40 replies to this topic

[A3]

Is it possible to make the number of subscribers publicly available? I'd like to know how Atlas' doing at the moment because there are still a lot of people saying that Atlas won't last with the subscription model.

I'd like to hear that Atlas is doing better than ever !;)

[RedBaron]

I think I worked it out that 8000 subscribers are needed and they need to keep subscribing each year to keep AtlasF1 at a non-loss status, so with the 2.5 millions hits per month and the amount of people who like and are subscribing to Atlas and plus all the new features that have and I am sure will be added more than enough should join...?
And if more than 8000 join then there should be enough people to make a profit and maybe the price will go down.

Be afraid people, be very afraid - as banner adverts pay out goes lower F1 sites may all soon be pay-per-view, and if AtlasF1 is sucessful, they they will all seen no reason why they wouldn't follow, but AtlasF1 being many peoples favourite F1 site will have a head start.

[Khan]

RedBaron, I think Bira said it was 1.5M unique visitors per month, not 2.5. (I still have a small question about this number - everyone who's on a dial up connection gets a different IP number every time he connects... so how unique 1.5M are? Is there some formula estimating the real number of different visitors from the unique IP data?)

Also, I think Bira said they expected 5000 subs in the first year.

She also said she'll give us an update after the Monaco GP *hint*.

Khan

[Triton]

I for one would like to know how's the take-up rate for the subscription.
Gives us paying users some idea as to whether AtlasF1 will be around next year ;)

[Rene]

Couldnt agree more with you....Bira the envelope please

[Paul]

Everything is good. Thanks to an excellent group of subscribers to the team, we are above our targets.

I don't see every F1 site going subscription. However, it is working well for us.

I hate to say never but, I don't see Atlas F1 ever being without a subscription again. I apologize to those of you who strongly desire a format which is entirely free. But, our responsibility is now to please those who join the team.

A3: Atlas is doing better than ever.

[Ghostrider]

That is excellent news!

[A3]

Thanks Paul, indeed good news !

I'd like to point some other people to this thread, so I'm going to quote a bit from one of Bira's earlier posts.

How many subscribers are you expecting? How many signed up already?

We were hoping for about 2,000 in the first months and 5,000 in the first year.

We need to eventually to stabilise on about 6,000 to 8,000 subscribers.

In the first 36 hours since we opened subscription, 1,000 people have subscribed, 90% of them for an anual subscription.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

I kinda followed this fuzz about subscribing or not subscribing from a distance but subscribed anyway because from one day to another I had to change my bookmarks if I didn't. Than I it crossed my tormented memory that I still had a password here so I could actually give my own public comments......what a relief. I think it sucks, I think it stinks, but I think it sucks and stinks even more to miss some parts of this site so I joined.

However.......Personally I strongly dislike the hunt for "copyrightintruders" that was started f.e. on verstappen.nl. Pasting for example Mitch' comments makes this site more attractive to visit for those who don't know it. It does not reduce the number of subscribers cos people that do not support the way of working of this site and only click on it for the news(or lack of it) will never subscribe. It is like "stealing" shampoo or soap from a hotel. It costs a little but brings more.

Bartus(who is has not yet made up his mind about re-publishing the Jos Watch' in his virtual living room yet)

[A3]

Welcome Bartus, I sorta expected you.

When you signed up, you agreed to the following:

All information (text or otherwise) published on the Atlas F1 website is protected by copyright and is the sole property of KAIZAR.COM, Inc., unless mentioned otherwise. It is intended solely for the private use of the individual reader and may not under any circumstances be retransmitted in any form, repackaged in any way or resold through any media, commercial or otherwise, without the prior written permission of KAIZAR.COM, Inc..

The discussion about pasting info from this site stops there. If you don't agree, don't sign. That's my humble opinion.

However.......Personally I strongly dislike the hunt for "copyrightintruders" that was started f.e. on verstappen.nl.

