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1966 Shannon F1 project


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#1 bobbo

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 11:53

Can anyone help me?? I have been looking for information on the 1966 Shannon F1 project. The best I can find is as follows (From FORIX):

1 start: British GP 1966, entered by Aiden Jones and Paul Emery and driven by Trevor Taylor. Start 18th, DNF on first lap, engine problem. THe car is listed as having a Climax 3.0 V8. I didn't know there ever was such a critter!

Anyone have more to add? Also, what is a good web site for Climax engines?? And/or obscure cars & engines?

Thanks much!

Bobbo

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 12:43

From Hodges A-Z of Formula Racing Cars

"This one-off created by Aiden Jones and Paul Emery in 1966 was one of racing's oddities. It appeared once as an F1 car and was still popping up as an F3 car in some races as the decade ended. A monocoque car, it looked inadequate for its first use - and it was not strong - but with the passage of time came to appear rather bulky. In its 1966 form it was powered by one of the Coventry Climax FPE V-8s, which had been originally been intended for the 2.5 litre Formula a dozen years earlier but were never used in racing, and which had been acquired by Emery. He enlarged them and modified them to run on pump fuel, with Tecalemit fuel injection (apparently 312bhp was achieved on test). Trevor Taylor retired the Shannon on the first lap of the 1966 British GP. As an F3 car it became known as the Mk1, latterly powered by an EMC engine and driven by Australian John Wilson through to 1969."

The FPE was also known as the Godiva and at least three British F1 cars were planned to use it: Connaught, Kieft and HWM - after Climax decided not to proceed with it on hearing reports of the output from the Mercedes engine all three projects were abandoned.

#3 Roger Clark

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 19:18

Pictures of the Shannon on test before the Grand Prix

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Posted Image

Posted Image

#4 bobbo

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 19:30

My Gawd!! THe engine looks like a mechanic's nightmare!! I'm not surprised that it DNF's due to engine problems!!

What happened to it (them) after the British GP? THat's the engines.

Bobbo

#5 Roger Clark

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 22:17

THere was another thread some months ago that wandered off into the Climax Godiva engines


http://www.atlasf1.c...ighlight=godiva

#6 bobbo

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Posted 27 June 2001 - 22:56

Roger:

Thanks!

Bobbo

#7 MOTORSPORT RESORT

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Posted 29 June 2001 - 07:46

What do you want to know about the Shannon ? One of our partners owns the car, it´s alive and well, under restoration, after a life as a formula 3. The Coventry Godiva engine(s) are complete, and it will be restored to orginial F1 spec.
Peter.

#8 bobbo

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Posted 01 March 2002 - 14:54

Motorsport Resort:

What is the current status of the Shannon-Godiva??

It is currently the subject of Doug Nye's thread and that's what rekindled my interest here.

Thanks Doug!!

Thanks Motorsports Resort!!

Bobbo

#9 bradbury west

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 19:59

Looking through an old programme here for the Silverstone International meeting, April 27 1968, there is an F3 entry for the Shannon with K (Keith?) Jupp. Interesting entry as it includes 5 Titans, 3 Tecnos and 3 McLarens among the copious Brabhams and Chevrons etc.
Happy to scan and e mail/post the entry if it helps anyone's archives.
Roger Lund

#10 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 20:26

Was that the same Shannon project as 1996 at Forti?

#11 sterling49

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 20:41

I saw this car at the '66 GP, did it become an F3 car then :confused: I also saw Keith Jupp race, usually entered by P&M Preparations (IIRC) was this the same chassis then?

#12 macoran

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 22:07

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Was that the same Shannon project as 1996 at Forti?


I don't think one had anything to do with the other.
SHANNON at Forti were sponsors.

#13 Paul Taylor

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 22:25

No idea of the copyright situation I'm afraid, these were not scanned by myself:

Posted Image

I'm assuming this is the same car with a Formula 3 engine in it. Looks absolutely ridiculously pathetic:

Posted Image

#14 macoran

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 22:56

Originally posted by Paul Taylor


I'm assuming this is the same car with a Formula 3 engine in it. Looks absolutely ridiculously pathetic:

Posted Image


Saw color pics of the car with this nose shape, and at first couldn't believe it to be the Shannon, but the
roll hoop is a dead give-away.

#15 fines

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 22:59

Roll hoop? :D I'd say that's a firewall and a prayer!

