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'Grand Prix' - the out-takes?


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#401 Macca

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:55

Brilliant, Frank - many thanks for doing that.


And on page 9 it says how 16 Lotus F3 cars were converted by Jim Russell into F1 lookalikes, including one "Maseratti" (sic).......maybe they meant a Cooper-Maserati, or perhaps it ended up on the cutting-room floor, along with the Vanwall and Connaught mentioned in Manning Lee Stokes' paperback.



Paul M

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#402 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:51

Clearly when Aron left Ferrari he left behind his helmet for Sarti to use. :eek:

#403 Macca

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 13:12

Do you mean in FrankS's article links - if so, which photo is that, Barry? I can only see the Surtees and Parkes helmets.


And Aron's other GP wins at Ferrari in 1962-63..............or was the ROML in Autosport slightly out, and were they during the whole of his Ferrari time, 1961-63? Perhaps he finished runner-up to Sarti in the WDC in 1961, with a couple of wins at (possibly) Aintree and Zandvoort, then another at Spa in '62 and the last one at the 'Ring in '63?





Paul M

#404 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 21:05

On the computer I was looking at this morning, I could only see the blue stripe on Aron's helmet and thought it was the Surtees design.

On my own machine tonight, I see a sliver of red....

#405 Frank S

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 21:42

.
I've made enlargements of the magazine photos, on the same page:

H E R E

#406 Frank S

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 01:39

.

Access to photos made at the first Grand Prix
Riverside International Raceway "shakedown" session,
some time in 1965, and to the American Cinematographer
"Making of ... " article can be had from
H E R E

--
Frank ess

#407 Breadmaster

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 08:23

Those are fantastic pics - thanks frank!

#408 Macca

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 13:49

Great job, Frank.

I suppose I ought to gather all the stills I've posted on the various threads into one accessible album somewhere as well - I'll see what I can do.

Number 15 in the B&W pics is especially interesting........ Jack Brabham in what appears to be one of the disguised Lotus F3s - but it's got a transverse link and an anti-roll bar in the rear suspension, which would make it a 22 rather than a 20. And is that Adolfo Celli (left) talking to him?

And behind it is what looks like a Cooper-Climax T77 1.5L F1.


Paul M

#409 Macca

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 16:49

In the third picture on page 14, Garner is in a fake Lotus 25/Yamura at Zandvoort, with the engine cover removed and a fake spoiler fitted to replicate how McLaren's car looked in practise; but is that the real Brabham BT20 with Denny Hulme in it, behind him?

And on page 17, Garner is in the 'spinner', wearing a strange helmet and in a car faked-up as a BRM #14 - I wonder where they meant to use that shot?


Paul M

#410 Macca

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 16:28

The first re-shooting of the missing out-takes has now started - here is the grid. There are a couple of notable absentees: Tim Randolph and Mike Spence (work in progress), not to mention Dan Gurney, so a few unusual driver/car combinations from the period have seized their opportunity.............no. 89 is, of course, the first and only appearance of the all-Swedish Níkë F1 car powered (probably) by a s/c Saab engine and driven by Jarï Kritcher

Posted Image

Can you identify them all?

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 18:08.


#411 Keir

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 16:41

You're mad you know, quite mad !!! :drunk:

#412 Macca

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 14:42

Naaah mate, just a bit fluffy! And I've given up photographing my TV screen!

But did you spot the other competitors? On the outside of the fifth row is Tony Lanfranchi in a Pearce-Martin no. 17, and alongside Jarï on the back row is Trevor Taylor in the Shannon-Emery.

BTW, alongside Hulme on the fouth row is Jo Bonsiff...................you remember him in the movie, he was seen in the pits at Clermont-Ferrand with a beard, and then in the drivers' meeting at Spa with only a moustache.

;)

Paul M

(continuing to Forza Amon)

#413 Keir

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 15:44

That's why god makes razors and film editors !! :rotfl:

Nice collection of cars though !!

#414 Macca

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 15:55

Originally posted by Macca
In the third picture on page 14, Garner is in a fake Lotus 25/Yamura at Zandvoort, with the engine cover removed and a fake spoiler fitted to replicate how McLaren's car looked in practise; but is that the real Brabham BT20 with Denny Hulme in it, behind him?

Paul M


:blush:

On closer inspection, the Yamura has no upper rear link.................so it's a Lotus 20, with a bit of tin wrapped round the front upper wishbone, the front shocker painted black, and the engine dummied-up to look like a V8.

Keir,
In the movie we see Jo Bonnier in the pits at Clermont and Jo Siffert in the Spa drivers' meeting.....hence my composite driver.

And the third Ferrari on my grid.....................could that be the tall patrician French engineer-driver, Michel Garez, who got his F1 chance in 1966 after sportscar successes and who apparently didn't get on with Sarti?

Paul M

#415 Keir

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 16:04

Bonsiff, at least, is in the proper Walker colors !! :up:

#416 Tomas Karlsson

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 20:59

the all-Swedish Níkë F1 car powered (probably) by a s/c Saab engine and driven by Jarï Kritcher


That "all-Swedish" dosn't sound very Swedish to me. A Greek name with some exotic dots over the "e". And the driver sounds like half-Finnish and half-German to me (with yet more strange dots...). It must have been a very international "all-Swedish" effort. Tell us more!

#417 Gary C

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 07:07

Tomas, I think Macca is having a laugh!

#418 Tomas Karlsson

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:51

Aren't we all...?

#419 Macca

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 13:09

Yes, Jarï.............I mean Gary.................is right!

Anybody else notice how Garner looks very like to the character Troy Tempest from the 1960s children's TV series 'Stingray'? Did he play that part before or after Aron?

Posted Image


Paul M


(Actually I know Troy was modelled on Jim!)

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#420 Keir

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 15:40

Garner always had that classic movie guy look !!

He does look very "wooden" in that shot though !! :eek:

#421 Macca

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 15:03

Just picked up a snippet from reading DCN's 'BRM Vol. 2'...............the house or flat in the park at Monza where Sarti and Louise spent a lot of time actually belonged to 'Mimo' Dei of Scuderia Centro-Sud, entrant of private BRM's in 1963-4-5.


Paul M

#422 Keir

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 15:34

Who is DCN ?? :yawn:

#423 Macca

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 16:36

Wash your mouth out with soap!!!!!!!!!.......................Doug Nye, of course.


Paul M

#424 Keir

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 17:22

The name sounds familiar, what does he do for a living ??

Doesn't he do some sort of "stand up comedy" ???

....... oh silly me, that's Louis Nye !! or is he the chap that ran BRM for a while ??

No, no, that's Louis Stanley.

Who were we talking about ?? :rolleyes:

#425 Pedro 917

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 16:09

Found some pictures in l'Automobile, April 1967 issue :

Blackie and Françoise Hardy :
Posted Image

J.P. Sarti / Yves Montand at the wheel :
Posted Image

The filming of Stoddard's crash :
Posted Image

Posted Image

Phil Hill, Bonnier & Bondurand :
Posted Image

Ginther in the "Eagle" :
Posted Image

Aron's crash :
Posted Image

The Yamura (Formula Junior) cockpit :
Posted Image

The filming of Aron's Yamura on fire :
Posted Image

Françoise Hardy :
Posted Image

The actor's :
Posted Image

#426 ensign14

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 20:02

"Jack Watson"??? :eek:

#427 Gary C

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 20:10

I agree, that's not the Jack Watson I know!

#428 Barry Boor

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 20:11

Don't tell Brian Bedford!!!! :lol:

#429 scheivlak

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 22:25

Fantastic, Pedro!

"Tous les garçons....."

#430 D-Type

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 01:51

Originally posted by scheivlak
"Tous les garçons ....."

Posted Image


Posted Image


????

#431 Pils1989

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 02:33

I have an original print of the picture of P. Hill and Bonnier. I bought it with a dozen of them from Cahier last year but I can't put them online:(

#432 Keir

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 14:32

I think that Jack might have to take a few moments before he can stand up and walk !! :eek:

Thanks Pedro for the great pics !!!

#433 scheivlak

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 22:32

Originally posted by D-Type

????

http://www.retrojeun...oise.hardy.html
http://www.fhardy.de...les_filles.html
http://www.chordie.c...esFilles.chopro
http://www.francoise...aphie/index.htm

Some more?
:D

#434 Keir

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 16:27

Francoise, mon cherie !!

#435 Pils1989

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 16:48

mA cherie :p

#436 Keir

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 17:05

Thems fightin' words !! I saw her first !! :mad:

#437 Macca

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 14:00

Brilliant pics - bravo sir!

Those Eagles carrying #4 and 30 are interesting; #4 has the 'real' exhaust on the right although it appears to be a Lotus 20 FJ (the others mostly had it on the left), and I wonder what that hump in the rear bodywork was supposed to be? Also it has only 8 fake exhaust headers.

#30 has the real intakes under a small hump on the left side (right side as we look at it), but neither of them appear to have any fake intakes.

I wonder whether Jim Russell's boys copied the Indy Eagle drawings by mistake? Anyway, the Eagles in 'Grand Prix' resemble the drawings here:
http://www.vsrnonlin..._V3N10_p481.jpg

more than they do the real ones - or vice-versa. The #19 at Monaco in this pic is exactly like the Model Car drawing!

Posted Image

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 31 August 2012 - 18:13.


#438 Keir

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 15:29

Paul,
Nice pick up !!

The Eagles always looked great - real or copies !!

#439 Macca

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 15:13

Something that bothered me from the first time I saw the movie in 1967 is that in the opening shots of the drivers getting ready for the start at Monaco there is a rear view of a driver wearing a black helmet with an orange stripe - and even at that tender age I knew there was then no F1 driver with those colours.

Here are the driver credits, from a movie website:
GRAND PRIX
JAMES GARNER - EVA MARIE SAINT - YVES MONTAND

APPEARANCES BY:
GRAHAM HILL - PHIL HILL - CHRIS AMON
LORNEZO BANDINI - JEAN-PIERRE BELTOISE - JOAKIM BONNIER
JACK BRABHAM - KEN COSTILLO - JUAN MANUEL FANGIO
NINO FARINA - PAUL FRERE - RICHIE GINTHER
DAN GURNEY - DENNIS HULME - TONY LANFRANCHI
GUY LIGIER - BRUCE McLAREN - MICHAEL PARKES
ANDRE PILETTE - TEDDY PILETTE - PETER REVSON
JOCHEN RINDT - JIM RUSSELL (I) - LUDOVICO SCARFIOTTI
JO SCHLESSER - SKIP SCOTT - JO SIFFERT
MIKE SPENCE

and I googled for Skip Scott and found a b/w photo showing a dark helmet with a light stripe - would that be him?

But who is/was Ken Costillo (or Costello)?

Paul M

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#440 Keir

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 15:26

Paul,

Just when you think we've finally said all there is to be said about "GP", you drag us back in !!!

#441 Macca

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 15:51

Now, you know that until all those missing stills, both MGM's and private collectors', are discovered and published, and all the questions answered, it will never have been all said!

Obviously some people ended on the cutting-room floor (Beltoise, not seen, and Farina & the Pillettes - who we've seen in stills only).

I've also heard of a chap in the UK who has one of the 'slot cars', ex-movie Lotus 22 still with its fake Lotus movie long nose - I'll try and get a picture.


Paul M

(forza Sarti?)

#442 Rob Ryder

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 21:04

Macca
Bob Bondurant had a black helmet with a light stripe (from the rear) but it was white IIRC.
He as also involved with the film, so maybe him?
Rob

#443 Ivan

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 03:30

Pedro,
Thanks for the great pics!!! :up:

#444 luisfelipetrigo

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 03:38

Originally posted by Macca

APPEARANCES BY:
GRAHAM HILL - PHIL HILL - CHRIS AMON
LORNEZO BANDINI - JEAN-PIERRE BELTOISE - JOAKIM BONNIER
JACK BRABHAM - KEN COSTILLO - JUAN MANUEL FANGIO
NINO FARINA - PAUL FRERE - RICHIE GINTHER
DAN GURNEY - DENNIS HULME - TONY LANFRANCHI
GUY LIGIER - BRUCE McLAREN - MICHAEL PARKES
ANDRE PILETTE - TEDDY PILETTE - PETER REVSON
JOCHEN RINDT - JIM RUSSELL (I) - LUDOVICO SCARFIOTTI
JO SCHLESSER - SKIP SCOTT - JO SIFFERT
MIKE SPENCE


Not in the list, but definitely in the movie

Pedro Rodriguez

then on a Cooper Maserati

#445 Rob29

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 08:16

Originally posted by Macca


But who is/was Ken Costillo (or Costello)?

Paul M

Ken Costello raced a Brabham BT16 in British F3 8 times in 1966

#446 Macca

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 09:09

RobRyder,
Bondurant's was black/white stripe & border, and the b/w photo of Skip Scott on a website showed a broad grey stripe on a black helmet from the front - which seems to correspond with the black/orange seen in the movie.

So how come Skip was involved? He wasn't entered in the Monaco F3 race but he was racing the Essex Wire GT40 in European endurance races, so maybe Bondurant was a friend who got him the job.


Luifelipetrigo,
The driver credits in the movie are only for people used in staged shots or driving the 'kiddy car' fakes - many of the F1 drivers (and Paul Frere and Cahier) are seen in the drivers meeting, and the non-F1 drivers drove the fakes together with some of the F1 drivers. Drivers whose cars happened to be seen in the cut-in footage of real races aren't credited, even if their name is heard on the track commentary.


Rob29,
Thanks for that about Costello - I guess he was an instructor at the Jim Russell school who did some of the driving with Russell in the movie.


Paul M

#447 petefenelon

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 10:25

Originally posted by Rob29
Ken Costello raced a Brabham BT16 in British F3 8 times in 1966


Anything to do with the Ken Costello who put V8s into MGBs?

#448 ian senior

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 10:50

Originally posted by petefenelon


Anything to do with the Ken Costello who put V8s into MGBs?


I think that's him.

"TNF shock - Ian Senior replies to a Grand Prix thread in a constructive manner".

#449 Macca

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 13:14

:lol:

"TNF sensation - iansenior AND petefenelon reply to a Grand Prix thread in a constructive manner!"

:kiss:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Here are two more photos from the original movie programme, showing, presumably, one of the Cobra camera-car drivers and his crash-hat.............but I thought most of the high-speed GT40 and Cobra driving was done by Phil Hill, Ginther and Bondurant.........so who is he?


Paul M

#450 Keir

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 15:03

..... and don't forget Amon !! Chris drove the GT40 "chariot" and the "spin doctor."