21 replies to this topic

[FEV]

In France the FFSA used to do National Championships based on the results of french drivers in international races (F1, F2, Endurance). For example in 1974 Patrick Depailler was "Champion de France de Formule 1" with 319 points in front of Beltoise (234) and Jarier (144). I never found out what the scoring system was (I guess there must have been some coefficients) and I don't think it is still "run" today. The last Champion de France de F1 I remember reading about was Prost in 1989.
I've always wondered if this was in use in other countries. The BRDC Gold Star must have been something like that but, if I remember well, it included in one "championship" every international races (GP & Sportcars). What was exactly the scoring system of this Gold Star ? Was it only open to british (and Commonwealth) drivers ? Is it still awarded today ?

[Marcor]

I've seen some Gold Star results. It was indeed only for UK and the Commonwealth. Moss nearly won all the Gold Star in the 50's, sharing once with Mike Hawthorn. He was beaten by Jack Brabham in 1959. In 1962 he was on the lead when he crashed at Goodwood...

I know the score system of the French championship for the 40's period but I don't have the list of the races included in the championship. French champions included Sommer (46), Chaboud (47), Giraud-Cabantous (48), Rosier (49, 50, 51) ...

The Italian rules seems to be easier. In the 30's the best Italian classified in each round of the championship received one point. The champion must have the more points. In 1932 Tazio won 5 of the 7 events included in the championship. No problem he was champion. In 1933 10 events counted for the championship: 7 "GP" and 3 Hillclimb events: Alessandria GP, Tripoli GP, Targa Florio, Coppa Ciano, Coppa Acerbo, Italian GP and Monza GP + Pontedecimo-Giovi, Suse-Mont Cenis and Stelvio hillclimb races.

2 drivers won twice: Nuvolari (Alessandria GP + Coppa Ciano) and Luigi Fagioli (Coppa Acerbo + Italian GP). They had 2 points.

6 other had 1 point:
Varzi won the Tripoli GP
Brivio won the Targa Florio
Trossi won Pontedecimo-Giovi
Borzacchini won Suse-Mont Cenis
Tadini won the Stelvio
Bonetto finished third and first Italian in the infamous Monza GP.

Fagioli and Nuvolari had each 2 points but the Italian GP was seen as the most important of the season, so Luigi Fagioli won the Italian championship...

In 1931, there were also ex-aequo but Campari, having won the Italian GP was declared champion...

[FEV]

Thanks for all the info Marc !
You say you know the scoring system for the french championship of the 40s. I'd love to know what it was !!
Do you know if the italian championship was attributed post-war ? Was there something equivalent in Belgium at the time ?

[dmj]

I think Italian magazine Autosprint still every year claims Italian champions in several motorsport categories, by pretty similar rules, but I don't know how official it is. F1 is included, of course.

[Racer.Demon]

The Italian title was indeed awarded post-war, and Alessandro Silva knows all about that. Over to you, Sandro!

Could we prepare a list of all these national championships?

[FEV]

Yeah it would be great to have a list of all these championships. Some could be funny : imagine Jean-Denis Deletraz "1995 Swiss Formula 1 Champion"
More seriously I think this championship had a real importance until at least the 50s and were very well followed by the public and hardly contested by the drivers.

[Rob29]

BRDC Gold Star
'Awarded annually the Gold Star is the most important of all awards being in effect the British drivers championship'
Races counting for world drivers championship & sports car championship;
1st,25pts,2nd 21pts,3rd,17pts,4th,14pts,5th,10pts,All finishers,7pts,fastest lap 7pts,
All other races run under International or National permit.;
Miles 25-50 50-100 100-150 150-200 200-300 3hrs/300+

1st 3 . 6 9 15 18 21
2nd 2 4 7 12 15 17
3rd 1 2 5 9 12 14
4th - 1 3 6 9 11
5th - - 2 4 6 7
Finishers - - 1 3 4 5
FL - - 2 4 6 7

[Milan Fistonic]

In the list of BRDC Gold Star winners in the book Pole Position there is this description of how it is awarded.

Awarded on a points system to BRDC members competing in International motor races, except where otherwise stated (for instance, a driver can win two Gold Stars - one for scoring the highest points and another for being World Champion)

Jim Clark won three Gold Stars in 1965, one for winning the world championship, one for the highest points score and another for winning the Indianapolis 500. Graham Hill also got one in 1965 for winning the Monaco GP three years in succession.

[Marcor]

You can read the French scoring system in the thread about the 1939 European Championship, post #160, here:

http://www.atlasf1.c...40&pagenumber=4

10 points for victory, 6 points for 2nd, 5 points for 3rd, 4 points for 4th, 3 points for 5th, 1 points for each other starter.

In 1939 events like La turbie (mountainclimb), Le Bol d'Or, Les 24 H du Mans counted for the French driver championship (and also Pau GP, ACF GP,...)

Here's the list of the Belgian driver champion:
1938: Freddy Thélusson
1949: Emile Cornet
1950-51-52-53*: John Claes
1954: André Pilette
1955: Paul Frère
1956-57-58-59-60-61: Olivier Gendebien
1962-63-65: Willy Mairesse
1964: Lucien Bianchi
1966: not awarded
1967-68-69-70-71-72-73-74-76-77-79-82: Jacky Ickx
1975: Teddy Pilette
1978: Gilbert Stapelaere
1980-81-83-84-85-87-88-89-90: Thierry Boutsen
1986: Patrick Snijers
1991: Bertrand Gachot
1992: Grégoire de Mévius
1993-94: Bruno Thiry
1995: Marc Goossens
...

The list is from "100 ans de Sport Automobile Belge" Jean-Paul Deslsaux. I'm read elsewhere that the title won't be awarded in 1953 as it was so difficult to choose between Frère and Claes, as it was impossible to compare the results of the two drivers.

For 1965: I've got the rules: the driver must be licensed by the Royal Automobile Club de Belgique (RACB). The events must be run in circuit with a minimum length of 200 km. Only the overall placing and the six best results counted.

So Willy Mairesse won with 32 points ahead of Lucien Bianchi (12 points).

Willly gained 8 points for The 24 H of Le Mans (3rd), 16 points for The 500 km of Spa (victory) and 8 points for the 12 H of Reims (3rd).

Lucien gave 12 points for his victory in the 500 km of Nurburgring.

As you see, a title of Belgian F1 champion never existed...

Freddy Thélusson who was the first in Belgium to pass the wall of 200 km/h in 1932 had to be the first Belgian Champion but the RACB decided not to award the title this year. The press was disappointed...

[FEV]

Marcor, Milan, Rob : thanks a lot, that is info I've been looking for since a long time !

Marcor,
No belgian title awarded in 1966 - do you know why ?

[Marcor]

About 1966, I will check it soon.

[alessandro silva]

I posted the list of French and Italian overall champions in some thread a few months ago.
It should be added:
1938 Dreyfus
(French of course)

[FEV]

Thanks Alessandro I found it. As for 1966 in Belgium you mention "not awarded" for the 1955 french championship. Was it due to the le Mans disaster and the cancellation of a lot of french events that followed it ?

[Marcor]

the French champion list is in this thread that I've revived: http://www.atlasf1.c...4020#post554020

[Marcor]

Here's the results of the 1968 F1 and F2 French championship:
1- Jean-Pierre Beltoise: 66.9 points
2- Henri Pescarolo: 57.1 points
3- Johnny Servoz-Gavin: 13.5 points
4- Eric Offenstadt: 4.2 points
5- Guy Ligier: 2.4 points
6- Jean-Pierre Jaussaud: 1.4 points

source: Moteurs #71, January - February 1969.


Only (as Frenchmen) Beltoise, Pescarolo and Servoz-Gavin took part in F1 races that season, except poor Jo Schlesser (GP de France, Rouen where he had his fatal crash with the Honda).

[alessandro silva]

May I have the list of the BRDC Gold Star winners since its inception until 1951?

I vaguely remember Parnell 47/48. Bira four times (or three?) 35/38 or (or 36/38?)

[BRG]

Originally posted by Marcor
Here's the list of the Belgian driver champion:1978: Gilbert Stapelaere
1986: Patrick Snijers
1992: Grégoire de Mévius
1993-94: Bruno Thiry

Harking back to Marcor's post of 30 Sept 2001, I note that these are all top Belgian rally drivers. Or did they all do some racing as well?

[David McKinney]

BRDC Gold Star winners:
1929-39 - for races at Brooklands:
1929: Sammy Davis
1930: Sammy Davis
1931: Brian Lewis and Norman Black
1932: Ronnie Horton and Earl Howe
1933: Eddie Hall and Earl Howe
1934: Freddie Dixon, Hon Brian Lewis, Charlie Dodson
1935: John Cobb, Oliver Bertram, Tim Rose-Richards, Earl Howe, Freddie Dixon
1936: Bill Pacey, B Bira
1937: John Cobb, B Bira
1938: Oliver Bertram, B Bira
1939: Ian Connell, Johnny Wakefield
1947-51 - for international races:
1947: Reg Parnell
1948: Reg Parnell
1949: Peter Whitehead
1950: Stirling Moss
1951: Stirling Moss
Numerous other Gold Stars were presented, eg for Seaman for winning the 1938 German GP and Bob Gerard for his successes in 1947, 1948 and 1949 (presented 1949), and numerous others for record-breaking

[alessandro silva]

Thank you, David

[FEV]

Thanks for the great additions David

[William Hunt]

Originally posted by BRG
Harking back to Marcor's post of 30 Sept 2001, I note that these are all top Belgian rally drivers. Or did they all do some racing as well?

Indeed they are rally drivers. Apart from a touring car race here of there (like the 24hrs of Spa-Francorschamps) they didn't appear much on circuits but rally drivers coul also win the title.

I'm sure that its still is awarded every year. But I don't know who won it since '96. I believe Bas Leinders won it last year.

I do remember Johnny Claes takin' the national title a lot of times in the '50s. it's very odd that Paul Frère only won it once though.

[Marcor]

The recordman of Belgian National title is without surprise Jacky Ickx. But I remember I was surprised (I was 12 year old) when - in 1975 - he was not awarded ! He have won Le MANS and fininshed second of the Spanish GP. Teddy Pilette won the Belgian title because he was F5000 European champion. In 1975 he was not very known and popular in Belgian (except by the motorsport specialists). Don't remember Belgian TV ever spoke in 1975 about F5000: only counted F1, races at Spa (24 Hours) and Belgian touring cars championship, and maybe also Le Mans.