microfilm which is available at several libraries in this vicinity.

Alas I shall be abroad for a month. Hans, please remind me to do it when I return.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Tony,
Thanks, I take you up on your offer next month. Have a good trip. I will follow in your planes draft.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Well, a lot of snow has melted since Tony Kaye’s last post in February. In his curious and persistent ways he has spared neither trouble nor expense to uncover a few snippets, which you folks might find just as captivating as I do. Actually, I do admire Tony, not just for what he has come up with in his relentless search but because he is already way ahead of me. Let me explain: he has not posted at TNF since February 24. He could have lurked around once in a while but I doubt he even did that. Not that he dislikes The Nostalgia Forum, far from it but..... So what has he been up to during all this time? Tony diligently works on his numerous projects and then finds people like me to do his postings at TNF after e-mailing me what he has unearthed. Now, where does it leave time for my research, I ask you?
Thanks Tony.

Hi Hans,
A long time ago I promised to visit the Greenwich Library to see if I could find out any more about David Bruce-Brown. I don't think the following helps much and I will leave it to your discretion whether it should be added to the TNF thread. Just one point of interest, it gives his age as 25, which is presumably at odds with "in his 25th year", which appeared a few days later in the same publication. At least it does give the year of his birth as 1887. How does this compare with your other sources, in particular Peter Helck?

NEW YORK TIMES, OCTOBER 2, 1912

“While the surgeons were working over Bruce-Brown at the hospital, a half dozen friends of the young driver were making repeated efforts to reach his mother by long-distance telephone at Mrs. Bruce-Brown's country place, Islip L. I., and at her town house in East Seventieth Street, New York City.

“Messages also were sent to Bruce-Brown's brother in New York and to other relatives. Tonight messages were received here stating that Mrs. Bruce-Brown accompanied by other relatives, had started for Milwaukee......

“David L. Bruce-Brown was born in New York in 1887 and began auto racing six years ago. The first car he ever drove in a race was owned by his mother, who lives at 18, East Seventieth Street, New York City. He won his novice race at the Empire City track near Yonkers. In 1908 he ran away from Harstrom's School at Norfolk and drove in amateur events in Florida, making his world’s one-mile amateur straightaway record of 0:33 3-5 beating the record held by William K. Vanderbilt, Jr., for that distance.

“In 1908 he also won the Shingle Hill climb at New Haven, Conn., and drove in the Briarcliff road race. In 1909 he lowered his amateur mile record to 0:33 in Florida, winning Sir Thomas Dewar’s cup for the fastest mile regardless of class, and breaking the world’s ten-mile record, rolling start. In the same year he won the one and two mile straightaway trials at Jamaica L. I. He drove the ‘Hemery Benz’ in all his 1909 races. He won a free-for-all event at Giant’s Despair Hill climb, and made the Shingle Hill record of 0:51 4-5, defeating Motor Cycle Racer Wray. He was thirteenth in the Vanderbilt Cup race of that year.

“In 1911 he was third in the 500-mile international speedway race at Indianapolis. His two most brilliant victories were the Grand Prize races at Savannah in 1910 and 1911. The former he won with a Benz car and last season he was again successful with the same Fiat in which he met death. In the French Grand Prix this year Bruce-Brown won the first leg of the two days’ event and finished third, but was disqualified for taking on gasoline outside a regular station.

“In 1910 he was obliged to turn professional in order to drive with fast company. In spite of the fact that he has made a great deal of money in racing he drove principally for sport. Although only 25 years old, Bruce-Brown was recognized as one of the best racing drivers in the country.”

In the NEW YORK TIMES, OCTOBER 6, 1912, Fred Wagner provided the following appreciation –

“Every one connected with racing and many of the public at large were inexpressibly shocked over the lamentable death of David Bruce Brown. This young driver was liked by all connected with automobiling, and always was to be feared in competition. That he was the equal of any of the foreign pilots was evident, not only in the Grand Prize races at Savannah but also in the French Grand Prix this year, when he won the first leg of that event. Although there were many competent pilots on the other side, supposed to be the best in the world, the Italian company for which he raced imported ‘Dave’ to drive one of its three cars.

“Bruce-Brown developed a dashing style all his own. More recently he adopted a method of holding his elbows high in the air above his wheel, instead of dropping them low like most drivers. The plucky driver had but one accident in his driving career and that was his last.

“Bruce-Brown had been picked as the Grand Prize favorite and there was the greatest interest centered in him, inasmuch as he already had won the gold cup twice in succession and a third win would have meant permanent possession of the trophy for him. The sincere sympathies of all the drivers and the entire racing fraternity are extended to his mother and brother.

