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F1 entries that never made it


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#101 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 May 2002 - 19:10

I seem to recall that this D.B. was highly placed in our list of staggeringly ugly racing cars some time ago.

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#102 Brun

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Posted 17 May 2002 - 22:10

Earlier in this thread, an Audi Formula 1 car is mentioned, using a 5-cyl turbo. Apparently it was featured in Motoring News around 1985? I would LOVE to see a picture of it, or read more about it... or was it just a scam?

#103 Takahashi

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Posted 18 May 2002 - 15:51

Originally posted by rod

3: Nothing known:

Dhainault



This has probably already been mentioned elsewhere so apologies if I'm merely recycling information.

Small news item in Autosport 9 July 1992 reported that Frederic Dhainaut had left Andrea Moda after the Canadian GP to supposedly start a team for 1993. It quoted him as saying that he had the money, he had an engine deal and he had a chassis deal. He promised that it would be "not a big team but good."

Apparently Dhainaut had attempted to buy the equipments of the defunct AGS, and had also been linked to a buy-out of Brabham, which he denied.

Rumours were that the Dhainaut cars would have Hart V10s and Rhone-Poulenc sponsorship, and that the team would be based in England.

#104 fines

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Posted 19 May 2002 - 12:19

Do we have the Atmo(s) mentioned here? Jean-Pierre Mosnier in late 1988, never did get off the ground.

#105 hil?-nice

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Posted 21 May 2002 - 07:18

I also remember seeing a picture showing a mock-up of a projected TOM'S F1, around 1993.

#106 hil?-nice

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Posted 21 May 2002 - 07:24

Do somone remember a 1974 South-African F1 project by Andre Verwey called the Veridge ?

#107 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 21 May 2002 - 19:45

Sorry I hadn't seen this thread before (I'm too busy defending Pedro from being called an idiot :lol: )

Back to the GLAS story whci stood for Gonzalez Luna Auto Scuderia according to some sources but I have seen zillions of combinations for the name. The car was designed by Forghieri and the engine was Lamborghini a V12 and yes the sponsors were mexican so it was going to be a national mexican car with the González Luna family in command, with Fernando as the director. They are from Guadalajara, old money and one of them was a presidential candidate and PAN founder some time ago. They supposedly bilked many people but nobody's talking so I am not sure where the 20 million dollars figure comes, I have found estimates for less than 5 million, and much of the original money was spent in the design of the car, engine and giving first payments to a bunch of things like land where the shops would be located, equipment, etc.
It seems that the previous week before the due date, Fernando disappeared -although he was supposedly in Europe like half a month before so nobody was sure exactly when he disappeared- and some of the money with him but nobody wanted to initiate the legal proceedings aganst him so that they would not look stupid (it seems there were several major companies involved so...) and bilked. Fernando was in the US for some time but friends have told me that he was seen in Mexico since the late 90s, free as a bird. Come to think of it, I saw a picture of him at some social event in the newspaper so he must be all clear.

The interesting thing, as we say in Mexico "A thief who steals from another thief has 100 years of forgiveness", is that Fernando had a man who was his right hand guy, even served as a chauffeur if needed, an engineer, and this man had signature in all the checking accounts and knew all the transactions, and when Fernando left, this guy bilked him of some of the money, or maybe they just split it, and he went on to form a very good racing team, several times champion in Mexico, producing a few international drivers, and even invaded a supporting series of CART with a mexican team and got good results. I can not name the guy since I can't prove it, and I don't want to die yet either, but I have talked with him many times, funny guy but never explained to me how did he become a potentate when he was mostly an aide. And his explanations were full of holes.

And about the driver. González Luna was from Guadalajara so he wanted a driver from there and he originally chose/talked to Fernando Plata (Briitsh F3 class B champ sometime in the 80s) but Giovanni Aloi (who is really a horse-riding bullfighter nowadays -guess racing wasn't dangerous enough) had been in Italy in F3 or so and was one of our best prospects and his dad had some money, probably got bilked too, and he was mentioned. Of course, these two guys were never going to get a superlicense, so they were going to run the second car when one was ready, and Forghieri, we were told, was the one who suggested Mauro Baldi, a nice italian guy who had recently been WSC champ or so for Sauber-Mercedes (or maybe Schlesser beat him and the cars were already called Mercedes only). Mauro was the test driver and was going to drive until a mexican got the superlicense (we're still waiting).

