56 replies to this topic

[Ali_G]

A while back ye added the posts per day feature to the profile because of popular demand. And to save Slcik a lot of time.

But how about adding a little more.

everyone here just loves statistics. At least i do.

One thing you also added was how many posts were made by certain people in threads. Great idea.

But how about this one.

Showing how many posts a poster has don in seperate forums.

Could be interesting.

Niall

[FW11B]

Yes, Could be interesting.

How about the number of times a post has been read, and not necessarily replied to, I have noted that other BB's have this capability.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by FW11B
How about the number of times a post has been read, and not necessarily replied to, I have noted that other BB's have this capability.

Not only do I fail to see the relevance of this, but furthermore you should be aware that this feature on other boards counts every time the link to a thread has been clicked on, and includes the people coming back to check the replies several times. The figures given can therefore be highly misleading.

[f1sl]

Originally posted by Ali_G


One thing you also added was how many posts were made by certain people in threads

Holly geez you said "you" not "ye"

[bira]

Nope

[Captain Cook]

A statistics soup could be created through the development of a "vote" forum. The voting matter could be set by Atlas administrators. Individual votes could be cast on an "open ballot" or "closed ballot" basis. Thus a potential voting history could be created for each user.

Increased participation.
Ease of use, for people who couldn't be bothered posting.

Then again, if it ain't broke......;)

[FW11B]

Originally posted by Pascal

Not only do I fail to see the relevance of this, but furthermore you should be aware that this feature on other boards counts every time the link to a thread has been clicked on, and includes the people coming back to check the replies several times. The figures given can therefore be highly misleading.

I just thought it would be interesting to see how many were actually interested to see what you had to say even if they were not inclined to reply.

However now that the principles have been explained I can see how pointless it would be.

[Khan]

Yes, but the 'posts per forum' stat still makes a lot of sense. If I reply to someone's post, I'd like to know if he's, say, a Technical forum regular, or a PC jester....

[bira]

and exactly because such stigmas, you will not get those kind of stats.

[Khan]

oh comeon...

what about the division into new member, member and golden member? do they carry zero bad stigma karma? you say it as though I intend to disrespect one's posts because he's 'from' the PC, whilst I thought about the opposite - that I might ask someone more detailed questions because he's 'from' the Technical forum.

Oh, and this is not an attack on the PC ;)

Khan.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by bira
and exactly because such stigmas, you will not get those kind of stats.

I doubt very much that more information on members, which specifically relates to their involvement with Atlas F1, would entrench stigmas. Quite the opposite in fact.

Could you clear up confusion on a particular point. I have seen Atlas F1 refer to its readership as a community before. How is this community structured? Your statement (quoted above) seems to view the situation as a family, with administrators as parents and the readership as the narrow minded eye poking offspring!!

No need to take that badly, it could be interpreted as a comment on your fecundant ways.;)

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by Ali_G
One thing you also added was how many posts were made by certain people in threads. Great idea.

I guess that's why they put it in. Ever clicked on the #replies in the main thread page?

Guess not then.

[Ali_G]

Mosquito: Ah, if you press that button it only lines up the threads in order of most replies.

Bira: The idea behind this is so that others can get a better idea behind each poster. See how they are inclinded.

if I was to come to the forum i would like to know who are technically minded and who likes nostalgia. or who likes to complain to the admins a lot.;)

Niall

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by Ali_G
Mosquito: Ah, if you press that button it only lines up the threads in order of most replies.

Nonono....

Press on the number in the column of #replies.

It will show you this for that thread: http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=23994

[Khan]

Here's an idea... make the extra stats optional (and 'off' by default). After all if I write in my profile that I'm a Michael Schumacher fan it would certainly create major stigmas with some posters on the BB. But it's still my choice - I can leave that line blank.


Khan.

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by Khan
Here's an idea... make the extra stats optional (and 'off' by default). After all if I write in my profile that I'm a Michael Schumacher fan it would certainly create major stigmas with some posters on the BB. But it's still my choice - I can leave that line blank.

Khan.

Ever heard the saying: "When a woman says no, she means no"?;)

[Slick]

Originally posted by Mosquito
Ever heard the saying: "When a woman says no, she means no"?;)

I thought the saying was "When Bira says no she means it, and don't argue"

Plus I'm very greatful I don't have to produce those stats anymore, not that I had to in the first place

[The Swerve]

Just because I post mostly in PC these days doesn't mean I want to be 'associated' with that forum. I also post in RC too, because I know as much about F1 as anyone else in there.

If you want to get an idea of who people are then click the 'find other posts by...' link and have a browse.

[MrAerodynamicist]

How about the ability for everbody to rate other posters out of ten. Then you could have a "quality of replying members" stats











;)

[The Swerve]

Mr A - nil points.


;)

[Khan]

Optional, Swerve. I did say optional.

[The Swerve]

Well if it's optional what's the point?

Just go into your profile and add 'I am a Technical Forum Geek' or whatever, and then everyone will know who you are and what interests you. This whole thing is a result of you being too lazy to actually find out what people are like through their posts.

[Khan]

So basically the fact that posts are counted at all is due to everyone just being too lazy to go out and count themselves?

And what's the point of half the profile fields if they're optional anyway? After all, if I wanted to know someone's birthday, I could just go over and look through the Paddock Club 'Happy Birthday' threads, could I? But then, lazyness has always been one of my virtues.

[The Swerve]

I guessed as much.;)

[Captain Cook]

The Swerve:

You recommend trawling through threads to obtain information regarding individuals. To obtain any worthwhile information one would have to read entire threads (presuming the individual in question was capable of multi-line posts). One would have to do this as the comments made by the individual must be taken in context.

I ,like the vast majority of people, am mortal. That is, why should I pour hours down the drain when the information I am seeking could be available at a single (ok, perhaps two) mouse click(s).

This information does not have to be obtained through duress. No demands should, or need to be placed, on users.

A simple voluntary database could serve the discerning poster well.

I understand that the capacity exists for users to create this for themselves (through various options on the "Profile" list). I (amongst others) am completely ignorant when it comes to creating web pages. Atlas F1 is the service provider in this case. It would be foolish for Atlas F1 to rely on its customers in this way.

A clear definition of what exactly the "Atlas F1 community" is would serve us all well in this discussion. Is there one forthcoming? This is (I believe) my third time of asking.

Atlas F1 could benifit as well. Information on consumers is a necessity to any expanding business. This would admittedly be a far from perfect representation of the average customer but information is always valuable......

I hope you will respond to this in the manner in which it was addressed. That is to say I hope you do not disregard the fundamental points of this post as you did with "Khan"s.

Change is hard but inevitable..........

[Khan]

CC, nice posting lately (thanks for reopening the thread and not making me sound like a last word freak ;) )

I just want to put up the 'Favourite Driver/Team' field as an example. Suppose I write that my Favourite Driver is Michael Schumacher. Swerve: optional? Yes. Can be obtained via some thread skimming? Yes. Bira: does that create a stigma about me? Yes.

So why it is there?

My point is, the extra stats thingie, it's not that important. If you don't want to do it - don't. Just don't use arguments such as the above to reason why you're not doing it, because they're, well, flawed.


Khan

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by Khan
CC, (thanks for reopening the thread and not making me sound like a last word freak ;) )
Khan

Who are you calling a last word freak?

"My point is, the extra stats thingie, it's not that important. If you don't want to do it - don't. Just don't use arguments such as the above to reason why you're not doing it, because they're, well, flawed. "

Exactly.

[Ali_G]

Well I got borde so I made a Pie Chart showin where I post most often.



Interesting stuff.

Niall

[The Swerve]

Dear Captain,

You do not need to have any web editing skills to modify your bulletin board profile. You simply click on it an make the changes. It's ever so easy and if you get stuck I'm sure plenty of people will pitch in to help.;) Atlas already has information on it's community. Last year we all filled in a readers survey and the info was processed by Atlas.

I already dislike the elitist attitude that you sometimes get in the Tech forum and the Nostalgia forum, where often you hear regular posters there sniff at those of us who frequent RC or PC. (disclaimer: not all, but some)

I stand by my previous statement though - if you want to find out about someone then you get into a conversation with them. If you simply dismiss the contribution of some posters because you percieve them to be 'Paddock Club Jesters' (Khan's words not mine) then you are being very narrowminded.

The bulletin board is a community, not a information database. If you can't be bothered to thumb through old posts or get stuck in to a thread to learn more about F1 then you always have places like Forix to hunt out information.

Anyway, effectively the request you make has already been granted - check peoples profile for information on them. Users can voluntarly add info about themselves there.

[Captain Cook]

The Swerve:

Thank you for the considered response. I believe I have discovered the root of our differences. The difference being that you think readers should provide/search for the information themselves. Whereas I believe Atlas F1 should provide the service. Your approach stems from the "good old days" where one did not have to pay. However, we are now paying for a service and should not be expected to provide it for ourselves!!

The methods (within the current framework) you are putting forward are effective with respect to achieving their goals. No doubt about that.

Perhaps we could reach a compromise? An extension of the current profile (I would put in several hundred options before "birthday"!). This would mean atlas would be providing a better service while the customers would still have to make us of it. The information would then be available much faster than through the methods you are prescribing.

I have the same concerns as yourself and many others as to how this information could be used. However the days of kindergarten are long gone, ie I think we can all deal with it!!!

PS Apologies for the delay in response, I hadn't noticed your post.
I would be grateful (presuming a further correspondence on the issue) if you could abandon any cheap slights for a later date.....

[Pascal]

Captain Cook, may I point out that the BB remains a free service of Atlas F1?;)

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by Pascal
Captain Cook, may I point out that the BB remains a free service of Atlas F1?;)

I was under the impression that was the case as a way of convincing people to give you more money. ie "one can half use Atlas F1, but you really should subscribe".

I made this assumption based on the fact that immediately after the draconian switch to your current financial set-up there were a lot of irritated people out there whose money you needed. The "mistake" as AtlasF1 now describes it.

Are you trying to tell me that subscribers do not in any way fund the BB? That single sponsor pays for everything does it? I'll need to see the balance sheet for confirmation of that!

Due to the level of integration between the BB and the magazine (why am I even bothering to make a distinction?) it is farcical to presume that resources from the magazine are not used for the BB.

Hopefully your response to this will be as speedy as the tech support I received yesterday.......

[The Swerve]

The subscription is for the magazine - the BB remains free. The BB is a community, not a service. None of the members of that community 'owe' you anything.

It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by The Swerve
The subscription is for the magazine - the BB remains free. The BB is a community, not a service. None of the members of that community 'owe' you anything.

It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

So you disagree then as regards the BB being an effective tool for Atlas F1 in gaining more subscriptions? While I am assuming you are perfectly capable of grasping this concept, I am fascinated at your steadfast determination to avoid addressing it!! If you acknowledged/accepted/understood the above you would then have to concede that subscribers are picking up the tab by proxy if not directly!

The Swerve is indeed an apt title.

[The Swerve]

What a strange chap you are. You seem determined to stir up some sort of argument or flaming match about subscription.

For the definative answer, I suggest you read Bira's FAQ on this subject or email the admin direct.

I notice, in your profile, you list your primary interest as 'people who can teach you'. How ironic.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by The Swerve

I notice, in your profile, you list your primary interest as 'people who can teach you'. How ironic.

I was at the point of surrender (to your greater experience) but now this has occured. I have tried to offer a compromise. I have tried to explain my point of view. I tried to step over your slights. For example the initial web page editing nonsense. You haven't addressed my central point but I have addressed yours.

I have already read the material you are recommending. Twice.

What does one have to do to get constructive conversation from you? Seriously.

I have absolutely no interest in an argument, to clear up your confusion.

Just because you don't like what I am saying doesn't mean you have to launch an attack, or ignore it (whilst posting one line slights accompanied by the relevant emoticon).

I am replying to each of your posts, as that is an essential component of discourse. You seem to think your earlier efforts warranted no further effort from either party. If that is true I consider it quite arrogant.

Surely your comment (which sits at the top of this post) highlights the dangers of Profiles and the information they contain, when it falls into the wrong hands. That was below the belt and I am genuinely insulted.

[Khan]

Originally posted by The Swerve
I stand by my previous statement though - if you want to find out about someone then you get into a conversation with them. If you simply dismiss the contribution of some posters because you percieve them to be 'Paddock Club Jesters' (Khan's words not mine) then you are being very narrowminded.

The Swerve, I wrote that line viewing the other half of the glass. I don't mean to disparage anyone from the PC, but the fact is that many of the threads there are of humorous nature. Nothing wrong with that. I participate only in the AF1, RC and PC forums, simply because I don't have enough time and knowledge for the other forums. When I wrote that line I was thinking more of being drawn to the technical forum (for example) by knowing that someone I know from the PC is an active participant in the TF, and that I won't meet complete foreigners.
However, I can see your point. Although I still don't see it reason enough to prevent the implementation of optional extra stats, because discrimination & stigmas can arise from practically any of the profile fields.

(Just for the sake of the example, and only from my own experience: a new member might suspect that some of theMot's language and antics are tolerated only because of his high post count, and that a new user behaving like that would receive a harsher treatment.)

Khan.

[The Swerve]

Oh dear. (oops! another 'one line slight')

My dear Captain, if you are intend on lasting very long around here you are going to have to loosen up somewhat.

[The Swerve]

Khan - you make some good points. You can, of course add as much info to your profile as you wish though.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by The Swerve
Oh dear. (oops! another 'one line slight')

My dear Captain, if you are intend on lasting very long around here you are going to have to loosen up somewhat.

Another dodge of the question, you are quite a character alright!

Do you have information regarding the number of "Atlas F1 virgins" who use the BB and then subscribe. Do you have information regarding the number of people who continued to use the Atlas F1 BB after the draconian switch (the manner of the switch, not the switch itself, for those easily confused by bigotry), who are now members?

This is the pertinent information. Hopefully somebody will arrive and "teach me" as you have failed to do, so empahtically. BTW this information would consist primarily of numbers, not emoticons.

Below are a series of emoticons. Inserted for your benifit, as you seem to be quite spooked by serious posts:

;)

:yawn:

[The Swerve]

I've really tired quite hard to point you in the right direction of where you might possibly get that information from. I suggested the FAQ or emailing directly. I'm not an admin here so how on earth would I have access to that information?

I don't even think you know what point you are trying to make. Originally it was something to do with information contained in profiles and now it has switched to some rant about the BB, the magazine and subscription. Why not go and have a long think about exactly what it is you are upset about, then come back here and we'll all try and help you out? Have a look at what Khan has posted as a good example of a well constructed debate.

Sadly I suspect you are just looking for an argument about subscription and you're obviously frustrated because I won't give you one.

[mel]

Personally, I really like the 'birthday' feature.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by mel
Personally, I really like the 'birthday' feature.

Well I don't so its 1:1 on votes so far.;)

The source of my dislike is not in the option itself but its exclusion of others by proxy, ie it is one of 5* total options. I would like it more if it were one 6. Even more if it was one in 7.

You see what I am getting at...

*I am ruling out the web page as an option for reasons I made obvious quite some time back.

[Khan]

Originally posted by Captain Cook
The source of my dislike is not in the option itself but its exclusion of others by proxy, ie it is one of 5* total options. I would like it more if it were one 6. Even more if it was one in 7.

explain please, I don't follow you.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by Khan

explain please, I don't follow you.

That was said in reference to Mel's post.

What I was saying (or trying to, apparently) was that I felt the "birthday" option was out of place in the profile given the profile's limited scope.

I was implying that this option would belong in a more comprehensive profile.

However given the recent use/abuse of my profile by others, I can clearly see the argument for leaving the profile as is, perhaps even limiting it to; "Favorite driver,Schumi or Hakk"

[The Swerve]

Originally posted by Captain Cook


That was said in reference to Mel's post.

What I was saying (or trying to, apparently) was that I felt the "birthday" option was out of place in the profile given the profile's limited scope.

I was implying that this option would belong in a more comprehensive profile.

However given the recent use/abuse of my profile by others, I can clearly see the argument for leaving the profile as is, perhaps even limiting it to; "Favorite driver,Schumi or Hakk"

All insults aside for the moment - I just have to point out that you are making no sense here.

You say you WANT more information and that you should be able to browse a database or something to locate particular posters that you would want to reply to etc, and you are in favour of extra fields in the profile for extra info - but when someone DOES actually use the information in your profile in a thread then you declare it to be an abuse.

This simply makes no sense. Can you clear up, once and for all, whether you WANT more info to be available to people or you don't, because I've can't work out what you want.

Please simply address this one point rather than launching off other witty rebuttal. I'm going to have one last go at trying to decipher the point you are trying to get across.

[Captain Cook]

I will take this as a well worded peace offer which I would be an ignorant fool to turn down.

Bearing in mind I have just deleted three attempted sentences based on how they might be received, I hope you will try to see the inherent diplomacy. etc etc

Anyway back to the point at hand.

I think there should be an extension of the profile if a poll, which is demonstrative of Atlas F1 BB readers in general, says there should be!! I can see the logic behind an extension. I can also see the logic behind leaving it as is. I'll go a step further and say I can even see the logic for getting rid of it entirely!!

However if such a pole was put forward I would vote "yes" for an extension of the profile having considered the pros and cons.

I have a host of ideas about how an extension might be implemented, each idea having its pros and cons. Khan probably has even more.


PS You have talked in the past about my learning from you. Well I have learned from you. What I have learned is that subscription is a very sensitive issue and should only be touched with a pole of galactic proportions!!

PPS Why don't I just issue the pole myself? Well as we have seen recently in Great Britian. Apathy and voting don't mix. The only poll I see working is one sponsored by AtlasF1 and posted to every forum (as this is an essential component for ALL BB readers.

[The Swerve]

Right - thank you for answering my point.

You could post a poll but I would bet my life that it would be deleted by the admin staff because it would be irrelevant.

Atlas isn't a democracy. Being a subscriber is not the same deal as being a shareholder. You pay for the magazine articles not the right to dictate terms on the way the site is run - especially not the bulletin board which isn't part of the subscription deal anyway.

That's not the definitive answer of course, because I'm not on the admin staff. It is entirely my own considered opinion, as a long time reader and member of the BB community.

[Khan]

My gut feeling is that it is not an issue big enough to make a special vote for it all across the BB. My advice in this is to just let go. From where I stand, Ali_G made a proposition, bira declined it, we argued a bit, but that's it. If you need to start voting all across the board, you better start from bigger issues than member profile.

That is, unless you open a separate voting forum as Captain Cook suggests. But I believe that would be too great and too artificial a change based on the request of one member. If more posters were interested, they would post in this thread, for example.

So, my view, leave it as it is until the time comes when we have a better case for changing it.


Khan.

[Captain Cook]

Originally posted by The Swerve
Right - thank you for answering my point.

Atlas isn't a democracy. Being a subscriber is not the same deal as being a shareholder. You pay for the magazine articles not the right to dictate terms on the way the site is run - especially not the bulletin board which isn't part of the subscription deal anyway.

Excellent stuff!

My take on the set-up of AtlasF1: I am aware that I am not a shareholder, and believe me I am well aware of the distinction between shareholders and customers! It would be a great step forward for us if you could assume such knowledge on my end!

However AtlasF1 would implement changes if 100% of votes from 100% of AtlasF1 BB users voted for them. They would be crazy not to, as would any business/community. I am unsure as to where the cut off point ,in this case, would be if one proposed smaller percentages. ie would 60% be sufficient or 70%. In other words it sure as hell isn't a democracy but customer/member feed back and market/community research are an integral part of any business/community (I have said that before somewhere).

I am aware that the BB contains unsubscribed users, the above argument holds an equal amout of water whether the users are paying or not.

PS I am glad that the gibes are gone, there are far better outlets for testosterone than argument.;)