Jump to content


Photo

Portugese Grand Prix 1965


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 23 June 2001 - 09:20

In Doug Nye's Cooper book there is a picture of 2 F3 Coopers running in line astern (John Fenning and Rodney Banting) in the 1965 Portugese Grand Prix. This race, apparently, was held at a circuit called CASCAIS.
Posted Image
Clearly it is a road circuit, but I have not been able to find it on Darren Galpin's wonderful track database. I believe that Estoril is near Cascais, but this track is obviously not Estoril, which was not even built then! It seems that the circuit length was a fraction over 2 miles (45 laps = 94 miles) so can anyone chuck a bit of illumination on this one.

Advertisement

#2 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 5,997 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 23 June 2001 - 11:18

I can't tell you much about the circuit, but the race was 25 July. Banting won and Fleming was black flagged for overtaking at the St. Marta bridge, which was apparantly forbidden. Jeff Uren was disqualifed from the touring car race for twice doing the same thing.

#3 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,845 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 23 June 2001 - 11:45

No details on the circuit, but there was another F3 GP the next year at Cascais, won by Jurg Dubler in a Brabham-Ford.

Then in 1967 the race apparently moved to somewhere called Montes Claros and was won by Carlos Gaspar in a Brabham BT21-Ford.

In 1968 it was a sports car race, again at Montes Claros and again Gaspar won, this time in a GT40!!

1969: sports cars again, Montes Claros, won by Manuel Pinto in a Porsche Carrera 6.

So where was Montes Claros? It's existence is acknowledged on the www.racingcircuits.com site, but no details ....

#4 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 5,997 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 23 June 2001 - 16:55

Montes Claros was at Monsanto near Lisbon, but whether it was the same circuit as used in the 50s, I don't know.

#5 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 June 2001 - 17:42

Barry,

you can send an e-mail to Vasco, a portuguese chap who used to post at this forum a while ago. He's very interested in the story of the old racing tracks, and I'm sure he'll be glad helping you.

#6 Luís Sampaio

Luís Sampaio
  • New Member

  • 13 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 07 August 2002 - 00:21

Between 1960 and 1984 there was some events in Potugal that called "Grande Prémio de Portugal" that ran under minor formulas or GT's.

As Follow...

10Âș. GP Portugal (GT)
Cascais (I don't Know anything about the lay-out)
Cascais is (very) near to Estoril

26th July 1964
45 laps x 3450m

1Âș. R. C. Kerrision (Ferrari GTO)
2Âș. MĂĄrio de AraĂșjo Cabral (Lotus Elan)
3Âș. AntĂłnio Peixinho (Lotus Elan)

________

11Âș. GP Portugal (F3)
Cascais

25th July 1965
45 laps x 3450m

1Âș. Rodney Banting (Cooper)
2Âș. John Fenning (Cooper)
3Âș. Charles Stuart (Brabham)

__________

12Âș. GP Portugal (F3)
Cascais

24th July 1966
50 laps x 3450m

1Âș. Jurg Dubler (Brabham)
2Âș. John Fenning (Brabham)
3Âș. Chris Williams (Brabham)

The 84' Portuguese Grand Prix received the official name of 4Âș. Grande PrĂ©mio de Portugal but it was called by the press at that time as 13Âș. Grande PrĂ©mio de Portugal, so de 1967 and 1968 events won by Carlos Gaspar wasn't Portuguese GP's.

In adiction, Montes Claros Circuit and Monsanto Park are the same phisical circuits but Montes Clares is a shorter version of the 1959 Grand Prix circuit with the start at the other point that was not included in GP circuit.

#7 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 21 August 2002 - 21:42

hello everybody
after some deserved sabathical months (in what concerned about cars), I'm back

I have some infos about the Portuguese GP that I will post here tomorrow.
see you then

#8 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 22 August 2002 - 14:41

Hello Again,
As I've said yesterday, here are the winners of the Portuguese Fr Grand Prix.
The GP was held for 25 editions between 1951 and 1996, and was not held in 1956, 1961-63 and 1967-1983. From 1951 to 1960 it was raced either in Boavista or Monsanto. 1964-66 period saw the race move to Cascais, a city only 5 or 6 miles from the actual Estoril Circuit. It was a street circuit parallel to the sea by one side (I think I have a draw of the layout but I don't know were), and the city by the other. It was 3,450 km long, and there was a narrow bridge, in fact so narrow that 2 cars didn't pass side by side (that's why anybody who tried to overtake between the corner and the bridge's entrance, will be penalized). Only three GP's were held here 1964-66. The Montes Claros circuit was in the same spot the Monsanto circuit was before, but it was shorter and narrower in some parts. There where races there from 1962 to 1971, but none was a GP of portugal. The next GP took place only in 1984 in the actual Estoril circuit.

