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Indy 500 Data


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#1 quintin cloud

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 12:11

Hi All

I am search for indy 500 racing car data, to follow up what mean by my request is can anybody help out names cars used in all the indy 500's from 1911 to 2001, the info I'm trying to get my hands on is the classis model and engine model eg: Lotus 79 - Ford DFV V8. I have had a look at the indy 500 webpage and motorsport page with no luck :rolleyes:

Can some help me :confused:

Thanks

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 12:23

Quintin: Fines probably has a lot of this data, but you could try seeking out a copy of "Indianapolis 500 Chronicle" by Rick Popely. I picked up a copy at Goodwood this year.

It's a "promotional" book, if you get my meaning - theoretically published at a high price and sold apparently cheaply. It has full race results 1911-1998. Chassis and engine makes are given, but not always type numbers, especially for early years. Lots of good pictures too, including almost every starter! I don't know if there's a specialist in SA who could get it for you - I got mine from Mill House Books.

Publisher is Publications International Inc. ISBN 0-7853-2798-3

#3 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 13:25

Quentin

Most Indy cars did not have the 'type' or 'model' that we expect with European 'formula' cars. Any database set up for formula cars would have fields for 'marque' (or 'constructor'), 'model' (or 'type') and 'chassis number' (or 'serial') - such as March 722 15. In the US the team owner is of greater importance as is the builder, who may well be an employee (Clint Brawner at Dean Van Lines or Dave Laycock at Gene White) with the car being given a name which could be the team owner, such as "Zink Trackburner", or the builder, such as Brawner, or even a made up name such as Hawk (the Brawner-built cars) or Mongoose (Laycock's cars).

To confuse things even further, the car might keep the name of the car originally copied (very common in the '60s and '70s) so either Hawk or Mongoose might appear as Brabham in some people's lists.

The 'type' rarely exists and the year is the nearest equivalent. So you will see '65 Hawk or '67 Hawk rather than Hawk Mk1 and Hawk Mk3. The Eagle's are a good example here. The first Indy Eagle was officially the Mk2 but you'll usually see it listed as the 66 Eagle. As an aside, the T1F and T1G designation of the F1 Eagles appear to be a later invention by journalists or historians.

Chassis numbers are also rare. The Eagles have proper numbers (the Mk2 numbers were 201, 202, 203 etc and the 1968 Formula A Eagle Mk5 numbers were 501, 502 etc) but once they focused on Indy racing in 1969 the type numbers were forgotten and they used the year instead. So the 1972 Indy Eagle was just the 72 Eagle and chassis numbers were 7201, 7202 etc.

The Hawks in 1965 were just Hawk Tube A and Hawk Tube B - and I'm not sure Clint Brawner even bothered to be that precise. I am not aware of any numbers on the Mongoose cars.

The people who produced cars for customers, such as Watson and Kurtis, may have had more of a system but I'm not good on the roadster era. I'm sure other, wiser heads can advise.

Allen

#4 Don Capps

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 13:36

Try here for the information you are looking for and then get a copy of the Jack Fox book on Indy or the Indianapolis 500 Chronicle already mentioned:

http://www.motorsport.com/stats/champ/

The information is that collected by Phil Harms from the AAA and USAC scoring records and is probably the best such data available. It includes all the events on the Championship Trail and not just Indy.

#5 FLB

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 13:49

Also look for either Floyd Clymer or Carl Hungness Indy annuals if you can. Some issues are available via online bookstores. Hungness used to carry chassis numbers for the starters, not only chassis types. Unfortunately, the IRL annuals do NOT carry that information, though you could contact the teams directly, as most are very fan-friendly.

#6 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 17:11

Originally posted by FLB
... Hungness used to carry chassis numbers for the starters, not only chassis types ...

Really!! When? I must have been looking at the wrong years.

Allen

#7 FLB

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 17:57

I need to re-check for specifics as I don't have my issues with me, but from memory at least from 1982 onwards, along the short individual texts and pictures and not on an actual stand-alone list.

#8 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 18:13

From 1983 up to 1995 all the chassis # for the 33 starters are included in the Hungness Yearbooks.

#9 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 22:59

Indianapolis 500 Chronicles is a good damn book. I suggest seeking it at Waldenbooks. I bought it at a discount rack for 8 bucks. It based from 1911-1998. Some nice stories like boy scouts seeking Teo Fabi autograph days before winning the pole.

#10 Rob G

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Posted 19 September 2001 - 01:50

I have a copy of Indianapolis 500 Chronicles too, and the value for money is simply staggering. You get full results and photos of every single car that ever started the 500 (in color from 1958 onwards). I highly recommend it.

#11 quintin cloud

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Posted 19 September 2001 - 08:21

Thats great :up: Question to those who have the book, what is the difference between the two the books listed at Amazon other than the price:

Rick Popely: Indianapolis 500 Chronicle
Rick Popely with L Spencer Riggs: Indianapolis 500 Chronicle

and how many pages make up the results and data about the car info :confused:

#12 quintin cloud

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Posted 19 September 2001 - 11:54

Don thanks for the web address, I see that the 1996 to 2001 IRL chassis model numbers are listed and in the Champcar series it the same but from 1999 to 2001, I have found out that the Lola chassic numbers of 2000 was the B2K/00 and 2001 is the B1/00. Reynard ?? and same for Swift. Other than that the site has a truck load of Champcar racing info. :up: :up: :stoned: Great find Don. :up: :smoking:

#13 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 September 2001 - 13:12

Not sure which Amazon you checked! However, Riggs is given as a co-author on my copy; probably just different bibliographers. As I said, it's a "promotional" book, which accounts for the big price differences quoted above. Just shop around till you find the cheapest one: looks like Waldenbooks might be your best bet!

For each year there is a minimum of a double-page spread, with a tabulated result giving all starters and finishing position. Cars, team owners, engines as explained above. Plus a brief report on the build-up to the races and reports on the race itself. As Pikachu and Rob have said, it is excellent value.

#14 Don Capps

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Posted 20 September 2001 - 13:27

The "T1F" and "T1G" and "T2G" designations were used by contemporary sources; the June 1966 issue of Road & Track uses these terms, which was out before the cars actually appeared on the track. However, I think that the designations were those used by Len Terry since later I recall the cars being referred to as the Mk. 1 and Mk. 2 by either Gurney or someone else on the team later on, perhaps 1967 or early 1968. The first F/SCCA Formula A car and the 1968 Indy car were the Mk. 3 and Mk. 4 (or vice versa -- I doing this from my increasingly feeble memory....) and, as mentioned, the 1969 F/A car was the Mk. 5.

Allen accurately describes the situation with the Indy chassis roulette game. Unlike the European approach to such things, the Americans were quite pragmatic about things and if it worked, all the better since individual chassis could be used for years and years, some of the dirt cars being campaigned literally for decades. And there are KK midgets from 1946 and 1947 still capable of running competively.

Naturally, the "George Washington's Hammer Algorithm" applies, but not until recent years did a small corps of dedicated Champ Car historians unearth and collaborate, collate, and circulate this information.

In the early 1980's, this subject was basically a series of blank page with some pages mixed in with something written on them. I recall John Printz being one of those doing much to get the effort underway and producing results. I certainly found it a daunting task; by comparison, the Maserati 250F work was easy.... :lol:

Perhaps Karl or others on the Racing History can speak on a more informed basis than I can about much of this. What many fail to grasp in looking for just results is that the story behind each car is often an adventure in and of itself. And, we must thank Carl Hungness for his great annuals and the foresight to begin recording the chassis numbers for the starters at Indy for many years -- only to be kicked square in the butt by the Speedway. But, that is another story....