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Where are they now? (the original thread)


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#101 kabouter

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Posted 06 March 2002 - 23:53

Stéphane Sarrazin is doing the odd rally lately. And he's doing it well. Last December he won the Rallye du Var, counting for the French and European Championships. Doesn't seem he's planning a career move in that direction though.

Good luck with finding more info for your list.

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#102 Barry Lake

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 07:02

Richie

Thanks for the continuing flow of information. I hope you keep on posting new information here. It is difficult to sift through a whole encyclopaedia of names every so often to see if something has changed since one last looked.

How sure are you of your Troy Ruttman information? I have the following from a US source (reliability not known). Note different date, as well as location.

1997.05.17 Sat Lake Havasu City Arizona USA Troy Ruttman died, aged 67. He was winner of the 1952 Indianapolis 500.

#103 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 18:16

Thanks Geza & Kabouter - Sarrazin is of course, also now the Toyota F1 test driver.
Well the good news for people who have 100 posts on a page (like me) settings means it will be quicker now to access the pages. For deaths I may ocassionally put them on a separate thread but death places etc. maybe elsewhere.

It's my ultra reliable US social security source again for all three:

It also says 19th May. The original source for the 19th was Autocourse & i have no doubt at all that is the date he died.
As for the place of death, well, Troy died of cancer. I always believed this to be at his home, which was the one in Florida, but I am always willing to accomodate all possibilities. As the date is worng on the original source, I am initially sceptical but I will pursue it further to see if we can get some sort of conclusion.
Thanks Barry for your continued interest! :)

#104 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 18:59

Well, it was quick! This cements it - it was the 19th but it was in Arizona. Apologies for the wrong place, I'd presumed he died at home.

http://www.shults.co...save2/0405.html

#105 Prostfan

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 19:37

Thanks Richie for your indefatigable and accurate work.

But I have another question: the Rupert Keegan Birthday Mystery!

Some say 26th Feb (like you); others say 28th Feb. Can you enlighten this?

#106 FEV

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 20:49

Richie thanks for the updates to your very unique work :up: :up:
Re Sarrazin, I think it's the young kartman Arnaud who is Toyota's test driver (they've signed him for 72 years contract or something two years ago).

#107 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 21:29

Frank, Sarrazin was signed recently, more as a reserve as Ryan Briscoe is going to be in F3000. But I think Arnaud was one of the guys they gave a long-term contract too as well.
Now Rupert Keegan...
Before I started this, I had FOUR sources (all reputable books) say it was the 26th Feb. Looking on the 'net, f1-free online & its sister site, cart-free online, agree as does the celebrity motor-racing birth certificates site.

The F1 database & a CART drivers site & Forix say the 28th

I believe it's the 26th & the 28th is an typing error. F1db tend to copy what's on other sites mostly, anyway. I can't see where the 28th is coming from, but maybe others know differently from me. So, unless proved completely wrong like Ruttmann, I plump for 26th.

#108 FEV

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 22:00

Sorry about that Richie, I had somehow missed the info :blush: Well, that's great news, Stéphane is a very competent driver and a nice guy.

#109 Barry Lake

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 05:35

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Well the good news for people who have 100 posts on a page (like me) settings means it will be quicker now to access the pages. )


So, Richie, how do we get to have 100 posts per page?

#110 Barry Lake

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 06:31

Another question Richie might be able to answer.

I just noticed I have two different dates and two different spellings of the birth place for Clemente Biondetti.

Can you (or anyone else) provide the correct details?

#111 Prostfan

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 09:37

Biondetti was born in Sardinia where they speak a language which is said to be different from Italian (Sardinian). Maybe that's the reason why some say Budduro and others Budduso.
BTW the name Budduro can't be found by Google except for a few Biondetti-linked pages, whereas Budduso is a town in northern Sardinia:
http://sardinia.net/.../ss/budduso.htm

#112 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 08 March 2002 - 20:55

Still keeping me busy, Barry!

100 Posts a page= User CP at top of page & then go to default posts per thread & click on show 100 posts a page. If for convience, you wish to contract all the previous posts so you don't have to keep re-reading ones you've read then while you're there click on contract posts already read, update & bingo!

Now Biondetti, I think the most plausible explanation for the spelling has been given by Prostfan.
As for the birthdate, I have the 18th August 1898. As does every site bar below:

Forix has the 18th October (I believe this is the discrepancy you meant?), so ergo www.f1db.com

All the sources I have point toward August so, again, if anyone can prove any real reason why Forix has it right, I'm likely to stick with the date. I was going to suggest the old Italian "date problem" of when they were born & when they were registerd - for example Enzo Ferrari, but it would have taken serious weather (and Sardinia in August too!) to stop Clemente's dad trekking out for over 3 months!!!

#113 Barry Lake

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Posted 09 March 2002 - 05:06

Richie

Thanks, yet again.

Would you believe I also had a date from somewhere, 18 June?

I will settle for 18 August and Budduso, until proven otherwise.

#114 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 12 March 2002 - 22:21

Right: Lucienbonnet's birthdate is on the other thread:
Bill Moss born 4 September 1933, Luton, Bedfordshire (where I live now! May do some local investigating...)
Tony Settember's birthdate is now confirmed as being the 10th July 1926 & not the date given previously. As far as a birthplace, it still looks like Southern California is the best I can surmise.
J.M.Bordeu b. 28 Jan 1934, Balcarce.

Dunno whether I ever included it before, but Michael Bleekemolen was born in Amsterdam.

For those interested in where they are now:
Well, Jack Lewis was covered in Doug Nye's thread. Ricardo Zonta is on the verge of a Dallara Nissan drive. Bob Unser is retired totally & Guglemin retired from driving. Thanks again, Geza, for the Oppitzhauser info - otherwise there hasn't been too much off the top of my head. If I remember any significant ones, I'll post them at a later juncture.
:)

#115 Geza Sury

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 06:56

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Thanks again, Geza, for the Oppitzhauser info

I appriciate the job highly you have done Richard, I'm glad to add something to it!

#116 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 18:11

Suprised to see the thread being given a sticky. Thanks to whoever's idea that was although you'll know what'll happen now - there'll be nothing to add for a few months! :)

#117 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 19:19

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
there'll be nothing to add for a few months! :)


Maybe I should check my hotmail first before saying that :blush: - what has actually happened is that a man called Jean Pierre Lajaurrig :clap: (I may've spelt that wrong) has discovered loads of THE most obscure drivers ever birthdates! Perhaps the most exciting thing to happen to researchers like me in aeons :drunk: so (and thanks to Joao-Paulo again for telling me) :
the information listed below is as much as is known thus far:

John Barber (GB) : b. 29th July 1929. Is still believed to be alive.
Asdrubal Bayardo (URU) b. 26 December 1922. ISBTBA.
Alain de Changy (B) b. 5 February 1922. Died 1994.
Ludwig Fischer (D) b. 17 December 1915. ISBTBA.
Helmut Glockler (D) b. 13 January 1909. Died 1993.
Oscar Gonzalez (URU) b. 10 November 1923. Died 24 February 1999
Ernesto Prinoth (I) b. 15 April 1923, Ortisei, Bolzano d. December 1980
Luigi Taramazzo (I) b. 5 May 1932. ISTBTBA.

This leaves just Harry Merkel & Gunther Seiffert's birthdates unknown of those who started a practice session.

As I have this weekend off, I will do a lot more researching with the Indianapolis drivers - qualifiers & non-qualifiers to see if I can discover death places, dates etc. that are not already on general listing.

#118 David McKinney

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 21:20

A couple of minor points on your last post, Richie
1) the first Uruguyan gentleman's surname was Fontes Bayardo
2) Glockler was surely Glöckler, and I'm sure his first name, Helm, was all there was: it was not an abbreviation for the more common Helmut (or even Helmuth). I'm sure fines or some other knowledgeable person can confirm or deny.

#119 fines

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 21:25

As far as I know, it's really just Helm! A bit unusual for sure, as it means "Helmet"... :cool:

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#120 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 21:58

David, are you sure re. Bayardo? I am led to believe that Asdrubayal is his first name, Fontes his second forename, like Jose Antonio Samaranch or Mario Araujo de Cabral.
Glockler is as you put it but my keyboard is not able do to the things above for Glockler & Hakkinen etc.
I believe Helmut is his first name & Helm is his preferred moniker. But pfff... who knows? :)

#121 fines

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 22:23

Fontes is certainly a family name, as the ending "-es" in Portuguese (or "-ez" in Spanish) means "son of..."! :)

e.g. González = son of Gonzalo
Rodríguez = son of Rodrigo
Jenkinson = son of Richie :drunk: :lol:

#122 David McKinney

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 22:23

97.3% sure. Asdrubal was his first name, Fontes Bayardo his surname. As our Spanish-speaking colleagues will tell us, it is usual for a person to use his mother's surname as well as his father's. Like Francisco Godia Sales and scores of others I'm too tired to think of at the moment. AFB was almost always referred to as "Fontes" in South American reports, and occasionally as Fontes Bayardo, but Bayardo on its own seems to have been invented for his unsuccessful F1 attempts in Europe in 1959

#123 fines

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Posted 13 March 2002 - 22:30

And btw, Araujo is also a surname. unless I'm VERY MUCH MURRAY WALKER...

#124 David McKinney

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 07:05

I avoided bringing Portuguese surnames into the discussion as it is an added complication.
I believe that when people in Spanish-speaking countries have two surnames, the first is the proper one, whereas in Portuguese it's the other way around. Thus:
Fontes Bayardo
Godia Sales
Schwelm Cruz
etc
but:
de Araujo Cabral
de Silva Ramos
Nogueiro Pinto
etc

#125 Prostfan

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 09:14

I don't know anything about Portuguese names, but what about Senna da Silva and Piquet Soutomaior?

#126 David McKinney

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 17:12

See the thread above yours

#127 BRG

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 17:36

I think Prostfan is asking why it wasn't Ayrton da Silva and Nelson Soutomaior that won all those WDCs rather than Senna and Piquet.

In both cases, IIRC it was a conscious decision to adopt the other name. In the case of Senna, perhaps because it was a less common name and easier for non-Brazilians to spell and pronounce? As for Piquet, I remember reading that he used that name because his family weren't very keen on him racing.

#128 David McKinney

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 19:32

It's all very confusing for those of us who were not raised in Spanish- or Portuguese-speaking countries.
To put it another way, using the examples above, if you were doing an alphabetical list, the gents mentioned would be filed according to the name I put in bold type. Likewise if you were mentioning someone for a second time, just the bold name would do.
So, with Portuguese names, it is Cabral, Ramos and Pinto. Yes, and Senna and Piquet.
When Nelson started racing in England the story was, as BRG says, that he had changed his name to avoid family discouragement. This never rang true with me, as I thought his mother would probably have been able to work out a connection between Nelson Piquet Soutomaior and Nelson Piquet :) Or even Nelson Picket, which I think is a name he used in Brazil. I suspect the real story is that he used the name Nelson Piquet because that was accepted Portuguese/Brazilian practice.
And, before anyone jumps down my throat, I wouldn't be surprised if the name Ayrton da Silva was simply a mistake by English teams who didn't know any better.
And apologies to prostfan if I misunderstood his question

#129 Prostfan

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 20:49

That wat i was referring to. My question was a little bit misunderstanding. Never mind, David ;)

#130 Barry Lake

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Posted 16 March 2002 - 12:52

Richie

Could you do me a favour please?

Would you just double check that the following is correct?

Luigi Taramazzo (I) b. 5 May 1932. ISTBTBA.

I have seen 15 May somewhere.

Sorry, but I just like to make sure...

#131 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 16 March 2002 - 13:04

it is the 5th, Barry, I'm pretty darn sure.

The reason you may've seen 15th is what some people do, if they know the month they're born in will go either the 1st of the month or the middle of the month, which is totally confusing & helps no-one. Thats my 2 cents anyway.

#132 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 16 March 2002 - 15:19

As promised, what I could find on Indy guys on my two US databases: 1 for the living & 1 for the dead! If you have any more info Frank on middle names or intials, I can do even better but anyway:

Bob CLEBERG b. 28th May 1929
Johnny FEDRICKS b. 11th April 1925 d. 26 February 2001, Oakland, Missouri
LeRoy WARRINER b. 1st March 1919

Death places of qualifiers: (some of these may be different from what others have, if that's the case I'll research a compromise)

Walt Ader d. Hunterdon, New Jersey
Freddie Agabashian d. Contra Costa, California
Richard "Red" Amick d. Crystal River, Citrus, Florida
Frank Armi d. Watsonville, Santa Cruz, California
Duane Carter d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Ray Crawford d. Los Angeles, California
Len Duncan d. Montgomery, Pennslyvania
Myron Fohr d. Milwaukee, WI
Carl Forberg d. Brownsburg, Hendricks, Indiana
Cliff Griffith d. Rochester, Fulton, Indiana
Jackie Holmes d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Bill Homeier d. Johnson City, Blanco, Texas
Jimmy Jackson d. Riverside, California

Danny Kladis b. 10 Feb 1917 STILL ALIVE - checking this one - anyone have Kladis' birthdate as the 15th July 1917? If so.. I'll update it & explain why....

Andy Linden d. Los Angeles, California
Johnny Mantz d. Nye, Nevada
Duke Nalon d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Cal Niday d. Ventura, California
Chuck Stevenson d. Benson, Cochise, Arizona
Bud Tingelstad d. Indianpolis, Indiana
Johnnie Tolan d. Los Angeles, California
Chuck Weyant b. 3 Apr 1923 STILL ALIVE - like Kladis this one - any takers for the 6th June 1923? Again, I'll put down why.

Right that's it. Now to have a social life again :)

#133 Jim Thurman

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Posted 19 March 2002 - 07:33

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
As promised, what I could find on Indy guys on my two US databases: 1 for the living & 1 for the dead! If you have any more info Frank on middle names or intials, I can do even better but anyway:

Death places of qualifiers: (some of these may be different from what others have, if that's the case I'll research a compromise)

Walt Ader d. Hunterdon, New Jersey
Freddie Agabashian d. Contra Costa, California
Richard "Red" Amick d. Crystal River, Citrus, Florida
Frank Armi d. Watsonville, Santa Cruz, California
Duane Carter d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Ray Crawford d. Los Angeles, California
Len Duncan d. Montgomery, Pennslyvania
Myron Fohr d. Milwaukee, WI
Carl Forberg d. Brownsburg, Hendricks, Indiana
Cliff Griffith d. Rochester, Fulton, Indiana
Jackie Holmes d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Bill Homeier d. Johnson City, Blanco, Texas
Jimmy Jackson d. Riverside, California

Danny Kladis b. 10 Feb 1917 STILL ALIVE - checking this one - anyone have Kladis' birthdate as the 15th July 1917? If so.. I'll update it & explain why....

Andy Linden d. Los Angeles, California
Johnny Mantz d. Nye, Nevada
Duke Nalon d. Indianapolis, Indiana
Cal Niday d. Ventura, California
Chuck Stevenson d. Benson, Cochise, Arizona
Bud Tingelstad d. Indianpolis, Indiana
Johnnie Tolan d. Los Angeles, California
Chuck Weyant b. 3 Apr 1923 STILL ALIVE - like Kladis this one - any takers for the 6th June 1923? Again, I'll put down why.

Right that's it. Now to have a social life again :)


I know the feeling Richie, I'm loaded with projects thanks to this and another racing history forum :D

So, everyone...be patient, I'll get to them as soon as I can.

I can add some info on what some of these fellows mentioned in various posts did after retirement (and sadly, up till their death for a few :cry: )

Cal Niday was pronounced dead at Antelope Valley Hospital in Lancaster, California. He had been thrown from his vintage open wheeler on the 3/8 mile dirt oval at Willow Springs Raceway in Rosamond, California (about 20 miles from Lancaster) and suffered heart attacks while being transported to hospital via ambulance.

Johnny Mantz died near Ojai, California when his pick-up truck went off the road and ran into either a tree or telephone pole. Apparently he fell asleep at the wheel while returning to his home in Ojai after finishing his duties as promoter of a Speedway Motorcycle race at the Ventura (CA) Fairgrounds.

Fred Agabashian...Contra Costa is the county. IIRC, he was residing in Alamo, California, which is in Contra Costa County. I lived in that county for several years.

I'll post the other info shortly.

Great job Richie :up:


Jim Thurman

#134 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 19 March 2002 - 18:12

Thanks Jim. I knew Mantz was killed, but I thought, erronously, that he was killed near his home.
So, cheers for straightening that out...
Lancaster... that's where Judy Garland lived...
:up:

#135 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 01:54

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Heres what I found: (via social security records - so should be right, see what you think)

Barzda b. 22/5/1915 d. 11/10/1993, Somerset, New Jersey
Bonadies b. 30/3/1910 d. Mar 1983, Hartford, CT (dunno what state this is!?)
Carter b. 10/3/1923 d. 2/4/1992
Clemons b. 20/3/1919 d. May 1985
Easton b. 12/12/1913 d. Dec 1974, Sanyamon, Illinois
Furci b. 12/12/1916 d. 9/7/1998 - Suffolk, New York
Heath b. 3/1/1918 d. Mar 1981, Northridge, Los Angeles
Hauser d. 3 Dec 1996, Volusia, Florida
Lynch d. 6/5/1997, Los Angeles
Oakes b. 26/7/1911 d. June 1985, Franklin, New York
Reid b. 11/8/1923 d. Dec 1989
Ebb Rose has the same birthdate as one Mauri Rose! - is there any chance that they are the one & same person??
Selser b. 11/4/1920 d. 21/1/1994, Madeira, California
Sostilio b. 3/1/1915 d. 9/7/2000

Well, I did me best - but that's all I can find thus far!


Good job. fines and FEV fine tuned this, but I'll corroborate that Reid died in a Sprint Car crash at Dayton Speedway, Dayton, Ohio in 1952.

Heath was born in Saskatchewan, Canada and, correct, he died in Northridge in Los Angeles County (the famous "one armed driver").

Bonadies died in a Midget crash in 1964. I'll get back to you on the date. IIRC, it was Williams Grove Speedway.

And, Danny Oakes was alive last I heard. The one you list isn't the same as the Midget racer, attempted Indy qualifier. Danny Oakes was seen on video reminiscing about Gilmore Stadium in a TV special done by the Los Angeles PBS station in the mid-90's (!...that's why it's not the same guy, that and the location of NY).

Again, great job of digging up this info Richie, and again fines and FEV impress me with their knowledge of U.S. Champ Car racing :up:

Should be one more reply with some info I know and a date or two.


Jim Thurman

#136 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 04:28

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
1950-1960 Formula 1 Championship Indianapolis 500 Drivers:

Johnny Boyd b. 19 Aug 1926 STILL ALIVE
Don Edmunds b. 23 Sep 1930 STILL ALIVE
Mack Hellings b. 14 Sep 1915 d. 11 Nov 1951
Bayliss Levrett b. 14 Feb 1913 STILL ALIVE - OLDEST
Jack Turner b. 12 Feb 1920 d. 19 May 1963
Wayne Weiler b. 9 Dec 1934 STILL ALIVE


Some info here (guess it will take one more post for the Non-qualifiers)...

Johnny Boyd, IIRC, is still in the Fresno, California area. He shows up at oldtimer and vintage meets.

Don Edmunds raced through 1967 or so (I saw him several times as a kid), then retired to become a Midget chassis builder of some note. He also purchased and restored several vintage Midgets. I have no idea what he's up to now.

Mack Hellings died in a plane crash.

Bayliss Leverett is in poor health in a nursing home in Reno, Nevada. Apparently, physically he is well, but sadly he is in a rather advanced case of Alzheimer's.

Jack Turner did NOT die in 1963. He is alive and back home in the Seattle area (as a matter of fact, I could probably get you in contact with someone who could get you in contact with him!). There was an interview with him in Open Wheel magazine in the early 90's.

Wayne Weiler was badly injured in a 1961 Sprint Car flip, but returned to racing after a long recovery and raced sporadically in the late 60's. Following another retirement, he returned when a new Midget group was formed in Arizona, winning 18 features before finally retiring as a driver at age 40. He then became a car owner. Also bought some land and was faming cotton. This takes you into the mid-80's. Again, I have no idea what he's been up to lately, but sure I could find out.

Hope those help.

Jim Thurman

#137 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 05:54

Originally posted by FEV

All are americans unless stated.

Tony BONADIES
Bob GREGG (1950 Kurtis 2000-Offy)
Chuck HULSE b. 3-10-1927 (1960 Kuzma-Offy & Kurtis -Offy)
Ralph LIGUORI (1959 Maserati & Kurtis 500G-Offy)
Frank LUPTOW (1952 Ewing-Offy)
Johnny MAURO b. 25-10-1911 (1950 ALFA-Romeo / 1952 Ferrari)
Johnny MOOREHOUSE (1959 Kurtis 500G-Offy)
Frank MUNDY (1954 Shroeder-Offy)
Bud ROSE (1950 Bromme-Offy)
Ebb ROSE b. 26-05-1906 (1960 Moore-Offy)
Bud SENNETT (1951 Maserati)


Tony Bonadies, listed as dying in a crash during an ARDC Midget race at Williams Grove, Pennsylvania on July 5, 1964.

Bob Gregg, still living.

Chuck Hulse, turned up at Irwindale (California) Speedway last year.

Ralph Ligouri was still an active driver through at least 1999 (!!!). Was racing Midgets at the Indianapolis Speedrome. His goal was to race into 2000, but I don't know that he made it.

Frank Luptow died in a Stock Car flip at Lakewood Speedway, Atlanta, Georgia on September 21, 1952. Richie, I'll give you a hint...try searching the records using LUEPTOW ;)

Johnny Moorhouse (no extra "e"), b. Feb. 3, 1922, d. Dec. 30, 1999. Not much of a Champ Car career, very good Midget racer with 11 USAC Midget wins. Retired from driving around 1969. Ran gas station in Julian, California (in the mountains about 50 miles East of San Diego) and was very active with vintage open wheel group (on a personal note: when I was a teenager, the family made a couple of trips to Julian, and stopped at that gas station...without me being aware that the guy at the station was Johnny Moorhouse. The first Midget race I saw as a kid, Johnny Moorhouse drove in!).

Frank Mundy. Still living. Real name something like Francisco Menendez. Worked for a CART team in the 1980's.

As fines pointed out, Bud Rose's real name was Harry Eisele. A bit of trivia on him, he was "stand in" for Clark Gable in the movie "To Please A Lady". After a lengthy career, retired after winning a Sprint Car race on the Riverside International Raceway road course in 1958. I pick him out as Harry E. Eisele, d. Dec. 1991.

Ebb Rose. That can't be the correct DOB for "Ebb". I don't have much on him, and he wasn't a young man at Indy in the early 60's, but he wasn't 56 years old (!). IIRC, his first name was Jesse. All I can give to help out.

Bud Sennett, living in Hawaii last I heard (which wasn't long ago).

Hope those help,

Great thread.

Jim Thurman

#138 fines

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 16:06

The mention of Don Edmunds reminds me of the "Wolverine" in another thread, can't remember which. I never gave the answer, but it was Edmunds who built the car in 1970, and it was *no* success. No as in nil, nada, zero, überhaupt nicht!;) Edmunds later also designed/built one or two Lightnings for Lindsay Hopkins. He was born in Santa Ana, Ca., the Dan Gurney AAR home!

And Ralphie "The Racer" Liguori, from what I've heard, DID indeed race in 2000 and won some minor race, becoming probably the only person in Racing History to have won races in seven (seven!) different decades!!! :up:

#139 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 18:17

Thanks Jim, that's absoleuty superb.

The only source that said Jack Turner was dead (in the born & died column) was none other than Autosport... Their research clearly has gone to pot...

This is terrific, not only correcting my educated guesses but giving us a where they are now for people of whom I've regrettably known very little.

I'll give some of the guys another try to see if I can find anything. It's about time some of these fellows got their moment in print...

:) :up: :up:

Ooh, I think I never posted it but ages ago, Frank (FEV) pm'd me to tell me that Peter Ashdown is still living in Danbury, where amongst, other things, he runs his "Candy Apple Cars" Concern. I'll try & find the link he gave me - if all goes well, I've a few exciting plans linked up but I'm not getting too excited yet, as I know what happens to most of my "well-intentioned" plans!

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#140 David McKinney

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 19:16

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
The only source that said Jack Turner was dead (in the born & died column) was none other than Autosport... Their research clearly has gone to pot...

Were they perhaps referring to Jack (British constructor) Turner rather than Jack (US driver) Turner?

#141 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 19:32

That's what I thought - but the date of birth was the same (as the driver) so I just accepted it... Odd... (Autosport, not me! :) )

#142 FEV

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 20:02

Many thanks Jim for the wonderful additions :up: :up:
I had continued gathering info here and there on all this gentlemen, but you know how it goes... so many interesting projects to work on, plus we still have to earn a living ! I'll post an update as soon as possible... Is it OK Richie if I post the complete list of these drivers with (what we know of) their full names, DOB/DOD, short racing achievements ?
Frank

#143 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 20 March 2002 - 22:21

Of course it is okay Frank. :up:

It's amazing what we've found out in all areas since this thread has been up, when you really think about it. Even got a mention in *gasp* Readers Comments - fame at last! :lol:

#144 Prostfan

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 08:44

I really admire your work.

But I have another question: is there a similar thread concering former managers and designers? Questions like: What is Teddy Mayer now doing? Is Didier Calmels still in prison? and others would also be very interesting?

#145 FEV

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 16:54

OK here we go for the updated list ! I'll do this in separate posts to keep it readable !

Before anything I have to thank more than a few people for their great help on this. Of course, Richie, Michael "Fines" Ferner, Jim Thurman, Richard "Vitesse2" Armstrong and all of you here at TNF. Also Larry Wright and Ed Watson at the "Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame" from which I recieved a tremendous help and feedback - half the data here comes from them. The guys at TrackForum helped a lot too (hey ! Eagle, 3-wide, KnockOff, SJFast, SZautke, aXe, and anyone I forgot). Finally the RacingHistory e-group (of which I can only say it is an incredible source of knowledge on American Racing History - it is a daily amazement to read the quality and in-depth of the topics) helped a lot too.
Sorry for the length of this but I could not decently have gone further without these thanks !

For those not too familiar with the list, it is made of drivers who did not qualify for the Indy 500 between 1950 and 1960, the years the race was a round of the World Drivers Championship. These drivers have, afaIk, never been included in any GP drivers list which is quite unfair since most of them were great drivers in their own right, at least as good as Jean-Claude Rudaz or Ricardo Londono-Bridge :) . This list is by no way exhaustive and I am sure many drivers are missing - looking forward to any additions and corrections. Main focus was to try to find their DOB/DOD and places of birth and death, but I took the liberty to add a few racing achievements when possible. I did not add the ChampCar stats to the lot, but many of them had a decent National Championship career, wether it is before, during or after the 1950-60 era.


Charles van Acker was born 14/03/1912 in Belgium. Well documented thanks to Marcor and the guys at TrackForum, see http://www.trackforu...ic&f=6&t=000669 But did he died in 1982 ?

Emil Andres was born 22/02/1911 (one source 22/07/1911) in Chicago, Illinois. Died 20/07/1999 presumably in the Chicago area. Raced at Indy from 1936 to 1949 (4th in 1946). Member of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame since 1996.

Johnny Baldwin was born 30/03/1927 in Fresno, California. Died 19/05/2000 of a heart stroke in Sonora, Ca. One of the greatest Californian Midget drivers ever. BCRA (Bay Cities Racing Association) legend with 9 titles (five outdoor in 1952-53-54-55-61 and 4 indoor in 53-54-55-58). He won at least 150 features during his BCRA career, mainly for owners Jess Beene, Stan Brooks and John Pestana. Although most of his racing career was spent in Midgets, he also did well in Sprints, notably in northern California where he won more than 30 main events. USAC National Midget from 1956 to 1966 (33rd in 1957). 2 USAC National Midget feature wins. Retired after the 1966 season, but made a come back in the BCRA through the Vintage Division in 1989-90. Member of the Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame since 2000. Member of the BCRA Hall of Fame since 1985.

Emmett «Buzz» Barton was born 7/10/1916 in Chickasha, Oklahoma. Lived in Tampa, Florida. 1964 Dakota State Fair Speedway Sprint Car Champion. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1948 to 1958 (12th 1948). Member of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame since 2001. STILL ALIVE.

Joe Barzda was born 22/05/1915. Died 11/10/1993 in Somerset, New Jersey. Lived in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Badly injured in Van Johnson’s fatal accident on 19/07/1959 in Williams Grove. Probably quit driving following this crash. AAA National Midget in 1953 and 1954 (14th 1954). 3 AAA National Midget feature wins. Member of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame since 2001. 2 ARDC feature wins.
Onwer with brother Jim of the New Jersey-based “California Speed and Sport Shop” who fielded cars in various series including ChampCar and Endurance. One Jim Barzda is still running the company : Jim Barzda California Speed and Sport Shop 299 Jersey Ave New Brunswick NJ 08901 (732) 545-0311 (732) 545-0315 Jbarzda@aol.com Speed Equipment.

Tony Bonadies was born 30/03/1910 and died 5/07/1964 in a ARDC Midget race in Williams Grove, Pennsylvania. He broke a rear axle going into the first turn and flipped violently, ultimately being thrown out of the car. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1951 to 1961 (15th 1961). 2 AAA/USAC National Midget feature wins. As of 2001, he still ranks 9th in the ARDC all-time feature wins with 30. Was from the Bronx, New York.

Bill Boyd came from Los Angeles, California. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1952 to 1958 (17th in 1955). 2 AAA National Midget feature wins.

Mike Burch is one of our mystery men ! I did not fin anything about him anywhere except for is failed attempt to qualify at Indy in 1950 with a Maserati.

Marvin Burke came from Oakland, California. 1949 BCRA Midget Champion. Has one NASCAR Grand National (now Winston Cup) career win : a 250 mile race at his hometown 0.625 mile Oakland Stadium dirt track in 1961, driving a Mercury. Won the first post-WWII BCRA race at Vallejo Recreation Speedway. Member of the BCRA Hall of Fame since 1999 but was not present at the ceremony : “Unfortunately, '40s BCRA midget driving great Marvin Burke's whereabouts could not be determined and he was the only inductee that was not represented by himself or a family member”.

#146 FEV

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 17:07

Neal Carter was born 30/08/1923 in Wapakoneta, Ohio. AAA National Midget from 1948 to 1955 (3rd in 1948 and 1951). 6 AAA National Midget feature wins. 1950 and 1951 AAA Ohio-Michigan Midget Champion. Won several track championships at Toledo and Detroit. Member of the Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame since 1989. Member of the Michigan Motor Sport Hall of Fame since 1997. See http://www.mmshof.or...carter_neal.htm for a short bio. STILL ALIVE and living in Florida.

Bob Cleberg was from Tucson, Arizona. Won Anderson Speedway’s Little 500 in 1956. 94th of the 1960 USAC National Midget. Won the 1968 Western World Championships held at Manzanita Speedway, Phoenix.

Bud Clemons (often misspelled Clemens) was born 20/03/1919. Died ?/05/1985. Hometown listed as Riverside, California. USAC National Midget from 1956 to 1961 (26th in 1956). 1 USAC National Midget feature wins.

Hal Cole was born 12/11/1912. Died the day of his 58th birthday, 12/11/1970. Sadly remembered as the driver who hit with fatal consequences Rex Mays after the 1940 & 1941 National Champion was thrown out of his car during the 1949 Del Mar ChampCar race.

Russ Congdon was from Puyallup, Washington. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1953 to 1967 (6th in 1962). 4 USAC National Midget feature wins. No relation to Gary Congdon, killed in Terre Haute in 1967.

Bob Cortner died 19/05/1959 after crashing in turn 3 of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway during practice for the 500. Was from Readlands, California. 1957 BCRA Outdoor Midget Champion. USAC National Midget from 1959 to 1959 (46th in 1957).

Billy DeVore was born 12/09/1912. Died 12/08/1985. Famous pre-WWII driver, well documented elsewhere, but : places of birth and death ?

Lee Drollinger was from Springfield, Illinois. 58th 1960 USAC National Midget.

Teddy Duncan was from Beecher, Illinois. Great Midget driver from the 40s, who won many track championships in Illinois. 2nd 1949 AAA National Midget. 2 AAA National Midget feature wins. Won the 1947 “Night Before the 500” Midget race at Indianapolis’ 16th Street Speedway. Member of the Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame since 1994. Possibly STILL ALIVE.

Rex Easton was born 12/12/1913 in Springfield, Illinois. Died 21/12/1974 in Sanyamon, Illinois.
AAA/USAC National Midget from 1949 to 1961 (2nd in 1954-57-58). 32 AAA/USAC National Midget feature wins. 1948 Midget Car Owners & Drivers Association Champion. 1954 AAA Midwest Midget Champion. 1958 USAC Midwest Midget Champion. Member of the Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame since 1987. Biography published by former Midget/Big Car driver Crocky Wright.

Kenny Eaton was from Inglewood, California. AAA National Midget from 1948 to 1951 (4th in 1950).

Jack Ensley was better known for his Sportscar performances in the 50s American road racing scene, driving Jags, Allards and also some of Frank Kurtis’ Olds-powered Sportscars. I still failed to get a DOB.

More soon...

#147 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 March 2002 - 21:43

Originally posted by Prostfan
I really admire your work.

But I have another question: is there a similar thread concering former managers and designers? Questions like: What is Teddy Mayer now doing? Is Didier Calmels still in prison? and others would also be very interesting?


Maybe - it's an interesting idea. This thread has expanded to include not just F1 but Indianapolis drivers & I'm sure I can work on it in time. But I am still mega busy with my drivers right now so it's a project for the back-burner at the moment...

Thanks for asking though :) Frank :up: It's looking great so far!

#148 FEV

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 21:58

Milt Fankhouser was a regular ChampCar competitor from 1947 to 1950. Not much else found.

Johnny Fedricks was from Royal Oak, Michigan. Deceased. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1952 to 1957 (33rd in 1954). 2 AAA National Midget feature wins. Member of the Michigan Motor Sport Hall of Fame since 1999. See http://www.mmshof.or...dricks_john.htm
An SSDI search gave the following dates for a John E. Fedricks from Leonard, Oakland, Michigan : 11/04/1925 – 26/02/2001 : dates fit but far from a 100% guess of course.

Dick Frazier was from New Castle, Indiana. Midwest roadster driver who won one of the short-lived AAA Roadster Division championships. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1951 to 1960 (34th in 1951). 3 AAA National Midget feature wins. Story on him in the June 1995 issue of “Open Wheel” – if anyone has it… ! Possible link with road racing. Still alive “a few years ago”.

Andrew ‘Andy’ Furci was born 12/12/1916 in Brooklyn (NY). Died 9/07/1998 in Suffolk, NY. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1953 to 1958 (57th in 1954 and 1958). 2 ARDC feature wins.

Joe Giba came from the Denver, Colorado. Became a Midget and/or Sprint Car builder after retiring from driving. Very long AAA/USAC National Midget career : 13 times classified in the yearly standings between 1952 and 1969. Best placing was 15th in 1952.

Potsy Goacher came from Summitville, Indiana. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1948 to 1960 (9th in 1951). 10 AAA/USAC National Midget feature wins.

Bob Gregg came from Vancouver, Washington (just across the river from Portland, Oregon). 1959/60/62 Washington State Midget Champion. USAC National Midget in 1956/57 (31st in 1956). Was a great Midget driver on dirt but also raced on pavement with WRA (Washington Racing Association) and also the CAMRA (Canadian Modified Racing Association). STILL ALIVE. Father of Mike Gregg (8-time Rocky Mountain Midget Racing Association Champion between 1977 and 1987).

Peter Hahn : another mystery man… ! Tried different spellings in all my sources but came to nothing.

William E. ‘Red’ Hamilton was born 6/11/1921 in Decatur, Illinois. Died 23/11/1986.
1948 Saint Louis Auto Racing Association Midget Champion. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1951 to 1959 (65th in 1952). 1 AAA National Midget feature wins.

Allen Heath was born 3/01/1918 (one source 13/01/1918) in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. Died 6/03/1981 in Northridge near Los Angeles, California. Worth writing a book on him only !! See http://www.worthyofh...ges/homeset.htm
AAA/USAC National Midget from 1952 to 1965 (7th in 1952). 17 AAA/USAC National Midget feature wins. 1946 & 1947 Washington State Midget Champion. 1950 & 1958 United Racing Association Midget Champion. 1961 USAC Pacific Coast Midget Champion. Raced AAA Stocks in 1952 (Studebaker). Member of the Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame since 1991. Member of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame since 2000.

Al Herman was in my initial list but that was a mistake from my part. He of course had a well known ChampCar career, racing at Indy between 1955 and 1960 (7th in 1955).

Norm Houser was born 18/12/1915. Died 3/12/1996 in Volusia, Florida.

Chuck Hulse was born 3/10/1927. Lived in Downey, California. Raced at Indy from 1962 to 1967 (7th in 1967). USAC National Midget from 1961 to 1963 (39th in 1962). 1 USAC National Midget feature wins. STILL ALIVE

#149 FEV

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 22:32

Van Johnson died 19/07/1959 in Williams Grove, Pennsylvania during the traditional invitational USAC race (a.k.a. Indianapolis Sweepstakes). Was from Anaheim, California. USAC National Midget from 1956 to 1959 (48th 1956). 1 USAC National Midget feature wins.

Johnny Kay was from New Britain, Connecticut. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1952 to 1959 (5th 1952). 6 AAA National Midget feature wins. 5 ARDC feature wins. Confusion sometimes possible in sources with Californian Johnny KEY who raced Midgets in the early 50s.

Russ Klar was from Lynbrook in Long Island, NY. AAA/USAC National Midget from 1952 to 1957 (25th in 1953). 3 AAA National Midget feature wins. 20 ARDC feature wins. Also did the odd Sportscar race. Possibly also raced under the name “Don Taylor” in the 60s.

Ray Knepper was the elder brother to legendary Arnie and Steve Knepper. They were from Belleville, Illinois. Ray raced in AAA National Midget from 1948 to 1951. He was the 1947 Saint Louis Auto Racing Association Midget Champion.

Chuck Leighton : who he ??? Wild wild guess, but a Chuck Leighton was part of the famed “Memphis Belle” crew – knowing that so many American speedway drivers of the 1950s were soldiers during WWII (and a lot of them in the Air Force) who knows...

Mark Light well...

Ralph “Ralphie the Racer” Liguori was born 10/10/1926 in New York, NY.
Legendary Ralphie ! See Fines' post earlier in this thread. He too would be a great book subject !Was classified 15 times in the USAC National Midget between 1957 and 1998. Raced NASCAR Grand National (now Winston Cup) from 1952 to 1955 (19th in 1955).

Frankie Lueptow (not Luptow) was born 20/11/1905. Killed 21/09/1952 in Atlanta’s Lakewood Park Speedway, Georgia after flipping his Hudson Hornet. The same year, he had achieved great results with the car, including two victories in AAA 100-mile events at Milwaukee and Terre Haute. 1949/50/51 Dakota State Fair Speedway Sprint Car Champion. One of the IMCA greats. Unlucky in ChampCar as he could not start the four races he attended (all of them in 1952).
Member of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame since 1995. Member of the Michigan Motor Sport Hall of Fame since 1988.

George Lynch was born 20/06/1918. Died 6/05/1997 in Los Angeles, California.

Cy Marshall was born 17/04/1902. Died 20/12/1974. Four ChampCar (all at Indy) entries over a 22 year period (1928 to 1950). Severely injured during the 1930 Indy 500 race - his riding mechanic and brother Paul was killed in the accident.

Johnny Mauro was born 25/10/1911. Probably from the West Coast as he was one of Pike's Peak greats in the late 40s. Famous for his Italian racing cars (Ferraris and ALFAs). Still alive ?

Al Miller was from Roseville, Michigan. Maybe born in 1907. One source lists his DOD as 18/08/1967, another 28/07/1978. Raced at Indy from 1963 to 1967 (4th in 1965). USAC National Midget from 1959 to 1964 (45th in 1959). Great performance at Indy in 1965 at the wheel of Indianapolis Ford dealer Jerry Alderman’s Lotus 29. Member of the Michigan Motor Sport Hall of Fame since 1990 – list him as a deceased member.

Johnny Moorhouse (not Moorehouse as often listed) was born 3/02/1922. Died 30/12/1999. Was from Santa Ana, California. Retired from driving around 1969. USAC National Midget from 1957 to 1968 (13th in 1963). 11 USAC National Midget feature wins. 1953 United Racing Association Midget Champion.

Earl Motter was born 15/02/1919 in Fresno, California. Died 28/11/1992. USAC National Midget from 1956 to 1960 (20th in 1959). 3 USAC National Midget feature wins. Member of the BCRA Hall of Fame since 1990.

#150 Kuwashima

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Posted 22 March 2002 - 23:57

Richie,
Just off Indy drivers and back to F1 for 10 seconds, I just got an email from Ingo Hoffmann, who let us know his date of birth is 28/02/53 not 18/02/53.

And I think he should know :)

Cheers.