GRANDE PRÉMIO DE PORTUGAL

GRANDE PRÉMIO DE PORTUGAL

Year Date Ed. Circuit Winner Nat. Car Cat.
1951 Jun. 17 I Boavista Casimiro de Oliveira P Ferrari 340 America CoupéVignale Sport
1952 Jun. 22 II Boavista Eugénio Castelotti I Ferrari 225 S Sport
1953 Jun. 21 III Boavista José Nogueira Pinto P Ferrari 250 MM Spider Vignale Sport
1954 Jun. 27 IV Monsanto José Froilan Gonzalez RA Ferrari Sport
1955 Jun. 27 V Boavista Jean Behra F Maserati 300S Sport
1957 Jun. 9 VI Monsanto Juan Manuel Fangio RA Maserati 300S Sport
1958 Aug. 24 VII Boavista Stirling Moss GB Vanwall F1 F1
1959 Aug. 23 VIII Monsanto Stirling Moss GB Cooper T51-Climax F1
1960 Aug. 14 IX Boavista Jack Brabham AUS Cooper T53-Climax F1
1964 Jul. 26 X Cascais R.Chris Kerrison GB Ferrari 250 GTO GT
1965 Jul. 25 XI Cascais Rodney Banting GB Cooper T-76-Cosworth F3
1966 Jul. 24 XII Cascais Jurg Dubler CH Brabham BT18A-Cosworth F3
1984 Oct. 21 XIII Estoril Alain Prost F McLaren MP4/2-TAG Porsche F1
1985 Apr. 21 XIV Estoril Ayrton Senna BR Lotus 97T-Renault F1
1986 Sep. 21 XV Estoril Nigel Mansell GB Williams FW11-Honda F1
1987 Sep. 20 XVI Estoril Alain Prost F McLaren MP4/3-TAG Porsche F1
1988 Sep. 25 XVII Estoril Alain Prost F McLaren MP4/4-Honda F1
1989 Sep. 24 XVIII Estoril Gerhard Berger A Ferrari F1-89 F1
1990 Sep. 23 XIX Estoril Nigel Mansell GB Ferrari 641/2 F1
1991 Sep. 22 XX Estoril Riccardo Patrese I Williams FW14-Renault F1
1992 Sep. 27 XXI Estoril Nigel Mansell GB Williams FW14B-Renault F1
1993 Sep. 26 XXII Estoril Michael Schumacher D Benetton B193-Ford F1
1994 Sep. 25 XXIII Estoril Damon Hill GB Williams FW16B-Renault F1
1995 Sep. 24 XXIV Estoril David Coulthard GB Williams FW17B-Renault F1
1996 Sep. 22 XXV Estoril Jacques Villeneuve CDN Williams FW18-Renault F1

Hope that this answer your questions

#9 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 22 August 2002 - 18:31

Now if I were Homer Simpson, I would now be saying "DOH!" - very loudly.

My good lady and I were in Cascais this June. I had no idea that there had ever been a race circuit there and those who know of my circuit interests will realise how that makes me feel! :(

Worse still, we walked from the town centre out to Boca do Inferno, which involved, I suspect, walking across the narrow bridge mention by Brickyard in the previous post. So I walked along a lot of the circuit - and didn't know it! :cry: :( :mad:

I have scoured my video and I have just a brief glimpse of the bridge. I will post a still but it is not very good. I will also post a map of Cascais with a red arrow pointing to where that bridge is. Perhaps someone else can indicate the actual line of the circuit.

#10 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 22 August 2002 - 18:36

Here is the map of Cascais. The bridge is somewhere near the red arrow at the bottom of the image.
Posted Image

And here is the poor image of the bridge. If only I had known......
Posted Image

#11 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 22 August 2002 - 20:43

Well Barry, you sure were in the right spot.
At the time some newspapers called the circuit the "Boca do Inferno Circuit" because part of it was in the street that passes just by side. Very sad I am not to see your post sooner... :blush:

BTW "boca do inferno" means "mouth of hell", and if you noticed, the sound the sea makes on the hole, specialy in the winter days, is very frightning...

I've found the map of the circuit, and I will send it for you, because I can't post it here (I'll try but I doubt I can do it, I never could post here a photo) :blush:

In your map it's dificult to tell the layout because there are some changes from those days, and not every road is represented.

Just wait, and you'll have it.

brickyard :wave:

#12 Udo K.

Udo K.
  • Member

  • 649 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 25 August 2002 - 13:15

Originally posted by brickyard
1964 Jul. 26 X Cascais R.Chris Kerrison GB Ferrari 250 GTO GT
1965 Jul. 25 XI Cascais Rodney Banting GB Cooper T-76-Cosworth F3

[/B]



Does anybody know the complete results of the 1964 and 1965 races.
For 1964 I only have Kerrison as the winner, for the F3 race of 1965 I have top three only.

#13 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 26 August 2002 - 18:17

QUOTE]Does anybody know the complete results of the 1964 and 1965 races.For 1964 I only have Kerrison as the winner, for the F3 race of 1965 I have top three only.[[/QUOTE]

I think I have. Give a day to check where.;)

#14 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 27 August 2002 - 17:26

I've found the cascais circuit map

http:///www.geocitie...otocascais.html

#15 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 27 August 2002 - 17:28

:blush: As I have told latelly, my images didn't work

:cry: :cry: :cry:

#16 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,845 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 August 2002 - 21:06

Geocities sites don't like outside links I'm afraid. If you can email the map to me I'll post it for you :)

RichardVitesse@aol.com

#17 brickyard

brickyard
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 27 August 2002 - 21:37

:up: Thaks Vitesse

consider it done

#18 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,845 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 August 2002 - 22:47

Posted Image

#19 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 28 August 2002 - 20:40

Thanks for posting the map, Brickyard and Vitesse. :up:

So I DID walk along part of the circuit, but not quite as much as I thought. I imagined that the track came through the big square by the harbour, then ran up the hill to the barracks, turned right, then left and out over the bridge. In fact, it never went very close to the centre of town.

Anyway, had I known about this track, you can rest assured that I would have walked the whole circuit.

Advertisement

#20 mindprobe

mindprobe
  • New Member

  • 13 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 09 October 2002 - 13:02

I've made a map of the Cascais circuit using aerial photos, does anyone want's it? Also did the same with Monsanto, of course Montes Claros is included in this one.

#21 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 09 October 2002 - 17:06

Having walked around part of the first one and been driven around the whole of the second - YES, PLEASE!

#22 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 2,159 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 09 October 2002 - 22:01

Now I know what Derek Butcher based the layout of Knockhill on