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F1 entries that never made it


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#401 Racer.Demon

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 09:58

There is lots of interesting information there, and in chronological order. Thanks for posting the link. :)


In fact, that page was inspired by this very thread, and created with the help of many people involved here... :)

Edited by Racer.Demon, 03 May 2009 - 09:59.


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#402 HistoryFan

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 20:07

Do we have the Atmo(s) mentioned here? Jean-Pierre Mosnier in late 1988, never did get off the ground.


Are there any details?
And about Mosnier?

#403 bigears

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 16:03

A slight revival of this thread. I found this interesting article from Motoring News.

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Motoring News 11th June 1986.

#404 ghinzani

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 16:08

Are there any details?
And about Mosnier?


Wasnt he involved in the Bravo thing? And then sadly passed away, I think around the time of that project.


#405 HistoryFan

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 16:14

Yes he was involved in F1 plans by Bravo and 5 years before Bravo, by Atmos. Both teams never drive in F1, Bravo because after his death, but why Atmos was a never ending project, I don't know. It is little known about Atmos - and little known about Mosnier

#406 David Woodhouse

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 22:06

I insist that you put the Toutou on this list!!

Just a few more, of greater or lesser tangibility:

Abarth
AGS - the cars used for the F1 experience at the Circuit du Var. JS27+ ?
Alfa Romeo - 160, 179T (and 512 as F1 car?)
Alta 1954 streamliner (DCN)
Asiatec 2002
Aston Martin 1951, 1956
Ausper Clisby
Bristol
DB 1952
Elfin Clisby
Ginetta BRM
H&L - chassis built (DCN)
The Lion (DCN)
Lotus - Honda (1963ish), 86, 102C Isuzu, 103, 113
Sigma and ZAZ

Might I suggest some sort of classification of these projects:

A) Built but never raced in F1
B) Built but never raced in any category
C) Built but never intended to race (design studies, test cars etc)
D) Partially built, not completed
E) Wind tunnel model or mock-up built
F) Existed only on paper
G) Existed only as a twinkle in the designer's eye
H) Existed only as a twinkle in some journalist's eye
I) The Toutou


I don't know where cars like the Walker and Kieft would fit in. Exist and race now, but then...

DCN=cars which Doug knows about but no-one else does (I suspect this could be quite a large category).


Dear Pedro,
Can you tell me where you got this information regarding Doug knowing of the Alta Streamliner ? I believe I own this very car!
Thanks.
David.

#407 Bryce Armstrong

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 17:32

Has anybody here thet Toyota built a v-12 and but it in one of their GT-Ones when they first entered F-1? Does anybody have any info on this?

#408 scheivlak

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 18:36

I vaguely recall reading or hearing about that some time in the past. Would Hezemans have been one of the drivers?

Quite certainly not, Toine never raced in open wheel cars AFAIK. A decision he made early in his career.

According to http://formule1coure...ayje_biogr.html he was instrumental in getting Boy Hayje in F1.

#409 roger_valentine

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 12:31

Given our rather inept lack of info regarding the 2008 entries, perhaps we should set nostalgia aside for a moment and try to make sense of the 2010 entries.

OK, it is still a little early to say which of these will never make it, but we seem to have:

Entries accepted

Campos Racing (Campos Meta 1 Adrian Campos) Cosworth engine, Dallara design and build
USF1 (Ken Anderson, Peter Windsor) Cosworth engine
Manor F1 Team: car designed by Nick Wirth, Cosworth engines: later renamed Virgin Racing

13th entry, following withdrawal of Sauber

Lotus (Proton?)

14th or reserve entry following wihdrawal of Toyota

Sauber (briefly, Qadbak)

took over Toyota entry

Stefan (Zoran Stefanovic )

Rumoured new owners of Renault

Prodrive or Genii

Also Entered:

Lola (Martin Birrane) Cosworth engine (photos of a wind tunnel model exist)
Litespeed/Lotus (Nino Judge, Mike Gascoyne)
Prodrive/Aston Martin (David Richards) Mercedes engine
Superfund (Alex Wurz) Cosworth engine
Formtech/Brabham (Franz Hilmer, possibly Colin Kolles)
Epsilon Euskadi (Joan Villadelprat and Sergio Rinland)
iSport (Paul Jackson, Gavin Bickerton-Jones, Richard Selwin and Charlie Coole)
N. Technology/MSC (Mauro Sipsz, Angelo Codignoni) Cosworth engine

Entries rejected immediately:

Sky Sports Italia
March (Andrew Fitton)
MyF1Dream.com (fan website)

Rumoured only:


Nick Wirth Racing (see Manor)
SuperNova
Art
Ray Mallock Ltd (RML)
Barwa Addax (probably an error - mistakenly thought to be Campos' team)



I suspect this list may not be complete or 100% accuate.

Edited by roger_valentine, 04 February 2010 - 13:01.


#410 nmansellfan

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 13:02

Has anybody here thet Toyota built a v-12 and but it in one of their GT-Ones when they first entered F-1? Does anybody have any info on this?


I didn't know they had actually built a V12, had they done that before the FIA threw its toys out of the pram and mandated 3.0 V10's the year Toyota entered? If it does exist, i bet it sounds awesome...

Edited by nmansellfan, 04 February 2010 - 13:03.


#411 Simon Arron

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 15:43

I suspect this list may not be complete or 100% accuate.

iSport contemplated an entry, but didn't submit one.


#412 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 20:47

March (Andrew Fitton)


I would like to know more about that? I only heard, that they give an application, but perhaps that wasn't really serious...
Is there anything known about their plans?

The most other teams said something about their project, but March...


#413 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 20:49

In the motorsport aktuell I read that Mercedes wanted to etablish a own team in 1991. But they didn't and join forces with Sauber.
Is there more known about that project?

#414 Mansell4PM

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:37

I didn't know they had actually built a V12, had they done that before the FIA threw its toys out of the pram and mandated 3.0 V10's the year Toyota entered? If it does exist, i bet it sounds awesome...


IIRC the FIA's mandating of V10s was rumoured to have put Toyota's entry into F1 back a season - though this may have been a convenient excuse for not being ready. So the V12 may have been well advanced at the turn of the millennium, around the time that Toyota were carrying out private testing.

Edited by Mansell4PM, 05 February 2010 - 09:39.


#415 JeffrieNL

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 16:43

TWR (Tom Walkinshaw Racing) & Footwork Boss Wataru Ohashi wanted to entry the formula 1 world championship with Mercedes engines and Castrol as main sponsor in 1995.

Source: Olav Mol Dutch commentator in Spa 1994.

Edited by JeffrieNL, 05 February 2010 - 17:21.


#416 Bryce Armstrong

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 18:33

I didn't know they had actually built a V12, had they done that before the FIA threw its toys out of the pram and mandated 3.0 V10's the year Toyota entered? If it does exist, i bet it sounds awesome...


I am not 100% sure that they used a v-12, but I am sure I heard they tested a F-1 engine in the GT-ONE, now if they did or not...

#417 HistoryFan

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 15:20

TWR (Tom Walkinshaw Racing) & Footwork Boss Wataru Ohashi wanted to entry the formula 1 world championship with Mercedes engines and Castrol as main sponsor in 1995.

Source: Olav Mol Dutch commentator in Spa 1994.


It was Arrows...
So, not really a never-made-entry...


#418 JeffrieNL

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 18:47

It was Arrows...
So, not really a never-made-entry...


Ok, thanks for the explanation :up:

#419 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 20:39

Perhaps, this might be the right place for that:

There were longtime rumours that Mansell will buy into a F1 team or found a own team. There were rumours that Mansell will buy the Lotus team in the end of 1994 (I read this from Achim Schlang in the Motorsport aktuell some months ago). Perhaps someone can post an article to that rumours?
And there were rumours that Nigel Mansell will etablish a own F1 team in 1992 with golf profi Greg Norman (who wantéd to buy Brabham in 1989). Can you tell me more about that? Or post articles to that topic?
There were also rumours that Nigel Mansell will buy the Ultimate WSbR team which had F1 ambitions, but stuggled in summer because of the economy crises. Mansell's son Greg Mansell was driver there.
Now Nigel Mansell has a own team in Le-Mans-Series.
And in 1990 he bought a majoring shareholding in the Madgwick F3000 team. Were there never F1 plans?
Were there more planed projects from Nigel Mansell?

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#420 HistoryFan

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 18:49

Motori Moderni also had plans to build an own F1 car...

#421 y44na710

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:48

A Happy new year.

Honda RC1, RC1B, and RC2

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http://imageshack.us...203/002txf.jpg/

#422 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:54

after Alan Jenkins left McLaren for Penske in 1985, there were rumours about a F1 team from Penske with General Motors (Heinz Prüller). More about this?

#423 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 14:07

Dutchman Toine Hezemans planed a F1 team in the 70s. Any details?


it rings a bell!

If I recall, the plan was to buy a Williams FW07 chassis and fit it with a turbocharged Zakspeed 4-in-line derived from the one that was used in the Zakspeed Ford Capri in the DRM Category for cars up to 2 liter. The Zakspeed Capri used a turbocharged 1.42 liter straight 4 .
Don't pin me on it but I remember something about the plan fell through when Hezemans realized how much money would be involved with it.



Henri



#424 DampMongoose

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 15:04

Apologies if they have already been mentioned but I didn't see anything of them from flicking through the posts...

The two that stick out in my head without looking anything up are the Streamline Vanwall VW6 was tested in practice at Reims I think? in '57 but never raced and the Ferrari 312 'Spazzaneve', although that was reworked without the nose to race later on.



#425 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 18:21

it rings a bell!

If I recall, the plan was to buy a Williams FW07 chassis and fit it with a turbocharged Zakspeed 4-in-line derived from the one that was used in the Zakspeed Ford Capri in the DRM Category for cars up to 2 liter. The Zakspeed Capri used a turbocharged 1.42 liter straight 4 .
Don't pin me on it but I remember something about the plan fell through when Hezemans realized how much money would be involved with it.



Henri


Interesting. Thank you :up:


#426 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 18:46

after Alan Jenkins left McLaren for Penske in 1985, there were rumours about a F1 team from Penske with General Motors (Heinz Prüller). More about this?




I have no details on that but given the fact that Penske by theyn had taken up the Ilmor porjecte that was eventually branded Chevrolet (= GM) that might have been possible. I don't know if Chevrolet would have given its name to a F1 engine but since you had the Newman-Haas-Force Beatrice Ford project coming up too, it could have been a temptation for GM to let one of their companies represent them in F1. The more while F1 was also some kind of unfinished business for Penske.

Henri

#427 HistoryFan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 21:19

I hope Penske will return to F1 in future, but unfortunately that will not happen...

#428 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 16:06

A bit of memorabilia re. the 1995 Lola F1 project currently on eBay

Posted Image


#429 layabout

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 00:06

I presume you're referring to the stillborn Tiga F1 car Vicuna?

Ganley was the GA in Tiga, the TI was Tim Schenken. They had bought the MRE business and renamed it and allowed themselves what David Hodges called "the distraction of an F1 project in 1978. This came close to realization - major components such as chassis and suspension were gathered together but never actually assembled".


The Ganley F1 project, which pre-dated Tiga, was done in 1973 & would have been ready for the 1974 season. The car is still owned by Howden Ganley & he is in the midst of restoring it.

Edited by layabout, 05 January 2013 - 16:35.


#430 HistoryFan

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:05

Before Prost bought Ligier his original plan was to setup an own team with Barnard and Hugues de Chaunac (ORECA).

#431 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 18:45

John MacDonald (former RAM) wanted to buy the assets of the 2000 planed Honda team to become 12th team in 2000. As did David Hunt.

#432 rateus

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:05

I've recently been re-reading old Autosports and in the 14 June 1979 issue there is a news story about a 3-litre V12 engine that Honda had apparently already built and were testing.  The speculation was that this would be seen in a Honda chassis run by John Surtees (whose own team had pulled out of F1 the previous winter), although unsurprisingly no-one would talk about it 'on the record'.  Does anyone know any more about this project?



#433 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:04

That sounds very interesting. Never heard of that



#434 Allan Lupton

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:52

Apologies if they have already been mentioned but I didn't see anything of them from flicking through the posts...

The two that stick out in my head without looking anything up are the Streamline Vanwall VW6 was tested in practice at Reims I think? in '57 but never raced and the Ferrari 312 'Spazzaneve', although that was reworked without the nose to race later on.

This revived thread reminds me we haven't seen Mongoose for a while and the dreaded auto-showing of profile if you pass cursor over his name doesn't show anything.

Anyone know what's up?



#435 D-Type

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 15:50

As he no longer appears in the member listing perhaps he has been banned or accidentally deleted by the new software  ;) .



#436 Michael Ferner

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 18:10

I* know the feeling... :(

 

 

 

 

* or, more precisely, a former "incarnation" of myself ;)



#437 funformula

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 18:22

snapback.png

I presume you're referring to the stillborn Tiga F1 car Vicuna?

Ganley was the GA in Tiga, the TI was Tim Schenken. They had bought the MRE business and renamed it and allowed themselves what David Hodges called "the distraction of an F1 project in 1978. This came close to realization - major components such as chassis and suspension were gathered together but never actually assembled".

 

 

The Ganley F1 project, which pre-dated Tiga, was done in 1973 & would have been ready for the 1974 season. The car is still owned by Howden Ganley & he is in the midst of restoring it.

 

The TIGA F1 project for 1979 was indeed built but it never competed in the F1 World Championship.

It was converted into a F2 car instead and was raced by Hans-Georg Bürger in the 1980 F2 European Championship.

Hans-Georg Bürger crashed in practice for the F2 race in Zandvoort and died on his severe injuries shortly after. Another unfulfilled talent who might have gone all the way to F1.

http://cms.autosport...e_zandvoort.jpg


Edited by funformula, 17 February 2014 - 18:22.


#438 GroupC2

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:54

snapback.png

 

 

 

The TIGA F1 project for 1979 was indeed built but it never competed in the F1 World Championship.

It was converted into a F2 car instead and was raced by Hans-Georg Bürger in the 1980 F2 European Championship.

Hans-Georg Bürger crashed in practice for the F2 race in Zandvoort and died on his severe injuries shortly after. Another unfulfilled talent who might have gone all the way to F1.

http://cms.autosport...e_zandvoort.jpg

At best this must have been two projects, I worked at Tiga's in 78 and 79, and the chassis of the original F1 car was stored up above the Grundon garage. Along with a host of things that Howden must have collected. F2 was Tim's main project in 79, running the March 792 for Malboro, so I assume they built an F2 car for 1980 rather than plan an F1 car.


Edited by GroupC2, 18 February 2014 - 08:35.


#439 funformula

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 22:35

At best this must have been two projects, I worked at Tiga's in 78 and 79, and the chassis of the original F1 car was stored up above the Grundon garage. Along with a host of things that Howden must have collected. F2 was Tim's main project in 79, running the March 792 for Malboro, so I assume they built an F2 car for 1980 rather than plan an F1 car.

 

First hand information is still the best source, so thank you for the clarification.

I was sure I read the info about the TIGA F1/F2 thing about 4 years ago in the book "Hallo Fahrerlager 3" written by Rainer Braun. I checked it today but unfortunately it´s not mentioned there.

So I guess I must have read it in a tribute about Hans Georg Bürger written in a motorsport magazine like "Motorsport Aktuell" or "Speedweek".

I remember it because there it was mentioned that the car was originally designed to fit a Cosworth DFV and therefore was a bit too large and not perfectly balanced (a bit like the Indy car based Lola F3000 from 1985). Don´t know who the autor of the article was and where he had the information from.

 

BTW. I guess the Tiga F1 car stored above the garage was the car Howden Ganley built around 1973? Or was it an abandoned project of 1978?


Edited by funformula, 18 February 2014 - 22:37.


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#440 nicanary

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:24

I was recently looking for information on the JBM sports cars built by James Boothby, and found an article in the April 1948 issue of Motor Sport in WB's "Rumblings" column, which appears quite interesting. "The Bod" took the opportunity to test a couple of the road cars which JBM had built, and gave a brief resume of the company's future intentions, which included a single-seater which could be used for F1 racing (!).

 

Apparently the first chassis was under construction when WB visited, and this was intended for Boothby's own use, and a further run of 6 cars was envisaged. The car was to be fitted with an adapted Gray Fireball marine engine, 4-litres unblown, a 6-cylinder sidevalve unit giving 165bhp , and using a Wilson 'box. Proposed selling price was £825 plus purchase tax.

 

All of which is complete news to me. Quite obviously (?) the car was never finished, but what happened? I'm supposing here that Boothby expected most buyers to use the car for sprints/hillclimbs/short circuit racing - I doubt if it would have been competitive at a higher level.

 

I have seen a photo of one of the road cars, this one fitted with a body reminiscent of a Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica, and although the caption states that it is powered by a Ford V8, there are only 6 exhaust pipes, and these are of a very "homemade" nature. Could it be possible that Boothby gave up on his single-seater plans, and instead fitted the Gray engine into one of his sports cars?