The hunt? What are you on about?
1 e-mail from Bira that was published by the webmaster from the forum of www.verstappen.nl asking to remove copied AtlasF1 articles.
Then I said that I would notify Bira if I saw a person pasting AtlasF1 articles on the forum. I also said that I didn't expect that to happen because Eric (webmaster) clearly had asked everybody not to paste AtlasF1 articles. In hindsight, my comment probably wasn't necessary, because I think Eric will keep an eye on it. Obviously, after making this comment, everybody was flaming me, but so be it. The fact that somebody else on that forum probably notified Atlas (It wasn't me) didn't really matter because there was a victim readily available. I can take it, bring it on.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

I guess you haven't read the forum cos I admitted that it was me who teased Mitch by sending him a link. I have no further arguments to add, I just said I haven't made up my mind about what is right or wrong. The fact that you seem to know so well the differance is not prooven by the violation that you are making on Jos' copyrights by using his logo without having permission. To me you are the guy that is complaining about his stolen bike allthough initially you did not pay for it yourself.

Bartus(who thinks hypocracy is an act of violence)

[A3]

I did read that post, but for me it was not clear if you were serious or not.

As I said on the Verstappen forum, you're right about the avatar, I have send an e-mail asking for permission.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

I was serious, as always. AFAIK I am not related to Nostradamus but I can tell you allready now what the webmaster is going to say. The answer will be NO because he does not own the rights. It is Jos' personal managementholding that owns the rights and if they would reply the answer would be NO as well.

Can I suggest a tulip for the future?

Bartus(who loves those real Dutch tokens like tulips)((and joints offcourse))

[A3]

If it's a No, I'll remove it. Don't have any problem with that.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

You are missing the point at large. I do not have a problem with it since you do not have bad intentions by acting as you do. That is the same for the violators, they are not gaining anything by publishing some bits and pieces of drivel that, for some strange reasons, is contaminated with copyrights. Never mind, I'll make up my mind and act accordingly, whatever the consequences are.

Bartus(who seems so be misunderstood rather easily these days)

[A3]

I'm not missing the point, I was just acting accordingly to your childisch comments on the verstappen forum. (IMHO) I did get permission to use the pic btw, they are aware of it already for a long time.

As I said before, I may have been a little overreacting with my comments, but that's because I have an enormous respect for the people who run Atlas. Folks who don't know the ins & outs of this site won't understand and I no longer care, because now I know I'll get flamed when I try to explain something.

I won't play a detective and search for Atlas articles, but if I see a person copy & paste several complete articles just so that others can read it, then yes, I'll probably tell Atlas. Hate me for something I may do in the future, I don't care. But think of this, if I never had made those comments you'd seen me as the nice guy I am while I may have been telling Atlas behind your back. I've learned a lesson for the future; Don't be to honest with anonymous people behind a computer.


If you feel that you're misunderstood often, try to come to the point directly and don't build a story around it. It may help people to focus on the point you're tying to make. No offence, just some advice.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

Why is it that people keep on bugging me if I allready made my point, and even worse, acuse me of being childish? For the last time, and please save the effort of responding.....

The "fight" against copyrightviolations on the net has been lost at the moment that this medium was conquered by others than teaching professors and obeying students. Lets say 7 years ago. It is a fact of life and it is better and more productive to count your blessings and make the best out of it than to think you can stop it. Didn't you ever use illegal software? No? OK, nice to meet you, jezus!

Bartus(who hates to spill his energy on denying facts of life and thinks that Don Quichotte has died centuries ago)

[A3]

Bugging you? who was the one who jumped on ME in the Verstappen forum. I don't recall me comparing you with NSB-ers in WW2, do you? Please don't make me laugh.

Why do I keep responding? Because you are drawing wrong decisions about me, because of one little comment I made.

-Never did I say that I tried to protect all the copyrights on the Internet.

-Never did I say that I would start a witch-hunt on offenders.

I simply said that I would protect Atlas if needed because of my personal experiences with this website and because of the respect I have for the people that run it.

Do you understand me now??

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

Nobody here now's what an NSB-er is and I did not use that word, did I? And the "respect" that you are mentioning in just about every single post that you do here, might give the victims of this respect the impression that you are begging for a free membership.

Bartus(who thinks Max might rather well know what an NSB-er is)

[A3]

No you didn't use that word, but you implied it, it's the damn same isn't it? And I don't care if other people don't know what it means, I'm talking to you, am I not?