“Mrs. Bruce-Brown will have at least one balm in her deep grief in the knowledge that her son was always a favorite and always was honest in his driving. He could be depended upon to do his best. He never threw a race in his life."

Hans, that last sentence is particularly appropriate after the recent Austrian Grand Prix. Clearly, in Fred Wagner's opinion, throwing a race (and presumably the corollary of accepting a phony win) was the most unsporting act a racing driver could perform. But of course in those days they hadn't developed blocking tactics and driving people into the wall.

Regards,
Tony


Then I received the following e-mail:

Hi Hans,
I'm just pleased to be of some service. Act as you will, I trust you totally.

You may wish to add this description of the accident, which appeared in the New York Times of October 2.

“David Bruce-Brown.... lost his life, and his mecanician, Tony Scudalari, was mortally injured today on the Wauwatosa automobile course on the eve of the .... Vanderbilt Cup race." (I would guess that poor Scudalari was an Italian factory mechanic supplied by Fiat.)

“Brown was driving.... at 90 miles an hour when the left rear tire blew out. The heavy car swerved into a ditch and a second later men and machine were catapulted diagonally across the road and into a field. The men were thrown clear of the car, which was hurled high in the air and wrecked.

“ “Bruce-Brown's skull was fractured, his left leg broken, and he suffered internal injuries. Scudalari's skull was crushed, his right arm was broken, and his body was seriously torn.

“Bruce-Brown died at Trinity Hospital of hemorrhage of the brain three hours after the accident, having only partially regained consciousness for a few minutes. Surgeons had trephined " (i.e. sawn) " his skull on both sides in an effort to save his life.

Caleb Bragg, Bruce-Brown's close friend, Ralph de Palma, Teddy Tetzlaff and other well-known drivers stood weeping in the hospital corridor as Bruce-Brown was wheeled from the operating room to a private ward. The hospital authorities withheld news of his death for an hour.

“Bruce-Brown, according to Bragg, met death in a heroic but futile effort to keep his swerving car on the comparatively narrow roadway after the explosion of the rear tire.

“Bragg declared that the course was dangerously narrow. He asserted that Bruce-Brown could have saved himself under similar conditions on a wider road. The organizers of the race, The Milwaukee Automobile Dealers Association and the race referee, A.R. Pardington, disagreed with this point of view. However, several days later at the inquest, the coroner blamed the track for Brown's death and, as far as I know, it was never again used for racing.

“The wreck occurred while Bruce-Brown was racing” (remember that this took place in practice, the day before the race) “a few yards behind Tetzlaff in a Fiat. Bruce-Brown had just driven the fastest lap of the day's tuning up trials and had set a new record of five minutes fifty-three and eight-tenth seconds for the 7.7 mile course. He was endeavoring to better this record and had just attempted to pass Tetzlaff when the crash came.

“Tetzlaff declared he did not hear the tire explode, but missed Bruce-Brown behind him as he slowed down to take the Fond du Lac Road....Meanwhile George Clark, one of the Mercedes drivers, discovered the plight of Bruce-Brown and telephoned for an ambulance from a nearby farm house after giving first aid to the injured men.” (It surprises me that in 1912 a farm in rural Wisconsin would have a telephone.)

“As a postscript, in the Grand Prize race, which followed the Vanderbilt Cup a day or so later, Ralph de Palma had a serious accident and once more found himself in Trinity Hospital. “De Palma and his mechanician, Tom Alley, were rushed for medical aid. It was said that De Palma, in addition to suffering from a broken leg, also had a puncture of the abdomen, and is in serious condition. Alley's shoulder is broken.” (Tom Alley recovered and went on to become a first class racing driver in his own right.)

Hans, you may want to meld these various reports into a single note for the TNF thread, but I will leave that to your discretion.

Regards,
Tony

[Barry Lake]

Hans and Tony

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I doubt we would ever have seen it otherwise.

Though it doesn't answer the original question, it gives us greater insight into the events of that week.

By the way, if I had to place a bet on Bruce-Brown's age at the time, I would be backing 24.

[Ray Bell]

24? At the time of his death or at the time of the 1910 Grand Prize win?

[Don Capps]

First of all, great work by Tony on unearthing the information he provided to Hans. Second, thanks to both for sharing it with the rest of us.