The V12 got used in F1 with the Lambo but the money for the project was originally from Chrysler who owned Lamborghini then and it was also used in some WSC car but after the fiasco it seems nobody knew anything there. Forghieri didn't say much if anything, and it was all a big scam which nobody wants to talk about because they were either bilked or fooled. But in the end I think also Lamborghini went ahead and had the team for about one season and then folded it as to save face I suppose, so it wasn't only mexicans being fooled. If I find out more sometime, I will write a story about it, it is half written but never finished, too many strings untied.

#108 pedro

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 12:38

And of course, one can not forget the Jicey F2 car (REALLY ugly) There are photos in Rene Bellu's book, Les Voitures Francais de annes 50s.



As a lover of both the obscure and the ugly, i'd love to see a photo of the Jicey. Any chance of posting one?

#109 ensign14

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 13:24

Originally posted by pedro


As a lover of both the obscure and the ugly, i'd love to see a photo of the Jicey. Any chance of posting one?


There is a pic in Biaumet's book 'Les Grands Prix des Frontieres a Chimay' (volume 1), which is a must have for lovers of the obscure. Even non-francophones.

#110 AlesiUK

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 15:46

The V12 got used in F1 with the Lambo but the money for the project was originally from Chrysler who owned Lamborghini then and it was also used in some WSC car but after the fiasco it seems nobody knew anything there. Forghieri didn't say much if anything, and it was all a big scam which nobody wants to talk about because they were either bilked or fooled. But in the end I think also Lamborghini went ahead and had the team for about one season and then folded it as to save face I suppose, so it wasn't only mexicans being fooled



i think the car that the V12 Lambo eventually ended up in was a Modena-Lamborghini,in 1991 i think the team even used the cars built for the GLAS project(they certainly did at the start of the season).Modena had planned to build there own chassis for 1992 but it never happened.Lambo supplied the team known as "Central Park Venturi Larrousse"(now there is a story :lol: ) in 1992,the team ran a chassis which was called "Fomet f1" and was built by robin herd's march cars organisation. To confuse things further there was also a team on the grid in 1993 called "March Formula one" which had no connection to robin herds march cars!.something to do with the fact that herd had sold the rights to the name of march to the boss of the leyton house team in 91,the leyton house boss(some jap bloke,akagi?) was arrested on fraud charges in mid 91.

to further complicte things,i can find no record of the Modena team ever racing,the cars may have been entered as "Lambo"?van de poele drove one of them and posibly larini or morbidelli the other?

did you follow that? :lol:

and then there was the cosmopolatin fondmetal effort of that year.......

#111 dretceterini

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 16:42

I don't think anyone has mentioned that Martini from the late 70s.

#112 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 16:50

Martini actually DID make it, didn't they?

#113 dretceterini

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 17:11

As far as I am aware, Martini did well in a number of series, but only ran 1 year in F1; 1978 They DNQed at South Africa and Monaco, and Arnoux finished 9th at Belgium. Not exactly a sucess; but not a bad looking car.

As to posting photos, I am not very computer literate, so I do not know how to put an "address" on a photo after I scan it..

Stu

#114 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2002 - 23:18

After you scan it... FILE> SAVE AS> click on jpg, then name the photo... but I'm sure you know how to do this.

Then you need to upload it to some web space, do you have any with your ISP?

If so, use FTP Explorer or a similar program and simply drag and drop the file to the 'public html' folder in your web space.

For further details, if you have space with your ISP account, e.mail your ISP and ask...

Look forward to seeing some pics from you...

Now, when it comes to posting the pics from your webspace, you need to follow some instructions, and while some of this post...

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&postid=786324

will be relevant, and the rest will be as you get up to the thousand contributions to the forums, your ISP will tell you how to identify the actual 'address' of your pictures.

On the topic at hand, however, I wonder if the Clisby V6 belongs in this thread?

This was built in South Australia in the early sixties, following closely on the lines of the Ferrari V6 of the day, and was intended somewhat optimistically to be available for F1.

#115 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 03 June 2002 - 10:45

There was a thread on the Clisby V6 sometime ago :

http://www.atlasf1.c...ighlight=clisby

dretceterini, I agree that Martini was not a success, but this thread deals with more obscure entries, those that actually NEVER ran, aborted projects, rumours and so on.

