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'Grand Prix' - the out-takes?


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#551 Keir

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 21:33

Blog ??? What blog ???

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#552 Twin Window

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 22:58

Originally posted by Macca

It's noticeable in the shot that was used how Bernard Cahier darts across right between the camera and Fangio; if that was the take they had to use, heaven knows how pushy and obtrusive Cahier was in the out-takes!


Not that he's an egocentric or anything. :rolleyes:

Mind you, why change the habits of a lifetime...

#553 Macca

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 15:41

Originally posted by Keir
Blog ??? What blog ???


Well, actually BIOG............the one I'm researching  ;)

Clues to the mysterious race career of Pete may lie in the cars seen driven by someone in his crash-helmet at Goodwood at various times, and in the dialogue of the movie.......

Manetta: "You're still getting yourself into impossible situations"



Paul M

#554 Keir

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 15:51

Paul,

I waited with breath baited !!

#555 Macca

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:39

Posted Image

Just found a rare shot of Monaco 1966, with Sarti leading Barlini - probably showing him round in practise, which helped him get a good grid slot on his first visit.

;)


Paul M

#556 Wolf

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 11:20

Originally posted by Gary C
Only Doug!! I've already suggested to him that they should try & get James Garner back into his car at the F.O.S. He'd CERTAINLY be up for it!


I've seen a video of him and Villeneuve the lesser shot couple years back driving 'Grand Prix' cars (I belive the ones they used in film). I don't know where I stashed it, because I can't find it now... :

#557 Keir

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:46

When they finally put "Grand Prix" onto DVD, that bit of vid should be part of the package !!

#558 Macca

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 22:02

Posted Image


This is one of the ex-Jim Russell film cars, a Lotus 20 which is now fitted with a t/c and used for sprints etc. by its owner Peter Whyte. (his picture)

As can be seen, it retains its mock-Lotus 33 nosecone used in the film, complete with NACA ducts in the sides to cool the non-existent inboard dampers.


Paul M

#559 Macca

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 17:32

Pete Aron: the early years

Born in Indianapolis in 1930, Pete started driving midgets as a boy and had progressed to be one of Indiana's top dirt racers until the Korean War interrupted his career; he was wounded in action and won the Purple Heart, and was discharged due to his injury in 1953.

His father had died while Pete was in the Army, so after receiving his discharge in California, Pete settled there and started racing an MG sports car:

Posted Image
(Joel Finn)

He became friends with many of the drivers and characters on the sportscar scene at that time, some of whom he eventually followed into GP racing. In 1954, due to the influence of Tim Randolph who was competing in the Carrera Panamericana, Pete was co-driver to Luigi Chinetti in his last competitive drive, in a Ferrari 375MM:

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Pete's successes got him drives in Jan van Altmann's Porsche:

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(Dick Russell photo: Palm Springs 1957)

and later a Ferrari 250TR in European races, where he showed raw speed which attracted an invitation to drive sports-prototypes for the Ferrari factory:

Posted Image


(next part : Works Driver)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 15:50.


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#560 Keir

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 17:34

Very "Novel" of you, Paul !! :lol:

#561 Macca

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:09

I've seen a video of him and Villeneuve the lesser shot couple years back driving 'Grand Prix' cars (I belive the ones they used in film). I don't know where I stashed it, because I can't find it now...



http://www.celebrity....com/case3.html

Could be available there.............I haven't got broadband (or speakers) at the moment... :(

Paul M

#562 Gary C

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 13:15

wasn't this a shoot for 'Motor Spoort' ? James Garner used his proper lid & Jacques his normal colours, but on an open face helmet.

#563 Macca

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 14:18

It was apparently commisioned by Lucky Strike - articles appeared in both Motor Sport and 'F1 Racing' IIRC, as well as a snippet by Simon Taylor in C&SC - so they must have invited everybody.

meanwhile.....

Works driver
Aron's 'riverboat gambler' charm and easy smile concealed a fierce determination to succeed as a professional driver, and he had decided that Europe was the place to be.

He had driven a Maserati A6GCS berlinetta:
Posted Image
in the 1957 Mille Miglia with a Korean War service buddy, Ed 'Sailor' Rodney, as his co-driver/navigator, but their run had lasted only a few miles when the brake pedal snapped off - one of the unfortunate incidents that contributed to Aron's later and somewhat undeserved nickname of 'Leadfoot Pete'. This was meant to be a reconnaisance for a more serious attempt in 1958, but of course it turned out to be his only attempt at the event.

