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'Grand Prix' - the out-takes?


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#1101 lotuspoweredbyford

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:50

On TCM right now.

"At this moment I'm inclined to think you're not one of them."

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#1102 Pullman99

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 18:38

........the ristorante where Lisa sits at night in Monza and is picked up by the American boy is still there, in the Piazza Duomo:
then:
Posted Image
Paul M


These are a couple of pics that I took in the Piazza Duomo in Monza last year showing the location of the ristorante. The premises on the right (the ristorante in the scene) was boarded up and the middle frontage (actually a ristorante) wasn't open. There was some building work being done on the Duomo itself and on Monza's town hall.

I was not aware at the time but the Duomo contains the crown of the iron nail (from the true cross) that Napoleon Bonaparte used to crown himself King of Italy in Milan's Duomo. Worth a second visit, clearly.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Pullman99, 14 May 2010 - 07:40.


#1103 Marmulade

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 21:24

Earlier it was stated that the house/flat near Monza where Sarti takes Louise that is filled with motor-racing memorabilia actually belonged to Mimmo Dei of Scuderia Cento-Sud who greets them when they arrive.

Here are a couple of stills from the house to refresh your memory:

Posted Image

Posted Image

I can't do screen captures, so I'm using these to get the scene in the neighborhood.

On the wall next to the stairs are several racetrack outlines, with their respective names, but they're too small to read. I've identified some of them, and am hoping for help to fill in any gaps and check my work.

Left Side, working downwards:
Sebring (USA)
Le Mans (France)
Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium)
Silverstone (Britain)

Middle, working downwards:
Monza (Italy)
Monte Carlo (Monaco)

Right Side, working downwards
Bremgarten? (Switzerland)
Reims (France)
Nurburgring(Germany)

Bonus points for the top 2 on the left side, visible only when Louise is walking down the stairs right after the first picture.
Pedralbez?
Zandvoort?
Rouen?

Can a picture of this wall in the present day be found? I don't believe Mimmo Dei is alive anymore, but is his clubhouse/bar still standing, where these pictures were taken?

#1104 Macca

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 17:08

'Mimmo' Dei was born in 1909 according to Doug Nye in "BRM, Volume 2", but I don't know when he died. The house was the headquarters of Scuderia Centro-Sud and also of the racing-drivers' school that Dei ran at Monza to help pay for the racing team. He was sponsored by BP and after they ceased sponsorship in 1967, Scuderia Centro-Sud closed in 1968.

I also don't know if he had family (other than his brother who was partner in the team) and whether the house was sold and the memorabilia collection broken-up or not. It was only from finding out that the address was in the Via Giuseppe Rovani near the Villa Reale that I was able to locate it and find that it still exists and looks much the same from the outside.

I will have another look at the DVD and try to identify the race circuits you mention, and grab some pictures if I can.

Returning to the actors driving; all of the actors were towed by the GT40 camera-car when a frontal view was required, as this was the only way to get a close-enough face shot with a wide-angle lens that would allow following cars behind and off to the sides to be visible. The car-mounted camera (always on the right so that the real air-intakes of the Formula Junior engine on the left side weren't seen!) was used with Montand, Garner and Sabato, but I think from memory that Sabato was only seen driving in scenes at Monza and was towed elsewhere. It was never said that he couldn't drive well, only that he got big-headed and was taught a lesson by Chris Amon towing him very fast with the GT40. Montand apparently crashed during filming at Monaco and Jim Russell then fitted restrictors to the cars, to limit their speed and also to prevent blown engines due to over-revving.

Bedford had only just learned to drive when filming started and after trying a Lotus 20 at Brands Hatch didn't do any film driving, always being doubled by one of the pros such as Rindt or Ginther; as his character always wore a fireproof mask like Jackie Stewart, this wasn't a problem.

I believe I have found another location from the film, so I'll post some pictures later.

Paul M





#1105 Macca

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 18:51

At the "French GP" Aron takes Pat to dinner and they walk back to their hotel; here is a still, brightened-up so you can see there is a church behind them, a steep hill, and buildings with arched windows either side, the furthest on the right having the tops of the arches at different heights:

Posted Image

and here is the Rue des Gras in Clermont-Ferrand now, courtesy of Google Streetview:

Posted Image

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 29 February 2012 - 16:23.