#16 lil'chris

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 00:49

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
No idea of the copyright situation I'm afraid, these were not scanned by myself:

I'm assuming this is the same car with a Formula 3 engine in it. Looks absolutely ridiculously pathetic:

Posted Image


I assume it wasn't the power kicking in that led to a wheel being put over the kerb :D

#17 KJJ

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:16

"29 cars had actually practised-or one should perhaps say 29 drivers, for there was so much chopping and changing with different cars appearing with the same number that the confusion for the spectators was complete and for the time-keepers evidently considerable. Finally it was agreed that the fastest 20 would start, which left Hill and Amon out, as well as Taylor's Shannon-Climax which had re-appeared after its showing at Brands Hatch, and Gardner with something called the Willment-Climax V8, and Innes Ireland with a Brabham B.R.M."

This quote concerning the 1966 Italian GP appeared on one of the threads about the film Grand Prix and seemingly comes from a book called "Return to Power, The Grands Prix of 1966 and 1967" by Michael Fostick. I did try to get some clarification on that thread but without any joy, maybe the thread attracts film buffs rather than motor sport buffs I don't know. So any way I thought I would try again here.

Now I know nothing about Mr Fostick or his book but of course the news that the Shannon had practicised at Monza is .. well, news to me ... never mind the appearance of a Willment-Climax or Ireland in a Brabham.

Of course none of this caught DSJ's attention in his Motor Sport reports of the race which suggests to me that this is a load of balderdash or even piffle. At the same time I do wonder how Mr Fostick - if his book has been quoted correctly - could have imagined such a radically different list of non-qualifiers from that usually listed?

#18 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:27

Possibly his view from the Press Box (or bar) was not as clear as for those who were down in the pits and paddock.

Or am I just being an old cynic?

#19 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 11:35

Originally posted by macoran


I don't think one had anything to do with the other.
SHANNON at Forti were sponsors.


Not only a sponsor. Shannon had overtaken the Forti-team... Strange topic...

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#20 conjohn

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 15:27

Originally posted by KJJ
"29 cars had actually practised-or one should perhaps say 29 drivers, for there was so much chopping and changing with different cars appearing with the same number that the confusion for the spectators was complete and for the time-keepers evidently considerable. Finally it was agreed that the fastest 20 would start, which left Hill and Amon out, as well as Taylor's Shannon-Climax which had re-appeared after its showing at Brands Hatch, and Gardner with something called the Willment-Climax V8, and Innes Ireland with a Brabham B.R.M."

This quote concerning the 1966 Italian GP appeared on one of the threads about the film Grand Prix and seemingly comes from a book called "Return to Power, The Grands Prix of 1966 and 1967" by Michael Fostick. I did try to get some clarification on that thread but without any joy, maybe the thread attracts film buffs rather than motor sport buffs I don't know. So any way I thought I would try again here.

Now I know nothing about Mr Fostick or his book but of course the news that the Shannon had practicised at Monza is .. well, news to me ... never mind the appearance of a Willment-Climax or Ireland in a Brabham.

Of course none of this caught DSJ's attention in his Motor Sport reports of the race which suggests to me that this is a load of balderdash or even piffle. At the same time I do wonder how Mr Fostick - if his book has been quoted correctly - could have imagined such a radically different list of non-qualifiers from that usually listed?


The quote is correct - if the same can be said about Mr Frostick's reporting is another matter...

/Conny

#21 Macca

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 20:21

DSJ's entry list in Motor Sport has the Shannon as a DidNotAppear, also the Willment-Climax; Amon drove a Brabham-BRM in practise, one which he was hoping to take Down-Under for the Tasman series, but failed to be one of the top 20 (of 22) qualifiers.

I believe there was a letter in Motor Sport from someone connected with the origins of the Shannon some years ago which suggested Paul Emery, the owner at that time of the FPE Climax engines, had taken his toys away after the British GP. In 'Motor Racing' magazine was a track test of the Willment-owned 1964 BRP into which an FPE was fitted for the Italian GP, but it needed too much doing to it to be race-worthy for that race and only ever appeared in the 1966 Oulton Park Gold Cup.

Anyway, here is a still from 'Grand Prix' which seems to confirm that the Shannon was painted in Eire's bright green and orange:

Posted Image

Paul M

#22 macoran

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 21:50

Originally posted by macoran


Saw color pics of the car with this nose shape, and at first couldn't believe it to be the Shannon, but the
roll hoop is a dead give-away.


Would that be a "long way around" shift linkage ....poking from the "firewall and a prayer" roll hoop into the right rear tyre ?

