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'Grand Prix' - the out-takes?


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#351 Macca

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:51

Finished skimming the novel last night....................too much porn, quite a bit about the kinky habits of Count Hugo, not enough cars, a lot of inconsistencies from the film, nothing else that helps with the points from the 1966 WDC, and only a couple of other drivers' names mentioned.

It did answer one puzzle.................why the credits mentioned who played a character named Wallace Bennett who wasn't identified in the film. It seems he was the team manager of Jordan-BRM (a sort of Andrew Ferguson/Peter Warr to the Chapmanesque Jordan), presumably the bloke who said to Jordan at Monaco "You can't blame Pete for wanting to race", and he was more prominent in the book.


Paul M

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#352 Keir

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 13:37

I'll be reading it soon !!

#353 MPea3

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 13:53

Originally posted by lanciaman
Don't have an opinion on Butler coeds as my wife might be looking over my shoulder.


I do. Ask Buford too. Indy women are the wildest women on the face of the earth.

#354 Martyj

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 14:25

And so with my previous post I end my Atlas F1 adaptation of "Grand Prix" the novel at the conclusion of section 1 of chapter one. It was just to give everyone a flavor of the appalling prose, worthy of Bulwer-Lytton Turgid prose competition, as lanciaman suggests.

Much of the rest of the book follows the same route, including the soft porn and inconsistencies with the film that Macca points out, such as this account of how Jordan fires Aron after the Monaco incident...


...Jordan tore away from Bennett and pushed his whiskey-flushed face close to Pete's. "You're a ruddy coward, Aron! A coward! I've known it for a long time. Well, you're all through now. You're fired! And if I can blackball you I will--you'll never race this circuit again if I have anything to--"

Pete hit him then. He sank a left into the thin man's belly, the crossed a straight right, a hard right that sent a shock clear up to his elbow. Jordan, pole-axed, fell forward as an unconscious man does.

Bennett said: "Oh, Jesus Christ!"

Pete stared at Bennett for a moment. "I did wave him through, you know. Check the pictures if you want to--they'll show I did." He legged it into the jeep, where the flag marshall was staring with an open mouth.

"Come on," said Pete. "Let's get the hell out of here."

#355 Keir

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 14:32

I would have knocked Jordan on his ass as well. Garner should have done it in the film !!

#356 Ivan

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 19:05

Martyj,
When I read that in the book I couldn't stop laughing.
That would have been great in the movie.

#357 ensign14

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 19:08

Yeah, typical Aron, didn't have the intellect to match Jordan so hit him. Real classy.

#358 Macca

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 09:30

Posted Image

Another still, showing Barlini rolling into the pits in practise at Monza.................in a real Ferrari 312.


Paul M

#359 Keir

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 14:57

Ensign14,
I don't think it comes down to intellect in moments like that !! :

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#360 Macca

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 16:32

http://www.buioomega..._GRANDPRIX1.jpg
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Another 'Lisa' picture for Keir!

http://www.buioomega..._GRANDPRIX2.jpg
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I like this man - he's playing with Dinky and Corgi racing cars, and he's got a Matchbox Lotus 25 in his hand!

(see my 'loads of old rubbish' - mostly Matchbox Lotus 25s)

Presumably this was a 'storyboard' for planning the on-track filming.........but I think that, apart from Dinky Ferrari 156s, Lotus 21s, BRM P578s and Cooper T53s, and Corgi Ferrari 156s and Lotus 25s, and a couple of Matchbox Lotus 25s, I can also glimpse the tail of a Corgi Vanwall behind his nose.

So maybe that's where Manning Lee Stokes got the idea of a Vanwall at Monaco..............

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 27 December 2009 - 20:22.


#361 Breadmaster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 16:36

i'd have thought that images 3 & 4 from the same site were far more Keir's style.....

#362 Keir

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 17:02

Yeah,

...... but can we get Nino to take a walk ??

#363 Breadmaster

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:57

heh heh heh....

#364 275 GTB-4

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 11:17

Originally posted by Catalina Park


I just thought I would highlight this line for any Aussies that may have missed it! :rotfl:


Yeah....Wombats tend to eat root and leave :wave:

#365 Macca

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 16:42

Posted Image

In honour of Dan's birthday..................seen with Paul Frere, Bruce McLaren, Jo Schlesser, Nino Barlini and Jo Siffert in yet another still.


Paul M

#366 Macca

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 15:12

Posted Image

Here's that picture of the side-exhaust BRM P261 (c/n? DCN? Allen?) at Zandvoort for the shots over-the-shoulder of Scott taking pole - copyright Sutton Image as watermark.


Paul M

#367 racer69

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:41

What a pity the likes of Days of Thunder and Drivel.....sorry i mean Driven won't be discussed and remembered with this sort enthusiastic approach in 40 years time :lol:

#368 Ivan

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 15:17

You have a point but, as legendary as the movie Grand Prix now is, I don't think it started out that way. I think it was a sleeper when it came out.

#369 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 02:42

Originally posted by Ivan
You have a point but, as legendary as the movie Grand Prix now is, I don't think it started out that way. I think it was a sleeper when it came out.


Hmmmm....well I think it was pretty damn special when it came out.....Cinerama was a stunning wide screen development and the arty farty use of multi windows/cameras overloaded fairly bored cinema goers with information. What with Hatari and How the West was Won and other blockbusters it was the start of a new era.

For motor racing enthuiasists at the time starved for real entertainment off track it was a brilliant departure from months old magazines, radio and newspapers and the wonderful little newsreels you tended to survive on.

IMHO it was real buzz and I enjoyed the heck out of it :up:

#370 Ivan

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 15:05

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
IMHO it was real buzz and I enjoyed the heck out of it :up:

Well, I was 5 when I saw this movie for the first time and I was hooked. But, what does a 5 year old know? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#371 Macca

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:57

The other Turner painting seen in the movie is of a Ferrari 158 ahead of a BRM P261 at Monaco, presumably Sarti's second WDC in 1964.................a bit like this

Posted Image

Bob Turner with bristling moustache in BRM, of course.



Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 20:26.


#372 Keir

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 13:56

..... and before the tragic "Beer in the eye" incident !!

#373 GeorgeTheCar

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 17:23

I saw "Grand Prix" with fellow members of the Motorsport Club of Ottawa at the premiere in Ottawa, Ontario Canada.

I was thrilled and have watched the commercial version on SpeedTV. A digital version woudl be great!

#374 Macca

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 10:54

From the infamous novelisation..........................apart from the Vanwall (!) at Monaco, it seems firstly that Aron used to drive for Connaught (which apparently had very fussy instrument panels compared to the Jordan-BRM), and that he had only recently changed from centre-throttle - so he must have had the last racing-car in the world like that!

I wonder where Stokes got that from...............at random from a history book, probably.


Paul M

#375 ensign14

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 11:11

Yes, I understand Aron was managed by promoter Ernie Beccenham, who owned the Connaught. Ernie got him a job with his special Analogue TV station whilst he was "between drives".

#376 Macca

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:36

Didn't EB have some dodgy business connections in the 1960s? Maybe that's why Pete's career ended a bit suddenly and he kept a low profile in the USA for a few years.................

Meanwhile, 'then & now' pictures of Sarti's crash, looking towards Curva Ascari:

Posted Image Posted Image

I wonder if that's a memorial I can see in the second picture...........

Paul M

#377 Keir

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:13

I know that Monza is a public park, but do they always have those barriers set up on the track ??

#378 MonzaDriver

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:21

Dear Macca,
I am sorry to contradict, but this is not the same place of Sarti's incident.
Surely it is the banking, but it is on the other side of the oval,
and the tarmac is not race track. It look the same yes.
I am sorry it is just to be useful to you and the other TNF.
HI.

MonzaDriver.

#379 SEdward

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:42

I confirm that the second photo is defintely NOT the point of the north banking where Sarti went over the top and that the road in the photo is not the current Monza circuit.

This photo was taken under the South banking at the other end of the park and road passing under the banking is the Viale Mirabello.

Edward

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#380 Pils1989

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 15:25

Here are pictures of where Sarti went off the banking at Monza if they might help you:
Posted Image
Posted Image
(Again, sorry Keir for the watermaks, I have the original pictures whith me in the US, I just need to find my scanner in my dozen of boxes)

#381 Macca

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 16:09

:blush: Oops......................

I've never actually been to Monza............but it's still no excuse!

(although the romantic overgrown South banking fits the then-and-now scenario nicely - and if there WAS a memorial stone there, even better..............)

:|



Paul M

#382 Macca

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 14:52

Anyway, here's another still with no watermark......................... :lol:

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note the exhaust that came off the backmarker's car......


Paul M

#383 Macca

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 15:55

This is the third Turner painting that is seen in the movie, in Sarti's flat:

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The commentator says Sarti won the WDC twice, so this must be his second in 1964; it's also said that he won Monaco three times before...............so 1964, and which other years?



Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 20:43.


#384 Frank S

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:36

Teaser:

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Not a link - yet

#385 Macca

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 09:28

Well...............since it's kinda small, I can only guess that the tall guy on the left is Garner, and from the bright sunshine it's not Europe!

A yellow crash hat...............but almost certainly not Trevor Taylor!

Is that someone Garner sponsored when he was involved in racing after the movie?