He had little more luck in his first entry at Le Mans in the same year, the Ferrari 500TRC he shared with Jean-Luc Picard:
Posted Image
dropping out in the night with water-pump failure.

In 1958, however, his drives for van Altmann in 1958 at Sebring (where he harried the works cars) and at Goodwood in the pontoon-fendered 250TR:
Posted Image
and later in the season in an ex-works slipper-bodied car:
Posted Image
got him the coveted works drive for 1959. As well as the V12s, he had several drives in the 196 Dino, including at Goodwood:
Posted Image
but he really wanted to be in F1.

He entered the first US Grand Prix at Sebring with a Cooper T45 and, from his sportscar experience, had worked out a short-cut on the circuit which would give him a good grid position. Unfortunately his engine blew and he DNQd, but he had told his friend Harry Schell about the shortcut...

He drove the Cooper again at Easter 1960 at Goodwood:
Posted Image
and entered for Monaco, his first drive there, but again DNQd, so his first GP was at Spa; his season showed great promise except for the start of the French GP at Reims where he either collected two stalled cars or shunted one into the other, depending on whose story one heard:
Posted Image

next: with Ferrari in F1

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 15:21.


#564 Keir

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 14:47

Paul,

Will be get the entire novel illustrated ??

#565 d j fox

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 17:52

I was a marshal (track worker) at BRSCC events and early in 1966 we were invited to volunteer to “work” at the Monday-Wednesday filming after the British GP at Brands Hatch—we were even offered expenses!

One day it heaved down with rain, but the second unit kept busy. If you look very carefully at the “Spa” sequence there is a head on shot of “Nino Barlini” which was actually filmed on the back straight at Brands.

The rest of the time we stood around whilst they re-filmed the marching Guards band and start procedure “A hell of a way to start an auto race” said director Frankenheimer.
I was on the grid and spent some time with Mike Spence- a really nice guy .We talked about his “Ferrari”- painted Lotus BRM which had let him down in the actual race.(there were no real Ferraris at the GP so Spence and Bonnier, in an ancient Brabham, played the part).

Which brings me to Ken Costello. I seem to remember he had a garage somewhere near Sidcup in Kent—not a million miles from Brands. In the 60’s he raced a white Mini in club saloon races under the banner of Cripspeed and then (as Rob 29 pointed out back in June) he moved up in 1966 to a white F3 Brabham BT16 which he mainly ran in the Les Leston series races at Brands.
One day during filming he arrived with the car resplendent in green and gold, with extra bits glued on. It was a very passable Brabham Repco BT19, which he presented to Frankenheimer, who I remember was very impressed.

The real highlight of the three days was the Yamura fire sequence. I was stood at Paddock Hill (along with hordes of others). I have to say that what you see is what actually happened, real flames and everything —James Garner couldn’t leap/fall out quickly enough , as he was almost engulfed ! Both he and Frankenheimer looked more than a little concerned afterwards.

They didn’t shoot a second “take”!

David Fox

#566 Gary C

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 18:19

welcome, David, and great stories !!

#567 Magee

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 18:40

David,

The inside stories about motor racing and filming are always the best. Thanks for sharing these valuable tidbits.

Mike

#568 Macca

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 19:08

Yes, welcome indeed, David.

Great stuff - I'd love to hear more. Interesting about Costello's Brabham - I know there were a Lotus 20 and another car (which I thought was a BT11) faked up as BT19s, I'll have to look out for a BT18, and the Spa-at-Brands shot.

Were you in any of these pictures (to save you trawling through this whole thread)?

Posted Image
http://img183.images...pp0069pr.th.jpg[/img][/url] Posted Image

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http://img161.images...lming0ls.th.jpg[/img][/url] Posted Image

And do you happen to know at which local pub they filmed the post-race party? :drunk:

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 27 December 2009 - 20:52.


#569 Keir

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 14:39

I always thought the pub was at Brands itself ??

#570 d j fox

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 16:56

Thanks for the photos Paul—I was standing just out of shot ,on the track ,in the final picture.

I don’t know which pub they used— it certainly wasn’t at Brands which in 1966 was pre “Kentagon”. There was this strange large wooden structure at the top end of the paddock which masqueraded as a café!

They also filmed in the late morning before the GP (and just after that fabulous GT race won by a hard charging, and very angry, Jack Sears in the bellowing Willment Cobra.)

The GT40 camera car was leading a pack of pretend GP cars around, basically filming the back drop of race day crowds etc. It all looked rather silly- Jim Russell school cars dressed up etc. Also bear in mind that by now most race-goers were very cynical about the whole thing, fueled by the writings of DSJ and others, on the chaos and distractions caused by the whole MGM circus at GPs.

Going back to my time with Mike Spence—at one stage he said to Frankenheimer “Come on John, I want to be in your movie” , so a camera was set up front of his car- a Lotus (I think a 25) certainly with a Climax V8. Mike sat in the car and then , appearing from nowhere, was a small Italian man who smeared black make-up on my hands as well as the two or three others around the car—so we could pretend to be mechanics! Mike fiddled with his goggles, as we fiddled with bits on the car. After calling “action!” Frankenheimer sat on a chair smoking a pipe, watching intently. We did two or three takes, but I don’t believe the whole sequence ever made the final version.

I also remember that Chris Amon and Jochen Rindt were nearby on the dummy grid area too. Rindt was standing on the rear wheel of his car, looking towards the start line, trying to see what was going on (nothing) , when someone stared to push the car as a joke. He nearly fell off, and then proceeded to use heavily accented- but very Anglo Saxon- swear words!

David

#571 Keir

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 15:02

Now, if only we could get all this on the DVD !!!!

#572 Macca

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 17:46

With Ferrari in F1
Aron's 1960 drives in 250TRs, especially at the Nurburgring which was to become something of a lucky circuit for him:
Posted Image
put him in line for an F1 drive; but Ferrari had more drivers than cars.

As a previous biographer said, he came into the Ferrari F1 team in mid-1961 at Spa:
Posted Image
shown with Sarti (4) and von Gripps (2) about to start practise, and won five GPs with them in two seasons, although only three were rounds of the WDC, at the Nurburgring in 1961 & 1963 and Rouen in 1962.

At Monza the team wouldn't change his engine after practise and it blew early in the race. With von Gripps' fatal crash and Sarti clinching the WDC, Ferrrari gave the USGP a miss, which annoyed Aron.

Here at Rouen in 1962 is the aftermath of the finish-line collision, when Aron's engine blew as he over-revved to clinch victory, Dennis Durland and Nev Naylor (the 'Bradford Bullet') climb from their wrecked Loti to compare notes:
Posted Image

Aron also won the n/c F1 races at Modena and Syracuse in 1962, and was third at Spa where he had to follow team orders and stay behind Sarti.

In sportscars he frequently had to drive the unloved 268SP in 1962:
Posted Image
and had a crash due to the throttle jamming in practise for the Targa Florio, which the team manager blamed on him - this and the crashes at Reims and Rouen were the 'impossible situations', as Agostini Manetta called them. Ferrari also missed the USGP again, denying Aron his home race for the second year.

Aron started 1963 with optimism, here squeezing into the new F1 car:
Posted Image

But his criticisms of Ferrari's F1 cars in 1962 and 1963 did not go unnoticed, and although he won at the 'Ring, it was Sarti who generally got the best equipment and attention.

Here a grim-faced Aron has to warm up his own156/63 at Spa, while all the team's attention is on Sarti's car:
Posted Image

Despite Aron's win at the 'Ring (where Sarti finished upside-down in a ditch), it was Sarti who got the new car for Monza in 1963, and Aron had had enough of being expected to play second fiddle.

(next: Marking Time)

:)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 27 December 2009 - 20:55.


#573 Terry Walker

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 16:14

I must have lost track - what's Pete Aron doing these days?

#574 Gary C

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 17:07

Macca, you have WAY too much spare time on your hands!! LOL

#575 Keir

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 14:23

..... or not nearly enough !! :rotfl:

#576 Macca

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 14:58

Originally posted by Terry Walker
I must have lost track - what's Pete Aron doing these days?


Enjoying his retirement - the bloke is 77 after all! He was reunited with his 1965-66 Jordan-BRM at Monza a few years ago, as mentioned earlier.


Aron pt.4: Marking Time

Aron felt he had to go to a British team for 1964, and was lured when Rex Furnell said "I've got the works Lotus's" ; Aron thought he would be part of the factory team, but they were just secondhand 1963 cars, and when Rex Furnell died suddenly after an operation, his inexperienced son Jim had to run the team. The special deals Rex had done fell through, they ended up with customer BRM engines, and plans to build their own chassis foundered.