#116 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 June 2002 - 12:44

A - or perhaps 'the' - Clisby V6 engine is preserved on display in the lovely old clubhouse of the South Australian Sporting Car Club in Adelaide. And very Carlo Chiti/Ferrari it looks too. A highly commendable project.

DCN

#117 Catalina Park

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Posted 03 June 2002 - 12:52

Here is a pic of the Clisby.

Posted Image

#118 pedro

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Posted 03 June 2002 - 17:04

One of the only things I don't like about TNF is that posting pictures is so absurdly difficult. Bearing in mind than many of us are approaching senility (or have achieved it long ago), you'd think the Atlas folks would take pity on us and make it a bit easier. Doug seems to have found an excellent solution, by using a sort of 'buddy' system - he e-mails the pictures to Allen who uses his computer skills to upload them, and then presumably tells Doug what tag to use in his posts to call up the pictures. At least, I think that's how they do it, and it seems to work most of the time.

Maybe we should extend this buddy scheme, and those who can upload should make themselves available (on a one-to-one basis) to someone who can't?

So, dretceterini, assuming that you don't intend to post quite as many pictures as Doug, and in view of the fact that I asked for the Jicey pic in the first place, I'd be happy to help out with with this and any others if you'd care to e-mail them to me. My address is
pedrodupont@voila.fr

And, just to make myself seem incredibly generous, without any risk of actually giving myself very much work to do, I'll extend this offer to anyone else with any pics of the really obscure projects mentioned in this thread. So, any pics of the Toutou, Dhainaut, Veridge (what??), etc. - feel free to send them to me!

#119 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 June 2002 - 17:22

I also once found it was difficult to understand, pedro.

But I persevered and now know exactly how easy it is to accomplish. Initially I had a Geocities site wto which I uploaded the pics, but Geocities didn't want the pics linked to fora like this, so I sought help to enable me to use the Atlas webspace I had available. Reading a stack of instructions that I didn't understand very well at all (typical computer stuff...) I then enlisted the help of someone to decypher it and learned it was so easy as to be ridiculous.

So I was able to readily put together the simple instructions that are pointed to in the post above. But that doesn't help those without Atlas webspace.

For them the best answer is the web space that is usually provided by their ISP. As I have said above, these people will be able to help anyone get the pics onto their allocated space and explain to them the coding to enable them to link to them from the forum.

Another way of obtaining space is by using that available free from www.homestead.com or www.angelfire.com, both of whom, unlike Atlas or ISP-based sites, provide different means of uploading pictures. They can be a little slow getting the job done and it's by no means as simple as the others, but for anyone without any space - or with too much for their available space - they are an answer worth considering.

If you even want to know what the actual post looks like beneath the photo, just click on 'quote' and see how it's done.

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#120 Frank de Jong

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Posted 28 July 2002 - 19:52

Originally posted by rod

3: Nothing known:

Trebron Judd (pic in Autosport, according to TNF)


On behalf of the 'The Trebron Supporters Club' this is the Autosport picture (May 21 1992) :
Posted Image

#121 ensign14

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Posted 28 July 2002 - 20:17

Wow, that inspired me to look out the issue. Norbert Hamy, a German, designed it. The wind tunnel model was disguised to avoid revealing the innovative features. Herr Hamy had designed a 6 wheel F1 car in the mid 70s, with the centre wheels in the middle of the car...Dome were to build it...

#122 pedro

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Posted 03 August 2002 - 11:04

Herr Hamy had designed a 6 wheel F1 car in the mid 70s, with the centre wheels in the middle of the car...Dome were to build it...



I thought this sounded to wierd to take seriously - until I found a picture of Don Vasco's "Sky Tracker 1", which had the same 6 wheel arrangement in 1985.

But Vasco's machine was not intended to go round corners, and the mid-wheels were for stability. Any ideas as to what purpose they would serve on a F1 car? Does anyone have any diagrams or plans of the Hamy/Dome proposal?

#123 dolomite

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Posted 03 August 2002 - 13:51

Originally posted by pedro


I thought this sounded to wierd to take seriously - until I found a picture of Don Vasco's "Sky Tracker 1", which had the same 6 wheel arrangement in 1985.

But Vasco's machine was not intended to go round corners, and the mid-wheels were for stability. Any ideas as to what purpose they would serve on a F1 car? Does anyone have any diagrams or plans of the Hamy/Dome proposal?


