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'Grand Prix' - the out-takes?


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#1351 Macca

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:47

Yes, but that particular car that Garner is sitting in is a Lotus 25.

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Paul M

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#1352 Macca

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:16

As a change from Francoise, here is Jessica Walter (at Monza?)

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and an excerpt from a recent radio interview:

Quote:
"Any fun stories about “Grand Prix?”"

Oh, “Grand Prix,” my God. You know that was one of my first movies, and what a trip that was. We followed the Grand Prix circuit and it was one of the last, budget is no kind of limit movie. Traveling all over Europe, meeting those international stars. I was 24 years old when I did that movie and there was Yves Montand and Toshiro Mifune, you know who was a big star in Japan before and after. And Eva Marie Saint, and chauffeured limousines 24 hours a day. I mean, it was like a fantasy the whole thing. And the great John Frankenheimer was the director, “The Manchurian Candidate” among other things. It was quite an experience, I was gone for five months in Europe, and I was very happy to be home, I kissed the ground. How old are you?

''I’m 27.''

I can tell from your voice, this person’s not very old. I love that you know some of the things from the old days, like “Grand Prix,” or “Misty.” ‘Cause that’s from a long time ago.

"With your connections to Ron Howard, and he is doing a film about Grand Prix racing called “Rush,” have you discussed with him about doing a cameo as a callback to the role in ”Grand Prix?”"

Wow, you know I didn’t even know he was doing that, so that shows you where I am, I know nothing about that. I didn’t even know he was going to do a racing movie. At the time, Steve McQueen did a racing movie called, “LeMans,” which was about that racing circuit and it was a big race, and you should pardon the pun, race to see who would get on first. Steve McQueen in “LeMans,” or James Garner in “Grand Prix.” And we went on first. There was a rivalry there, not between the guys but between the films. I never saw “LeMans,” did you?

"No, I hadn’t. I only know Steve McQueen from “Bullitt,” that’s got the big car chase."

Yeah, he was the big hot star at the time. But, so was James Garner, really big. And a sweeter, nicer person never in the world is there than Jim Garner, that I can tell you.

unquote


Paul M

#1353 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:05

Yes, that's all very well but she has such bony knees! :(

Edited by Barry Boor, 30 January 2013 - 10:07.


#1354 275 GTB-4

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:33

Yes, that's all very well but she has such bony knees! :(


You men are just...so....shallow :cat:

#1355 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:40

I have to be, I can't swim.


#1356 Spa65

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:11

Yes, but that particular car that Garner is sitting in is a Lotus 25.


Definitely not a Lotus 25. Possibly a Brabham, or maybe even one of the Jim Russell non-GP cars.

#1357 Ted Walker

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:21

I have printed a large number of photos taken during filming at Brands. I will have them for sale at Race Retro in Feb

#1358 nicanary

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 13:18

Definitely not a Lotus 25. Possibly a Brabham, or maybe even one of the Jim Russell non-GP cars.


It looks to me like one of the faux-Honda "Yamura" cars - in which case it will be one of the Russell FJ cars. The raised bodywork behind the driver simulates the engine cover of the Honda.


#1359 Macca

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 13:42

Look at the picture in post 1321, which is the same car from a different angle - you can see the mesh cover over the real intakes, and the top link of the rear suspension, also the shape of the bulkhead. Then compare to the car in post 1330 which is a Lotus 20 - no top link, no mesh intake cover.

MGM had 3 Lotus 25/33s, and I think the one Garner sometimes drove was 25/R6

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and see this pic also.

One of the Brabhams, Climax-powered and disguised as a Ferrari, can be seen in the photo with Jess.

Paul M

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#1360 nicanary

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 14:45

Apologies - what I thought was a Yamura is in fact a copy of Bruce McLaren's M2B - I'll take your word for it that a Lotus 25 lay beneath. I haven't seen the film for 20 years or more, and my memory is fading.