Here Aron prepares for his debut at Monaco, with the bulky figure of Jim Furnell to his right, and team-mate Chris O'Man, while Durland and Naylor and their BRPs are also visible:
Posted Image

O'Man later joined Lotus and adopted a dark-grey helmet in place of the red one; hence Aron greeting him as a friend and former team-mate in the pits at Clermont-Ferrand in 1966; and the car O'Man drove in 1966 was seen at the recent Goodwood Revival meeting:
Posted Image

The 1964 season was a total disappointment; here at Rouen where he had won two years earlier, he is lapped at Nouveau Monde by Gurney:
Posted Image

Things were no better at the 'Ring, scene of his last GP win, where he is seen behind Jim Clark in the pits:
Posted Image

Aron had no F1 drive in place at the start of 1965, although he had been driving Cobras and Ford GTs in sportscar racing. After the 1965 South African GP, veteran BRM driver Bob Turner aggravated an old neck injury in a snowball fight at a publicity event at St Moritz, and although he tried to take part in the Easter Goodwood meeting in a neck collar (see 'Motor Sport' for September 2005, p48), he was out for months. Aron's win at Daytona convinced Jeff Jordan to put him in the car for the rest of the season at least, and early results were promising.

At Monza a new engine spec gave the BRMs the advantage, and Aron and Stoddard were slipstreaming and swapping positions in a safe 1-2 formation when Stoddard got too close and edged Aron into the gravel at Parabolica and he hit the bank hard:
Jordan blamed Aron for not getting out of the way; Aron fumed and vowed not to be pushed off again.
Posted Image Posted Image

Then at Watkins Glen, a sudden shower soaked the track. While compatriot Bob Bondurant merely had the elastic on his goggles stretch, Aron was caught out and hit the bank again:
Posted Image

More 'impossible situations'...........

Aron could see that Jordan was placing his hopes on the brilliant young Stoddard, who dominated the 1966 Tasman series, while Jordan sent a couple of up-and-coming young drivers to share the second BRM. Aron hoped to keep his seat until Turner was fully fit into 1966 (Turner drove a third car in his comeback at Monaco but didn't last long), and then perhaps get a drive with Cooper, but that seat was taken by John Hogarth.

(next: champion year & after)

;)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 27 December 2009 - 21:01.


#577 Macca

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 21:03

Champion Year and after

Aron's positive attitude, exemplified by the motto he fixed in his car:

aronsmottosm.jpg

endeared him to Yamura; but the relationship was to sour when Yamura decided he had to concentrate on his roadcar business with the WC won, and he brought in new personnel to his F1 team in 1967 to give more young engineers experience - the new boys went for out-and-out power with a V12 and the car was late being completed, as it should have been ready in 1966.
jap-poster2.jpg


At the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch, in its new colour scheme:[

 

IMG]http://imageshack.us...roc19672up7.jpg[/IMG]


Aron found the new car was horrendously heavy, and uncompetitive with the Eagle and Barlini's new centre-exhaust Ferrari, and the season got worse when the Cosworth DFV arrived.

Aron had contacts in the British motor-racing industry from his Ford GT days, and persuaded Yamura to have them help build a new lightweight car very quickly - it gave him a lucky win, his last, in a slipstreamer at Monza and became known as either the 'Yamola' or the 'Lomura'.

A return to sportscars later that year, with a Can-Am outing in a McLaren M1B, was also unsuccessful, although he was the first to try a full-face helmet:

petemclm1b.jpg

After his retirement, officially announced in early 1968 after he was unable to get a competitive ride for Daytona, Aron was briefly tempted back behind the wheel alongside Mike Delaney in 1969 in a Lola
aron-delaney.jpg

but found the car too small for comfort and never actually raced it.
t70.jpg

:)


Paul M


Edited by Macca, 10 September 2013 - 16:14.


#578 Gary C

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 01:42

that's a great cockpit shot, Macca, I wonder where you got that from ?? LOL

#579 Keir

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:26

It's Michael Delaney and no, we are not related !!

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#580 Macca

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 13:46

I wondered whether that cockpit shot would seem familiar, Gary!

Here we have the proof that the V12 Yamura was intended to be raced by Aron in 1966; Yamura had already prepared promotional posters featuring it:

Posted Image

Paul M

#581 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 14:36

I get completely disoriented from this thread?? What is real and whats not?

But serious. I have two LP. One with the racing sounds and great commentary by Phil Hill on gear selections etcetera, as well as the music LP by Jarre. This LP had different cover designs. Some resembling the poster above.

I also got this booklet once that was to promote the film I believe. Did anyone scan it, or should I ....?

#582 ianselva

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:10

Originally posted by Rob29
Ken Costello raced a Brabham BT16 in British F3 8 times in 1966

He is also known for building the first MGBV8 and raced Mini Coopers quite succesfuly at Brands Hatch

#583 Macca

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 17:21

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
I get completely disoriented from this thread?? What is real and whats not?

But serious. I have two LP. One with the racing sounds and great commentary by Phil Hill on gear selections etcetera, as well as the music LP by Jarre. This LP had different cover designs. Some resembling the poster above.

I also got this booklet once that was to promote the film I believe. Did anyone scan it, or should I ....?


Sorry Arjan,
Pete Aron seems to have taken the place of a few real people in some period photos, such as Ken Miles, Mike Hailwood and Graham Hill in pictures from the 'net, and John Surtees in one of mine from the 1967 RoC; then there's his resemblance to Baghetti and Borsari in a couple of 1963 pictures I scanned.............the rest are from various historic events, some featuring Ferrari restorer/racer Neil Twyman who wears an Aron helmet, and the rest 'enhanced' :

The poster is genuine, it's a 1967 Japanese cinema poster which presumably was meant to cash in on Honda being in F1.

Many of the pictures earlier in this thread and on the 'Let Scott pass' thread were scanned from my original British cinema programme, such as this one:

Posted Image

I don't know whether the same programme/publicity material was used in other countries.

Paul M

#584 Magee

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 19:52

Quoting Arjan,
I get completely disoriented from this thread?? What is real and whats not?


It follows the nature of the film.  ;)

#585 Keir

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 14:41

Stuff in "Grand Prix" not real !!! Surely you jest ?? :rolleyes:

#586 Macca

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 16:00

If it were not real, surely Nicholas Watts wouldn't have bothered to paint this:

http://www.cstudio.net/jamesgarner.jpg

:cool:

Paul M

#587 Keir

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 16:07

GRAND PRIX LIVES

So does Frodo !!

#588 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 19:09

So does Frodo !!



Are you sure, Keir? They recently closed their brake lining factory just outside Caernarfon!  ;)

#589 Macca

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 21:51

Who does he drive for?

I bet he's good round the 'Ring................

:p



Paul M

#590 Keir

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 14:39

Frodo is a master around the "Ring, but he will not use ferodo brakes. He says they confuse him !!

#591 Macca

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 22:26

When he gets to the Foxhole, does he want to drive it or live in it? :D

Rummaging the other day, I found an old Daily Telegraph magazine from 1966 with an article previewing the British GP, with photos of the teams and personnel (apparently taken at about the time of the Belgian GP); but the header photo, from Monaco, features the Barlini fake from the movie:

Posted Image

If anyone is interested I could scan the other photos.


Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 15:31.


#592 bigears

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 22:52

Originally posted by Macca
When he gets to the Foxhole, does he want to drive it or live in it? :D


:rotfl:

#593 AyePirate

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 03:25

Originally posted by D-Type

But old enough to be your mother



Francois Hardy still has "it"

http://www.francoise-hardy.com/

http://www.francoise...hotos/index.htm

#594 Macca

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 13:10

Posted Image

Another out-take, of Mifune and Garner letting their tea get cold.


Paul M

#595 Keir

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 14:49

KEEP 'EM COMING !!!

#596 jonpollak

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 16:04

Hey Gang....
I was just told about a petition to have Vorner Home Wideo finally issue Grand Prix on DVD.

Go and sign up ASAP.

www.grandprixondvd.com

carry on....
Jp

#597 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 16:49

If they do produce it on DVD, I wonder if they will include the sexy bits that a lot of people have never seen, due to only having seen it on the box with those bits cut.

#598 Macca

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 22:12

Posted Image

(copyright W.F.Gleave)

Stoddard's practise session at Monaco was somewhat hampered by TV entrepreneur Ernie Beckenham's early attempts at a helmetcam.




Paul M

#599 indy500autographs

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 22:40

How come Pete Aron never tried the Indianapolis 500?

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#600 Keir

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 14:53

I believe that he did ??