And the "respect" that you are mentioning in just about every single post that you do here, might give the victims of this respect the impression that you are begging for a free membership.

Oh please, you're really losing it now. Unlike you, I think the people here know me better than that.

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by A3
No you didn't use that word, but you implied it, it's the damn same isn't it? And I don't care if other people don't know what it means, I'm talking to you, am I not?

Well in that case maybe you should take this to private email rather than a public forum then?

[A3]

You're right, I should rephrase that last sentence:

I'll explain what an NSB-er is if people are interested.

[Khan]

Good, so get it over with and go post yer acronym in the acronym thread.

[A3]

I don't think an NSB-er is very appropriate for the Acronym thread.

During WW2 there were dutch people that collaborated with the Germans. These traitors were were members of the NSB; Nationaal Socialistiche Beweging - National Socialistic Movement. These bastards were pointing the Germans to families who hid Jews for example.

[Khan]

So I was close. I thought it meant Nazi Son of a B!tch.

[PeaQ]

stop the fight gorls...
You know, some people would pay money to see this kind of fights...

Meow....

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

As you said yourself before.......whatever. Your interpretations of what I wrote are your sole responsability and I don't mind if you drag Chang Kai Tjech, Bokassa, Saddam Hoessein and the Red Khmer into this thread as well, acusing me of things I have not said at all. Go ahead, enjoy the crowd, make a fool outof yourself, it's your day!

It took me some time but I made up my mind. Now I did and you'll see what happens. After that I am more than willing to restart this discussion. Have a nice race.

Bartus(who is going to stop responding here cos it brings less than carrying water to the sea)

[Khan]

Last word freak.... (remembering As Good As it Gets)

[A3]

I'm not a freak !

Originally posted by Bartus Garoulaitis
acusing me of things I have not said at all. Go ahead, enjoy the crowd, make a fool outof yourself, it's your day!

You lying ...... You know damn well what you wrote and what you meant.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

You just swallowed the baite.....

Rule nr 1: In discussing: Don't let your emotions interfer unless u make use off'em as a tool.

Rule nr 2: Attack the enemies' arguments, don't attack the enemy itself.

Ghehehehe, the ice beneath your feet seems to be floating in the Carribean by the end of july.

Bartus(who likes these kind of games)

[baddog]

bartus, as an individual unaffiliated to atlas myself, there are a couple of facts I feel you need to make yourself aware of.

Copyright law most certainly DOES still exist and have force on the internet. It may be more difficult to enforce but it most certainly still exists as many organisations and individuals have found to their cost.

As part of your membership agreement to atlasf1 you agreed not to breach the copyrights of the sites owners. If you post material in breach of that copyright you are in breach of your contract with them and are subject to cancellation of that agreement in addition to any legal recourse.

You are entitled under both internationally recognised copyright laws and the stated policy of the site owners to reporduce sections of articles that do not represent the substantial body of those articles for purposes such as support of a discussion you are taking part in or somesuch 'personal' use. Publication of articles in their substantial entirity without permission is a breach of that copyright as well as a contractual breach on your part.

Shaun

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

Hmmmm, I seem to be running into judges unexpectedly and more frequent than I could ever dream off. You might not have taken the time, nor had the interest to read the entire discussion that I have had with A3 on this subject here and on verstappen.nl, Shaun, but if you had, you might have noticed that I am not starting a crusade against copyright nor do I deny the rights that you have. What I have tried to make clear is that a pragmatic approach towards copyrights is better than a zero-tolerance attitude. I did not indirectly critisize Bira for trying to protect Atlas' rights, I just thought it was not the right way to approach a webmaster of a forum with a request to remove articles. A decent webmaster will mostprobably respect such a request and act accordingly. After that A3 made public that he would report any violations to Bira I got a bit pissed and that triggered this thread and my rather blunt approach as well. I strongly dislike that kind of behaviour, it leads to idiotic excesses like you can see on davidcoulthard.com for the moment and doesn't bring a solution, if such a thing exists, closer. I'll tell you what my personal opinion is and what I would have done.