I think that it is becoming a bit clearer that Bruce-Brown was perhaps more likely born in 1887 than 1890. Mulling things over and taking a re-look at the period, the New York Times articles do shed some light on the events surrounding Bruce-Brown's life. I had always thought that he started "racing" earlier 1908, but it was all somewhat vague. Now it seems very likely that he started racing in 1906 -- six years prior to 1912 -- at the age age of 18 or 19. So see how all this starts to build on itself. At his death in 1912 he was at least 24 and perhaps 25?

Regardless of the questions concerning his age, Bruce-Brown was a top-notch racing driver and, in my lowly opinion, deserves far more consideration for his feats than is currently the case -- the same of which can be said for his contemporaries.

[Keir]

Age, smage!!! I'm still 39, even though I was born sometime during the 50's!!!!

Race drivers lying about their ages isn't something new today, so in Bruce Brown's era it was probably rampant!!

[Ray Bell]

Main question is, though, who was the youngest driver to win a GP...

Keir:

Like kids putting their age up to go to war?

Or putting them down to attract the chicks?

Just like women...

[Hans Etzrodt]

Another e-mail from Tony Kaye popped up in my mailbox this morning.

Hi Hans.....

For some reason I had assumed that all the primary sources on Bruce-Brown had already been tapped, however on re-reading the thread this appears not to be the case. So I went through my old magazines and came up with lengthy accounts of him in the October 3, 1912 issues of 'The Automobile' and 'Motor Age'.

I do not propose to type them in full, but a few extracts may add to our knowledge of the man. Both magazines are in agreement that he was born in New York in 1887, which would make him 24 or 25 at the time of his death. Neither publication refers to his exact age, but the photo in 'Motor Age' reveals a man in his mid twenties, definitely not a youngster just emerging from his teens. 'The Automobile' gives the name of his mechanic as Anthony Schudelare, which is somewhat different from the New York Times version. The alternative spelling may be an Anglicized version of Antonio Scudelari or it may be an Elliott Island perversion. I wonder who his mechanic was at the French Grand Prix.

Apart from his driving successes, 1908 "brought him into the limelight at the Florida beach races where he acted as mecanician to Cedrino and also drove his Fiat, establishing new amateur beach records." "As a racing driver Bruce-Brown was looked upon as the best, not only in America but in the entire world. Built around a rugged framework were as stout a set of muscles as any athlete of his age and height could boast of, a fact which made the racing car more or less a plaything in his hands so far as guiding it on the highway."

The general consensus seems to be that not only was he a top class driver, but he was also a fine man in every conceivable way. The cynic in me was left with the thought that the 'local' American commentators were being overly generous to Bruce-Brown......until I came across this tribute in the English publication 'The Motor' dated October 8, 1912.

"Bruce-Brown was typically American in his style of driving - ?????? craze for speed as soon as the word was given;.......a driver determined to get the most of it from beginning to end. But coupled with this wild dash was a consummate skill in the handling of his car, which is given to few men to possess. Bruce-Brown's work at the tire pits at Dieppe undoubtedly was the most brilliant Europe has ever seen. The leading continental drivers, men who have been trained to racing since the earliest days of the motor movement, were commonplace in comparison with the extraordinary combination of wild fury and calm reasoning shown in every movement of the American driver of only 5 or 4 years racing experience.

"His was a most charming personality, and he conveyed, insensibly, to all who observed him and his doings, the true racing atmosphere. His perfect preparations, the mastery of his car, the absolute absence of anything approaching 'playing to the gallery', his extraordinary strength, shown by the way he lifted great cans of spirit shoulder high for replenishments - all served to convey an impression of earnestness and thoroughness that no other racing driver quite conveyed, the nearest approach being perhaps Boillot. He was born a racing motorist, having all the pluck, power and vim necessary for so arduous a task, and his loss will be greatly felt."

Wow! Clearly he had made an impression on both sides of the Atlantic. Although he was essentially an amateur driver, he appears to have been more professional than those who raced for a living.

One last point Hans. Did you know that he had a middle name? I didn't. His full name was David Loney Bruce-Brown.

I realize that none of this helps to pinpoint his exact age at the time of his death, but I have to thank you for bringing the matter up in the first place. I now have a much deeper feeling for a driver who was previously little more than a name to me.

Regards,
Tony

[Ray Bell]

I just have to add my thanks to Tony and Hans for this material.

Like Tony, I have gained a much deeper appreciation of this virtual unknown through this exercise. Even if we still don't know the answer to the original question.

Though, from my first knowledge of him, I had an idea he was something special...