Meantime, another out-take.......© Rainer Schlegelmilch, 'Grand Prix de Monaco':

Posted Image

Paul M

#386 Keir

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 14:35

That is a great shot !!

#387 Frank S

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 16:50

Originally posted by Frank S
Teaser:

Posted Image Posted Image

Not a link - yet



#388 Macca

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 13:41

No, still no idea.

One last out-take:

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© Rainer Schlegelmilch

Sarti being congratulated after winning at Monaco.


Paul M

#389 Frank S

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 19:56

Originally posted by Frank S
Teaser:

Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image

Not a link - yet



#390 Macca

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 17:08

It's Garner in a Lotus 20 or 22 in the USA - either pre-movie practise or starting his own racing team, don't know which.

Here's a little quiz:

1. Aron joined Ferrari in 1961 and won 5 GPs in 1962-63 - which ones?

2. Which GPs did Sarti win in the same period which gave him the 1961 WDC and no. 1 status over Aron?

3. Commentator at Monaco: ".....Stoddard in the dark-green BRM in which he has won so many races...." Which ones?

4. Other race placings & points for 1966, excluding Aron, Stoddard, Barlini and Sarti - details please.


Paul M

#391 Gary C

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 17:11

wouldn't it be brilliant if we could get Pete Aron over to run one of his cars at the Goodwood FoS ???

#392 Keir

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 15:31

Just got the novel, "Grand Prix" in the mail. I wanted to start reading it, but felt that once I started, I would not be able to put it down !!

#393 Macca

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 12:10

Keir, once you've started it, if you put it down you won't want to pick it up again....................

Regarding an earlier b/w picture I posted of fake cars lined-up at Monaco and who was driving them; I found a photo in 'Motor Racing' magazine of Frankenheimer at Monaco with his team of drivers - Ginther, Phil Hill and.....................Bandini.

Maybe Enzo didn't know one of his boys was pocketing some extra lira....


Paul M

#394 Keir

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 14:29

Paul,

I've found that it is just good pulp fiction and I'm enjoying it for what it is !!

#395 Ivan

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 01:44

Originally posted by Macca
Keir, once you've started it, if you put it down you won't want to pick it up again....................

Surely you are kidding...
This book has so many things that the movie didn't.

#396 Frank S

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 05:36

.
Two more teasers:

Posted Image Posted Image

#397 Macca

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 10:38

Originally posted by Ivan

Surely you are kidding...
This book has so many things that the movie didn't.


Yes, like Vanwalls and Connaughts.............................and lots of XXX action ;)

FrankS,
Phil Hill in ??? King Cobra (Shelby Cooper-Monaco-Ford), and a GT40....but where/when/why?


And it not just the 'Grand Prix out-takes we want to see, but 'Le Mans too........Mike Delaney and friends between takes:

Posted Image

Paul M

#398 Frank S

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 05:09

OK, no more teasers. Unless you regard a "taste" as another level of teaser.

I will be scanning and processing about thirty 3x5-inch photos as well as a magazine cover, table of contents, and ten pages of an article with twenty or so photos. I expect to make them available on FotoTime. It's a big job and will take some time, but I am excited and eager to do it.

The magazine is American Cinematographer, January 1967 issue. The article is "Filming The Races For 'GRAND PRIX' " by cinemaphotographer John Stephens. It is both technical, for cine-photo buffs, and descriptive, for Grand Prix and auto racing enthusiasts.

The photos were made by a member of the Panavision crew at the first RIR test session, which he described as a kind of competition between Todd-AO and Panavision, to see which system would work best in this monumental undertaking.

With patience and application, we'll get through it.

These are links:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

--
Frank S

#399 Macca

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:26

Frank S,
Thanks for that news and your efforts with the article - look forward to seeing it in time.

Now, another picture previously thought to be lost, of Pete Aron winning his first GP in France in 1962, just pipping Dennis Durland in the UDT Lotus 24 and Nev Naylor in the 25.

Posted Image

Pete got part of his reputation as a hard driver on cars from this race because he over-revved the Ferrari in the dash for the line and the engine blew immediately afterwards - Durland swerved to avoid him and had a bad crash, being thrown from the car and suffering a leg injury, particularly painful as he was allergic to morphine; while Naylor tried to squeeze through a too-narrow gap between Aron and the straw-bales and ripped all the wheels off his Lotus on the sturdy Ferrari, writing off chassis 25/R1.

More on Aron's early career later...................

;)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 19 February 2012 - 22:34.


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#400 Frank S

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 22:35

.
I've put the American Cinematographer "Filming Of ... " article (including a two-page advert for one of the equipment suppliers) H E R E. Photo Shop Elements 3 seems to do a good job of printing the pages at 8" x 10".

That wasn't so bad, was it?

Photos will take a little longer.