Personally I pay for getting news and I absorbe and reproduce that news by giving my view on things. We all learn and reproduce, it is in fact a goal of life for people that call theirsselves parents, teachers or feel the responsability to improove the attitude or level of knowledge of people they meet. If I pay here to read a technical preview f.e. and I am discussing with somebody in any forum or ng about the same issues I feel free, and am free to use that knowledge. That is something else than c&p the article in full to other pages but it starts giving a picture of the core of the problem that we are approaching now. If I am, as a regular visitor and poster on the forum of verstappen.nl, entertained by f.e. the articles of Mitch I feel free to c&p for example a few lines from the Jos Watch and paste that on the forum. The reason for doing that is the same as the reason for other posts, sharing knowledge and enriching it by discussion. You know that, I know that and Bira knows that as well. In the particular case, since the "harm" had allready been done, it was too late to correct it or prevent it from happening and a message like: He, we saw what happened, we do not like it, please inform the poster that did it, what the consequences can be and tell him not to do it again. Second part of the message should be something like: "We know some of you are following the articles of Mitch with special interest, if you mention where and how people can find the total article we allow you to publish the Verstappen-related parts on the forum sothat we get more visitors/supporters and we do not need to keep on bugging you." I referred to the "stealing soaps and shampoos from hotels" issue a bit higher in this thread to compare the effects. When I said that I made up my mind that was in fact what I planned to do. I do not want to look like A3 so I will say this only once but I like the work that you and your compatriots have been doing over the last years and that is why I joined after some hesitation to support your goals and in fact my own by supporting you. So I guess I am jeopardizing my anual contribution by acting as I just described but I must admitt that I am rather curious to hear what a judge thinks when a subsriber is going to c&p lets say 10% of an article to another website because of the fact that this specific 10% is about his fav driver.

Bartus(who hopes that Jos does the things that prevent Mitch from writing about him)

[Khan]

Originally posted by Bartus Garoulaitis
I am rather curious to hear what a judge thinks when a subsriber is going to c&p lets say 10% of an article to another website because of the fact that this specific 10% is about his fav driver.

Originally posted by baddog
You are entitled under both internationally recognised copyright laws and the stated policy of the site owners to reporduce sections of articles that do not represent the substantial body of those articles for purposes such as support of a discussion you are taking part in or somesuch 'personal' use. Publication of articles in their substantial entirity without permission is a breach of that copyright as well as a contractual breach on your part.

Originally posted by Bartus Garoulaitis
You might not have taken the time, nor had the interest to read the entire discussion that I have had with A3 on this subject here and on verstappen.nl, Shaun, but if you had...

Khan

P.S. I just think you're working off your 30 'Full Member' posts
P.P.S. And that whole bit about 'reproduction' is such BS.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

If that 30 posts should put me in the same league as people like you Khan, I guess I'll ask a new pass at 29.......

Bartus(who has spend more than 2 years reaching 15)

[Khan]

yeah, whatever

[PeaQ]

Meow...

[baddog]

bartus, it seems odd that you should make some remark about me failing to read your entire discussion on another board (of course I havent doe so, I dont and wont go to verstappen.nl) but you failed seemingly to even read my one post!

just to clear it up:

I AM NOT AFFILIATED TO ATLASF1. The judge thing is just a bulletin board status to do with the court forum, I have no interest in nor authority to speak for AtlasF1 in any way on any issue. My remarks are personal and do not represent the views of the owners or publishers of this site.

As for the fact of publishing snippets from articles, I made perfectly clear my opinion about that, as khan noted. This is just my opinion, but I do know that bira has previously indicated that pasting of small segments of articles is okay in general (this being normal copyright procedure)

Shaun

[A3]

Bartus, you've lost the little respect I still had for you, bye bye now.

[Bartus Garoulaitis]

I might not understand the word judge, Shaun, but who or what has granted this title to you, and what are you doing with it than?

Bartus(who used to think that judges judge)

O, for my friend A3, it seems we're sharing something......

[Khan]

The Mandate Of The AtlasF1 Court

[Paul]

Ok, the thread went off topic. Apologies, but I am locking it down.

Paul