#23 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 22:55

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
No idea of the copyright situation I'm afraid, these were not scanned by myself:

Posted Image

I'm assuming this is the same car with a Formula 3 engine in it. Looks absolutely ridiculously pathetic:

Posted Image


I originally posted the lower pic on TNF from our GP Library archives as a quiz picture, some years ago. I guess this is where you got it from Paul...

Rest easy. :yawn:

DCN

#24 fines

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 23:26

Originally posted by macoran


Would that be a "long way around" shift linkage ....poking from the "firewall and a prayer" roll hoop into the right rear tyre ?

Looks to me like an anti-roll bar (weight jacker for those over the pond).

#25 macoran

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 23:37

Ah ! you're right, the angle of the right part of it fooled me.

P.S. .....anti-roll bar yes, but I don't think one can jack weight (across the car) using a normal anti-roll bar.

#26 metalshapes

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:07

Thats the first good pic I've seen of the Sand Cast Webers on their original Engine.

Posted Image

I own two of them that I hope to use on my Mallock someday...

#27 Peter Morley

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 12:56

I'm sure we've been here before - I owned the Shannon until very recently and am sure I've posted various pictures in other threads.

I sold the Shannon to the List's in Austria who are better equipped (financially) than me to restore it, it has joined the Emeryson Duesenberg, Emeryson Jaguar F1 cars and an Emeryson 500 amongst many other cars.

The Shannon is rarely talked about with affection but those who were involved with it had faith in it.

Pual Emery bought the Godiva engine project from Climax, bored them to 3 litres, converted them to petrol and testing on Chrysler's dyno at Kew showed 312 Bhp which was competitive at the time.
The car retired on thefirst lap of the British GP when a leak developed form the side tanks that had been added overnight to give it enough capacity.
Then the promised petrol company sponsorship fell through and the F1 programme died - they had a 2nd aluminum (the first was steel) tub was never used, but the original chassis was fitted with a 1 litre F3 engine and the car had some success - it won a race when they had borrowed an engine which turned out to be a lot better (so much so that the engine's owner immediately wanted it back).

Hopefully the new Masters series for non-wing cars will give it an opportunity to show its potential....

#28 macoran

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 13:49

Originally posted by Peter Morley
I'm sure we've been here before - I owned the Shannon until very recently and am sure I've posted various pictures in other threads.


Yes Peter, the pics you posted previously are here:http://forums.autosp...t=Pearce Martin

#29 ghinzani

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 16:22

Originally posted by Peter Morley
I'm sure we've been here before - I owned the Shannon until very recently and am sure I've posted various pictures in other threads.

....


Peter who did you buy it from and how well did you know its history between leaving F1 and coming to you? I only ask as a neighbour of mine told me back in the mid 90s that he had owned the car for a while, I guess in the 70s or early 80s. His wife bemoaned it as it used to take up all his time and money.

The only other F1 car since that I can think of that became an F3 was the Magnum 813 that was based on a stillborn Shadow or Theodore monocoque. Anyone remember any different? The Duqueine became the AGS of course, but that was F3 to F3000 and had no ebaring on their F1 cars (mores the pity given 1987s RE50 based tank).

#30 Peter Morley

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 23:50

Originally posted by ghinzani


Peter who did you buy it from and how well did you know its history between leaving F1 and coming to you? I only ask as a neighbour of mine told me back in the mid 90s that he had owned the car for a while, I guess in the 70s or early 80s. His wife bemoaned it as it used to take up all his time and money.


It had a complete history but I can't remember it off the top of my head.
I bought it from Hall & Fowler who had it for a few years.
The previous owner had obtained an almost complete engine from Gordon Chapman who ended up with them for the Kieft F1 car (apart from the ex-Emery engines he also bought the show engine that had been on display in a Coventry pub).

Incidentally the designer Aiden Jones son is now a top indycar mechanic - he is Eddie Jones and was Dan Wheldon's engineer at Andretti Green. His preperation skills are presumably a lot better than his father's!

Recently I've had some very amusing e-mails from John Wilson who raced it in F3.