#1361 Macca

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 17:57

It's a couple of weeks since we've had a photo of FH:

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Paul M

#1362 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:07

BROADCAST ALERT!

Scheduled to be aired on Turner Classic Movies in North America @ 3pm EST, Monday, February 18. That' today, chaps! :)



#1363 Doug Nye

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 00:04

Having watched the movie being shot at Brands Hatch and Zandvoort '66 I must say it's rather jolly to see a pic of Jessica Walter earlier in this thread. While the camera lens adored Ms Hardy the effect wasn't quite so pleasing, as I recall, on a 20-year-old Brit's eyeballs. Complexion like a gravel drive, as I recall. Ms Walter, however, was a different matter... :blush: Strange, maybe, but true.

DCN


#1364 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 00:14

Thankfully it's not an either/or situation with regard to Mlle Hardy and Ms. Walter, and there's nothing strange about admiring the latter, though she will always be remembered primarily as the psycho in "Play Misty For Me". She still seems to be in work, voicing the Mrs. Robinson-like Mallory Archer in the salty "Archer" cartoon series which airs occasionally on Channel 5.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 25 February 2013 - 00:15.


#1365 Macca

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 13:38

One episode of 'Archer' is set in Monaco at Grand Prix time - it can be seen here

I leave to others to comment on the track layout, type/colours of cars, etc., etc.

Paul M

#1366 Macca

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 16:30

I don't know who this chap is but he is sitting in Mlle Hardy's fake Eagle in Monte Carlo.

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Peter Ustinov was also in Monaco during filming.....perhaps seeking inspiration for a sequel to the 'GP du Roc'

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Montand was looking pretty cool:

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while Rindt was one of the drivers standing in for Bedford

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Paul M

#1367 john winfield

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 18:05

I don't know who this chap is but he is sitting in Mlle Hardy's fake Eagle in Monte Carlo.

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Paul M


I'm guessing really, but it looks a bit like Johnny Lurani.


#1368 Macca

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:01

It doesn't look like my mental image of Johnny Lurani, perhaps someone can confirm that?

The McLaren M3 'whoosh-bonk' camera car was used at Monaco as well as later in the shooting:

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but I hadn't seen a photo of it other than onboard until recently:

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and to finish, another of Francoise:

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Paul M

#1369 Roger Clark

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 18:34

For Macca and others:

http://thebluemoment.../17/lamour-fou/

#1370 richie

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 20:40

Physically they used Stewart's helmet to match the BRM car and driver in the real races but the character was closer to Clark's style and personality. But most of it was just fiction.



Bruce Anderson commented on his father Bob's role in the film: "I have a copy of the original press and and magazine release in which dad is in a photo with Hill, Stewart and some of the actors. And of course, I have the film on DVD where he gets a great mention and in 5th place at the start of the Monaco GP."

#1371 richie

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 20:40

Physically they used Stewart's helmet to match the BRM car and driver in the real races but the character was closer to Clark's style and personality. But most of it was just fiction.




Edited by richie, 18 April 2013 - 05:54.


#1372 richie

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 20:47

Where's Bob Anderson in the credits?

Edited by richie, 18 April 2013 - 05:55.


#1373 Gary C

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 22:51

I can't believe this thread is still going nearly TWELVE YEARS after I started it !!

#1374 275 GTB-4

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 00:52

I can't believe this thread is still going nearly TWELVE YEARS after I started it !!


Yes Gazza...you have a lot to answer for :clap:

#1375 Macca

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 20:28

In Motor Sport in IIRC late 1967 DSJ recounted how he had bought a set of colour postcards in Italy of 1966 F1 cars, but on looking closely found that several were actually of Frankenheimer's fakes.

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Here is one from Monza; Aron appears to be contemplating a return to Jordan-BRM as he sits in Bob Turner's car.

(and the obligatory FH photo, with JB and what looks like it might be Ken Costello's self-disguised F3 Brabham)

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Paul M (with thanks to Gary!)

