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Jim Hall & Chaparral back in the saddle at Elkhart Lake


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#1 AyePirate

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Posted 30 August 2001 - 19:50

Posted Image
From the Stirling Moss family of websites (StirlingMoss.com,
JackBrabham.com, PhilHill.com) comes this cool featurecovering Jim Hall and Chaparral's recent appearance at the Brian Redman International Challenge on July 22nd of this
year. In addition to the story is a nice gallery of photos from the event.

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#2 MOTORSPORT RESORT

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Posted 30 August 2001 - 20:04

What's always amazed me, is that Hall still has all his cars, I wonder what other driver / manufacture has done that? :cool: :up:

I wish I only kept a few
of the racer's I once owned.
speedy@f1power.com

#3 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 30 August 2001 - 20:42

Most of Jim Hall cars will be in a museum somewhere in 2002. They are currently building a wing in a museum (let me check the name) in Midland. I can't want to see the cars once it's get completed and openned.

#4 rdrcr

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Posted 30 August 2001 - 21:18

Thanks for the link and the news...

His museum should house some excellent memorabilia. I'm very happy he have managed to keep examples of his cars in a collection. Something Dan Gurney was unable to do.

#5 BRG

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 12:46

Looking at that array of beautiful cars, the lack of any sponsorship on them struck me. I know it was in the pre-sponsor days, but how did Jim Hall finance the operation? Many of his designs were innovative and probably expensive to build. Anyone know?

#6 Don Capps

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 15:17

BRG, From the 2 Series forward it was General Motors through its R&D shop that provided "assistance" to Hall. It took various forms and was an up & down affair, but Paul Valkenberg wrote a wonderful book about it -- which I need to replace.... -- Chevrolet = Racing? or something similar. I think we had thread on it some months ago.

The already brilliant mind and ability of Hall linked with the enthusiasm of the GM engineers was a dynamic force in US racing. Just look at how much of the "modern" racing car can be traced to the Chaparral team for its first practical application to racing? Let me tell you, when the 2E was unveiled in the paddock at Bridgehampton in 1966, you cannot even begin to imagine the reaction. I was absolutely floored -- agog! It just looked so... "modern."

That was one of my great moments in motor sports -- we were just stunned....

#7 MacRacer

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 15:40

Yikes!!!! Can-Am talk on the F1 site!!!!!!! My favorite racing subject.

The book about Chevrolet's involvement is

Chevrolet=Racing...?
Fourteen Years of Raucous Silence

another great one is

Can-Am by Pete Lyons

The Can-Am cars of that era were faster than the F1 cars! I have been fortunate to have run the Elkhart event for many years' where it is possible to experience these cars and race against the "gods" of my youth. What is also great about Mr. Hall and the others is that they bring the cars out and run them in anger instead of trapping them in a museum. Thirty Can-Am cars in Thunder Valley sounds at least as good as F1..........

#8 BRG

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 16:20

Thanks Don. I had heard something about alloy Chevy blocks that Chaparral used which were said to come under the table because of GM's non-competition policy. But I did not know that there was significant factory support. I will look back for that earlier thread and maybe see if I can track down that book - it sounds the sort of underhand political stuff that I relish!

These were brilliant cars - I remember seeing the wing-car at Brands Hatch (IIRC it was the coupe) but I can't remember the model number - and were like nothing we had seen before. Those were great days for sports cars with the traditional Ferraris etc being challenged by Lola and Ford and then the upstart Porsches as well, with wild designs like Chaparral and Howmet thrown in to leaven the mix.

#9 Roger Clark

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 17:23

The Chevrolet involvement in the Chaparral was always denied. There was a story that Jim Hall bought bougt a lot of trucks for his oil bsiness. One day a batch of them just happend to have aluminium engines...these things happen in large scale production.

#10 MacRacer

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 19:36

The Chevrolet involvement in the Chaparral was always denied. There was a story that Jim Hall bought bougt a lot of trucks for his oil bsiness. One day a batch of them just happend to have aluminium engines...these things happen in large scale production.

Great story!


McLaren and others recieved special components from Chevrolet, also. There is a story that Penske had special engine blocks cast and machined at the factory and then they dissapeared into production cars, never to be found again!

#11 rdrcr

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 01:41

Originally posted by Don Capps
...The already brilliant mind and ability of Hall linked with the enthusiasm of the GM engineers was a dynamic force in US racing. Just look at how much of the "modern" racing car can be traced to the Chaparral team for its first practical application to racing? Let me tell you, when the 2E was unveiled in the paddock at Bridgehampton in 1966, you cannot even begin to imagine the reaction. I was absolutely floored -- agog! It just looked so... "modern."

That was one of my great moments in motor sports -- we were just stunned....



I echo your thoughts... I was just a tad younger, building the model of the 2E... I must have been about 9 or 10 at the time.

The cars still look very contemporary to this day. A testimony to Hall's styling and eye for design. Does anyone know if he had an in house designer or were the design's done by the man himself?

And does anyone know how many are in private hands?

#12 MacRacer

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 02:35

The cars still look very contemporary to this day. A testimony to Hall's styling and eye for design. Does anyone know if he had an in house designer or were the design's done by the man himself?



To my eye the styling is a continuation of the work Chuck Pelly did for Reventlow and then Hall when Troutman and Barnes were building the cars. There is a lot of Lister / Scarab / Birdcage look to it all mixed in with southern California modern.........then the form began to eveolve as science (aerodynamics) took over. n any event they are teenager's wet dream.......:)

All the chassis are accounted for and a few are in private hands.

#13 David M. Kane

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 03:18

Oil, Texas crude, black gold...if you've never been to Lubbock,
Midland and these other oil towns it is hard to imagine what oil
money is all about.

Lets not forget that when Jim Hall decided to start building his
own cars he went back to College, Cornell to be specific and got
a masters degree in Aeronautical Engineering.

#14 cabianca

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 05:20

I believe the aluminum blocks were developed by Reynolds Aluminum, not Chevrolet. Obviously, Chevrolet had to cooperate, but Reynolds did most of the R&D the McLarens carried Reynolds decals because of this deal.

Doubt the truck story is true, because Jim Hall was never in a business that used trucks. Pumped oil. It went into pipelines.

Also don't think Jim Hall went to Cornell. He already had a degree from the California Institute of Technology in Mechanical Engineering. Since he had been racing for years before he built his own cars, some of the biographical material in the buff mags would have picked up getting a second degree. Don't know where he would have found time between running his oil business. building the Chapparals and racing.

The Chapparals were mythical enough. Let's not try to make them more so. Along with Don, I was there that day at Bridgehampton in 1966, and the Chapparals were amazing. However, Chapparal only won one Can Am race in their history, so no matter how advanced, they weren't very effective in that series. They sure as hell got a lot of ink between the ill-fated 2J and the sucker car.

GM's Jim Musser ultimately screwed Chapparal, forcing them into the Trans Am and allocating GM's Can Am budget to McLaren. Penske got GM's Indy budget for his stock-block Lolas even tho he was racing against them in the Trans Am with AMC Javelins. Musser was a bean counter and Hall & Penske ultimately moved on although Roger later sold Chevrolet the naming rights to the Ilmor Indy engine before selling the same rights to Mercedes later. Strangely enough, Roger owned a sizable piece of Ilmor, and still does.

#15 MacRacer

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 06:35

from cabianca

I believe the aluminum blocks were developed by Reynolds Aluminum, not Chevrolet. Obviously, Chevrolet had to cooperate, but Reynolds did most of the R&D the McLarens carried Reynolds decals because of this deal.



The first aluminum block engines were "small blocks" and developed by Chevrolet. Jim Hall got them first. Bruce McLaren got a couple later on. Then Chevrolet developed the alloy "big block" and Hall suffered with those for a season. Once they worked the bugs out, McLaren and Penske got them. Later on Reynolds got involved to promote their 390 alloy block....as in the Vega. The 390 alloy allowed linerless engine bores and bigger displacement.

#16 MOTORSPORT RESORT

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 16:47

I have a nice story to share about Jim Hall, It was at Sebring, at a vintage festival, I think 1983>84? anyway, it was one of the first times he brought out one of his cars the 2E with "zoome" pipe's, I was there with a Alfa 1300 Devin, and had at my shop a very interesting alloy body of what looked like a front engined Chaparral ? I took the photos to Troutman & Barnes in Calif: they said it must be a "one off" special built by GM for Jim Hall.. So I knew he was to attend the festival, and saw his car in the paddock area, and asked where Jim Hall is? Oh he's changing into his race suit in his trailer Over >>>>there...So I look at this trailer, a old beat-up single axle trailer with "plywood" sides towed by a even more wreck, a 50's something rusted Ford pickup. I looked inside, and there he was by himself, no support crew, no parts, no tools, nothing! I asked are you Jim Hall? yup!..Did you drive this wreck all the way here from Texas by your self? yup! (Shit) I thought, what happens if something goes wrong? It was the same unit I used to tow it to all the early races, I thought it would be (vintage).. sure was! showed the photo's, and her looked and looked, then said, ask Troutman & Barnes...I said I did, well, boy, I can't help you...that was it...never did find out what that car was? No I don't have it any more...(too bad)
His car ran all weekend and then he towed it back to Midland Texas, I guess he made it...

Very cool guy I thought:up:

speedy@f1power.com:smoking:

#17 RA Historian

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 20:53

Originally posted by rdrcr
And does anyone know how many are in private hands?

Last I heard, all the 2 series cars are owned by Jim Hall and are in the Petroleum Museum in Midland, Texas. He does bring one or more out every now and then for a big event such as Goodwood or Monterey. He never sold any of the 2 series cars. By the way, there are far fewer 2 series cars in existence than one may think. They were constantly being remade into newer cars. For example, there were three 2-As, but they morphed into 2-Ds, and then into the 2-F. The one 2-C became a 2-E. which became a 2-G, and so on.

There were five Chaparral 1 front engine cars, built by Troutman-Barnes. Last I heard, chassis 001 is owned by Jack Boxstrom; 002, the Meister Brauser car, is owned by Tom Hollfelder; 003 by Rob Walton; 004, the Team Meridian car, essentially does not exist as it was destroyed in the mid 1960s. However, a car purporting to be the 004, and built up around the original shift knob, is out there somewhere on the auction trail. 005 is owned, I believe, by Richard Falconer.

Incidentally, a fine book was published about a dozen or so years ago by Classic Motorbooks, entitled "Chaparral". It was by the aforementioned Mr. Falconer, along with Doug Nye, so you know it is good.
Tom

#18 Jerry Entin

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 22:32

Tom: None of the first four Troutman/Barnes Chaparrals had any chassis numbers. Only number five, exported to the UK, had one, probably for customs purposes.

all research Willem Oosthoek.

#19 RA Historian

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 02:04

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Tom: None of the first four Troutman/Barnes Chaparrals had any chassis numbers. Only number five, exported to the UK, had one, probably for customs purposes.

all research Willem Oosthoek.

Quite true, but the numbers 001 through 004 were applied retroactively by historians in the order that the cars were built in order to aid in identification. Much as with the Scarabs which also did not have serial numbers back in the day, but have had numbers assigned after the fact for the reasons cited above.
Tom

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#20 David M. Kane

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 02:15

The Tom Hollfelder car was restored in Queenstown, New Zealand fyi.

#21 Jerry Entin

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 09:36

What is so special about a three-digit chassis number when none existed in the first place? Why not "indulge" in chassis 1, 2, 3 ...... or 01, 02, 03 ....... or 0001, 0002, 0003. Misguided Scarab historians and eager auctioneers should stick to first, second, third chassis built. Period.
Opinion as stated by Willem Oosthoek.

#22 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:16

Originally posted by MOTORSPORT RESORT
What's always amazed me, is that Hall still has all his cars, I wonder what other driver / manufacture has done that? :cool: :up:

I wish I only kept a few
of the racer's I once owned.
speedy@f1power.com


McLaren have a least one of every type built, both pre and post Ron Dennis, though a lot of them are in storage because of a "conflict" between sponsors prevented them being displayed at the factory.

Bernie Ecclestone has nearly all of the Brabhams built while he owned it, and even some of those currently being run are still owned by him, just not run by him.

My office used to overlook the hanger, and at one side a huge rack, with the noses of GP cars from BT 37 to BT60 poking out, like a huge toy box!!! Of course that's in addition to cars he owns that he didn't have built!

#23 B Squared

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:53

Roger Penske has a very nice assortment of cars that Penske Cars built & that Team Penske has run. I believe that Frank Williams has a nice collection of his cars. Parnelli Jones and A.J. Foyt are two others that I think have kept quite a few over the years.

Brian

#24 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:26

The vast majority of the Williams collection was to be sold at auction, until an unnamed business man brought the lot for approx' £27m (strangley at about the time Ferrari got £27m ponds to stay with FOM/FIA Concorde Agreement to bring about the end of the GPMA breakaway) and just after the "sale" Williams also jumped from GPMA to FOM/FIA. Not suggesting anything, just reporting ;)

#25 B Squared

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:31

Thanks Steve - I thought that the Williams cars for sale were "excess", I didn't realize it was his primary collection. In a way kind of sad that he had to let them go for economic reasons.

Brian

#26 red stick

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 14:36

Originally posted by B Squared
Roger Penske has a very nice assortment of cars that Penske Cars built & that Team Penske has run. I believe that Frank Williams has a nice collection of his cars. Parnelli Jones and A.J. Foyt are two others that I think have kept quite a few over the years.

Brian


Penske has several cars on display at one of his Arizona dealerships, but it's a fraction of the cars he has raced over the years. Does Foyt have any on display?

That's the beauty of Hall's arrangement with The Petroleum Museum--Midland's a bit of a hike, but the cars are nicely presented.

http://petroleummuse...ryExhibits.html

http://petroleummuse...alleryTour.html

#27 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 14:58

Originally posted by B Squared
Thanks Steve - I thought that the Williams cars for sale were "excess", I didn't realize it was his primary collection. In a way kind of sad that he had to let them go for economic reasons.

Brian


Not 100% on this, but I think the sweetner from the tiny businessman (oh, what a give a way!!) was that Frank got the money, and kept the cars, although I'm not convinced the origanl sale was for "economic" reasons. The sale wasn't long after the helpful cleaner at Williams saw a big smudge of rubber on the sidepod of the Villeneuve championship winning car, and cleaned it off................ :eek:

#28 red stick

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 15:08

Originally posted by f1steveuk
The sale wasn't long after the helpful cleaner at Williams saw a big smudge of rubber on the sidepod of the Villeneuve championship winning car, and cleaned it off................ :eek:


:eek: indeed!

#29 RA Historian

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 16:08

Originally posted by red stick
Does Foyt have any on display?

I believe that Foyt auctioned off a large portion, if not all, of his collection around 1994 or so.
Tom

#30 RA Historian

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 16:09

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
What is so special about a three-digit chassis number when none existed in the first place?

Just being contemporary, Jerry and Willem.
Tom

#31 wildman

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 17:34

Originally posted by f1steveuk
McLaren have a least one of every type built, both pre and post Ron Dennis

Don't think so. Both of the original M6GTs are in private hands, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for both of the surviving M20s and the lone M25. And of course, none of the original M8Bs survive in their original form.

#32 sterling49

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 18:42

Originally posted by AyePirate
Posted Image
From the Stirling Moss family of websites (StirlingMoss.com,
JackBrabham.com, PhilHill.com) comes this cool featurecovering Jim Hall and Chaparral's recent appearance at the Brian Redman International Challenge on July 22nd of this
year. In addition to the story is a nice gallery of photos from the event.


That 2F looks as good as that day at Brands in 1967 :up: I now have a great picture of this hanging in my lounge, a beautiful car :love:

#33 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 19:13

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wildman

Don't think so. Both of the original M6GTs are in private hands, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for both of the surviving M20s and the lone M25. And of course, none of the original M8Bs survive in their original form.
[/QUOTE

I was refering to single seater racing cars, sorry, and I should have put "nearly all", where's me coat.........

#34 scooperman

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 22:23

There was a company making 1:24 slot cars, slot car motors, and so forth called Cox. They sold various Chaparral models in the day. I have a recollection that the real Chaparral race cars displayed a Cox decal, or was that decal just on the models?

#35 red stick

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 22:57

The Cox decal appeared on several of the race cars.