Perhaps it means in the middle of the car laterally, ie 3 wheels on the same axis at the back and 3 at the front? Just a thought....

#124 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:12

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Dome even had it´s own website.


There used to be a webcam on the Dome site - you could watch... well, actually, you could watch a deserted corner of the race shop most of the time!

I chatted briefly to some Dome engineers at Autosport 2000, very polite chaps and the F1 car still figures in their rather handsome corporate brochure!

#125 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:15

Originally posted by bobbo
Uh, does any one have any photos of the above mentioned cars (assuming there were photos of them taken)?? Should be interesting!!

Bobbo



try http://www.fenelon.c...lker climax.jpg - taken at Coy's 1999 or 2000...

pete

#126 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:21

Originally posted by vroom-vroom
Yup, the most bizarre-looking F1 project of the 70's. Anyone have a pic? I believe Safir (a F3 manufacturer) also made a F1 chassis in the late 70's.


The Safir was the Token, which was originally going to be the Motul, which (are you still with this?) was originally started by Ray Jessop for Rondel Racing. The "Ron" of Rondel is now rather more famous as the principal of a certain German-powered West-sponsored F1 team...

pete

#127 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:23

Originally posted by RDV
Following back on this posting saw several cars that I know, the Dams f1 was actually another of the offsprings of the reynard f1 , as was the pacific, the plans also were at ligier ( along with the wind tunnel model of the reynard..) gearbox on the Dams car was actually a minardi box , with shift software developed by Dams . Big heavy and more than a bit out -of-date.Had many problems shifting gears.... Must have been one of the very last cosworth dfv/x/c/whatever cars...


Interesting - the DAMS was designed by Barry Ward, formerly Reynard's gearbox man - must've been odd designing a car with someone else's transmission in it :)

pete

#128 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:27

Originally posted by Vicuna


The Trebron venture always intrigued me because Norbert was so modest. Not.

He claimed to have designed the first monocoque, the first side radiatored car, the first 'wing car' etc etc
[/B]


All I recall of the Trebron was thinking that whole thing looked rather like an old Chevron FAtlantic -- hardly cutting edge back in the early nineties. Norbert whatsisface claimed that it would have some radical innovations in the cooling system and transmission, if I remember rightly....

pete

#129 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 15:30

Originally posted by rod
Alpine

Posted Image

Of course I meant Toute L'Histoire - a silly mistake compounded by copy & paste.


Call me innocent and young if you must but... doesn't the bodywork on that thing look a lot like a Pygmee F2? Wonder if there was any influence, and which way it flowed? :)

pete

#130 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 17:05

Hmm yes, it does! Especially the cockpit area. Here's the Alpine:

Posted Image

And this is the picture of the Pygmée MDB12 prototype from Hodges (reversed for easier comparison)
Posted Image

Remarkably similar!

#131 David Beard

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 17:34

Trebron again...memory might be playing tricks, but wasn't there a strange patented (?) Trebron suspension system with vast amounts of cross linkage?

#132 petefenelon

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 21:20

Originally posted by David Beard
Trebron again...memory might be playing tricks, but wasn't there a strange patented (?) Trebron suspension system with vast amounts of cross linkage?


Sounds more like Torix Bennett (son of Air Marshal Don "Pathfinder" Bennett)'s weird suspension that got onto the Fairthorpe TX.

There was a road test of a TX in a recent Classic & Sportscar.


pete

#133 dmj

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Posted 23 August 2002 - 12:55

Originally posted by petefenelon


Sounds more like Torix Bennett (son of Air Marshal Don "Pathfinder" Bennett)'s weird suspension that got onto the Fairthorpe TX.

There was a road test of a TX in a recent Classic & Sportscar.


pete

Not so recent, I remember it was at least two years ago...

#134 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 August 2002 - 21:05

The Walker Climax has been mentioned on this thread.

Here is what it looks like at the moment - photographed at Oulton Park on Sunday 25th August 2002.

Posted Image

#135 Mark Beckman

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Posted 30 August 2002 - 03:34

Originally posted by FEV

One we can had to the list is Guy Nègre W12 engine.


Yes I saw this car on TV some years ago reporting in detail on its W12 motor with longitudle rotary valves.

It ran and was driven for the film crew too.

#136 Mark Beckman

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Posted 30 August 2002 - 04:05

.
Williams had their 6 wheeler under serious development before FIA pulled the pin on 6 wheelers in 1982.