His initial e-mail follows:

Anyway, Aiden said "I saw you throw that Jaguar around, after that
you'll find a Formula 3 car is a toy." He operated out of P&M Racing
Preparations which was partly owned by Keith Jupp, who had also driven
the Shannon, along with David Cole. They were both very good drivers.
The problem was that Aiden had no money, or if he had, he wasn't
spending it. We had one set of wheels and tyres, which were definitely
not state of the F3 art. I think the wheels were 6" and 8", where
everyone else had wider wheels and tyres. The engine was an old hack
Holbay. I can't remember the meeting, but we did the Brands GP circuit
practice. Something went wrong and the car was withdrawn, but I'm
absolutely sure from memory it got around faster than when it was in F1
guise. The first meeting that I remember well was a Lombank Trophy race
at Oulton Park. We didn't have the power, but the old Shannon was
really quick through the corners. Firestone were timing cars in
practice through the first third of the circuit and the Shannon was
quickest of all. I got up to 5th in the race driving like a lunatic to
make up for the lack of speed.

Memory fades now for a month or two, but many things had gone wrong
with the car, sometimes at speed and I was not impressed by Aiden's
preparation, in those days, the car was very untidy.
But, Dr Ehrlic of EMC heard that we had been putting in some quick
times and without seeing the car, gave me a works engine because a
couple of big races were coming up and the old professor had a
competitive ego and liked to be seen, we got the engine because he
didn't have a chassis of his own ready.

Next race was an important TV race at Thruxton. Practice was damp and
the Shannon was in its element. I remember simply driving around the
outside of Keith Jupp's Brabham BT28 on the fastest corner of the
course. To the amazement of the top teams, we ended up on the second
row of the grid.

I've just found the Motoring News report, it read: "...the big
surprise came from John Wilson, who put the four-year-old Shannon into
a sensational fifth fastest."
After practice, a few of the works teams' people came and looked at the
old Shannon and walked away shaking their heads. The glory didn't last
long though, In the race Alan Harvey jumped the start from behind, lost
it and took a couple of us off. Emerson won, but I still believe that
we were set for at least a podium finish.

The next race was the International Trophy Meeting at Silverstone where
F3 was on the undercard to F1. Again it was wet in practice, Tony
Trimmer was initially quickest and then I set the fastest
lap as the track was drying. Next lap I had a huge moment on a flat out
corner as the engine locked up. Aiden had left a rag in an oil line.
When I found that out, I told him that was the end of my
risking my life for him. The pain was somewhat neutered by the fact
that after that performance, an American team asked me to go to the US
to drive sports and Indy cars.

It was a great shame. The Shannon was too old and I think, too heavy
for F3, but it was wonderful to drive, especially through the fast
sweeping corners. I drove a Brabham after that which was much quicker
in slow corners, but far twitchier when the corners got up to
warp-speed. The car was very advanced in design for its time and it was
a tragedy that it wasn't properly developed, although it may have been
interesting, as in the Chinese proverb, with a 3 litre V8 in the back -
at the Silverstone meeting, an Autosport journalist who was watching at
the hairpin, swore he could see it bending in the middle!

Thank's for listening to my unreliable memoires - I assume Aiden has,
as the hobos say has "caught the Westbound" and is no longer with us.
He did his best to write me off, but he was charmingly likeable as only
the Irish can be, and I was told, once a hunt jockey, which needs a lot
of courage. Then there were the stories of his time with Prince Bira
and Prince Chula... an unforgettable character.


#31 Peter Morley

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 23:58

Originally posted by ghinzani
The only other F1 car since that I can think of that became an F3 was the Magnum 813 that was based on a stillborn Shadow or Theodore monocoque. Anyone remember any different? The Duqueine became the AGS of course, but that was F3 to F3000 and had no ebaring on their F1 cars (mores the pity given 1987s RE50 based tank).


Yep F1 to F3 is somewhat unusual!
I'm sure the Shannon is the only example where the reduction in engine size is so great - 3 litre to 1 litre is hard to imagine, I can imagine some 3 litre cars becoming 2 litre F2s but can't think of any.

Various F1 became F3000s of course.

IIRC some F2s became F1s - Spirit, Toleman etc, but really only test hacks.

Lotus 18s of course ran with 1 litre as Juniors and 2 or 2.5 litres as F2 or F1, but the F1 & Junior had different chassis. And I doubt anyone converted an F1 18 into a Junior!

#32 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 00:29

Going back to the Godiva engines; from conversations a couple of years back with John Campbell-Jones, the suggestion was that the engines were owned by John Willment, rather than Paul Emery. History seemed to indicate that Emery invariably needed a funder for his projects, more so, I suspect, and especially after he split from his father and brother.
Roger Lund

#33 Ted Walker

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:26

Going back to post 13 the top one is "one of mine" and the bottom one is "one of Dougs" I think.

#34 Peter Morley

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 10:16

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Going back to post 13 the top one is "one of mine" and the bottom one is "one of Dougs" I think.