[Doug Nye]

Intriguing material - what kind of city area in that period was East Seventieth Street, New York City? Where, what, who was DLB-B's father????

DCN

[hil-nice]

Did somebody tried to get his death acte in the City House where he died ?

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I am sure that most have noticed the interesting article in the latest MotorSport regarding D B-B.

[Ray Bell]

I'll look forward to that, Dennis...

I won't see it for a couple of months yet, however. In the interim, does it mention his DOB?

[Vitesse2]

Silly question ...

[Ray Bell]

Oh, right...

The all historic Motor Sport... maybe it will come up in the letters column later?

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I knew that you folks would rise to this one.

Of course MS doesn't quote a specific DOB in their 5 page article on D B-B entitled "Those Whom The Gods Love".

The lead-in however reads as follows:

"American David Bruce-Brown had it all: money, good looks, talent - and at just 22 years of age, time, but, as Mark Hughes explains, his stellar career was cut tragically short".

Another interesting bit states that D B-B attended a prep school in Norfolk, Virginia by the name of Harstrom. I will be looking into this over the next few weeks as there may still exist some documentation regarding his DOB. I've not seen this reference on him previously.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury
I am sure that most have noticed the interesting article in the latest MotorSport regarding D B-B.

I read this article yesterday at our local bookstore. I almost bought this copy but luckily remembered that there were more facts and much more content in this thread. I am also pretty sure that there must exist an invisible (Lurking!) link between TNF and MS. Therefore it would have been a nice move of them to somehow credit Tony for his research efforts. No need to buy this issue unless for some interesting pictures of good quality. I saved the money for the magazine to pay instead for a second round of miniature golf with my 8-year old grandson, to which I am looking forward to. Need to sort priorities.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
I read this article yesterday at our local bookstore. I almost bought this copy but luckily remembered that there were more facts and much more content in this thread.

Hans, I agree. I have found more quality and quantity of information on D B-B here on TNF than I honestly believe exists anywhere else. Your work and the work of Tony on this subject has my sincere admiration.

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
I am also pretty sure that there must exist an invisible (Lurking!) link between TNF and MS. Therefore it would have been a nice move of them to somehow credit Tony for his research efforts.

I am so very glad to hear you say this Hans. I have had the same nagging thought, on this subject and several others. As a newcomer on TNF, I didn't have the courage to say the same as you so eloquently put.

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
I saved the money for the magazine to pay instead for a second round of miniature golf with my 8-year old grandson, to which I am looking forward to. Need to sort priorities.

I admire your priorities Hans. I still have the occasional MS weakness.

[Flying Panda]

hmmm, got a definative answer yet?

One that hasnt been mentionied, Scott Dixon won the Lehigh Valley Grand Prix, May 6 2001 at the age of 20 years, 10 months, 14 days

[D-Type]

Just a thought: If Bruce-Brown's mother was a bit of a socialite, would a birth announcement have been posted in a newspaper? Or didn't people do that in those days?

Thought 2: Where is he buried? Does his gravestone give DOB?

I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic to check it out myself.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by D-Type
Just a thought: If Bruce-Brown's mother was a bit of a socialite, would a birth announcement have been posted in a newspaper? Or didn't people do that in those days?

That's been thought of before! Unfortunately, it means trawling through several years of several daily and weekly papers! Last time I was in touch with Tony he was going to attempt this - I assume his silence means no luck! :

[dmj]

Slightly OT, but does any modelcar of a DBB racer exist? I know that Brumm issued some early Fiat GP cars but is any of these DBB's? Or maybe some other manufacturer did it?

[Doug Nye]

Perhaps the model makers might like some reference...David Bruce-Brown and Fiat:







Pix from The GP Library

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Fantastic, Doug!

I just can't imagine what a hero you'd have to be, what kind of a pioneer and innovator you'd become, to win in those monsters...

[dmj]

Could it be? The number is matching...

[Hans Etzrodt]

If anybody knows where David Bruce-Brown has been buried please let us know here. Any kind of lead may be helpful and could trigger further investigation, which seems to have stopped at present.

[robert dick]

In the description of the Milwaukee accident, Motor Age/Chicago, La Vie Automobile/Paris and Omnia/Paris gave the birth year and birth place of David Bruce Brown as “1887 in New York”, but no exact date (day/month). The Daimler-Chrysler archives/Stuttgart have nothing about him.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Doug - thanks for your illustrious ;) contribution, which elevate this thread to one of my most favorite status.

Robert - thanks for your findings. Any further leads are very much appreciated and will entice Tony to do further searches, time permitting.

[Doug Nye]

This may have been mentioned before - if so I apologise for having missed it.

In 1966 Temple Press Books in London published a book entitled 'Great Racing Drivers'. L. Scott Bailey wrote the chapter on David Bruce-Brown and appended the following intriguing footnote:

"In probing the Yale records, we discovered that Caleb S. Bragg, BruceBrown's team-mate, was a duly recorded graduate of Yale's class of 1908. When asked for a biography in 1939, Bragg replied: 'Before entering business I spent time travelling in Europe and America. My hobbies are the gasoline sports - automobiling, aviation and power boats.'

"The class historian delved further: 'Caleb S. Bragg was the first President of Yale's Automobile Club in 1908, set two world's records in a 90hp Fiat in 1910 and in 1912 won the fourth International Grand Prix at Milwaukee...'

"For example (sic), there are no records at Yale that show David Bruce-Brown as a student. Nor does any boxing team list" - he had been credited as a Yale boxer - "...reveal his name. Even the Shingle Hill event sponsored by the Yale Automobile Club and reported in the school's newspaper makes no mention of his prior association with that institution. The Social Register for the years 1907 to 1913 does list a Mrs George Bruce Brown and her two children, William Brown and David L/ Bruce Brown of 189 East 59th Street, New York City. But David Bruce-Brown's obituary lists his address as Brooklyn. His is a story yet to be fully plumbed...".

Which is interesting...or have these matters already been fully plumbed and sorted out and have I missed it by not paying attention????

DCN

PS - Or presumably this 'Yale' fixation all derives from Fred J. Wagner's original writings about Bruce-Brown who allegedly had "...introduced himself as...a student at Yale, but he was too much the true gentleman to add that he was the scion of a very wealthy and socially prominent New York family. His code in fact did not tolerate braggadocio of any sort...".

The Wagner story has him running away from his school to make a motor sporting trip 'to Florida' (for Ormond Beach and the Ormond-Daytona Speed Trials), joining the 'official' party on their train from Penn Station in New York City - "...his boxing instructor at Yale lending him enough money for the fare one way and hotel expenses for the duration of the meeting".

Did he never attend Yale at all, as Scott Bailey's researches (above) seem to reveal? Was the error then Fred Wagner's, and nothing to do at all with any wilful obscuration or impersonation on B-B's part - or quite the opposite?

After all...when he first met Wagner he was only a kid...and he was eager...

[Vitesse2]

I had seen something along the lines you suggest Doug - querying his attendance at Yale - but can't remember where I saw it: possibly on a website I bookmarked a while back which has now disappeared. This was a transcript of an article by Beverley Rae Kimes - I did get in touch with her, but she could provide no further clues. Nor could she remember which specific sources she'd used. :

The Social Register was a monthly publication for New York socialites - I've never seen a copy, so can't say exactly what's in it or what detail you can find in it. I tried to pin copies down in the New York Public Library, but they demand an enormous membership fee from non-NY residents, even for an Internet search of their catalogue!

So, if any New Yorkers out there fancy a trip to the library .....

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
...Did he never attend Yale at all, as Scott Bailey's researches (above) seem to reveal? Was the error then Fred Wagner's, and nothing to do at all with any wilful obscuration or impersonation on B-B's part - or quite the opposite?...

Most of the abstracts I have read about David Bruce-Brown, the one by Scott Bailey (1966), Cyril Posthumus (1971), Robert Cutter and Bob Fendell (1973) and Tim Considine (1997), are based on various parts from the book THE SAGA OF THE ROARING ROAD by Fred J. Wagner as told to John M. Mitchell (originally written in 1937). 'Wag's' account has been used here as the source, similarly written like Alfred Neubauer’s entertaining story, it was not necessarily 100% true i.m.h.o.

[Vitesse2]

I have found a couple of newspaper reports of David Bruce-Brown's death.

One, from the Fort Wayne Sentinel, includes a passage about DB-B's career which is a paraphrase of the report posted above by Hans and Tony, quoting the New York Times of October 2nd. Significantly, it was published THE SAME DAY, indicating that both writers must have used a common (printed?) source - the race programme perhaps, as there is also a picture, captioned "Bruce-Brown (Fiat)" in a different typeface to the body of the paper.

The Sentinel repeats the 1887 birthdate, as does the Fond du Lac Daily Commonwealth, again of the same date, which provides a much briefer appreciation, but again probably from the same source.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Intriguing material - what kind of city area in that period was East Seventieth Street, New York City? Where, what, who was DLB-B's father????

DCN

There are many references in the New York Times of the late nineteenth century to a David Bruce-Brown dealing in property, presumably our man's father.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Intriguing material - what kind of city area in that period was East Seventieth Street, New York City? Where, what, who was DLB-B's father????

DCN

http://www.picturehi.../1883/mcms.html

[Vitesse2]

Maybe getting a bit closer .....

US Census forms are now available on the net for 1890, 1900 and 1910, via www.ancestry.com - which requires a $39.95 fee for the use thereof: they also have an 1890 New York Directory. I've seen sample pages from 1870 and later, all of which record age at last birthday: we have the Bruce-Browns' address, so the rest should be simple

So, before I shell out 40 bucks for one query, does anyone know any friendly genealogists with full ancestry.com access?

[Richard Jenkins]

Richard, I've full ancestry subscription - I had to!
They also have censuses up to 1930 - let me know what you want me to check & I'll do it, not only for DBB but others if necessary - I have a free weekend!

[Vitesse2]

Thanks Richie, I had a feeling you might come up trumps here! Several to check out of this thread:

In 1912 Mrs B-B was reported living at 18 East Seventieth Street, plus a "country place" in Islip, Long Island.

DB-B was reported as a Brooklyn resident in the same year (no address - is 1910 indexed? In 1910 his permanent residence might still have been with his mother though.)

There is also another possible address for his mother: 189 East 59th Street - in 1890 or 1900 perhaps?

There's also the 1890 New York Directory to check!

I've already run a 1912 newspaper check at ancestry.com, which is where I came up with the two accident reports above. I also suspect that David LONEY Bruce-Brown may be a different person: a cousin? In which case we may be looking at two different Mrs Bruce-Browns too, one married to another David Bruce-Brown (Sr) and one to George Bruce-Brown. Still looking into that though ....

[Richard Jenkins]

Right, here's what I've found so far:-
A paper from Alaska(!) from November 1912 is the source of the information below:
DB-B's brother WAS William-Bruce Brown, which would mean our man IS David L Bruce-Brown & his mother IS Mrs. George Bruce-Brown. When Richard PM'd me this morning, I decided to discount the family & concentrate on DBB alone, but now I will look at WBB in more detail.


The same paper also said that his body was shipped over from Wisconsin & "he will be buried from the family residence".

On a side note, the same paper annouced a cure for cancer had been found that day! If only...

I have another newspaper report of the death significantly different from the ones mentioned above - interestingly, it has a different spelling of the mechanic - I have seen 6 different spellings already for him (including Scudaler), so I'm not going to follow that one up as it's too erratic.

The 2nd report is from Stevens Point Daily Journal, Stevens Point, Wisconsin, 2/10/1912:

Milwaukee - Oct 2 - David Bruce-Brown, the millionare auto racer, died in hospital here from injuries recieved when his Vanderbilt racing car jumped into a ditch & overturned. His mechanician Seudelari was seriously injured.
... Running at a speed of 99 mph , the Fiat blew a tyre after rounding the hairpin turn on the Vanderbilt xourse & plunged into the ditch. Bruce-Brown had been running almost neck and neck with Teddy Tetzlaff, also in a Fiat, and after rounding the hairpin, Tetzlaff forged to take the lead. Tetzlaff looked back after a short distance & was surprised to find Bruce-Brown's car had disappeared.
Surmising something was wrong, he turned back and came upon DBB 's crippled car in a ditch beside the track. Brown, his clothes torn & covered with dust was walking about with a limp, while Seudelari was lying in a ditch near the car.
An automobile with two physicans was rushed to the scene from a main tent hospital at the grandstand, and the conditions of the two men was such that they were immediately rushed to the Trinity Hospital.
Bruce-Brown was born in New York in 1887 & began racing in 1907, driving an Oldsmobile at the Empire City track, winning his novice race.... (career etc.)


As for censuses, the barrelled surname is causing a few problems thus far. I have found a David H Brown of Brooklyn who worked in real estate, whose son is also called David, but probably a red-herring considering the above information from the Alaska paper. There is a New York Births Record but starts in 1891!! - there is a New York Deaths but ends in 1910!!, there is a Winsconsin Deaths - ends 1907!! close but no cigars!

The New York Directory is no good for DBB himself - it lists name & profession - not age & not family details. I found that David H Brown had a son called David from another source. I'll have another crack later today but I thought'd I've give some information to digest - but it is looking considerably like is 1887, especially as this report is different from the three already mentioned.