Posted Image

#137 petefenelon

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 15:03

Originally posted by AlesiUK


To confuse
things further there was also a team on the grid in 1993 called "March
Formula one" which had no connection to robin herds march cars!.something
to do with the fact that herd had sold the rights to the name of march
to the boss of the leyton house team in 91,the leyton house boss(some
jap bloke,akagi?) was arrested on fraud charges in mid 91.

to further complicte things,i can find no record of the Modena team ever racing,the cars may have been entered as "Lambo"?van de poele drove one of them and posibly larini or morbidelli the other?

did you follow that? :lol:

and then there was the cosmopolatin fondmetal effort of that year.......


The first "real" Fondmetal car was also from Herd's Fomet studio (the
name's the clue!) -- so in fact there were two teams (CPVL and
Fondmetal) both running different Fomet cars in the early nineties,
I think simultaneously at one point which probably means one of them
was breaking the rules!

(Herd had no connection with March by that point though - it was going
trough a musical-chairs game of post-Akagi owners and by that point in
time I think it was the Matt Aitken/Henny Vollenberg/Ken Marrable bunch
that owned it and were running it on a shoestring).

Now just when you think this gets clearer, it doesn't :eek: -- the
Fomet-designed Fondmetal was replaced by a TWR-designed car.

However, at the time, Tom Walkinshaw was deeply involved in Arrows....

My brain now actually hurts. One thing about an oversubscribed F1 when
there's too much cash around is that there's fun at the back of
the grid!

pete

#138 ghinzani

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 11:44

Originally posted by petefenelon



Now just when you think this gets clearer, it doesn't :eek: -- the
Fomet-designed Fondmetal was replaced by a TWR-designed car.

However, at the time, Tom Walkinshaw was deeply involved in Arrows....


pete


are you sure it was Arrows? was it not Benetton or Ligier? Arrows came later didnt they? who did the design work on the TWR Fondmetal? was it Sergio Rhinland and his Fondmetal technologies lot? didnt they go on to do some work for Minardi ?

#139 petefenelon

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Posted 11 September 2002 - 11:55

Originally posted by ghinzani


are you sure it was Arrows? was it not Benetton or Ligier? Arrows came later didnt they? who did the design work on the TWR Fondmetal? was it Sergio Rhinland and his Fondmetal technologies lot? didnt they go on to do some work for Minardi ?


Yes, I meant Benetton - apologies! (I was thinking of Tom's current mess when I wrote it!)

pete

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#140 Racer.Demon

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Posted 23 October 2002 - 22:48

Just helping out here by trying to create some order into all the information posted in this thread. Hope it manages to spur on yet more wonderful discussion.

#141 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 05:13

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Just helping out here by trying to create some order into all the information posted in this thread. Hope it manages to spur on yet more wonderful discussion.


Very good summary, Racer Demon, indeed.

May I add some precisions ?

- the Mono-JK was raced & hill-climb in some Czech domestic (formula libre) events in the early '1950s.
- the Sacha-Gordine was once tested at Montlhéry by Jean Behra and perhaps André Simon, late 1952 or early 1953.
- the MSM was raced once in a German domestic F2 race (see the essential Uechtel article on German F2 1946-1954 at 8W site)
- the engine of 1968 Alpine was a V8 Renault-Gordini.
- the Berta was completed & tested late 1974 / early 1975 (& entered in the 1975 Argentine GP), not 1972.
- I think the BS was intended for Zunino 1982 (or 1981 ?)
- the McLaren-Lambo was tested (by Senna & Häkkinen).
- didn't the Ekstroem intended for Baldi ? (an entry was filled for the WC, but rejected because the cheque was empty)

And add some more :
- the Baird-Griffin 1951-1952
- the Berkshire 1955
- the scuderia Milan project 1954-1955
- the blown Giaur 1955 (raced once at Naples)
- the Canadian car (whose name I forget) who was completed in 1959, raced in a USAC formula libre race & also tested by Stirling Moss.
- the 1969 Cooper-Cosworth, never completed
- an Eagle-Cosworth for 1969 or 1970
- the Portuguese project, 1974-1976
- the 1993 or 1994 TOM'S F1 (without Toyota), a mock-up of having been once displayed.

And, obviously, a lot of "etc."

#142 petefenelon

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 09:20

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Just helping out here by trying to create some order into all the information posted in this thread. Hope it manages to spur on yet more wonderful discussion.


Great summary - one minor quibble though:

Reynard 89M: The second of Adrian Reynard's collected of aborted F1 cars. The 1056th Reynard to be produced.


As I recall, calling this an "abortive F1 car" is a bit unfair to Reynard; this wasn't really an F1 car intended to race - it was an F3000 with F1-size wheels and suspension and a 3.5l Mugen V8 engine (now there's a mystery...) designed as a tyre test car for Bridgestone.

#143 Roger Clark

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:05

The Lotus 58 and 88 are missing from racer.demon's list.

Also, regarding the Cisitalia-Porsche 360:

Aborted project mating a Piero Dusio design to a Ferdinand Porsche engine. Raced once in Argentina as the Autoar.



I don't think either Dusio or Ferdinand Porsche had much to do with the design. Dusio was the sponsor and the Professor was in a French prison at the time. The car and engine were both designed by the Porsche design studio.

#144 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:16

Jimmy, Pete,

Thanks for the additional input. A new version is online as of now.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
- the Mono-JK was raced & hill-climb in some Czech domestic (formula libre) events in the early '1950s.
[/quote]

Added. To make things clear: for me these cars are eligible for this list if they didn't race in the events listed here.

[quote]
- the Sacha-Gordine was once tested at Montlhéry by Jean Behra and perhaps André Simon, late 1952 or early 1953.
[/quote]

Added.

[quote]
- the MSM was raced once in a German domestic F2 race (see the essential Uechtel article on German F2 1946-1954 at 8W site)
[/quote]

Well, if it raced once...

[quote]
- the engine of 1968 Alpine was a V8 Renault-Gordini.
[/quote]

[quote]
- the Berta was completed & tested late 1974 / early 1975 (& entered in the 1975 Argentine GP), not 1972.
[/quote]

Silly mistake... (hopefully a typo!). See my own site!

[quote]
- I think the BS was intended for Zunino 1982 (or 1981 ?)
[/quote]

Above people have come up with three different BS dates. Which one applies? Or have their been multiple attempts? I'll stick to my 1978 line until I see a more substantial claim otherwise...

[quote]
- the McLaren-Lambo was tested (by Senna & Häkkinen).
[/quote]

Yes, hence the link to this page.

[quote]
- didn't the Ekstroem intended for Baldi ? (an entry was filled for the WC, but rejected because the cheque was empty)
[/quote]

Can someone confirm this? Rainer? Stefan? Do we know more?

[quote]
- the Baird-Griffin 1951-1952
- the Berkshire 1955
- the scuderia Milan project 1954-1955
[/quote]

All three added.

[quote]
- the blown Giaur 1955 (raced once at Naples)
[/quote]

I thought it was Rome. And again, if it raced once...

[quote]
- the Canadian car (whose name I forget) who was completed in 1959, raced in a USAC formula libre race & also tested by Stirling Moss.
[/quote]

Can anyone put a name to this effort?

[quote]
- the 1969 Cooper-Cosworth, never completed
[/quote]

Added, plus the T86C as well.

[quote]
- an Eagle-Cosworth for 1969 or 1970
[/quote]

Added.

[quote]
- the Portuguese project, 1974-1976
[/quote]

Does it have a name? Should we call it the BIP?

[quote]
- the 1993 or 1994 TOM'S F1 (without Toyota), a mock-up of having been once displayed.
[/quote]

I'd like to know more before I will add this one. Anyone?

#145 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:18

As I was busy typing my reply to Jimmy, Roger's comments came in. Will deal with them immediately. Thanks, Roger.

#146 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:21

Indeed Roger, the Porsche Bureau was being run by Karl Rabe at the time and he seems to have overseen the design, later with help from our friend Eberan von Eberhorst.

Also omitted is the four-wheel drive BRM P67, which never raced, but did see service in hillclimbs.

#147 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:31

Richard: thanks. Keep them coming!

#148 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 12:45

Cooper T91-Alfa? Uncompleted successor to the uncompleted T86C!

Hill GH2 :(

#149 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 13:14

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Hill GH2 :(


:( indeed...

#150 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 October 2002 - 13:15

Surtees TS18.

Maki F-102A.

Lotus 39 - never raced in F1, only as a Tasman car.

Brabham BT39-Weslake.