Ted

Would the top one be the one you never got round to sending me!!!!
The Shannon pic I had from you is going the opposite direction and has trees in the background.

I think Doug posted his pic. himself so no issues there.

Peter
p.s. Any chance of some Elva (MBU 309) pics instead.....

#35 renzobalbo

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 19:31

which is the exact color s scheme of the shannon formula1?

#36 macoran

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 23:57

Originally posted by renzobalbo
which is the exact color s scheme of the shannon formula1?


I think that when it first put wheels to track it was a lightish green.

#37 Peter Morley

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 15:50

Originally posted by macoran
I think that when it first put wheels to track it was a lightish green.


It was light green - the Grand Prix gift book has colour photos, which show a similar shade to the UDT colour.
But, at least, by the time of the British GP it had gained an orange patch on the nose - you can just about make it out on the photos, it seems to be a mix of a cross and a diamond.

#38 renzobalbo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 16:30

thanks for the informations

#39 antony duprat

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 16:38

Posted Image

Posted Image

:wave: :wave: :wave:

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#40 renzobalbo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 17:30

good photos expecially that one to colors
the diamond was orange as it has written Macca on the post n°21 or other shade?

#41 antony duprat

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:06

Originally posted by renzobalbo
good photos expecially that one to colors
the diamond was orange as it has written Macca on the post n°21 or other shade?


A zoom from the start picture can give us an idea of this colour
Posted Image

#42 Giraffe

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:28

The last and only time I saw the Shannon was on display engineless at the 1991 celebration of 3 litre F1 at Donington. The Coventry-Climax Godiva engine I often saw as the pump engine on fire tenders!
What has become of Trevor Taylor? I saw him race in F5000 with the Leda, and I have 8mm film of him climbing from the Team Elite Lola T70 MK111B after winning the accident shortened 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park. The last I heard was that he was suffering from poor health and living somewhere in his native Yorkshire; any news anybody?

#43 antony duprat

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 11:05

Originally posted by Giraffe
The last and only time I saw the Shannon was on display engineless at the 1991 celebration of 3 litre F1 at Donington. The Coventry-Climax Godiva engine I often saw as the pump engine on fire tenders!
What has become of Trevor Taylor? I saw him race in F5000 with the Leda, and I have 8mm film of him climbing from the Team Elite Lola T70 MK111B after winning the accident shortened 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park. The last I heard was that he was suffering from poor health and living somewhere in his native Yorkshire; any news anybody?


http://www.srgtc.org.uk/drivers.htm

He rode actually on classic races :wave:....If it's the same Trevor :

#44 Alan Cox

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 11:43

Haven't heard anything about TT for a few years, but he did turn out in recent years for Coys Festivals, and the like. Don't know if he has ever turned up at the Revival. He always kept his roots in Yorkshire.I think he is a poster on Crash.net.
Hope the rumour of his poor health isn't true.

Coys Festival 1994
Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image

#45 David McKinney

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 12:25

Originally posted by antony duprat
He rode actually on classic races :wave:....If it's the same Trevor :

I always presumed not

#46 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 12:58

Very circular these threads as they split, conjoin, separate and rejoin again, bit like a family tree in Norfolk (Shit! Better put on my flak-jacket)

Isn't this the car that Paddy Allfrey took over the top of the Avus Banking when it was in F3 guise?

#47 ensign14

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 12:59

We could do with a Taylor autobiog, he drove a lot of interesting stuff, and nearly was a WC GP winner...

#48 Giraffe

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 13:52

It's not the same Trevor Taylor.
As he was Jim Clark's no.2, it is an appropriate time to celebrate him, as he was a great and versitile driver in his own right.He started 27 GP's with a best finish of 2nd in the '62 Dutch.
He'll be 71 now; I hope he's doing ok, if anyone knows?

#49 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 15:14

Originally posted by Giraffe
The last I heard was that he was suffering from poor health and living somewhere in his native Yorkshire; any news anybody?


Yep - http://www.oldracing...irstname=Trevor

I am not aware of him being in particularly poor health - Peter Arundell, another of Clark's more talented team-mates certainly is, however. Yet having said that, TT has had some minor health setbacks in the last 5 years or so.

I do know that he suffered financially during the 1987 stock-market crash & recession afterwards, and also suffered when the recent floods affected his home in Ulley, near Sheffield, but I believe, like most things in his life, he has got over it & onwards.

#50 fines

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 15:43

Posted Image

May I ask what car this is, and the connection to TT? Looks very much like an Indy Car to me... :confused: