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1960s Japanese sportscars


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#1 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 16:44

Any old geezer out there who can recall anything about these cars?

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#2 fines

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 18:38

The Prince R380 won the 1966 Japan GP against a might of Porsche Carrera 6s, in the hands of Sunako. A year later Prince was being absorbed into Nissan, and the Nissan R380 lost out to Tetsu Ikuzawa's Porsche Carrera 10. Nissan fought back with the R381 (5-litre Chevrolet engine) in 1968 (Moto Kitano) and the R382 (6-litre Nissan V12 engine) in 1969 (Motoharu Kurosawa).

The Toyota 7 was driven by Vic Elford in 1969 (even if the caption says 1970), don't know where it finished.

[Ha, not bad for a self-confessed single-seater monomaniac, I hear you say!;)]

#3 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 18:50

No....not bad at all....!

Surprising but nevertheless, thanks a lot....:)

#4 fines

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 19:17

Thanks Glenn, by the way...;)

#5 Frank de Jong

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 21:00

Well, with the addition of the Daihatsu P-5 of 1969 (1300 cc, has anyone a picture of that?), that's a pretty complete picture of Japanese sportscars.
By the way, the Prince 380 Mk1 has a certain resemblance to the Ferrari 250LM, the Mk2 however looked more like a Porsche Carrera 6. They could have chosen worse examples...

#6 bobbo

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 22:25

Lovely little rascals, Rainer, Lovely little rascals . . .

Bobbo

P. S.

Did any one race that nifty little Honda S-800?? I always thought that it was a cutie! :cool:

Any other Japanese racers from the '60's or early '70's??

Bobbo

#7 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 20 July 2001 - 22:46

Bobbo

Denny Hulme drove a Honda S800 to a class win in the 1964 Nurburgring 500km race. I think his co-driver was Jack Brabham.

#8 fines

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Posted 21 July 2001 - 09:49

There were a number of Japanese sports cars based upon the S800, like the Macrantha, the Conglio and the Crow. Also, there was the Isuzu R6 and the Bellco 72, the Sigma MC73 that even raced at LeMans, and the Mana 09... Actually, a few more than just the Nissan, Toyota and Daihatsu! I can post a few pictures later.

#9 Frank de Jong

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Posted 21 July 2001 - 10:01

To be terribly precise, it was a Honda S600, which was a forerunner to the 1966 S800, and looked quite the same.
To my surprise, during research for my website for the ETC, I came across a certain Clay Regazzoni, who supposed to have driven a Honda S600 in the Monza 4 hours 1966 and a few other races.
Strictly, the Honda is no touring car but a GT, on the other hand cars below 700 cc did not have top have more than 4 seats, so it would be quite possible. The information came from http://clayregazzoni...zione/miastoria

#10 Psychoman

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Posted 21 July 2001 - 12:26

I read a Automobile Magazine article about the S600 a couple years back, it mentioned that the car passed 12 cars on the first lap of the Nurburgring 24-hour race and eventually won it's class... or maybe it was that Hulme-Brabham S800 that was mentioned... :confused:

#11 fines

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Posted 21 July 2001 - 16:18

Ok, here we go:

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The "Crow", as driven by Tojiro Ukiya, and obviously built by some friends, based upon either the S600 or S800

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The Macrantha, built by Minoru Hayashi, was based upon the S800

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The Isuzu R6, built by the Suzuki-Bankin Company (Suzuki Body Works), designed by Isuzu

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The Bellco 72, designed and built by Suzuki-Bankin Co.

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The Sigma MC73, built by Sigma Automotive Ltd. of ex-Toyota engineer Shin Kato

Once again, thanks to Glenn Moulds for (inadvertently) providing me with those pics!;)

#12 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 21 July 2001 - 21:32

Frank
My memory said it was a S600 but when I looked up the site of Denny's race results it had S800 so I thought I must have been mistaken. Maybe the old grey cells aren't as far gone as I thought.

#13 Tomoko

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Posted 22 July 2001 - 04:12

Frank,

Here's Daihatsu P-5, 1969.
http://www.ne.jp/asa...ingCarShow.html
(http://www.ne.jp/asa...ls/imageQOD.JPG)

Is that okay for you?

#14 fines

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Posted 22 July 2001 - 07:29

Hello Tomoko! You haven't posted in quite a while, nice to see you back! :)

[we have to cuddle the girls a bit, don't we? Lest we end up an entirely male forum! :eek:]

#15 fines

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Posted 22 July 2001 - 07:37

BTW, can you tell us something about the two single-seaters besides the Daihatsu? I'd be most interested to learn something about them, like name, model, year of build and so on!

#16 Tomoko

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Posted 22 July 2001 - 13:03

Yeah, I'm back!:) Rainer reminds me about this forum. I am sooo surprised to know the members remember me. Well, I guess there are quite a few female...
Since last year I was totally into DTM and Sportscars. (I hope all of you know it from my new URL!)

Well, about the specs of the single seaters -
http://www.ne.jp/asa...ls/imageQN1.JPG
It's Honda RA302 in 1968 F1.

http://www.ne.jp/asa...models/BTF3.jpg
It's Brabham Honda F-3. The engine is V4, DOHC 791cc (adjusted Honda S800 engine).


http://www.ne.jp/asa...s/AroBellet.jpg
It's Isuzu Aro-Bellet F2, used the Bellet engine. And I'm not sure about the spelling, sorry. There might be changed to r to l or vice versa.

It's not 2 single seaters but I wasn't sure what you wanted to know...

#17 MN

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Posted 22 July 2001 - 23:25

1968 Honda S800 RSC Racing
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There are lots of F1/F2 cars from sixties.
http://www.honda.co....h/n_4_race.html

#18 Frank de Jong

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Posted 23 July 2001 - 07:00

Originally posted by Tomoko


Is that okay for you?


Sure Tomoko, thanks. And welcome back.

It´s been a while since we had, in my view, such a great thread. If my memory serves me right, the Honda S600 had chains driving its rear wheels; I think the S800 had a more conventional system.

About the F3 Brabham-Honda, I didn´t know that Japan had different rules than Europe (I knew about F2, though - look at the Mitsubishi site); in Europe, DOHC would be illegal.

#19 MN

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Posted 24 July 2001 - 01:24

Talking about 60's Japanese sports cars, I think I should mention Toyota street sports cars as well.

1965 Toyota Sports 800.
Air-cooled, Horizontal opposed 2, OHV, 790cc, 45ps.
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1968 Toyota 2000GT.
Water-cooled, in-line 6, DOHC, 1988cc, 150ps/6600rpm.
(It was a YAMAHA project, Yamaha took it to NISSAN first but Nissan did not bite. Then Yamaha took it to Toyota.)
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#20 Martin Krejci

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Posted 25 July 2001 - 05:31

Originally posted by fines
The Prince R380 won the 1966 Japan GP against a might of Porsche Carrera 6s, in the hands of Sunako. A year later Prince was being absorbed into Nissan, and the Nissan R380 lost out to Tetsu Ikuzawa's Porsche Carrera 10. Nissan fought back with the R381 (5-litre Chevrolet engine) in 1968 (Moto Kitano) and the R382 (6-litre Nissan V12 engine) in 1969 (Motoharu Kurosawa).

The Toyota 7 was driven by Vic Elford in 1969 (even if the caption says 1970), don't know where it finished.

[Ha, not bad for a self-confessed single-seater monomaniac, I hear you say!;)]


The Toyota with Elford finished fourth. I have some results of these Japanese GP:

GP Japan Date: 1966 (information only from this thread)

1. - Sunako Prince R380
Other starters:
- xxx Porshe Carrera 6
- xxx Porshe Carrera 6
- xxx Porshe Carrera 6

Japanese GP, Fuji Date: 3.5.1967
Started: 9
Classified: 7
Circuit lenght: Race distance: Winner's average speed: Attendance: 85000
1. 8 Tetsu Ikuzawa (J) Porsche 906 60 2:04:39,220 1. 1:59,430
2. - Kunimitsu Takahashi (J) Nissan R380 Mk II 60 2:06:25,230 3. 2:02,660
3. - Giichi Sunako Nissan R380 Mk II 59
4. - Moto Kitano (J) Nissan R380 Mk II 59
5. - Shintaro Taki Porsche 906 58 4. 2:03,130
6. - Hideo Ohishi Nissan R380 Mk II 58
7. - "R. Clark" Lola - Chevrolet 57
Did not finish:
- Tadashi Sakai Porsche 906 45 accident 2. 2:02,300
- Ginji Yasuda Lola - Chevrolet 15 engine
Did not qualify:
- xxx Hino Samurai 1.3
- xxx Datsun SR 311
- xxx Daihatsu P5 1.3
- xxx Daihatsu P5 1.3

GP Japan Date: 1968 (information only from this thread)
1. - Moto Kitano (J) Nissan R381 Chevrolet


Japanese GP, 320 mil Fuji Date: 5.10.1969
Practiced: 40
Started: 31
Classified: 17
Circuit lenght: 6 km Race distance: Winner's average speed: Attendance: 103000
1. - Motoharu Kurosawa (J)/Sunako Nissan R382
2. - Kitano/Yoroyama Nissan R382 1. 9:99,999
3. - Kawai/Fushida
Katayama Toyota 7 Series II
4. - Vic Elford (GB)/Takahashi Toyota 7 Series II works
5. - Kuhitoma/Hasoya Toyota 7 Series II
6. - Jo Siffert (CH)/Piper Porsche 917
7. - Herrmann/Kenjirou Tanaka (J) Porsche 908
Other starters:
- xxx Toyota
- Hailwood McLaren M12 Chevrolet
- xxx Nissan
- xxx Ford GT40
- xxx Toyota
- xxx Isuzu - Chevrolet
- xxx Isuzu - Chevrolet
- xxx Lola
- xxx Lola
- xxx Lola
- xxx Lola
Did not qualify:
- Motschenbacher McLaren M12 Chevrolet

GP du Japon, Mount Fuji Date: 6.9.1970
1. 2 Corrado Manfredini (I)/Gianpiero Moretti (I) Ferrari 512S 1022/1032 Scuderia Picchio Rosso
6. 14 Jo Siffert (CH)/David Piper (GB) Porsche 917 010 David Piper Auto Racing?

GP du Japon, Fuji Date: 31.10.1971
1. - Young Ferrari 512M 1014 accident
2. - Ikuzawa Porsche 917 010 David Piper Autoracing

I don't know if any other Japanese Sportscars Grand Prix were held.

There were also other race in Japan that time. For example Fuji Can-Am held in 1968 and 1969. Since 1971 Grand Champion Series formed the Japanese sportscar scene.

I would be also thankful for adding missing information about Japanese GP.

#21 fines

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Posted 25 July 2001 - 15:07

Originally posted by Martin Krejci
(...)
7. - "R. Clark" Lola - Chevrolet 57

Roger, what were you doing in Japan in 1967?


Originally posted by Martin Krejci
I would be also thankful for adding missing information about Japanese GP.

Well, Martin, if you can read Japanese that's no problem: the JAF has put the results of every race it ever sanctioned onto the web! Take a look at http://www.jaf.or.jp and have fun!;)

#22 Roger Clark

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Posted 25 July 2001 - 17:19

Originally posted by fines

Roger, what were you doing in Japan in 1967?


no it wasn't me, not three laps behind...

#23 Martin Krejci

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Posted 25 July 2001 - 18:02

Originally posted by fines

Well, Martin, if you can read Japanese that's no problem: the JAF has put the results of every race it ever sanctioned onto the web! Take a look at http://www.jaf.or.jp and have fun!;)


Thank you. I will have a look at it what I can do with that.
Martin

#24 MN

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Posted 27 July 2001 - 22:58

Can you name this Japanese mechanic from '60s ? ;)

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#25 leegle

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Posted 27 July 2001 - 23:09

The R380 also won an endurance race at Surfers Paradise in Australia. In November 1969 they won the 6 hour race and came in first and second. The cars were the ones that looked more like Porsches and they beat a Lotus Elan by 21 laps. Another Datsun was fifth driven by Doug Whiteford but it was only a 2000 production car and was five laps behind the Elan.

#26 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 28 July 2001 - 11:35

Ron Dennis?

#27 sat

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Posted 29 July 2001 - 10:39

3.5.?1966 GP Japan
Fuji
1. Giichi Sako - Prince R380
2. Hideo Oishi - Prince
3. Zomohiro Hosoya - Toyota 2000 GT
also raced
Porsche 906 Carrera 6
AC Cobra Daytona Coupé
Abarth 2000
MG B
Jaguar E

1968
2. Tetsu Ikusawa - Porsche
3. X - Nissan R380

#28 MN

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Posted 29 July 2001 - 23:26

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Ron Dennis?

:lol:

Kawamoto.
Ex-Honda R&D president then 4th Honda president.

#29 Martin Krejci

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 06:52

According to site about Tetsu Ikuzawa the first Japan Grand Prix was held in 1963 (from: http://www.mmjp.or.j...suHistory1.html).

His debut race the first Japan Grand Prix in 1963. He drove Prince Skyline Sport GT(Top left side:Porsche 904GTS, right side Skyline 2000 GTB).
For the second Japan Grand Prix he drove Prince Skyline GT 546 and had a legendary battle against Porsche 904 GTS. This race has created the "Skyline Legend" among Japanese race fans.
He had many memorable races.
Among them, the battle against legendary late Toujiro Ukiya in a 1965 race in Funabashi circuit is still much talked about among Japanese race enthusiasts.

After driving "Prince R 380" in the third Japan Grand Prix, he quit Prince Auto Co., and left for Europe by himself.
In 1967, he won the British F-3 series. That was the first such triumph by a Japanese driver in the European racing circuit.
The same year he entered " Nurburgring 500 Kilometer" with "Honda S800 Coupe" and won the
1,000 cc and under class.
His races at the Brands Hatch Circuit in Britain on the RSC-tuned Honda S800 attracted much attention of the press then.

He won the forth Japan Grand Prix with " Porsche Carrera 6" in 1967(Left side). He became a genuine star both in and out of the racing circuit in Japan.
He joined Porsche AG in 1968 and drove Porsche 908 in the Watkins Glen 6 Hour race in the United States.


The 1967 race was the fourth edition. That means that the second Japan GP could be held in 1964 or 1965 and the third in 1966. Any about about the second edition year/date?

#30 fines

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 15:05

Originally posted by Martin Krejci
In 1967, he won the British F-3 series. That was the first such triumph by a Japanese driver in the European racing circuit

He won a race, not the championship. Takuma Sato will accomplish that this year! :)

#31 Toine

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 15:16

Hello

Thx for the 2000 GT picture. I wonder if it's easy to find one, i've never seen one to buy in a magazine. Like the 1971 Nissan Skyline GTR. How rare are those cars?

See u

Toine

#32 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 15:37

Toine,

They are pretty rare cars the total production during 1967-70 reached only 337 car. Of those 54 were sold in USA.

I have a doc file about the car if you want to have it.

#33 Toine

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 15:45

Hi!:)
Yeah i would appreciate it alot if u send it to my email addy.
I've discovered the 2000 GT in a video game (Gran Turismo 2). I like the head lights and the two pipes at the back:) I would be interested to see one in real:) Later, i gonna look online for more infos:)

Thx alot

Toine

#34 MN

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Posted 30 July 2001 - 19:19

More Toyota 2000GT photos at Toyota museum site.
Click on the small photos to enlarge them.
http://www.toyota.co...j/detail-j.html

Have you ever seen Mazda Cosmo sports from late '60s ?
The first rotaly engine two seater.
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More photos at:
http://www.toyota.co...j/detail-j.html

#35 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 07 September 2001 - 20:18

A nice pic of the S600 in hatchback shape.
A couple of long legs is also gracing the pic...!

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#36 911

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Posted 07 September 2001 - 22:00

While we're on the topic, does anyone have a picture of the Toyota 2000 GT? I've heard a lot of great things about this car, but have never seen it. Thanks.

#37 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 07 September 2001 - 22:27

Here is the Toyota 2000 GT

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#38 911

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Posted 08 September 2001 - 04:55

Rainer,

Thanks a lot for sending me that file of this car. The Toyota 2000 GT was quite a contender in the 60s. I recently chatted with a factory driver named Davy Jordan. Very nice person and he said that the cars were pretty remarkable.

911

#39 Toine

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Posted 08 September 2001 - 11:12

Good morning Rainer

I don't know if i have asked you already on ICQ but does it happen to see a 2000 GT in some european meetings?:)

Thanx

Toine

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#40 dmj

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 08:33

You won't find a 2000 GT in Europe easily, but from time to time they appear in ads in UK or Germany. One is on public display, in UK, in Museum of Cars and Stars - a conversion to convertible, white, as driven by Aki in You only live twice... Only two convertibles were originally made for that movie, it wasn't a regular model.

I found interesting story and pictures about Hino racing cars in60's, including famous BRE Samurai (I recently asked about that car in other discussion)...

http://www.datsun.or...ady/BREHino.htm

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