#1376 dbltop

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:32

With strategically placed helmet to hide the stiffened suspension? ;-)

#1377 bradbury west

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 16:44

Check pages 11 & 12, plus a couple of shots on p10, incl, O/T one of Ruth Ellis next to a Lotus 6.
http://www.mirrorpix.com/webgate/
Roger Lund

#1378 911

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 17:59

I don't know who this chap is but he is sitting in Mlle Hardy's fake Eagle in Monte Carlo.

Posted Image

Peter Ustinov was also in Monaco during filming.....perhaps seeking inspiration for a sequel to the 'GP du Roc'

Posted Image

Montand was looking pretty cool:

Posted Image

while Rindt was one of the drivers standing in for Bedford

Posted Image

Paul M


He has Jackie Stewart's/Scott Stoddard's helmet here. Was he the double for him in this movie? I read that Brian Bedford was not too good behind the wheel.. :)

#1379 Macca

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 20:26

Check pages 11 & 12, plus a couple of shots on p10, incl, O/T one of Ruth Ellis next to a Lotus 6.
http://www.mirrorpix.com/webgate/
Roger Lund


What search terms do we need to use, Roger?

Here is an interesting photo, of Surtees and Garner at Silverstone, I think, but with what car?



'In 1969, Denis Jenkinson wrote:

"Earlier this year in Italy I bought a collection of 12 coloured postcards of racing cars, principally because the top one on the pack was a very good photo of a P4 Ferrari prototype. The set cost about 10s and were very neatly packed in a cardboard frame, but as I looked through them I became a bit disturbed. Eagle, Honda and Brabham Grand Prix cars were fine, and the colours were good, but there were three in the set, of a Ferrari, a BRM and a McLaren that appeared to be driven by the same driver, at least as far as the helmet colours were concerned. The captions on the back said Amon, Stewart and McLaren, and while the first one clearly was Amon, the second was not Stewart, and the third one was obviously Rindt. "Now wait a minute," I thought, "when did Rindt ever driver a McLaren?" The photo was taken at Monza, passing an empty grandstand which was puzzling. The BRM pertaining to be Stewart in an H-16 car was obviously the wrong colour green, whereas the other photos were very good colour reproductions. While scanning the H-16 photo the penny dropped, for in the background was a lot of camera equipment. Rindt was not in a McLaren, he was in an old Formula Three car faked to look like a McLaren, and the H-16 BRM was another film-phoney, with a "stand-in" in the cockpit. Amon in the genuine Ferrari V12 was wearing the James Garner red, white and blue sequence crash hat, which somehow was being worn by Rindt in the phoney McLaren at a later date, and the unknown "extra" in the BRM somewhere else.

"So thanks to Hollywood coming to Europe and "doing good for the sport", a very nice and well-balanced selection of colour postcards has been upset by the introduction, unwittingly I am sure, of two fake cars. However, perhaps I am wrong for this set could become very valuable like a series of stamps with the wrong perforations, or those classic Italian 500-lire coins on which the engraver had the sails of a boat blowing in one direction and the flag in the opposite direction! Perhaps in 20 years time my 10s collection of picture postcards will be become a collectors item and Southeby's Auction will raise £100 for them. Perhaps! If they do I'll buy Frankenheimer the dinner he always promised me but never got round to buying, at which he was going to ask me why I did not like his film.

"I am sure Hollywood’s invasion of the Grand Prix paddock did someone some good somewhere, but so far it has not been very obvious."

Has anyone seen these photos? I would rather like to see Rindt in a Formula 3 car, faked to look like a McLaren and wearing the Amon/Aron helmet. ' (Roger Clark in 2003)


This is the quote by DSJ in MS - presumably the photo I posted of the 'BRM' is one of the three; perhaps this is another:

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Paul M

Edited by Macca, 13 May 2013 - 20:38.


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#1380 R.W. Mackenzie

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 21:39

Here is an interesting photo, of Surtees and Garner at Silverstone, I think, but with what car?

Paul M


Jim Garner ran Scooter Patrick in Surtees TS5 in the 1969 SCCA Formula A series.

This article gives the details of the whole complex story:

Visit My Website

(Regardless of the name of the link, it's not my website!)

Bob Mackenzie


#1381 bradbury west

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 15:45

What search terms do we need to use, Roger?
Paul M


Sorry, Paul, and others. Idiot that I am, I failed to check that the page linked correctly. Just type in Brands Hatch in the main search box, and then go to pages 10.11 & 12. It works eqaully well with the other main circuits, some interesting stuff there.
Roger Lund

Original post above;
Check pages 11 & 12, plus a couple of shots on p10, incl, O/T one of Ruth Ellis next to a Lotus 6.
http://www.mirrorpix.com/webgate/

Edited by bradbury west, 14 May 2013 - 15:47.


#1382 Macca

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 20:34

Jim Garner ran Scooter Patrick in Surtees TS5 in the 1969 SCCA Formula A series.

This article gives the details of the whole complex story:

Visit My Website

(Regardless of the name of the link, it's not my website!)

Bob Mackenzie


So it's Garner trying the first TS5 for size at Silverstone in 1968-69 - is that Scooter Patrick on the left?

BTW Bob, you can change the name of a linked website to anything you like by overwriting the words 'Visit my website', like so: ORC Surtees TS5 page

The Mirrorpics pages for Brands Hatch do indeed show some interesting shots, though on pages 18 & 19 there are some strange images captioned as 'Jacky Ickx'.....

and returning to Francoise...

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FH: "Hard settings? Wet rubber?"
JB: !


Paul M

#1383 R.W. Mackenzie

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 20:58

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the tip.

That's not Scooter on the left but it very definitely could be him on the right.

Apparently he has been having health problems in the recent past:

Scooter Patrick Fund Raiser

Bob Mackenzie

#1384 Macca

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:19

Posted Image
(copyright the Henry Ford Collection)

Shelby, Garner and Ginther at Watkins Glen, 1966 - the GT40 camera car was there too but Frankenheimer didn't have time to cut in any of the footage before the film was released.

Paul M

#1385 Macca

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 16:24

He has Jackie Stewart's/Scott Stoddard's helmet here. Was he the double for him in this movie? I read that Brian Bedford was not too good behind the wheel.. :)


Bedford didn't do any of his own driving..........but I am puzzled as to how they shot the Monaco in-car piece where he pulls down his face-mask to swear at Aron.

Here are Montand and Phil Hill at Monaco, where Phil was also doubling for Bedford:

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and the obligatory FH pic, with NGH:

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Paul M

#1386 Macca

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 20:01

Sadly Alan Whicker has died at 87 - interviewing James Garner in Monaco for the programme about the making of 'Grand Prix', part of which was used I think on the video box set's extended footage or whatever they call it:

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RIP to a great traveller and presenter.

Paul M

#1387 Macca

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 18:08

I am beginning to suspect - no, I am pretty much abso-b****y-lutely sure - that I am now the only one with any interest in this thread.................yet there are still unseen photos surfacing, and questions to be asked. :well:

Posted Image

so here is one from Clermont-Ferrand with a line-up that includes the real Francoise Hardy and the real Jo Siffert......but who are the others?

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 07 August 2013 - 14:11.


#1388 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 18:54

Is that Richie Ginther on the far right?

#1389 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 19:42

- that I am now the only one with any interest in this thread.................


No you're not. We are just silent in amazement this great thread continues!!

#1390 Keir

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 19:52

Keep it going Macca. I can't wait to see what comes up next

#1391 jonpollak

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 23:22

No you're not.


