32 replies to this topic

[josh.lintz]

I read in Grand Prix! (Vol.2) and the Directory of Formula One Cars (by Anthony Pritchard), that Cosworth had plans for their own F1 car. Supposedly, one was built and displayed around 1968-69(?), but never raced.

My question is, did it ever have ANY competition history, and are there ANY pictures of the car?

[Wolf]

Josh- my copy of "Grand Prix!" has a photo in't... I could have it scanned if it is of any interest to You.

[Flicker]

Enjoy!

[Barry Boor]

For a car that never raced, isn't it odd that it underwent so many changes of design?

Quite an achievement to alter the design that often and still produce one of the ugliest creatures ever to set wheel on a race track!

[Martyj]

Anyone have any idea on who is doing the test driving in the pictures posted above?

[desmo]

I can remember thinking how devilishly modern that car looked at the time. I was really disappointed that it never raced. Now it just looks really ugly. What would have become of Cosworth if the car had been successful?

[Wolf]

Desmo- considering it was 4WD, nothing much I guess.;)

[Felix Muelas]

Martyj

I think the man driving the car on the last picture is Trevor Taylor, whilst the man at the wheel on the middle one might be Mike Costin.

It looks like there might be shots around showing also Brian Redman and Sir Jackie Stewart at the wheel. Whilst I had never heard about this last one before, David Hodges mentions the fact, so good enough place to quote it.

Felix

[Roger Clark]

Felix is right about mike Costin. I too had not heard of Stewart driving that car. It seems unlikely as he was also involved with the Matra MS84, but it's possible the Ford connection brought it about.

[Martyj]

To answer my own question, I think one of those drivers might be Derek Bell. I faintly recall his name being connected with this project.

[William Hunt]

Mike Costin is the man in the middle picture , Brian Redman below.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Derek Bell was involved in McLaren's 4WD project.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by William Hunt
Mike Costin is the man in the middle picture , Brian Redman below.

Not sure about the middle picture, but the lower one is Trevor Taylor, not Brian Redman. according to Hodges A-Z of Formula Racing Cars.

[Roger Clark]

The Cosworth was tested extensively at Silverstone in the week before the 1969 British Grand Prix. Brian Redman was the nominated driver but the car was damaged in a road accident on its way to the circuit. By the time it was repaired, Redman had left for the USA, the Watkins Glen 6 hours, which he won with Jo Siffert. I don't believe Redman ever drove the Cosworth.

Mike Costin then did the initial tests before Trevor Taylor was brough in. During testing on the Tuesday before the Grand Prix the car sufferred from the heat generated by the front differential. this caused oil in the front mounted oil tank to overheat. The car was taken away for modifications, including the re-siting of the tank. Taylor's best lap was said to be around 1min 27sec, which would have put him with the other 4WD cars, the McLaren M9A, the Matra MS84 and two Lotus 63s at the back of the grid.

One minor mytery: Autosport said that Taylor's time was set despite using a two year old 7-series engine. Yet I have also read that a special magnesium DFV was built for the car, several years before Cosworth built them for their customers.

[josh.lintz]

Thanks for the info and pictures!

I guess my memory is fading a bit...I must look at my copy of Grand Prix! again.

[axlex]

Hi evrybody...

Does anyone knows what are the tyres used on the Cosworth F1 car suring his tests ?

Thanks in advance for this information.

[macoran]

Only pic showing a tyre marque I have on file is this one..............Dunlop

[David M. Kane]

One thing out of this project was that Robin Herd stole the design of the rim pattern to use on the Marches.

[macoran]

Originally posted by macoran
Only pic showing a tyre marque I have on file is this one..............Dunlop

All the cutaway drawings I have are of the above car rather than the "aero"model.
Anybody seen an "aero" Cosworth 4wd cutaway ?

and BTW did the car have a Cosworth model nr ? or was it just Cosworth 4wd ?

[axlex]

Originally posted by macoran


All the cutaway drawings I have are of the above car rather than the "aero"model.
Anybody seen an "aero" Cosworth 4wd cutaway ?

and BTW did the car have a Cosworth model nr ? or was it just Cosworth 4wd ?

Thanks for the confirmation about Dunlop !

Most of the time, I found the Cosworth car named "Cosworth 1"... But, sometimes I found "Cosworth 4WD" or "Cosworth 4WD1"... So, like the majority was "Cosworth 1", I still use this name...

[Bonde]

Dave,

Robin Herd did most of the design work on the Cosworth, so he just sort of "carried" part of his "own" his design work with him to March...

I think the inspiration for those Cosworth-then-on-to-March wheels actually came from those of Len Terry's beautyful Gurney Eagle...

[Bonde]

Marc,

I'm curious: What cutaways other than that of Brian Hatton exist of the Cosworth 4WD?

[macoran]

Originally posted by Bonde
Marc,

I'm curious: What cutaways other than that of Brian Hatton exist of the Cosworth 4WD?

The B.Hatton one was published in Motor.
I also have a John Hostler on file which I think is from Autocar, as well as a
cutaway showing only the 4wd driveline, could be a Hatton as it is in the
same projection angle.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by macoran


All the cutaway drawings I have are of the above car rather than the "aero"model.
Anybody seen an "aero" Cosworth 4wd cutaway ?

and BTW did the car have a Cosworth model nr ? or was it just Cosworth 4wd ?

What do you mean by the "aero" model? They tried a couple of different wings during testing but wasn't it all with the same car.

I would be very surprised if there was a model number. There was no need to distinguish it from any other Cosworth cars.

[macoran]

Originally posted by Flicker
Enjoy!

I refer to this one as the "aero" model, i.e. the Donington Exhibition version

[macoran]

The John Hostler cutaway



and the unsigned driveline one

[macoran]

Originally posted by Felix Muelas
Martyj

I think the man driving the car on the last picture is Trevor Taylor, whilst the man at the wheel on the middle one might be Mike Costin.

It looks like there might be shots around showing also Brian Redman and Sir Jackie Stewart at the wheel. Whilst I had never heard about this last one before, David Hodges mentions the fact, so good enough place to quote it.

Felix

If you "click" on the pictures as if trying to save them
you will see that the middle pic is titled Costin test
and the lower one Redman test

[David M. Kane]

The rim stealing comment came from Keith Duckworth...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
One thing out of this project was that Robin Herd stole the design of the rim pattern to use on the Marches.

Since Robin was one of the designers of the Cosworth, and Cosworth were never in the car or wheel business, I think "stole" is putting it a bit strongly; it's only natural that his wheels for March the next year would've looked similar. DKD did a froth-job when someone looked at the Cosworth and observed that it had March wheels ;)

[David M. Kane]

Fair enough...I was just trying attribute who said what to who...I still think they are one of the prettiest designs of all time.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Fair enough...I was just trying attribute who said what to who...I still think they are one of the prettiest designs of all time.

They are a classic of "form follows function" certainly - didn't March use the same basic design for most of the 70s?

[Roger Clark]

Does anyone know when the wider wheel fairings were fitted? I can't recall seeing a contemporary photograph with them fitted.

If you ignore those fairings, the nose of the Cosworth looks remarkably similar to the March 712.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
For a car that never raced, isn't it odd that it underwent so many changes of design?

Quite an achievement to alter the design that often and still produce one of the ugliest creatures ever to set wheel on a race track!

Lucky Cosworth stuck to designing and building Engines, chassis and aerodynamics were definitely not their area of expertise!.