#1106 Barry Boor

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 21:59

Macca, I can tell you haven't yet heeded my advice to get out more.

Amazing detective work again.

#1107 Macca

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 15:11

Mrs Macca has been known to say something like that.............

I've had a bit of computer trouble recently, with a Trojan that could only be removed by a geek, which I'm not; so I had to re-format and only recently got round to re-loading WinDVD - so of course for testing I put in the first DVD to hand..........

But having only watched again a few bits from the first three races, I noticed yet more new things - the question of the street in Clermont-Ferrand, but also that in the Monaco GP there is a glimpse of a car spinning in Casino Square during one of the montage shots of the real race:
Posted Image

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and referring to DSJ's report in MS, it seems to have been Ginther in the Cooper.

And then at the drivers' meeting at Spa; in this still we see Rindt, Garner, Ligier, Hill G, Gurney, Frere, McLaren, Bianchi playing patience, Sabato and Siffert; and I've only just noticed Hulme puffing away on a fag on the left:
Posted Image

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(in the other half of the room are Cahier, Montand, Ginther, Spence and Hill P)

Paul M

#1108 Jean L

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 16:10

I think it is Jo Schlesser,not Lucien Bianchi.

#1109 Barry Boor

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 17:24

Definitely Schlesser.

And if I didn't know better, which for once, I do, I would have said that was Gerhard Berger. It don't look much like Hulme to me.

(I know it can't be Berger, due to the fact he was only 7 when Grand Prix was made.)

#1110 Macca

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 20:12

Aargh.........finger trouble! Yes, Schlesser, who appears on the front row of the 'British GP' in a Jordan-BRM - why on earth did I type Bianchi? :blush:

Definitely Hulme on the left - I couldn't work out who it was except by replaying that bit a couple of times.

Posted Image

Paul

#1111 ensign14

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 20:38

Poignant that Schlesser made it into "Grand Prix" before he made it into a Grand Prix...

#1112 LittleChris

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 22:16

Poignant that Schlesser made it into "Grand Prix" before he made it into a Grand Prix...



I find it even more poignant that of the 7 ( Exc Paul Frere ) active drivers pictured, only 1 remains with us, some 45 years later when you'd only expect them to be in their 70's.

#1113 Macca

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 16:06

The Motorgraphs site has a couple of interesting stills:
http://www.motorgrap...fromsearch=true
Garner, Walter, Cahier and possibly JYS on the left?

http://www.motorgrap...fromsearch=true
Walter and Garner behind the pits at Spa, but this shot must have ended up on the cutting-room floor.

Paul M

#1114 Frank S

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 16:46

...

But having only watched again a few bits from the first three races, I noticed yet more new things - the question of the street in Clermont-Ferrand, but also that in the Monaco GP there is a glimpse of a car spinning in Casino Square during one of the montage shots of the real race:
...
Paul M


And there in the square in all its glory is a 1960-62 Plymouth Uggle - I mean Valiant - a little outside its usual habitat.

Posted Image

#1115 Macca

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 13:18

The following photograph adds nothing to the searches for out-takes or filming locations, and I do not know the copyright, only that I found it unattributed on the interweb; but nevertheless I make no apology for posting it...........

Posted Image

:up:

Paul M

#1116 Keir

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 16:17

You can post a picture of the beautiful Miss Hardy anytime.

#1117 Rob29

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 16:36

Not sure why she is wearing Chis Amon's helmet,as she was Barlini's girlfriend in the movie-Bandini's would be more apropriate?

#1118 Macca

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 18:48

I posted another (b/w) photo early in the thread of her wearing Aron's helmet (not Amon - colours reversed) at Clermont-Ferrand, but nobody knows the reason, other than that she seems to have done a lot of publicity shots there, probably due to it being her home country.

Here is another shot from and copyright to the Pilette archives, of Stoddard's 'BRM' at Monza:
Posted Image

Paul M

#1119 AJB

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 18:51

Not sure why she is wearing Chis Amon's helmet,as she was Barlini's girlfriend in the movie-Bandini's would be more apropriate?

Strictly speaking, she's not wearing Chris Amon's helmet; his had the red on (his) left hand side. She's wearing Pete Aron's, which was a mirror image.

Alan

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#1120 COUGAR508

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:47

Aargh.........finger trouble! Yes, Schlesser, who appears on the front row of the 'British GP' in a Jordan-BRM - why on earth did I type Bianchi? :blush:

Definitely Hulme on the left - I couldn't work out who it was except by replaying that bit a couple of times.

Posted Image

Paul


Thanks for posting the pic! :)

Presumably Denny does not appear anywhere else in the movie?

#1121 Giraffe

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:31

Friend to this day of Sid Taylor, James Garner pictured here with Roberto Guerrero & partner.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2010-08-17

Photo courtesy of the Sid Taylor collection.

#1122 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 20:27

Roberto Guerrero & partner.

Super Cathy?

#1123 LittleChris

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:23

Katie wasn't it ? Think Twinny may be able to confirm :)

#1124 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:54

And there in the square in all its glory is a 1960-62 Plymouth Uggle - I mean Valiant - a little outside its usual habitat.

Posted Image

1960 R series Chrysler Valiant in Australia. And yes it is a little 'lost'.

#1125 Macca

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 14:48

Thanks for posting the pic! :)

Presumably Denny does not appear anywhere else in the movie?


No he doesn't - I don't think his name is even mentioned aloud. However he is listed in the drivers who were involved in the filming, and he can be seen at Monaco with Jochen Rindt here, driving a Lotus 20/22 which has recently been for sale complete with fake bodywork.

Frankenheimer decided to concentrate on teams he thought would be at every GP with their new cars, and at the beginning of the season McLaren must have seemed a better bet than Brabham. How things panned out in the real WDC during 1966 made filming of real on-track footage, with raceday atmosphere and crowds, increasingly difficult - also Ferrari didn't help matters by missing Brands.

Also in 1966 Hulme wasn't a big name; Jochen Rindt gets a mention at Spa and Brands IIRC but otherwise, of drivers who were taking part in the WDC and not playing someone else in the film (e.g. Bondurant, Hill G, Hill P, etc.), only Jack Brabham is both seen on track and mentioned by Antony Marsh in the voice-over.

Strictly speaking, she's not wearing Chris Amon's helmet; his had the red on (his) left hand side. She's wearing Pete Aron's, which was a mirror image.


Here is the other bloke with a white/red/blue helmet:

Posted Image

Paul M

#1126 Peter Darley

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 15:54





Here is the other bloke with a white/red/blue helmet:

Posted Image

Paul M
[/quote]
........with Mauro Forghieri

#1127 Twin Window

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 00:02

Katie wasn't it ? Think Twinny may be able to confirm :)

Hand-on-heart I can't say for sure that it is Katie in the photo, but the likelihood is that it is her - unless she's a companion of Garner's of course.

I met Katie outside the Tip Top bar in Monaco, 1981. She was with a friend, I was with Tommy, and Katie and I got on really well so we arranged to meet either later that night or the next evening (I forget which). Shortly after Katie and her friend left us they attended a party on a yacht where Roberto was also in attendance. Apparently Katie took one look at him, turned to her friend and said 'I'm going to marry that man'. And, of course, she duly did!

Not my best of days, woman-wise... hahaha!

#1128 Macca

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 11:44

Posted Image

Barlini's girlfriend Lisa does seem to have had a thing about Yamura drivers' helmets....

Paul M

#1129 swintex

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:08

Seen in Volterra, Toscano, a couple of weeks ago. Posted Image
Richard

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#1130 B Squared

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:17

from GQ magazine. Scroll through, you'll find Francoise Hardy.

http://www.gq.com/wo...en-of-rock-poll

#1131 Macca

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 19:41

Sadly that street name has nothing to do with 'Mimmo' Dei or Jean-Pierre Sarti, but merely refers to tailors.........

That GQ list contains a lot of people I've never heard of (sorry, "of whom I have never heard") but it's always nice to see Francoise - here's another picture, of unknown credit:
Posted Image

And while it might be more correctly on the Youtube thread, Yves Montand is seen in this clip:
http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=71639

Next time, another location found............


Paul M



#1132 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:49

.......... but it's always nice to see Francoise - here's another picture, of unknown credit:


Paul M


With Eugenio Dragoni behind her.

#1133 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 16:51

I see that the soundtrack is available on CD at a variety of prices ... http://www.amazon.co...P...1205&sr=8-1

It's not available on iTunes, but the "Overture" is as a single download off MJ's "Greatest Hits".

I'm planning on giving it an airing on my 60s radio show tomorrow night, Wednesday 13th, broadcast in the UK from 6pm until 8pm on the internet based Radio Warrington, so available worldwide here
http://www.radiowarrington.co.uk/

Through a link to "What's New Pussycat" I can also give Francoise Hardy a mention too, and let Jones the Voice fill the airwaves!

Drop me an email via the contact page if you are tuned in, I'll give you a mention wherever you are :up:

Rob :wave:

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 12 October 2010 - 23:03.


#1134 Macca

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 15:34

I shall definitely log on to listen, Rob.

Now, while I was looking for something completely different the other week, I found this photo among an album of a chap's holiday snaps from 1966, coincidentally:

Posted Image

which rang a bell; so a screen-grab from the DVD produced this:

Posted Image

All that is missing is the name of the outcrop in the view............


Paul M



#1135 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 15:43

Can't remember that bit in the film Paul!

While I was sorting through my CDs looking for another MJ film theme I realised that my "100 Years of Cinema" has the Grand Prix theme on, so no need for the overture. There's another 79p down the drain to Apple!

Drop me a note to the station to let me know you are tuned in Paul - I'd advise getting the listen in bit sorted some time before kick off just in case you have to fiddle with any software.

Cheers

Rob :wave:
PS just had a goosebump moment listening to it :up:

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 13 October 2010 - 15:59.


#1136 Barry Boor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 15:55

Is it correct that fiddling with software is no longer a chargeable offence - as with Muffin the Mule?

#1137 SEdward

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 13:32

A fairly tenuous link with "Grand Prix", but here is Françoise in action at the very beginning of her career, singing the song that launched her career in France in 1962.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

And another pre-Somerville clip. A Serge Gainsbourg song.


Et voici un autre.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I just love those sunken cheeks! If anyone can find a more beautiful singer than Françoise, I'll buy them a pint!

Edward

Edited by SEdward, 15 November 2010 - 14:00.


#1138 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 14:09

A fairly tenuous link with "Grand Prix", but here is Françoise in action at the very beginning of her career, singing the song that launched her career in France in 1962.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

And another pre-Somerville clip. A Serge Gainsbourg song.


Et voici un autre.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I just love those sunken cheeks! If anyone can find a more beautiful singer than Françoise, I'll buy them a pint!

Edward


Debbie Harry, Edward?

#1139 Team Result

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 02:58

Debbie Harry, Edward?


Ah, Hardy and Harry - I wouldn't mind being Christian Horner to those two - would get more than my feet twitching!

Completely OT, though in the interests of fair play, I present
Blondie performing Denis. Highlights include Debbie over-selling herself (pout, hair-toss, blowing a kiss) and
her New Yorkesque French. (My all-time favourite Blondie track remains Dreaming - includes memorable drum intro).





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#1140 SEdward

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 20:04

No comparison, I'm afraid. Once you'd stripped the makeup and the peroxide off Debbie Harry, she was a pretty ordinary looking gal.

Françoise, on the other hand, is as pure as a mountain stream...

Edward

#1141 GD66

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:57

No comparison, I'm afraid. Once you'd stripped the makeup and the peroxide off Debbie Harry, she was a pretty ordinary looking gal.

Edward




Ordinary then, and now still touring, several years later and several sizes larger. When is it over ?


#1142 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:11

After the fat lady stops singing, presumably.

#1143 Macca

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 20:08

We seem to have gone some way off topic - FWIW Ms Harry in her heyday and Mlle Hardy nowadays share the title of aeroplane blonde

Anyway, for Francoise fans, another old cinema lobby card, probably only used in France:
 

hardy-3_zps19ed9c2c.jpg

Rob, I'm afraid during your radio show you gave away the film's ending to all those listeners who haven't yet seen the film but will undoubtedly tune in next time it's on TCM in the afternoons............

Surely everyone must have noticed the similarities last weekend? Four drivers in contention for the WDC at the last round, two of them team-mates, one a veteran colonial (well, 'ex' since 1776) trying to grab his last chance, and Ferrari one of the three teams involved.............and there the coincidences end!

Paul M


Edited by Macca, 08 September 2013 - 13:42.


#1144 Barry Boor

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:29

Thank goodness!

#1145 gwk

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:59

Not exctly Francoise Hardy, but here's a New York Times article on Brian Bedford. The movie gets a nod.

http://www.nytimes.c.../09bedford.html

#1146 nigel5

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 01:01

In post #802 from nearly two years ago, R.W.Mckenzie spotted the shot from the 'Monaco GP' of Stoddard passing Sarti which was supposed to be the Casino Square-Mirabeau section wasn't actually filmed there............ a crack team of TNFers (no Carruthers, I said a CRACK team....) who went to the HMGP a couple of years ago looked around for the location, without success.

I recently asked another contact who lives in Monaco if he could help, and after looking around himself and also asking some friends who know what changes have been made in the principality since 1966, another blank was drawn.

So I reckoned that the person who suggested it wasn't necessarily Monaco might be right. The only clue is the name on one of the shopfronts visible, 'Marquise de Sevigny', a firm in Paris which still makes luxury chocolates today, so I looked at their website with a view to asking them if they'd had a shop in Monaco or somewhere nearby in 1966. Unfortunately they changed ownership in 1970 and again in 1973, so addresses of old shops were probably lost and it didn't seem worth trying to contact them.

Then as I looked at their history, I saw they were founded in the town of Royat, which rang a bell - it's the small town between the city of Clermont-Ferrand and the Charade circuit, where I'd found the garage and street locations for the shots of the Ferraris being used for a fashion shoot and then driven to the circuit. So I looked at Royat (which is on Google Street View) and found the Boulevard Vazquez -

The building at the far end is now painted white, but there has been little change otherwise:

Posted Image

Posted Image

The Marquise de Sevigny shop is still there:

Posted Image

And there is some writing in a shop window in 1966 which I couldn't quite read, but it says 'Aux Douceurs' and the shop is also still there:

Posted Image
Posted Image

And here is an aerial view:
Posted Image

Happy Christmas, everyone!
Paul M


Fantastic Job Macca :clap: :clap: :clap: :up: :up: :up:
Thank you very much :eek:

But does someone know why this shot was not filmed at MonteCarlo, but filmed at Royat ????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:



#1147 R.W. Mackenzie

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:23

I've always assumed it was because they decided after the fact that they need a shot of Stoddard passing Sarti to fit the story line. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to just for a couple of seconds of action.

What amazes me is how Macca figured out where it was actually filmed. That was an extraordinary piece of detective work.

Bob Mackenzie

#1148 eldougo

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:47


Fantastic Job Macca :clap: :clap: :clap: :up: :up: :up:

But does someone know why this shot was not filmed at MonteCarlo, but filmed at Royat

I would hazard a guess and say MONEY MONEY MONEY :up:


#1149 sonar

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 15:37

Didn't Frankenheimer get in some kind of trouble with the Monte Carlo entrepreneurs while filming there?
On the special edition dvd there's an interview with Frankenheimer and a bit of film in which Frankenheimer clearly isn't making himself very popular with the local shopkeepers.

There was also a Mr Simon Arron on this dvd.
I only noticed that the last time I watched it.

#1150 Macca

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 21:44

As to finding that location, it was just as I said - I got a clue about the town of Royat and looked at an aerial view for a few minutes until the shape of that street hit me.

Way back in this long, long thread, I think a magazine article about the making of the film was quoted. It seems much of Monaco belonged to Onassis in 1966 and he was at odds with the Monegasque government/royal family so, apart from on the real GP circuit closure days, Frankenheimer couldn't get all the the circuit to film on (or maybe his budget didn't stretch to sweetening both parties!), so he had to film when and where he could.

Also the script was constantly evolving, I believe, so when they needed some shots of Stoddard passing Sarti either they hadn't got any usable footage of the real race or they couldn't get the necessary bit of track to film a recreation for the above reasons and decided (in the interests of artistic verisimilitude, to add corroborative detail) to use Royat.

(I think I should have spotted the Royat connection sooner - the faked Brabham/Ferrari was only seen at Clermont-Ferrand and Brands in the film!)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 14 January 2011 - 21:47.