+1
Jp

#1392 jeffbee

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:34

I am beginning to suspect - no, I am pretty much abso-b****y-lutely sure - that I am now the only one with any interest in this thread.................yet there are still unseen photos surfacing, and questions to be asked. :well:

Posted Image

so here is one from Clermont-Ferrand with a line-up that includes the real Francoise Hardy and the real Jo Siffert......but who are the others?

Paul M


No, this thread should live forever.

Any thread that keeps us topped up with pictures of the delectable Miss F H needs no further justification.

And, yes, I think that is Ritchie Ginther on the far right.

#1393 charles r

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:36

QUOTE (Macca @ Aug 3 2013, 18:08) Posted ImageI am beginning to suspect - no, I am pretty much abso-b****y-lutely sure - that I am now the only one with any interest in this thread.................yet there are still unseen photos surfacing, and questions to be asked. :well:


Absolutely untrue! Keep the out-takes coming. They're wonderful (esp FH)!

#1394 D-Type

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:49

I suspect I'm like many here in that I have nothing to add but enjoy the contributions of those who have.

Keep 'em coming! Not only about FH, but also Ferraris masquerading as FJ Lotuses and vice versa, French country towns masquerading as Monaco, etc.

Edited by D-Type, 06 August 2013 - 12:49.


#1395 Coral

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 14:49

Macca, I would just like to say how much I enjoy this thread and really appreciate your efforts, keep up the good work! :up: :)

#1396 Rob29

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 16:04

Macca, I would just like to say how much I enjoy this thread and really appreciate your efforts, keep up the good work! :up: :)

ditto :wave:

#1397 vashlin

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 17:11

ditto :wave:



I second that ditto. :up:

LinC

#1398 Macca

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 14:22

Thank you for those comments........

Back to the last photo, of which I have now posted a larger copy, the person on the right is the right height for Ginther but not facially. The ones either side of Mlle Hardy look a bit like Brian Redman and Dan Gurney, but not enough to be them; and the one on the left in BRM-type orange overalls looks a bit like David Lazenby of Lotus.

Probably they were just a bunch of French clubbie drivers who happened to be there during filming....

A different angle on the grid, with Sarti hooked up to the GT40 alongside Randolph and Barlini:

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and in Royat:

Posted Image

Paul M

#1399 retriever

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:44

Thank you for those comments........

Back to the last photo, of which I have now posted a larger copy, the person on the right is the right height for Ginther but not facially. The ones either side of Mlle Hardy look a bit like Brian Redman and Dan Gurney, but not enough to be them; and the one on the left in BRM-type orange overalls looks a bit like David Lazenby of Lotus.

Probably they were just a bunch of French clubbie drivers who happened to be there during filming....

A different angle on the grid, with Sarti hooked up to the GT40 alongside Randolph and Barlini:

Posted Image

and in Royat:

Posted Image

Paul M


Bottom right in the top picture is the late Jack Watson who played Jeff Jordan in the film. A stalwart supporting actor, like Nigel Green, of a number of films in the 1960s.

I too love this topic - there are those amongst us on this forum who in the past have pointed out errors/mistakes/shortcomings in 'Grand Prix' but for me, and I expect many others too - as time passes and as the current Grand Prix scene descends further into farce - the 'patina' of this production improves evermore with the passing of time.

Thank you Macca this topic and thank you to the Stills Photographers who captured it all. Keep up the good work

ps. I never saw the film when in first came out - my first viewing was in 1968 at a psychiatric hospital where I worked in the finance office. Films used to be rented and shown in the main hall on a late Friday afternoon to the residents so I watched it with a colleague after work. Forty five years later the music still remains in mind as does the work of musical director and those in the editing suite who blended film and music together so well.

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#1400 MCS

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 21:11

...The ones either side of Mlle Hardy look a bit like Brian Redman and Dan Gurney, but not enough to be them...


Astonishingly like Brian Redman, but could it be?

Irrespective, great thread. An easy favourite :up: